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Oprano in general has a severe lack of TGP-knowledge. So ya bring in a top tier TGP player, and all around great guy, like Shemp to add a bit of TGP to the gumbo.
Do you open your mind, listen to the man, and try to understand why there's a TGP on every corner and almost every sponsor is churning out hosted galleries and free content to feed 'em?
No. You do nothing but ridicule TGP's and try to tell Shemp what's wrong with his business plan while many of you are struggling to find that next "thing" to grab onto to make a paycheck or cling to the hope that the industry will have a shake out and you're one of the ones left clinging to the tree.
If there was ever a doubt that Oprano was a niche or a clique, this thread pretty much just proved it. And hey, that's just fine, dont get me wrong. But I'm sad to see a good guy like Shemp run off. He really could've brought some new perspectives on the business. Something about old dogs and new tricks comes to mind I s'pose.
Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 6 2004, 11:39 PM Amazing, but not surprising....
Oprano in general has a severe lack of TGP-knowledge. So ya bring in a top tier TGP player, and all around great guy, like Shemp to add a bit of TGP to the gumbo.
Do you open your mind, listen to the man, and try to understand why there's a TGP on every corner and almost every sponsor is churning out hosted galleries and free content to feed 'em?
No. You do nothing but ridicule TGP's and try to tell Shemp what's wrong with his business plan while many of you are struggling to find that next "thing" to grab onto to make a paycheck or cling to the hope that the industry will have a shake out and you're one of the ones left clinging to the tree.
If there was ever a doubt that Oprano was a niche or a clique, this thread pretty much just proved it. And hey, that's just fine, dont get me wrong. But I'm sad to see a good guy like Shemp run off. He really could've brought some new perspectives on the business. Something about old dogs and new tricks comes to mind I s'pose.
HP, other the Vick I did not read any posts that were negative about TGPs, or those who run them.
I was enjoying thread, and trying to learn. I have been in TGP for a short time and have a lot of catching up to do.
I think Oprano has all types, but I do agree that in general we are ignorant about TGPs and such..... I was amazed at how complex and sophisticated ( and crooked) it can be.
I think others here did the same.
It is sad that Shemp felt insulted, but Oprano is the no spin zone, and we recomend people leave their egos at the door.
If Shemp is merely looking to have his ass kissed, and smoke blown up his skirt then Oprano is not the place for him. There are many diverse opinions about everything here, and we don't have many asskissers.
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another thing not taken into account here is the law of diminishing returns
In this example it will only apply to the paysite advertiser and TGP relationship (who knows one day TGP'S may be able to have advertising for GM, Pepsi or what have you and tout their branding)
Somewhere in this thread I believe I read one of the goals of a TGP site was to get as many eyes as possible (hence the banning of galleries with certain counters and such) and that enabled the selling of advertising
What happens if due to the glut of free porn available from TGP sites no one buys porn anymore?
They can get it all for free, why buy it - been headed down that slope for a while
(there are other reasons beyond the glut of free pron)
What happens if advertisers stop buying due to poor ROI?
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Oh, I know, thin skin doesn't last long here, never has....likely never will.
And yeah, maybe it's just a very vocal handful, but if you go read thru the thread from the perspective of someone who is new and doesn't know the personalities here....it does come across as beligerent and close minded.
And my reasons for being a bit ticked are perhaps selfish because I consider many of the folx here at Oprano to be like-minded with myself overall and there are people here I know I can trust to do business with.
I'd like to see a few more of them in the TGP game, so there's more Opranaughts to trade traffic with, etc. I'm a little tired of killing 90% of the galleries submitted for toolbars and other bullshit, and killing 90% of the trades for either the same reason or for hitbotting. I've spent way too much time the past few weeks writing sql just to clean out the dirtbags...
Originally posted by Hell Puppy@Jul 7 2004, 12:08 AM Oh, I know, thin skin doesn't last long here, never has....likely never will.
And yeah, maybe it's just a very vocal handful, but if you go read thru the thread from the perspective of someone who is new and doesn't know the personalities here....it does come across as beligerent and close minded.
And my reasons for being a bit ticked are perhaps selfish because I consider many of the folx here at Oprano to be like-minded with myself overall and there are people here I know I can trust to do business with.
I'd like to see a few more of them in the TGP game, so there's more Opranaughts to trade traffic with, etc. I'm a little tired of killing 90% of the galleries submitted for toolbars and other bullshit, and killing 90% of the trades for either the same reason or for hitbotting. I've spent way too much time the past few weeks writing sql just to clean out the dirtbags...
Hell Puppy I am with you.
Gonzo worked hard to get Shemp here. I was happy when he came over, but you cannot make people fee a certain way based on individuals posts.
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HP - I'm the prime opponent of TGP's - there is no way anyone can ever convince me a TGP is a good business model
(but we're stuck with them just the same)
If something I've posted ran Shemp off (and I also posted it was nothing personal - just business and in his welcome post here said while I have not yet had the pleasure of meeting him I have heard good things about him)
I apologize, but ...... I speak my mind
and maybe if someone chooses not to post anymore because of this discussion they may be a little on the thin skinned side
It's an exchange of ideas - right wrong different indifferent or whatever
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Originally posted by Vick@Jul 7 2004, 12:04 AM another thing not taken into account here is the law of diminishing returns
In this example it will only apply to the paysite advertiser and TGP relationship (who knows one day TGP'S may be able to have advertising for GM, Pepsi or what have you and tout their branding)
Somewhere in this thread I believe I read one of the goals of a TGP site was to get as many eyes as possible (hence the banning of galleries with certain counters and such) and that enabled the selling of advertising
What happens if due to the glut of free porn available from TGP sites no one buys porn anymore?
They can get it all for free, why buy it - been headed down that slope for a while
(there are other reasons beyond the glut of free pron)
What happens if advertisers stop buying due to poor ROI?
Vick,
In a way, I'd say we're already there. If you're just selling the same old still photosets that have been licensed to every major paysite, you aren't going to convert for shit, especially with TGP traffic.
Here's a little TGP 101... If you want to convert, you need to have at least one of the following:
--Videos, large high quality videos
--Top notch exclusive content, which YOU control, so you regulate how much of it is released. If you have a total hottie for a solo girl site, dont give away pussy shots.
Originally posted by Hell Puppy+Jul 7 2004, 12:20 AM-->
QUOTE (Hell Puppy @ Jul 7 2004, 12:20 AM)
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 7 2004, 12:23 AM
One reason so much fresh content is being shot now is due to TGPs. To convert and do well custom content is the way to go. How many people were shooting custom content 2-4-6 years ago?
Bandwidth is a big part of that too. 1.5 mbps at the house is pretty much the norm for would-be customers. The guy still too cheap to buy cable/dsl and suffering at 56K sure as hell wont pay to join a porn site. Many areas have 3 mbps or better....
You can surf an awful lot of porn at those speeds. This is also what's driving video.
In 97 when we were all on modems for the most part, if you decide you want to rub one out, it would take 15-20 minutes to sample 5-6 good free sites or link sites just due to load times. Now, you can burn thru hundreds of pages or galleries in the same time looking for just the right content that does it for you....you dont settle just because you're tired of surfing.
The best content wins....but the paysite owners themselves should make sure they only release enough to tease. The TGP owner only has enough time to basically make sure the gallery is clean and isn't going to piss off his surfers. If the pics look good, the vast majority do not care whether you opt to give away nothing more than side of breasts and ass shots or whether you show double penetration. That's up to the submitter and how he wants to market his gallery.
I don't like tgp's as a rule ... but over the last few months i've learned enough to realize that I don't like tgp's because there are too many, not because the business model doesn't work.
I think there should be 1 tgp for every 500 paysites instead of the opposite it seems to be now ....
1-15 photos per paysite as 'sample' pics ...
I was just starting to learn something about your business model Shemp, so I for one am sorry to see you go.
I think 'thin skinned' is more like 'couldn't be fucked wasting the energy to explain something to deaf ears'.
HP said it best, there are enough tgp's doing extremely well that it always pays to listen ... ya just never know what you will learn about your own business when you see it through another webmasters eyes.
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 6 2004, 08:47 PM HP, other the Vick I did not read any posts that were negative about TGPs, or those who run them.
I was enjoying thread, and trying to learn. I have been in TGP for a short time and have a lot of catching up to do.
I agree - I had looked forward hearing some good arguments on why and how... didnīt really read any negativ attack post, I read opinions, questions, knowledge and ideas - nothing anyone has to defend against.
But since most of us are already having or starting TGPs, then Iīm sure this topic will still be hot - and I do not think the knowledge on Oprano is TGP newbie, most of us understand it, but since many of us also know paysites etc., then we have a better chance of making a good or even better TGP business model, than most TGPs started by newbíes. Marketing skills take time to master - it doesnīt make you are guru by giving free content... giving free content away, and make a killing in the process, thats something only people who understand the business can do, and I find the possiblity that someone like that is/will be reading Oprano very high.
From a paysite point of view, then I see great opportunities, from a TGP point of view, then I see lots of opportunities - we just need to work on connecting the dots between the paysites and tgps, and then both will prosper
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
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We have been trying some different models - from exit chain to inside members areas etc. with different layout on the tgps depending on their purpose ex. inside the member areas, it was designed more as a channel/section of the paysite, so members didnīt see them as free, but something they bought access too - on exit chains we had more traditonal tgp and thumb tgp layouts, also low converting countries were filtered off to other purposed than to make them bookmark. All places had hosted galleries from sponsors with good "turn on" content (nothing ultra hardcore) - coversions were very good. We are still experimenting on both generating traffic, and on optimizing the bookmarks we receive, and feel that we will in time have build a new income source, keep traffic longer and will have something to trade with other paysite partners once they get started
How will you get traffic to your TGPs?
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
It took me 2 days to read this thread.. and I have finally reached the end.. good read. Ahh.. if I had only left my Shaven Ferret script running on auto approve all those years ago..
Did not mean they should do it to get goodwill, but because it makes business sense - just as removing galleries/sites with hidden autodownloads...
TGPs can price themself as hookers - some hookers cost $1 other cost more than $1.000.000 - Iīm sure that the one dollar hookers get customers, but that doesnīt mean they will ever be rich, and sooner or later they will be so used and infected with all kinds of things, that customers would want to get paid to fuck them.
TGPs do not need to cater to freeloaders - use focus on those that bring in sales, and stop loosing sleep over some 3rd world surfer who might not show up in the stats, because he can not get off on the TGP, since the only english word he understand is FREE.
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 7 2004, 07:02 PM Another 140 replied 1000, views+ thread from Masterp74. My 3rd career one BTW
Be careful to not pull you arm of it the socket when patting yourself on the back!
:P
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Originally posted by masterp74+Jul 7 2004, 08:07 PM-->
QUOTE (masterp74 @ Jul 7 2004, 08:07 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 7 2004, 04:26 PM
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Originally posted by Cleo@Jul 8 2004, 04:37 AM I finally find a thread on Oprana that I find interesting and informative and you all drive away the most relative poster.
Iīm still confused to how we drived anyone away - I didnīt see a lynch mob in this thread, and there were some constructive posts?
What do you think was the turning point in this thread (Shemp you are welcome to answer this too) - Iīm really interested
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
Cleo he might have been most relevant poster for a traffic whore who has to make her living pandering for links from people.
I have never met Shemp, but he seems to be a fair and honest guy. Some people just do not have the will to deal with criticism - fair or unfair.
Oprano has never been a place for asskissing, we call it the no spin zone for a reason. As Serge says, if you can make it at Oprano, you can make it anywhere. Some people are not up for a challenge.
The sun does not rise or fall based on Shemp.... He is just another small cog in this whole industry.
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Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Gonzo, thanks for the input - this was prehaps the thing I didnīt see... that Shemp was proud of being a TGP owner, and took it personal when we spoke about the problems and benefits of TGPs?
I didnīt really see any negative trend in the debate, I saw the debate more as an "eye opener" and "exchange of toughts" (we do not debate TGPs every day, so alot have been build up) - there were no personal attacks, nothing which ultimate said TGPs owners go away - and that is the thing, because most of us (even Vick) are working with or are thinking about starting with TGPs (either as owners or galleries).
I read it more constructive, as the first seeds to be planted in an area, which hopefully will get more attention on Oprano... the most constructive threads on boards are the once where people agree that they disagree, and then try to prove that their toughts/ideas/concepts etc. works in more than theory (we saw that in areas like payout etc.).
We canīt really control anyone with what we post on boards (ok, maybe on some boards and with some board persons, hehehe...), however we can make a difference in the way they perceive things. My toughts about TGPs is that they should be like business, but that doesnīt mean that everyone else will agree with that, but hopefully someone will and share their ideas or prehaps they will prove too me, that its not possible to run a TGP like a business. Either way then I might leave the debate with more than I came with.
And thats one of the things I like about Oprano - maybe to someone who just dropped by, then we look like a cloned community, however I see alot of difference between personalities, who can make insightful arguments, and make construtive debates. This is not another board, where the "post count" counts, and ass kissing is turning into ass rimming...
For those who will still be here to talk about TGP business, then I wil be looking forward to the many debates, and exchanges of ideas we will have in the future
__________________ "Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
07-06-2004
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