Who Voted for Bush?

[OldJeff]

fair.org is a really funny name for that website

I did however bookmark it - seems like a good place to get the viewpoint of the extreme left

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Apr 1 2003, 09:35 AM
I remember Colin's little X/Y po;litical chart being something like +5 -1, or so... fairly strongly on the conservative side of things.

Economic Left/Right: 2.25
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -4.87

Only in the wide,wide whacky world of Alex would this be considered "fairly strongly on the conservative side of things".

Rush Limbaugh would consider me to be a borderline communist and definitely a lefty pinko.



Last edited by Colin at Apr 1 2003, 10:11 AM

[Almighty Colin]

Alex,

What do you get for this one?

http://www.3pc.net/matchmaker/quiz.html

Me.

1) Libertarian Party 89%
2) Constitution Party 56%
3) Natural Law Party 44%
4) Green Party 44%
5) Reform Party 44%
6) Democratic Party 33%
7) Republican Party 33%

[Almighty Colin]

NM, Alex. That test will give you different results because you have a different reference point.

Canadia v. US

I guess this is how we missunderstand each other Alex. as i read things, you were clear in your dislike of Rush Limbaugh.

it seemed to be clear to me that you were trying to make a general point that your opinion about Rush Limbaugh is more valid than that of Colins because you dont like Rush Limbaugh. That logic as it is, makes some sense. - i.e. saying that Colin is biased in that he is more likely to agree. .. but this also assumes that you dont have any opinion of Rush Limbaugh whereas Colin does and thus you see things with more clarity. That would make sense if that was the case. Because that would mean you did not have a biased opinion. Furthermore, it would have to assume that you are not in anyway biased against Republicans and Conservatives... which is also not the case.

a big point Alex is that you had an opinion about the politics of Rush Limbaugh before you ever listened to Rush Limbaugh.

there is another dimension which also factors in to your opinion about Rush Limbaugh... the fact that you clearly, really dont like him. You are BIASED AGAINST Rush Limbaugh and you are also biased against Conservative politics... in the exact same way you say Colin is biased for him because he may "probably" agree with him.

You use what seems to me to be some pretty flawed logic to make a point that your opinion is more valid than Colins. (thats the way i understood what you posted)

you said exactly:

The difference is that you probably agree with much of what Rush has to say, so you don't see the dishonestly.

You are VERY likely to agree with alot of what Rush has to say... he is playing to your preferences...

in your post, you were attempting to say that Colins "probable" bias gives you a more balanced opinion. .. but that assumes you have no bias at all.

i am saying that if you have a biased opinion - its exactly that. nothing more, nothing less. it is hard to make the case that one biased opinion is more valid than another biased opinion.



Last edited by -= JR =- at Apr 1 2003, 10:26 AM

[Almighty Colin]

I'd say my opinion on Rush Limbaugh is pretty close to Alex's.

Since i'm right of Alex there would tend to be more overlap though I'm not sure why that is pertinent in light of the clear evidence above that Alex THINKS just like Rush Limbaugh.

[Vick]

Just for grins

1) Libertarian Party 73%
2) Constitution Party 64%
3) Republican Party 50%
4) Natural Law Party 41%
5) Reform Party 36%
6) Democratic Party 32%
7) Green Party 27%

[RawAlex]

JR, you are so wrong. I had no opinion of Rush until I listened. I had heard all sorts of things, that he was the savior, that he was hot, that he spoke what the people wanted to hear, that he was rooting out the corruption and stupidity in Washington...

I was shocked listening to him. I am not American, and I know enough about the last 10 years of American history to poke holes in almost everything he was saying. He wasn't rooting out anything except votes for his team.

After 2 weeks of him, I learned that there was nothing going on here except massively partisan crap, dressed up as investigative reporting. I am not biased against his politics, I am biased against his careful framing of facts to mislead people.

Based on the results of the test that Colin so carefully charted a couple of months ago, he is much more likely to be in tune with the sorts of things said by Rush than I am... that is ALL I said. If you keep adding words, and keep adding thoughts I just don't have into things, you will get the answer you appear to want to get.

What you call "BIAS" is the fact that I don't agree with you. You are looking at what I say as "wrong" because it doesn't match your opinion. Bias is a dislike from the word go, and that isn't the case.

I will say that if any bias does exist, it is against extremism on all sides - from communist social programs to extreme religeous based conservatism. They both push my buttons, but you rarely see what you would consider an anti-liberal bias because the political makeup of this board is almost entirely conservative ( I think Iron Horse is the major exception... he was way off the other side :-) ).

More importantly, I don't like your current President much. I think he is smug, I think he is not very articulate, he is school yard bully agressive, and he is a little transparent. I disagree with his policies because it is hard to find the sense in them (particularly economic, why give a tax cut when you are already running a deficit? Aren't you just crippling the future like that, borrowing from your children to pay for your current expenses? Isn't it also a bad idea to give a huge tax cut while engaged in a VERY expensive war?). It isn't about being biased, it is about having an opinion.

Finally, JR, on a more personal level, let me just say that you are one of the most insulting, rude, and boorish people I have even met on the boards. You cannot seem to post anything without insulting people, and when people don't want to play your game, you insult them more. That is so childish as to be beyond words. You act like a child, so I treat you like a child. In that respect, I am biased.


Alex

[Almighty Colin]

My name has definitely been mentioned in the same sentence as Rush Limbaugh's way too many times for my comfort level this week. :P

one of the many things you said Alex in trying to explain that you have a more balanced view is the following:

The difference is that you probably agree with much of what Rush has to say, so you don't see the dishonestly. I don't agree with either of these people, so it is easier for me to see the deceptions from both..."

you are talking about "my opinion" and i am talking about what you posted and your exact words and the point you were trying to make.

as i read things, you were comparing your ability to form an opinion about Rush Limbaugh and Colins ability to form an opinion about Rush Limbaugh. You tried to make the point that you have a better ability to form a balanced opinion by virtue of the fact that you dont like Rush Limbaugh. is that not correct? i guess i am missing something but the language seems to be pretty clear.

you have done this previously by trying to make the point that Americans are brainwashed by the government, dont watch enough varying news sources, US news is only propaganda etc. as i read things, it was the same arguement. you are questioning someones ability to form a balanced opinion why holding yourself above the same criticisms for varying reasons. you have never admitted any possible fault while pointing out the faults of others that i am aware of.

i did not say that you dont agree with me or make that assumption. its not important to me that you agree with me. i dont think i have ever tried to get you to agree with me. i simply laid out what i felt to be a logical argument that clearly states my perception of what was said, backed up with the evidence of your own quotes - only to have you tell me that i am quoting you wrong as a defence.

if you want to tell us all that you had a completely open mind when listening to who is arguably the worlds most hardcore conservative in the media, there is nothing i can really say to dispute that... but i would say that based on your entire history of posting, your remarks and your political views, you are VERY Liberal in your political beliefs and it is a statement that does not exactly jive with your history of attacking Conservatives and Conservative policies while defending Liberals and Liberal Policies. i respect your opinions about politics. i have no problem with that in any way. but i dont think its totally honest to say that you fall right in the middle of the political spectrum. I can quote PD for example who said "from what i see, Alex seems like any other Liberal Democrat" - i can point to numerous posts where people said "i cant believe i am agreeing with Alex" - and at one point you were accused of possibly becoming the "anti-Torone" (so its not only my view or opinion)

so, in the end, it appears your stance is not any different than any other time:

"JR, you still just dont get it"

- thats ok. you are again saying that you are not biased in any way in your opinions (with the exception of pointing out extreme examples for safetys sake).. and that others are. not much of a surprise either and its a behavior that i have pointed out in the past.

What you call "BIAS" is the fact that I don't agree with you. You are looking at what I say as "wrong" because it doesn't match your opinion. Bias is a dislike from the word go, and that isn't the case.

i never said this Alex. i sleep quite well at night knowing that some guy, somewhere does not agree with me. i did not say anything about you "not agreeing with me" - that again is your words and a twisting of the truth, not supported by fact. i did not say anything that i can recall about you agreeing with me at all and i was very careful not to state anything as fact and referred only to opinions. if i fucked that up, as hard as i was trying not to, then i am a total moron.

i also did not say that you said anything you said was "wrong"- i spoke only of opinions. nothing more. you are adding these words.

you say that Bias is "a dislike from the word go". Right now, today we are talking about two peoples ability to form an opinion based on objectivity and why you feel that one persons ability to do so is impaired, whereas yours is not. you were comparing your ability to form an opinion to anothers ability to form an opinion on a person that you ALREADY dislike. We are not talking about 14 years ago. You have made a decision that you dont like that guy. You have said it again and again. So if you were to make a decision today about Rush Limbaugh - it clearly could not possibly be an objective decision... and could not be more objective than Colins opinion simply because he may "probably" be more likely to agree with him. Making that decision years ago to "dislike" Rush Limbaugh means that today, you are not seeing anything he says or does today with any degree of objectivity, yet you are twisting logic in an amazing way to try to argue that it gives you a more superior and objective view.

again, all i am saying that you are using flawed logic to argue that Colins opinion is not objective because he may be more likely to agree with Rush Limbaugh - yet you freely admit that you are more likely to dissagree and that somehow, makes your opinion more objective.

Thats both contradictory and impossible.

i dont know why you add "more importantly, i dont like your current President much". that does not have any connection to this discussion.

i am not being rude or offensive and you just said i was. two posts were NOT DELETED. it was just an April fools joke that Serge did not catch. Sorry if you felt that something was posted that was so offensive by either Colin or myself that Serge of all people, would feel the immediate need to delete. personally, i did not think that was a reasonable assumption or i would not have done it because if it was a reasonable assumption, then it would not be humorous. i really think its unreasonable to believe that Colin would say something that Serge would feel compelled to delete in seconds. i dont think anyone here would believe that would happen.

You cannot seem to post anything without insulting people, and when people don't want to play your game, you insult them more.

you are confusing everything i have ever said to you - with everything i ever said - to mischaracterize my general behavior. its not true.

i dont blame you for making that clearly erroneous remark or for your ability to distinguish between how i have spoken to you and how i have spoken to everyone else i have ever spoken to

- i forgive you for that, because i know your opinion is just a little biased on the matter.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by RawAlex@Apr 1 2003, 09:35 AM
I suspect that the two deleted posts were the impressive acts of adults.

Nope,

Impressive April Fool's Day joke from 2 "kids".

[Almighty Colin]

I'm now the poster child for Rush Limbaugh. What a crazy week!

Originally posted by Colin@Apr 1 2003, 02:00 PM
I'm now the poster child for Rush Limbaugh. What a crazy week!

sorry Colin. next week, i will make you the poster boy for Al Sharpton to negate this weeks posts.