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'At the time, the Blue Blazes band was playing the composition by Franz Joseph Haydn that eventually became known as ”Deutschland Uber Alles.” Grissom said it was part of a show entitled “Visions of World War Two,” in which the flags and music were intended to represent the warring nations.'
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Originally posted by sharky@Sep 30 2003, 04:59 PM If it were a kid wearing a nazi shirt he would be kicked out of school. instead using "art" as the pretense the school supported it.
fuck em!
What's the whole story? Did the school intend to make a pro-Nazi statement or was it just one of many flags of the nations involved in WW II?
I'm sure many high school history textbooks have pictures of Nazi flags in there. Should we ban them?
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Now, Grisson said the show will only include the American flag. “The kids and myself, we caused a reaction, and we certainly didn’t mean to,” he told the Morning News. “We’ll use it as a learning situation.”
um, so we were the only ones involved in WWII now? I guess history will just continue to be sanitized and made more PC....it will be interesteing to see what my grandchildren will get as far as hostory lessons....
I agree maybe there was poor timing or poor communication, but if the show was to represent WWII why wasn't it allowed to include the flag of one of our greatest foes? Maybe we should change the repsentation of the Nazi flag to one with a big yellow smiley face on it? Awwww, the smiley face will make the children smile and think happy thoughts.....so adorable
Originally posted by Toolz@Oct 1 2003, 07:28 AM Don't kid yourself Chris, you're next and George's coming up himself to stand on the top of the CN Tower and proclaim Canada his
God likes us ... a gust of wind would knock him off.
Originally posted by Gabriel@Oct 1 2003, 08:31 AM The American civil war was history, should we take offense to that as well?
Are people not allowed to fly the Stars and Bars?
Should we strip the rankings of General Robert E. Lee?
Yeah the timing was probably off but you can't run away from history.
why not have a high school parade with kids dressed up as KKK members carrying burning crosses and chanting "all niggers must die". nothing wrong with that... as you said, "you can't run away from history" Following "kill a nigger" week at the local Junior High, they can move right into "shoot an indian day" and "bitch get in there and cook me some grub and my clothes better be clean" day.
there has to be boundaries somewhere. God forbid, we actually let the system work and the people decide where they are. getting booed, screamed at and having stuff thrown at them, by an angry audience may be a first clue as to the innapropriateness of what happened. since we were not there, i think i would give that little bit of evidence a little more weight than others seem to.
Originally posted by Colin@Sep 30 2003, 04:59 PM Hmm, seems like reasonable use to me.
'At the time, the Blue Blazes band was playing the composition by Franz Joseph Haydn that eventually became known as ”Deutschland Uber Alles.” Grissom said it was part of a show entitled “Visions of World War Two,” in which the flags and music were intended to represent the warring nations.'
d i t t o!
yeah,
let's bring the political correctness in arts, history, etc...
if you don't show nazi's flags,
they will just disapear, right?
Originally posted by JR@Oct 2 2003, 02:22 AM God forbid, we actually let the system work and the people decide where they are. getting booed, screamed at and having stuff thrown at them, by an angry audience may be a first clue as to the innapropriateness of what happened. since we were not there, i think i would give that little bit of evidence a little more weight than others seem to.
ahhhh...the judgement of the mob!
JR, this is the SAME mob who was burning books in 1940 Germany!
i was saying that i was not there and that the reaction of the crowd was a good indication that there is more to this story and the visuals, than the mere text of an article conveys.
ahhh...reaction of the crowd.
ask your better half and she'll tell you the story of the Russian lawyer Plevako who defended the woman begger who was deformed and killed a child.
He got her off the hook by...using the reaction of the crowd
;-)))
if she doesn't know the story,
LMK and I'll post it
;-)
there is a big difference in proving "the crowd can possibly be wrong" and me saying "the majority of people, as a general rule, are usually more correct than not"
I dont doubt that you can point out some obscure case in Northern Siberia to show where a crowd acted/reacted incorrectly.
all i said was that i would suggest the reaction of the people there, suggests there is more to this story. nothing more. i did not mean to offend any Nazis either.
Originally posted by JR@Oct 2 2003, 03:52 AM there is a big difference in proving "the crowd can possibly be wrong" and me saying "the majority of people, as a general rule, are usually more correct than not"
I dont doubt that you can point out some obscure case in Northern Siberia to show where a crowd acted/reacted incorrectly.
all i said was that i would suggest the reaction of the people there, suggests there is more to this story. nothing more. i did not mean to offend any Nazis either.
aparently your wife doesn't know the story and you are to arrogant to ask me...
your loss....
;-))))
ahhh..Nothern Siberia.
Guess, did OVERWHELMING majority of Germans support Hitler or not?
Guess, did OVERWHELMING majority of Russians support Stalin or not?
your "crowd reaction" argument doesn't hold waters....
and i did not mean to offend any arrogant and poor educated people either
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Oct 2 2003, 02:04 AM
Guess, did OVERWHELMING majority of Germans support Hitler or not?
Guess, did OVERWHELMING majority of Russians support Stalin or not?
I dont know that its fair to say that the "the overwhelming majority" of Germans or Russians supported Stalin or Hitler. I once had a cleaning lady that loved and defended Stalin, but i think we both know that Khrushchev's first order of business were to enact policies to distance the Communist Party from the legacy of Stalin.
People in general, supported what they believed in, based on the information they had or were given.
how does that equate to the good folk of Paris Texas and their apparent dissaproval of a parade of high school kids flying a Nazi flag on a Jewish holiday? Are they being brainwashed by the Nazi propaganda machine? are they being forced to read "Pravda" as their only new source about the world and life? or can the be possibly expected to make a more educated and balanced decision than the average 1938 Soviet Citizen could comment on farmers in the Ukraine?
Just out of curiosity, are you accusing the people of Paris Texas of plotting to invade and annex Mexico? i dont follow the connection between Stalin and a high school function.
My family is from Paris Texas, so i am probably biased. seems like a nice place. my grandfathers girlfriend is also from there. she was on Americas Most Wanted once for allegedly shooting her past husband.
Originally posted by Colin@Oct 2 2003, 08:06 AM In response to this, my father said " I was opposed to making Texas a state then and I'm opposed now." ;-)
Originally posted by JR@Oct 1 2003, 11:22 PM why not have a high school parade with kids dressed up as KKK members carrying burning crosses and chanting "all niggers must die". nothing wrong with that... as you said, "you can't run away from history" Following "kill a nigger" week at the local Junior High, they can move right into "shoot an indian day" and "bitch get in there and cook me some grub and my clothes better be clean" day.
I see you've got some issues with MLK day, Thanksgiving and Mothers Day, JR
Free speech is a bitch, isn't it? Seems to me it worked in this case.
There was a KKK rally here a few years ago and 5000 people showed up to shout them down. In my mind that's stupid. Just gave them more media coverage. If 10 people showed up it wouldn't have been as big a deal as it was. Probably helped the KKK more than it hurt them. Probably rallied the nutjobs more than anything. The KKK has free speech rights but I also have the freedom not to listen to them. Pretty simple actually.
Originally posted by Colin@Oct 2 2003, 12:51 PM So if a teacher wants to display the flags of World War II, should they exclude the Nazi flag? *gasp*
Why not the Japanese flag? Maybe in Germany they shouldn't show the US flag in their version?
Maybe the teacher should only have "Visions of World War II" on certain days of the year. Days that won't be offensive to anyone.
Now they're only showing the American flag. Reminds me of that South Park episode where they get rid of everything associated with Christmas.
Why not make the whole world blind?
Ummm ... no offense, Colin, but that's bullshit.
There is a significant difference between a teacher showing the flags of the powers that fought in WWII in a classroom and a halftime display involving a Nazi flag on the football field - particularly on a Jewish holiday.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Oct 2 2003, 01:30 PM There is a significant difference between a teacher showing the flags of the powers that fought in WWII in a classroom and a halftime display involving a Nazi flag on the football field - particularly on a Jewish holiday.
It's not like they were just showing a Nazi flag. Context.
"Grissom said it was part of a show entitled “Visions of World War Two,” in which the flags and music were intended to represent the warring nations."
"The show included the flags of other nations fighting in World War II, such as France, Britain, the United States and Japan. The flags were waved twice as a musical selection from each country was played."
The show also includes the flags and music of France, Britain, Japan and the United States. The flags were raised in intervals that corresponded with the music of the nations. An announcement over loudspeakers before the performance explained the school was trying to do a "historical, accurate depiction of the event."
------------
"Now, Grisson said the show will only include the American flag. "
Last edited by Colin at Oct 2 2003, 01:40 PM
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Now, I just have a public school education, but it seems to me that the Nazi flag may carry a bit more baggage than the Japanese or Italian flgs might. To my knowledge there aren't any currently active hate groups who proudly display the "Rising Sun" or Italian flags as a symbol of their views.
It was an absolutely STUPID selection for use at the halftime show of a high school football game.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Oct 2 2003, 01:50 PM Now, I just have a public school education, but it seems to me that the Nazi flag may carry a bit more baggage than the Japanese or Italian flgs might. To my knowledge there aren't any currently active hate groups who proudly display the "Rising Sun" or Italian flags as a symbol of their views.
It was an absolutely STUPID selection for use at the halftime show of a high school football game.
Do you think they should not EVER do a "Flags of World War II" show at a football game or just on days that aren't jewish holidays?
Last edited by Colin at Oct 2 2003, 01:56 PM
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Hmm, I've got a public school education too PD - but I still don't see the reason for the uproar.
I would agree the timing could have been more politically correct but at the end of the day, whats done is done.
To ignore significant parts of history is incomprehensible to me.
Being from the South, there are lots of people still flying the Rebel flag, all over the place. I have a lot of friends who could choose to be offended but instead choose to care less...
Hmmm, if they had the Allied flags 'attack' the Axis flags in this show, and beat them all into the ground, would that have been more acceptable to those that took offense?
Originally posted by *KK*@Oct 2 2003, 02:08 PM Hmmm, if they had the Allied flags 'attack' the Axis flags in this show, and beat them all into the ground, would that have been more acceptable to those that took offense?
That would have been pretty cool! In the end, a fat boy with an american flag could jump on a skinny kid carrying a Japanese flag. THE END!
Last edited by Colin at Oct 2 2003, 02:50 PM
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Maybe we could do a halftime show commemorating the VietNam war, complete with a couple of VC flags being waved and some "hippies" burning the American flag?
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09-30-2003
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