Anyone watching C-span right now?

[Red]

They are covering the big anti war rally in D.C. Ramsey Clark is speaking right now. I feel like I'm in a time warp, except that the cops and national guard aren't beating up the protesters.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Red

They are covering the big anti war rally in D.C. Ramsey Clark is speaking right now. I feel like I'm in a time warp, except that the cops and national guard aren't beating up the protesters.

Yep, they've had all the fun taken out of their jobs...

[PornoDoggy]

A Ramsey Clark speech is like a flashback ...

I feel so left out - I agree with the theme of tomorrow's "pro-war" protest ("Cindy Doesn't Speak For Me"), but feel sorry for morons who lack the mental capacity to comprehend that you can support the troops without supporting the lying cocksuckers who sent them there.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

A Ramsey Clark speech is like a flashback ...

I feel so left out - I agree with the theme of tomorrow's "pro-war" protest ("Cindy Doesn't Speak For Me"), but feel sorry for morons who lack the mental capacity to comprehend that you can support the troops without supporting the lying cocksuckers who sent them there.

The lesson learned from Vietnam - that one can support the troops without supporting the government - hasn't reached a lot of people. When the troops came back from Vietnam, they were spat up and called "baby killers."

Times are different now. The public has to learn that soldiers go where they're ordered to go and do what they're ordered to do. The ones giving the orders are the ones who bear the responsibility.

Not to mention the ones who voted in the ones who give the orders.

[PornoDoggy]

I sincerely hope that the Iraqi democracy we are building lasts longer than peace with honor did.

I'm not terribly optomistic.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

I sincerely hope that the Iraqi democracy we are building lasts longer than peace with honor did.

I'm not terribly optomistic.

It won't. We're attempting to "work with" people we don't understand. I doubt you could find many average Americans who could explain to you what the difference between a Sunni or a Shiite (sp) Muslim is...or where the Kurds come in. I know I don't know what any of it means, much less understand why the differences are worth blowing up children over.

Attempting to apply a new form of government to a millenias old problem isn't going to work.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

It won't. We're attempting to "work with" people we don't understand. I doubt you could find many average Americans who could explain to you what the difference between a Sunni or a Shiite (sp) Muslim is...or where the Kurds come in. I know I don't know what any of it means, much less understand why the differences are worth blowing up children over.

Attempting to apply a new form of government to a millenias old problem isn't going to work.

Maybe we're just hoping for personal gain over faith to take effect, it's worked in every other religion, all of them were just as extreme back in the day.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Trev

Maybe we're just hoping for personal gain over faith to take effect, it's worked in every other religion, all of them were just as extreme back in the day.

That's a good point. A lot of "severe" religions folded under the weight of potential profit. But...these religions didn't have a tendency to strap bombs to *themselves* to kill others. They took the direct route in killing their enemies.

Until we either learn or acknowledge the headset of these "true believers," we're not going to be successful. It's nearly impossible to fight an enemy who doesn't give a damn whether he lives or dies, or in some of these cases, prefers death.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

That's a good point. A lot of "severe" religions folded under the weight of potential profit. But...these religions didn't have a tendency to strap bombs to *themselves* to kill others. They took the direct route in killing their enemies.

Until we either learn or acknowledge the headset of these "true believers," we're not going to be successful. It's nearly impossible to fight an enemy who doesn't give a damn whether he lives or dies, or in some of these cases, prefers death.

An excellent point, however, if we could send strap to your chest bombs back in time then history would be different altogether, Caths and Prodies have been bombing and killing eachother for all of my life time. Blowing up malls at Christmas time - pubs and bars - hotels!

The IRA, UDA and many more, make me think we're the stupid ones!

Try living in Northern Ireland being a Brit back in 79....

[Trev]

I need to add: A Catholic Brit.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Trev

An excellent point, however, if we could send strap to your chest bombs back in time then history would be different altogether, Caths and Prodies have been bombing and killing eachother for all of my life time. Blowing up malls at Christmas time - pubs and bars - hotels!

The IRA, UDA and many more, make me think we're the stupid ones!

Try living in Northern Ireland being a Brit back in 79....

Point taken.
But...the Catholics would be prohibited from doing that by church doctrine, and I think the Protestants also would frown on it heavily. A Catholic suicide can't have a church funeral or be buried in the church cemetary. (I think they use the nearest dumpster.) The Protestants aren't happy with suicide but they're not as severe as the Catholics.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

Point taken.
But...the Catholics would be prohibited from doing that by church doctrine, and I think the Protestants also would frown on it heavily. A Catholic suicide can't have a church funeral or be buried in the church cemetary. (I think they use the nearest dumpster.) The Protestants aren't happy with suicide but they're not as severe as the Catholics.

That's my point - there are no Catholic extremists - no Prodie extremists - Muslim extremists - They're all terrorists, anyone using as faith as the cause is!! Faith doesn't factor into it anymore, except the muslims get 72 virgins in heaven!


I think JR hit the nail on the head when he said "shoot them in the face", I might have quoted that off a little but it's spot on.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Trev

I need to add: A Catholic Brit.

Fucking catho bastard!

;-)))






Which was exactly how dumb it was....best friends coming to blows or more over a religions which neither really cared about , but it was centuries of not so much religious differences but socio economic reasons that laid the seed.

ie .Protestants had/have more money and more land and an disproportionate amopunt of "control"

Hence why a great deal of American's of Irish Descent are catholics , whereas a lot of Canadian Irish are of Protestant descent.

American Irish were starving and left seeking life...not freedom...life an escape from starvation, and Canadian Irish were the younger sons trying to expand there land holdings or impress the family.(((not a lot of people know that;-))))

Now don't get me on a rant..

[Nickatilynx]

and ummm in the late 80s I know New England Irish were still raising money for the IRA...or terrorists, as are the UDA.

All extremeists should be taken out and shot. ;-))

[Trev]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

and ummm in the late 80s I know New England Irish were still raising money for the IRA...or terrorists, as are the UDA.

All extremeists should be taken out and shot. ;-))

I couldn't agree more!

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

and ummm in the late 80s I know New England Irish were still raising money for the IRA...or terrorists, as are the UDA.

All extremeists should be taken out and shot. ;-))

I'm from a New England Irish Catholic family.

And yes, all extremists should be taken out and shot...twice.

[PornoDoggy]

Who gets to decide who's an extremist?

[Trev]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Who gets to decide who's an extremist?

Not you, not until the revolution anyway.

[PornoDoggy]

Originally Posted by Trev

Not you, not until the revolution anyway.

Smartasses will have a special re-education camp set up just for them, you know ...

Seriously - who gets to decide who is an extremist?

At various times, advocates of the ten hour work day, advocates of excluding anyone under the age of twelve in the workforce, or advocates of allowing those with a vagina the right to own property and vote were considered extremists.

Even the success of advocates of non-violence like Ghandi and King was due as much to the threat of violence those movements attempted to defuse.

Stalin was very effective at dealing with extremists; Hitler was probably equally efficient. Works good in theory - but it's a pretty slippery slope.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

Smartasses will have a special re-education camp set up just for them, you know ...

Seriously - who gets to decide who is an extremist?

At various times, advocates of the ten hour work day, advocates of excluding anyone under the age of twelve in the workforce, or advocates of allowing those with a vagina the right to own property and vote were considered extremists.

Even the success of advocates of non-violence like Ghandi and King was due as much to the threat of violence those movements attempted to defuse.

Stalin was very effective at dealing with extremists; Hitler was probably equally efficient. Works good in theory - but it's a pretty slippery slope.

It's a hellishly slippery slope, one that no one with any brains is ever going to go near. (Which always lets out the government, whatever government it happens to be.)

Remarks like "shooting all extremists" will remain just that...remarks.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

Remarks like "shooting all extremists" will remain just that...remarks.

That's correct but only when talking as a non-extremist, there are always cases of the "other" extremists shooting the "opposite" extremists..

IRA, UDA, BMP, BMF, NF, KKK, ... are few extremists just off the top of my head.

Notice only one is from the US, I know there's shit loads more but the first 5 are Geo targeted.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Trev

That's correct but only when talking as a non-extremist, there are always cases of the "other" extremists shooting the "opposite" extremists..

IRA, UDA, BMP, BMF, NF, KKK, ... are few extremists just off the top of my head.

Notice only one is from the US, I know there's shit loads more but the first 5 are Geo targeted.

We have lots of little organizations along the same line as the KKK. White supremecists, neo-Nazis, the like. Plus their black equivelents. I'm sure that somewhere there are filing cabinets full of stuff that would make the rest of us ill.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

We have lots of little organizations along the same line as the KKK. White supremecists, neo-Nazis, the like. Plus their black equivelents. I'm sure that somewhere there are filing cabinets full of stuff that would make the rest of us ill.

Would you be surprised if the first 4 on my list where active political parties here in the UK?

Do the KKK have an office in Washington?


We're far to lax here in the UK!

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Trev

Would you be surprised if the first 4 on my list where active political parties here in the UK?

Do the KKK have an office in Washington?


We're far to lax here in the UK!

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did. They can hire lobbyists just like everyone else.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

I wouldn't be at all surprised if they did. They can hire lobbyists just like everyone else.

It's not like the US here, these are registered political parties.

They have as much chance as the next party that their leader will be Prime Minister one day! Not a lobbyist - more an extremist that's learned how to play the game.