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Originally posted by Cleo@Jul 8 2004, 04:37 AM I finally find a thread on Oprana that I find interesting and informative and you all drive away the most relative poster.
I´m still confused to how we drived anyone away - I didn´t see a lynch mob in this thread, and there were some constructive posts?
What do you think was the turning point in this thread (Shemp you are welcome to answer this too) - I´m really interested
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Cleo he might have been most relevant poster for a traffic whore who has to make her living pandering for links from people.
I have never met Shemp, but he seems to be a fair and honest guy. Some people just do not have the will to deal with criticism - fair or unfair.
Oprano has never been a place for asskissing, we call it the no spin zone for a reason. As Serge says, if you can make it at Oprano, you can make it anywhere. Some people are not up for a challenge.
The sun does not rise or fall based on Shemp.... He is just another small cog in this whole industry.
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Gonzo, thanks for the input - this was prehaps the thing I didn´t see... that Shemp was proud of being a TGP owner, and took it personal when we spoke about the problems and benefits of TGPs?
I didn´t really see any negative trend in the debate, I saw the debate more as an "eye opener" and "exchange of toughts" (we do not debate TGPs every day, so alot have been build up) - there were no personal attacks, nothing which ultimate said TGPs owners go away - and that is the thing, because most of us (even Vick) are working with or are thinking about starting with TGPs (either as owners or galleries).
I read it more constructive, as the first seeds to be planted in an area, which hopefully will get more attention on Oprano... the most constructive threads on boards are the once where people agree that they disagree, and then try to prove that their toughts/ideas/concepts etc. works in more than theory (we saw that in areas like payout etc.).
We can´t really control anyone with what we post on boards (ok, maybe on some boards and with some board persons, hehehe...), however we can make a difference in the way they perceive things. My toughts about TGPs is that they should be like business, but that doesn´t mean that everyone else will agree with that, but hopefully someone will and share their ideas or prehaps they will prove too me, that its not possible to run a TGP like a business. Either way then I might leave the debate with more than I came with.
And thats one of the things I like about Oprano - maybe to someone who just dropped by, then we look like a cloned community, however I see alot of difference between personalities, who can make insightful arguments, and make construtive debates. This is not another board, where the "post count" counts, and ass kissing is turning into ass rimming...
For those who will still be here to talk about TGP business, then I wil be looking forward to the many debates, and exchanges of ideas we will have in the future
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Cleo he might have been most relevant poster for a traffic whore who has to make her living pandering for links from people.
I have never met Shemp, but he seems to be a fair and honest guy. Some people just do not have the will to deal with criticism - fair or unfair.
Oprano has never been a place for asskissing, we call it the no spin zone for a reason. As Serge says, if you can make it at Oprano, you can make it anywhere. Some people are not up for a challenge.
The sun does not rise or fall based on Shemp.... He is just another small cog in this whole industry.
Mike , I hate to say it but I agree with you 100%.
I did not think the criticism was that marked anyways.
I am so fucking glad I no longer have a board and do not have to worry about these dramas anymore. ;-))))))
I used to get 2am calls commencing "Have you read the board?...."
Because someone had taken affront from someone and had spat the dummy.
I'm the villain, I chased Shemp away (again this is all business/board bullshit and has nothing to do with anyone or anything personally)
How did I do it? By raising points, asking questions, voicing discontent, not being satisfied with the statue quo, poking into what I consider to be a terrible business model, posting numbers - nothing personal, only business
What happened to Oprano - more Ideas than a Think Tank?
That doesn't happen with just one side of any issue
I don't want to go back to the past, I want to move into the future and consider ways in increase profits
Many seem to want to suck the TGP tit, fine that's on you but what happens when that tit goes dry? It's drying up now and many keep trying to suck it. Obviously from my point of view it's one of the worst business models ever in any business - read through this entire thread - I've stated the whys over and over
Many say it's what is going on in the industry, sorry you feel content to accept that
I really wish many in this business had balls to innovate and not follow the crowd.
An all text link site would be beautiful (I have one), let the sponsors do what they do best, sell and convert and affiliates move the traffic.
Afraid to lose the bookmarkers you get from 50,000 free pics a day? - do you think they really buy or just waste time, efforts and bandwidth. Have some balls and find out, get rid of the freeloaders.
TGP is at the point of diminishing returns, you're going to keep getting less on your returns so one day you'll have to do something else - now is a great time to start
Cut down your time spent and do other profitable things!
I have no remorse over anything I posted here, I do feel bad that Gonzo put effort on getting a poster here (of some renown) who felt they needed to leave when their business model was challenged
Maybe someone should have posted treat with kid gloves, allow to post anything without questioning, suck up and treat like a demagogue (ok I'm overstating the issue here)
In closing the immortal words of Axl Rose
"You get nothing for nothing if that's what you do"
or
"Can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"
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Vick I think you have raised some good points, and I read your posts as something useful - a different perspective, while I do not agree with all of the conclusions (ex. that it will be the end of the industry), then I do agree with your opinion about which direction we have been going with the TGP model.
I also agree with Shemp´s view on mass produced hosted galleries, and with his remark about too much being free/easy for the average webmasters to start new TGPs. However we can not make either go away, but we can try and change them to the better. If we look at TGPs from a business view instead of an emotional view, then we can improve many areas at tgps, paysites and affiliates - these are the areas I would like to discuss... if we do nothing, then change will still come, however question is, if we want to be a part of it. I would like to be part of it - would you?
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
KK, masterp might have thrown a stone at KC, but accendently it landed into the think tank, and soon it caused rings in the water, which were headed away from the original point without looking back... maybe the next time we do not need to throw stones into the think tank to cause movement, prehaps we just need someone to make a belly flop into the tank with her/his thoughts/ideas/concepts
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 8 2004, 04:24 PM KK, masterp might have thrown a stone at KC, but accendently it landed into the think tank, and soon it caused rings in the water, which were headed away from the original point without looking back... maybe the next time we do not need to throw stones into the think tank to cause movement, prehaps we just need someone to make a belly flop into the tank with her/his thoughts/ideas/concepts
It appears the bellyflop contest had a casualty this time already.
Originally posted by Vick@Jul 8 2004, 12:49 PM Obviously from my point of view it's one of the worst business models ever in any business - read through this entire thread - I've stated the whys over and over
Vick, yes I noticed you posted your point over and over and over and over .... and you are still posting it over and over and over ... how many of the responses did you actually read and accept as someone else's valid opinion without trying to prove your point over and over again? You were hell bent on proving a point which was patronizing, insulting and assumed that shemp is a moron who just hasn't figured out you are right yet.
We all know how you feel about tgp's because we've all shared the same thoughts at 1 time or another ... but one of the princes of this industry was just brought into this community so that perhaps we could learn to understand HOW we can work an overall industry change for the future. If anyone can do it its the webmasters at this board combined with a bit of outside knowledge.
But sometimes it disgusts me how closed minded the old timers have become. "My Way or the Highway" ... its a real shame.
Shemp has a successful tgp. Gonzo put in a lot of work to make a plan for the future.
But thanks to a few who were so hell bent on proving their point to themselves, we no longer have a tgp expert.
Why should a successful person need to prove themselves to any one of us? Nobody here has anything to offer shemp he doesn't already have, but the same doesn't apply in reverse.
Mike, your attitude surprises me most. Of all the people who should have their ears open more often than their mouth in shemp's presence, its purecash. But you must know all about tgp's already ...
*shaking head*
I'm still shocked by this thread ... i really thought when it came down to it we were mature and intelligent enough to open our minds long enough to hear someone else's opinion.
Originally posted by cj@Jul 8 2004, 04:51 PM I'm still shocked by this thread ... i really thought when it came down to it we were mature and intelligent enough to open our minds long enough to hear someone else's opinion.
I guess not.
I actual feel the opposite - like I posted earlier, than I didn´t see a negative trend in the debate... I saw questions, which might have needed more than a "one line answer" - this might have been overwhelming for one person who also have other things to take care of, and throwing in the white towel was the fast way out of a possible long exchange of thoughts.
There were no personal attacks (well beside the masterp/KC exchange), and I think its fair for Shemp to decide his time is better used elsewhere. But that doesn´t mean that the TGP subject is now dead at Oprano - it just means we need to move on - maybe Shemp will return, when he has more time.
In the meantime the TGP experience on Oprano is not newbie, so CJ do not panic - we should able to put 2+2 together ;-) (I actual think Shemp already gave 90% of all the wisdom behide present TGPs in one of his first posts).
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Originally posted by *KK*@Jul 8 2004, 03:29 PM Oh my, all this because this masterp guy tried to take a stab at KC?
KK, you know more than well 2 months ago. KC went over to J----B---M and accused me of having spywareon my poker shit. Guess what, I didn't have any. So Fuck him for trying to ruin my name. . He took the first stab at me. I am showing him by having this thread, karma is a bitch
Plus, The title of the thread is true and it came from a very powerful voice in this industry. Patrick from the hun.
Originally posted by cj@Jul 8 2004, 09:49 PM so repeatedly telling someone their business model doesn't work and is the downfall of the industry is not negative?
If we were talking about recurrings, xsales, mailings, traffic country filtering etc. all those things paysites do to make money, which many webmasters find a harm to the industry, then I wouldn´t take it personal, if someone told me that those things were a negative to the industry. If I disagreed with the comments then I would say so, if they gave good comment/views/ideas etc. then I would listen. There is no correct way to run a business - its always changing, and the way you find out is when income/profits drops, however there are usual warning signs before this happens - one of them being comments/ideas/concepts from others, so it often pays to listen.
You could try and convince me that my person was the downfall of the industry, and then I might take it personal, however saying that the way business is done will be the downfall, well thats just business - nothing personal.
I have seen too many people loose part of their personality, because their business failed in which they had invested so much of themself... all business will eventual fail - everything is on time.. what you got today, could be gone in 1 year, so do not take it personal in business - it will only end up hurting more than its worth.
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
I consider KC to be a great friend, and a wonderful business person.
I am fortunate to have friends like KC!
__________________
Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Serge , do not make people join your own vendetta. (but I will) they may be yr friend..,....
Brad...you are a gutless dickless peice of shit who is fortunate to have classy people on yr side.
MasterP...you are nothing...until you accept you are the peon you are...fuck you...
Greenguy , I count as a friend...class all the way...fuck you, maserp, He has been a guest in my house and was a perfect gentlemen.
KC...(I met him once ...class he added MEAT to my soup)...class guy...you , masterp do not have the right to swell the wind from his ass
Masterp , you pick fights with people who you are not worthy to even mention...fuck you...beeeeeeyatch!!!!!!
In vino veritas....
fucking absinthe.... ;-))))
Serge , as an old friend...masterp is the biggest cunt in christendom...lose him!!!!
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Jul 10 2004, 12:54 AM mho...
as the crooked bastard of Oprano.
Serge , do not make people join your own vendetta. (but I will) they may be yr friend..,....
Brad...you are a gutless dickless peice of shit who is fortunate to have classy people on yr side.
MasterP...you are nothing...until you accept you are the peon you are...fuck you...
Greenguy , I count as a friend...class all the way...fuck you, maserp, He has been a guest in my house and was a perfect gentlemen.
KC...(I met him once ...class he added MEAT to my soup)...class guy...you , masterp do not have the right to swell the wind from his ass
Masterp , you pick fights with people who you are not worthy to even mention...fuck you...beeeeeeyatch!!!!!!
In vino veritas....
fucking absinthe.... ;-))))
Serge , as an old friend...masterp is the biggest cunt in christendom...lose him!!!!