Alex And America. Hate It Or Love It?

[Almighty Colin]

Alex,

Last week I posted that you are anti-American. I would like to think that I was wrong earlier this week and that you are not anti-American, that there is not an anti-American agenda behind all those posts. After posting those comments however, I have read more people think the same thing as I and wonder why. I can see that many people are of the opinion that you hate America. It is easy to come to that impression after reading the full weight of all your posts over the years.

You're a nice guy. I've known you for many years. You're always very friendly in person. Maybe you could clarify this for everyone. I mean this in the most friendly way.

[cj]

I can see that many people are of the opinion that you hate America.

of these 'many people' colin, how many of them would be american?

the majority of american's don't like to hear how their country is viewed by outsiders unless its all perfect and rosy. for those of us who are not american, we see very clearly why you can't get the world to co-operate with you, and we have an entirely different view based on the different propaganda we've been fed over our lifetime.

Colin, you are one of the most intelligent and inspirational people I've come across and I find your posts insightful and thought provoking ... but when it comes to the discussions you've had with alex there's still a big chunk of arrogant american ego there that prevents you from accepting alex's opinion and analyzing it the way you do everything else.

You can't see it as black and white when your discussing the 'details' ...

for america
anti america

if you have an opinion different to america you are automatically anti american?

in many of the political discussions alex was called a moron for perfectly valid points ... and it was american's who were simply done with discussing the facts and instead resorted to 'moron' and 'your anti american'

I consider myself 'for america' ... because the big picture makes this the most beneficial position to be in. And because I think Sadam is a dumb fuck who should be dead already. Would you consider that because I don't agree with many of the "americanism's" you try to have us believe are fact that I am anti american?

I think its a shame that alex resorted to a lawyer to solve a discussion, but you carried on like such a bunch of meatheads he probably got sick of repeating himself and being called a moron for every non 'usa ass kissing comment'.

oops, now i've made a comment 'for alex' ... does that make me 'anti colin'?

[Almighty Colin]

CJ,

"American ego"? I think you misunderstand me. I don't think the US is the best country or the most moral or the most right but it is MY country and it is the best for me.

Criticism of American policy or it's admininistration is fine. I myself don't need to hear "rosy things" about America. I've read many thoughtful criticisms of many people on particular American policies both from within it's borders and from non-citizens. I am not at all naive or blind and very well understand the views of those that don't cooperate with the US and why. I even UNDERSTAND why some in the world celebrated when planes crashed into our twin towers on September 11, 2001. I understand the role of American hegemony in the Middle East and why so many people there are opposed to America's policies and the continual cycle it helps to perpetuate. I promise you there is no "American ego" here. You will have to excuse me though if I tire of someone continually thrashing my America the Beautiful, the land that *I* love. I understand these things but if one wants to bring it up over and over again, expect me to defend against it.

Any of the particular conversations Alex has brought up would be fine if isolated. In fact, many of his points are interesting to hear. However, it seems to me and to many others that he has a long-term pattern of pointing out "what is wrong with America". One is responsible for one's overall pattern of behavior and one should not be surprised if the totality of criticism of America, it's policies and it's people eventually leads some of us Americans to surmise that person is anti-American in principle.

Yeah, some people will be insulted if you continually bash their country or hate it - especially if you don't live there. As I stated earlier, I do not believe America to be the most right, the most moral, or above all others. However, she is mine and I am hers. Again, if one wants to continually attack her in a public forum, I will defend her in that public forum. It does eventually get tiresome to hear. What is someone's GOAL in what I see as continually taking jabs at America, it's citizens and it's policies?

I am very open to the fact that my interpretation is incorrect. I have been pondering this for days. I have been wondering whether I jumped to conclusions or was being unfair. Then yesterday, I read the comments of others who come to the same conclusions as I. I wondered why. "Might we all might be jumping the gun?", I thought. Maybe. Are we unfairly judging
Alex? Maybe. I started this thread to ask him to clarify that and clear up any misconceptions. I do mean it in the most friendly way. If he can clarify this for all those who think the same thing, he can. I will say that I know why I have thought what I do - he has this pattern of continually pointing out what is wrong with America. If he continues with the "what is wrong with America" posts, quotes, jabs, some of us Americans posting here will continue to be annoyed with it.

I am surprised that you said "American ego". I defend my country yet I don't attack his. I never have and I never will attack Canada, insult it's citizens, it's government, or it's way of life. On principle, I would not continually criticize Canadians, Australians, or Dutch especially if I shared time in a public forum with them.

"Anti-American". It's relative, isn't it? Alex is in Canada commenting on America and after a long time it has finally rubbed me the wrong way. I think we all understand why some black people feel it is ok to call another black person "nigger" but not ok for a white person to do it. Similar thing. A white person CAN call a black person "nigger" but expect to get your ass beaten and don't be surprised when it happens.

I meant what I said. "[Alex,]You're a nice guy. I've known you for many years. You're always very friendly in person. Maybe you could clarify this for everyone. I mean this in the most friendly way."



Last edited by Colin at Feb 27 2003, 08:01 AM

[Sword]

I think the whole "american ego" thing is a misinterpretation, probably due to the feelings the rest of the world has towards America because America is perceived to be the "#1" country in the world, in many ways. IE the most financially powerful and militarily, basically the only real superpower left in the modern world. True or not, that is how many around the world perceive America, and that makes America a target of a little jealousy/envy/desire to see it "knocked down a notch or two" etc.

It is much like when watching a sporting event, and the heavily favored team that is winning easily is considered arrogant and the audience kind of resents them and roots for the underdog. Are they really arrogant or is it other people's own insecurities or feelings that causes them to resent the winning team?

I see that in CJ's post. I don't see Colin having any "American Ego" at all. In fact I used to think he was a part of the "blame America first" crowd because of some of his other comments. I absolutely disagree that Colin has an "American Ego" or is not open minded and listening to both sides.

Instead, what I see, is an assumption of "american ego" because of people's underlying feelings resulting from percieving the USA as the top dog, the arrogant winning team, a basic (and probably subconscious) feeling of envy/resentment for anyone not a "part" of that winning team.

Now non-americans first reaction to that statement would probably be that it is just more "american ego". Well it isn't, it is the basic psychology of class envy or in this case country envy. I seriously doubt there is much more "america ego" than there is "australia ego" or "canada ego" or "isreal ego" or any other country. Most everyone is very proud of the country they live in, but because America is considered the "#1" country around the world by many, that same amount of pride in one's country is considered overly zealous "ego" and arrogance much the same as the winning team in sports is considered arrogant when they celebrate.

I think it has much more to do with the psychology of other's, than it does with American's behaviour. Yes Americans can certainly be arrogant, as can any countries residents. But most Americans will agree that this country is seriously fucked in MANY ways.

I'll certainly say that America is fucked up in MANY MANY ways. There is so much wrong in this country, that it staggers the mind at times. I have no problem saying that. That being said, I still think America is a great place to live!



Last edited by Sword at Feb 27 2003, 08:25 AM

[cj]

Originally posted by Colin@Feb 27 2003, 07:52 AM
You will have to excuse me though if I tire of someone continually thrashing my America the Beautiful, the land that *I* love. I understand these things but if one wants to bring it up over and over again, expect me to defend against it.

And here is where our view of the original situation differs. Your country isn't being thrashed ... it never has been by alex and the fact that you've interpreted it that way is disappointing. It certainly makes me less interested in bringing my opinions on this situation to this board - because you jump on every comment from a foreigner as anti american.

your nigger comparison was a good one. your saying we are a different race and therefore we have no right to say anything that isn't positive about your 'race'? plllft

Yeah, some people will be insulted if you continually bash their country or hate it - especially if you don't live there. As I stated earlier, I do not believe America to be the most right, the most moral, or above all others. However, she is mine and I am hers. Again, if one wants to continually attack her in a public forum, I will defend her in that public forum. It does eventually get tiresome to hear. What is someone's GOAL in what I see as continually taking jabs at America, it's citizens and it's policies?

taking jabs?!??!
the discussion was going along fine until it got personal. don't confuse the political discussion with the personal element that started to be evident when it 'got tiresome to hear'.

I am very open to the fact that my interpretation is incorrect. I have been pondering this for days. I have been wondering whether I jumped to conclusions or was being unfair. Then yesterday, I read the comments of others who come to the same conclusions as I.

How many of those who commented were american? you are validating your judgement using the american audience of oprano? LOL

I do mean it in the most friendly way. If he can clarify this for all those who think the same thing, he can. I will say that I know why I have thought what I do - he has this pattern of continually pointing out what is wrong with America. If he continues with the "what is wrong with America" posts, quotes, jabs, some of us Americans posting here will continue to be annoyed with it.

ha! take your tongue out of your cheek when you say 'friendly' because this was far from intended as a friendly chat about alex's opinions, especially with the last sentence which is basically an outline of what he isn't allowed to talk about or he might 'annoy' you. is this a new form of censorship? gang up on the minority to prevent them from being allowed to express an opinion?

I am surprised that you said "American ego". I defend my country yet I don't attack his. I never have and I never will attack Canada, insult it's citizens, it's government, or it's way of life. On principle, I would not continually criticize Canadians, Australians, or Dutch especially if I shared time in a public forum with them.

yeah right!! you've never made a 'blame canada' joke?!??!? i see more canada insults being thrown around on this board than american ones. but that's right, only a nigga can call a nigga a nigga.

"Anti-American". It's relative, isn't it? Alex is in Canada commenting on America and after a long time it has finally rubbed me the wrong way. I think we all understand why some black people feel it is ok to call another black person "nigger" but not ok for a white person to do it. Similar thing. A white person CAN call a black person "nigger" but expect to get your ass beaten and don't be surprised when it happens.

so non american's are only welcome here as long as we talk with the utmost respect for america at all times even when the country is blatantly behaving like a jerk, and even when you are insulting your own country ... until you feel like beating our asses? are you sure this is not just a case of getting your back up UNNECESSARILY?! uh huh

I doubt if alex will be back colin, especially not to justify himself to a mob that's ready to jump him if he gives any of his real opinions.
He wasn't the only one who noticed that he had NO chance of defending himself in any of the discussions.

[cj]

Sword, your post was so full of ego I don't think it needs a response ... do you really believe the rest of the world is jealous of you?

are you really that egotistical?

i already know the answer to that!

IE the most financially powerful and militarily, basically the only real superpower left in the modern world. True or not, that is how many around the world perceive America, and that makes America a target of a little jealousy/envy/desire to see it "knocked down a notch or two" etc.

the only real superpower left in the modern world?

*rolling eyes*

how can I possibly compete with cnn brain fog.

[Sharpie]

Oh, we are serious again this morning!

and I think that is part of what Alex points out. Often we are 'so very full of our selves that we beat our chests all the time. It then makes it humorous for a non american to point out things that are wrong, or hypicritical within our system. ..... and we all know there is plenty to find. That is the great thing about America.... we can fly our flag proudly, and talk about our short commings at the same time. Very often tounge - in- cheek.

Alex - anti- american - hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

Alex liking to make fun of us from time to time..... every chance he gets! We give him plenty of ammo.

Does this subject deserve a thread? I don't think so.

[Sword]

Damn CJ, breathe in and out a little.

Everything I said in my post, I prefaced with the word percieve. I did not say those things are facts of America, I said many percieve it that way. Go back and read it again, maybe it won't fly over your head the second time around.

It is one of the most basic aspects of human psychology for people to want to see the "top dog" as percieved, knocked down a few pegs. If you are trying to deny that most of the world views america as the most powerful country, then you are in extreme denial.

Never did I say I think america is some great perfect land that all should be jealous of. I stated a basic fact about the human psyche.



Last edited by Sword at Feb 27 2003, 10:06 AM

[Vick]

I have an American Ego and am proud of it and I am proud of America and proud to be an American, even with all the challenges we face
I believe that America is the finest country in the world, that's not to say any other people or country are beneath or not equal to America

It has been expressed better than I can how tired we are as American's of hearing our country bashed
We all saw celebrations in the street by other human beings over the death of Americans on 9/11

What I have never understood (even with Sword's analogy) is why other countries would not try to emulate America to some degree, to enjoy the basic freedoms and financial prosperity that America enjoys.
Is there any country we as American's have not helped when called upon?

America has open doors to the world, we are the great melting pot.
Millions of people immigrated to America during the last century in search of a better life. When and why did that change?
When did America go from being the place to find your dreams to being the country to denigrate?
American's are truly citizens of the world with people and aspects from every culture

And like all great Empires some day America will fall

[RawAlex]

Colin, let me just start out by saying that even the question you ask is so loaded as to not deserve a reply. "Hate it or love it" implies that either I am in or I am out. No abilty to love some of it, hate some of it, and feel nothing about most of it.

I don't have that black and white view of my own country, so why should I have it about yours?

Sorry, your question is yet again (as CJ pointed out) another dull attempt to get me to post up an opinion you don't like, so that you can attack the person, not the idea. That is what most world events / political / international discussions have come down to here, and honestly, it's dull as white toast no butter.

More importantly, I am saddened when I receive email from people who use to post "opposing" views that have stopped because they too have become tired of being the "whipping boy" (or is that "whipping person"?) for the mob.

Ideas are like children, inbreeding makes them dumber - the less people in the idea gene pool, the more likely you are to be discussing self-serving nonsense.

Alex

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 27 2003, 10:48 AM
Sorry, your question is yet again (as CJ pointed out) another dull attempt to get me to post up an opinion you don't like, so that you can attack the person, not the idea.

Let me repeat ,,,

You're a nice guy. I've known you for many years. You're always very friendly in person. Maybe you could clarify this for everyone. I mean this in the most friendly way.

I am very open to the fact that my interpretation is incorrect. I have been pondering this for days. I have been wondering whether I jumped to conclusions or was being unfair.

[RawAlex]

Colin, the answer to your question won't be found here... it is found by going back and carefully reading past discussions and looking at what was said... keep a little scorecard, and track how many times an idea is discussed, and how many times that the person posting the idea is instead attacked personally. Run your scorecard and then come back and report. If you are really truthful in your question, the answers are there in the pixels.

Alex

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by cj@Feb 27 2003, 09:09 AM
yeah right!! you've never made a 'blame canada' joke?!??!?

No, I have never made an anti-Canadian remark in my entire life nor would I. Why are you saying that? This board is searchable.

[spanno]

I am not anti-american I hate everyone!

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by cj@Feb 27 2003, 09:09 AM
your nigger comparison was a good one. your saying we are a different race and therefore we have no right to say anything that isn't positive about your 'race'? plllft

CJ,

It is a comparison in the sense of attempting to show that one situation is like another psychologically and socially. The comparison is between the feelings of critique from "out group" vs. "in group", not at all between race and country of citizenship. I am not at all comparing or equating race or religion or nationality or citizenship.

You are right. It is only Americans that are feeling this way. I don't think anyone from Kazakhstan is thinking the same thing for obvious reasons.

The whole point of the thread is:

1. I feel a certain way. I question that.
2. Others feels that way. Why?
3. There are reasons why we feel that way. Here are some I can think of and can gleen from reading the posts of others.
4. I may be wrong.
5. Let's have a dialogue and discuss that.

Alex can say "Yes, I hate America and here is the problem with America and fuck you".

He can say "Colin and others, I cannot at all understand why any of you Americans think I am 'anti-American'. I am confused as to why you might think that"

He can say "Colin and others, I think I know why you might think that and please let me clarify. You have only misunderstood me and it is a simpel misunderstanding.".

He can say "I don't care what you think. It's not important to me".

He can just ignore it and not discuss or feel that I am being dishonest in my thread. I'm telling you I am interested and have been thinking for a few days and have wondered if I have jumped to conclusions. I have been thinking about how to address that and maybe admit I was wrong. In the meantime, other people (ok, yes. Americans) have come to the same conclusions so that got me wondering back the other way.

I am honest in my intentions. You can hold that to me later and call me a liar if I am not. I am not attempting to set a trap or any such thing.

[Almighty Colin]

Another example. If I were to say "most women are stupid".

[which is NOT at ALL true FOR THE RECORD and anyone that later suggests this is not an example solely for demonstrating a point is not paying attention. Women ARE incredibly intelligent.]

a woman might feel insulted even if she is the brightest woman on the planet. In one sense, I didn't insult her. In another I did. One should understand that. She very well might feel that way and I should know that. She might respond in a not-so-kind way. I understand that too.

Why do many of us feel differently about a man saying "most women are bitches" than if a woman says "most women are bitches". If a man says "women are stupid" in front of Amanda, I am going to say something about it to them (right after they are separated, of course.)

[Again, so that there are no misunderstandings later. Women are awesome, beautiful, and intelligent].

I am not at all trying to stop anyone from saying anything. I am saying one should not be surprised at the reaction. If I make a sexist comment in front of a woman I expect that they might slug me. If someone makes anti-Canadian comments in front of a group of Canadians, they might expect the same. If someone makes a racist comment to a Native American they might stay the same.

I don't want anyone to be sensitive about anything. I'm not complaining. I'm only defending.

[PornoDoggy]

I'm racking my brain to remember the news footage of Canadians dancing in the streets to celebrate the attack on 9/11 and I just can't picture it.

CJ - you are nicer than I. When someone tries to explain international attitudes and dismiss international disagreements with sports team analogies and high school psychology, I tend to ignore them completely.

I've read Alex's posts. I disagree with some of what Alex says and agree with other things Alex says. Dismissing this war as "all about oil" is no more or less wrong than assuming France is resisting U.S. action only because of "oil and secret deals." Suggesting that the United States pay more attention to international opinion when one of the reasons it's using to justify this war is to "ensure the relevance of the United Nations" doesn't seem like a rabid antiAmerican sentiment to me. The gas-sucking SUV stuff is no less a gross oversimplification than suggesting that the war in Iraq will affect alQaida.

But Alex as "Anti-American"? Not IMHO, not by a long shot. Hell, I've been accused on the boards of being anti-American by some of the "Bobble Heads for Bush" and other "Liberals are Traitors" morons. Alex, I think you're being a little thin-skinned; you're taking some of this far too personally and far too seriously.

I may not like what he says. I may not agree with what he says. But I don't see the rabid antiAmerican sentiment that others seem to read into it.

[RawAlex]

Alex can say "Yes, I hate America and here is the problem with America and fuck you".

Colin, there's the rub: Your basic assumption (personal armor, as it were) is that if I find a problem with america, then I hate ALL of america.

That is the same as saying "I don't like eating liver, so I will be a vegan".

You are assuming that any time someone says something bad (and often very truthful) about America, that they are dissing the whole of america, that they want to kill americans, that america is bad.

VICK SAID:

It has been expressed better than I can how tired we are as American's of hearing our country bashed We all saw celebrations in the street by other human beings over the death of Americans on 9/11

This here is the problem - in a discussion of "do I like or hate america" the spectre of people (idiots, IMHO) dancing in the streets after 9/11 is brought up. In a very clear way, it is suggested that if I disagree with a policy of your government (or heck, the color of taxis in New York), that I must be on the other side, and the other side celebrated 9/11, and therefore I am an American bashing moron.

What choices do I have? Koolaid or death? Not very good choices.

Alex

[Mike AI]

I was going to post, but everyone knows that I have a HUGE American EGO!


USA USA USA USA !!!!


The sad fact is that most canadiens know the US is better in all ways, so they have a chip on their shoulder and make as many snide comments as they can squeeze in.

Its like being the incapable older brother who did ok in school, did not have many friends, the the US comes along, as the younger brother - does great in school, has all kinds of friends, plays all the sports, goes on to college on a scholarship and becomes a successful and powerful CEO - who has to end up helping his incapable older brother for ever....

Of course their is going to be animosity..... but hey, its ok, we still love Alex, and Canada!!

[Mike AI]

Hey here is one of our incapable older brothers ( err I mean Canadians) speaking now

http://cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/26/bastards030226

[spanno]

I don't trust americans they are too tall

[Vick]

Gentlemen I am being taken a little of out context here
in no way did I equate the news footage of dancing in the streets to celebrate the attack on 9/11 with Canadians
I did give the example of the celebration of the deaths of Americans as an extreme example of American bashing

Beyond that I am guilty of Canadian bashing, I did it just the other day to the extent of if Canadians don't like what the US is going to do they should stay out of our business and do the things they do well

Further I have had the pleasure of meeting Raw Alex in person on a few occasions. Alex, in person is very bright, intelligent, personable and a good conversationalist (in addition to knowing the where the best bars are)

However over the past few years (and I will say it is lesser now as Alex often tempers his statements to include the Western Hemisphere) Alex has perhaps come across with sentiments that could be seen as questioning America and the frequency and perhaps intent of these statements could be seen as somewhat anti-american

As for ideas and concepts discussed here, maybe it is Darwinism and the weak ideas and concepts die out. If an idea or concept is strong enough when presented to intelligent minds even of opposition the idea would be received/stand on it's own merits

[RawAlex]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Feb 27 2003, 12:21 PM
Hey here is one of our incapable older brothers ( err I mean Canadians) speaking now

http://cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/26/bastards030226

Mike, should I then touch on Rev Falwell refering to one of the teletubbies as "gay"? Or suggesting that the actions of a past president lead to an "epidemic of orl sex in our highschools"?

One person don't make a country... no matter how wide the brush you want to use.



Alex

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 27 2003, 12:07 PM
This here is the problem - in a discussion of "do I like or hate america" the spectre of people (idiots, IMHO) dancing in the streets after 9/11 is brought up. In a very clear way, it is suggested that if I disagree with a policy of your government (or heck, the color of taxis in New York), that I must be on the other side, and the other side celebrated 9/11, and therefore I am an American bashing moron.

Alex,

That is CLEAR? Shouldn't be because it was not my intention. From my point of view (as the writer), the comment was meant in response to CJ's post and not in reference to anything you have said. I was defending myself against what CJ termed my "arrogant american ego".

The examples were meant to show that I do understand these things. The dancing in the streets comment referred to Arabs living in the West Bank that celebrated in the streets the events of 9/11. I understand why they felt that way. Not people dancing in Canada. Huh, PornoDoggy?

=======

Separately, my perception has been that your posts, your choice of articles to link to and your use of language over the years leads you to criticize America first and ask questions later. That
it is more important for you to point out what is wrong about America and how it isn't what it claims to be than anything else.

Am I wrong? What do you really think? Again, as stated above, I may be wrong. I am open to that.

A separate question. Why have others (Americans as Cj has pointed out) come to the same conclusion. Are we all stupid? Have you not been careful in your words? Are we oversensitive? Are we right?

That's what I am asking. Whether you choose to answer or not is your business.

[JR]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Feb 27 2003, 09:21 AM
Hey here is one of our incapable older brothers ( err I mean Canadians) speaking now

http://cbc.ca/stories/2003/02/26/bastards030226

thats pretty comical.

she said:
"Damn Americans … I hate those bastards."

then she said:
her comments "do not reflect her opinion of the American people."

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Feb 27 2003, 12:20 PM
hey, its ok, we still love Alex, and Canada!!

Yes, same here. For all the craziness the past week, I stick to how I started this post:

"[Alex,] You're a nice guy. I've known you for many years. You're always very friendly in person. Maybe you could clarify this for everyone. I mean this in the most friendly way. "

I do mean that.

And CJ, Jesus. I could say nice things about her until the end of time. I'll just save this space because she has heard them all from me before.

I have never and never will say anything bad about Canada nor Australia.

[RawAlex]

As for ideas and concepts discussed here, maybe it is Darwinism and the weak ideas and concepts die out. If an idea or concept is strong enough when presented to intelligent minds even of opposition the idea would be received/stand on it's own merits

No Vick, I have to disagree - it isn't strong idea / weak idea - but rather us / them at work. As mentioned, too many of the discussions sink to "your a moron" or "your on drugs" rather than discussing the idea. The presenter of the idea is belittled, not the idea.

That's why I won't discuss it or go into details - every word I use is being used as proof that I am a moron, not that my ideas are good or bad. That is very sad indeed... you know, sooner or later, everyone will have the same opinion... because anyone with a different opinion will do what I (and many before me) have done... stop talking about it.

Colin, how's that scorecard coming on past discussions? Any news to report?

Alex

[Mike AI]

Actually Alex, I do not know one Canadian who is supporting the US in the war against Iraq ( MUTT) .... not that I know many of them, just the ones in the business....

Oh and Vick I agree with you, Alex is a great guy.... one of the real sincere people in this industry.

[Almighty Colin]

Re: Saddam Hussein interview last night. He was more respectful of the United States and American leadship than many leaders of other countries. A world-class politician; despite what is obvious. No one should ever understimate his intelligence.

"Mr. Bush"

[Vick]

Alex by that logic could we say minds with interesting, bright ideas and concepts can and will be beaten down by minds that have to sink to to "your a moron" or "your on drugs" rather than discussing/debating the idea?

he he he Sorry I couldn't resist :P

[Peaches]

Originally posted by spanno@Feb 27 2003, 01:25 PM
I don't trust americans they are too tall

Not me!!

[PornoDoggy]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Feb 27 2003, 12:20 PM
I was going to post, but everyone knows that I have a HUGE American EGO!


USA USA USA USA !!!!


The sad fact is that most canadiens know the US is better in all ways, so they have a chip on their shoulder and make as many snide comments as they can squeeze in.

Its like being the incapable older brother who did ok in school, did not have many friends, the the US comes along, as the younger brother - does great in school, has all kinds of friends, plays all the sports, goes on to college on a scholarship and becomes a successful and powerful CEO - who has to end up helping his incapable older brother for ever....

Of course their is going to be animosity..... but hey, its ok, we still love Alex, and Canada!!

What I said earlier about amateur psychology stands. I don't think Alex is reacting out of some international sibling rivalry in any way, shape or form. I understand that trivializing it as such has a certain appeal to those adverse to thinking, or who require a "least common denominator" in order to grasp something; but that doesn't make it anything remotely resembling a valid theory to be given a moment's thought by a thinking person.

Look - there are a great many AMERICANS who feel as Alex does. There are a great many AMERICANS who worry that Bush Administration ties to the oil industry are in part motivating them toward this war. There are a great many AMERICANS who find the Bush Administration attempts to link Iraq to AlQaida shallow at best. There are a great many AMERICANS who find Bush Administration claims of concern for the credibilty of the United Nations more of a stretch than can be made with comfort. There are a great many AMERICANS who find the heavy-handed conduct of foreign policy the Bush Adminstration to be absurd, ill-advised, and counterproductive in the long run.

Hell's bells, I've got some concerns about all of the above, and I'm for this fucking war!!! So Alex, don't take all of the charges of "anitAmericanism" too seriously. Some of them are actually pretty funny.

[Almighty Colin]

Alex, it would be a lot easier for you to just explain how you really feel than for me to sort through your 516 posts and then for us to have all the same arguments about them once again with more name-calling and threats and threatened lawsuits. You are being curiously evasive regarding my question as to your thoughts.

------------------------- I repeat:

"My perception has been that your posts, your choice of articles to link to and your use of language over the years leads you to criticize America first and ask questions later. That
it is more important for you to point out what is wrong about America and how it isn't what it claims to be than anything else.

Am I wrong? What do you really think? Again, as stated above, I may be wrong. I am open to that.

A separate question. Why have others (Americans as Cj has pointed out) come to the same conclusion. Are we all stupid? Have you not been careful in your words? Are we oversensitive? Are we right?

That's what I am asking. Whether you choose to answer or not is your business."

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Feb 27 2003, 01:04 PM
What I said earlier about amateur psychology stands. I don't think Alex is reacting out of some international sibling rivalry in any way, shape or form.

Why do YOU think Alex is reacting in "such a way", PD?

[RawAlex]

Colin, let me give you a hint that will help you on your quest...

Try to seperate these two things:

"Dislikes of america"

"Dislikes of some american policies / procedures"

Your assumption (and that of many of your fellow Americans) is that anyone who disagrees with your commander in chief is bashing America. Anyone who points out some of contridictions that the American Constitution brings is anti-american. Most importantly, anyone who doesn't think the American system is the best ever is ant-American.

Things are rarely all or nothing... attempting to find a yes no answer isn't going to work out.

Alex

Oh yeah, just because you ask, do you realize that almost all of the articles and links I post come from american publications, american websites, written by american people? Most of them came from CNN, Drudge, foxnews, etc... The questions come from within, not from the outside.

[RawAlex]

Originally posted by Mike AI@Feb 27 2003, 12:45 PM
Actually Alex, I do not know one Canadian who is supporting the US in the war against Iraq ( MUTT) .... not that I know many of them, just the ones in the business....

Oh and Vick I agree with you, Alex is a great guy.... one of the real sincere people in this industry.

Mike, I have stated before, and I will state again: Saddam needs to go.

Needs to go today, unilaterally, without the support of the UN is a seperate issue. When the time is right, the support for a war on Iraq is there.

Alex

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Feb 27 2003, 01:32 PM
[You think] anyone who doesn't think the American system is the best ever is ant-American.

Here we go again. You not only read between the lines, you insert paragraphs between the simple sentences.

I said earlier today in this same thread:

"I don't think the US is the best country or the most moral or the most right but it is MY country and it is the best for me."




Last edited by Colin at Feb 27 2003, 01:40 PM

[Mike AI]

Please Alex, the UN is history....

They are interfering with OUR National Soverignty. Last I checked the leader of the UN does not take an oath to protect the citizens of the US, he does not take an oath to support and defend the Constitution.

Only BUSH has taken this Oath!

Any American who trusts and relies upon the UN to look after OUR best interst is truly delisional!!

The democrats here in the US are only pushing the UN to try and hurt Bush, to counteract Bush. The democrats know what the UN is all about....

Fuck the UN. We need to withdraw and boot them from NY - they are wasting too much valuable real estate!

[Almighty Colin]

Quote:

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Feb 27 2003, 01:04 PM-->

Thread Tools

Show Printable Version

Email this Page

Display Modes

Linear Mode

Switch to Hybrid Mode

Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is On

Forum Jump User Control Panel Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Main Board Rebooted The Business Of Porn - Closed For Posting     Legacy Archived Main Board     Vesuvio

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:53 PM..