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| Legacy Archived Main Board Business chat and general industry chat. All participation is welcome. Dont post your fucking spam here. |
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12-07-2003
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#101 |
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Fat Fucking Nobody
Want to see your own Advertising Here!
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,523
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Wasn't KimmyKim supposed to come in here and pick all of this to pieces?
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12-07-2003
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#102 |
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Members
 Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 42
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Of course it's definetely not a good idea to do anything like that in an acquirer like CSI (FDMS) where VISA stays at day and night with a SWAT team ready for intrusion.
 There though it's gonna be relatively easy to change the merchant account to adult MCC coding. By the way, does anybody know how is it possible to put different MMC codes on one merchant account? It must be possible, because in the system as far as I know the code applies to a transaction, not to the whole merchant account. |
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12-07-2003
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#103 | |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 42
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12-08-2003
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#104 |
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Members
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Roskilde, Denmark
Posts: 553
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Nice info Redeye - Good reading... reminds me of the old ynot and netpond days.... (small tear runs down my chin)
Anywho... since you seem to know your stuff about this I have a few questions/corrections for you. 1. PBS in Denmark, you say they are still open for adult transactions right? - They are not. PBS Do process for adult still but its only for Dankort which is like a danish Amex. VISA/Mastercard was taken down this year. 2. This is a question. - I know that Interpay the dutch gateway, which supposely are owned by Mastercard and some dutch banks are putting off processing for their adult merchants if you run sites such as pissing, bondage etc in that niche. And this is not a ruling by VISA but by InterPay itself. Is there any truth to this? 3. It has been said that InterPay will stop all adult merchants that process bestiality in the first months of 04, that's atleast the rumours. The other rumours are they wont as they are affraid of lawsuits, which one is it? I have more questions, but it's late here and I need my beauty sleep lol. So hopefully you have answered my questions by the time I return. Last edited by Mystery Man at Dec 7 2003, 09:25 PM
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icq is 892525 bitches... |
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12-08-2003
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#105 | |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 42
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I'm not sure if it was said, but I run a lot of things including Russia's largest adult webmaster board , Serge reffered to it once - Krutop. I already had a bad experience trying to setup cc processing in Russia when I came in to the biggest Russian acquirer (huge bank, big even by western standarts, the main promoter of VISA in Russia) to the vice head of E-Commerce department and have been speaking for 30 minutes about processing opportunities , our dutch companies, been trying to explain what "high risk commerce" means and when I went on to the subject of IPSP rules in USA, this vice head of e-commerce whom I never met before, suddenly said "Yep I read about this IPSP stuff. Somewhere on Crutop. Hello RedEye."  Anyway, back to subject: 1. I never said PBS does adult. Quite on the contrary. PBS doesnt do adult for already several years after one of three big billing companies in USA fucked them for millions and millions. 2 & 3. You got it all wrong a bit. InterPay Nederlands is not a gateway. "Gateway" usually means Payment Service Provider (PSP). InterPay Nederlands is not exactly a payment service provider , , it is one of a few largest acquiring banks in Europe. InterPay is owned by dutch banks including ABN Amro and ING which are among top 20 banks in the world.InterPay is a sole representative of MasterCard in Netherlands and is a major co-owner of MasterCard Europe. Sometimes when MasterCard comes somewhere officially to establish processing it's the InterPay which really comes. There are several gateways (PSPs) plugged into InterPay at this moment of which only 1 officially allows adult and that is vxsbill.com which is Your best way to InterPay. There is one other , which is the largest non adult PSP in Europe and it is Ogone.nl, company mentioned along with Bibit in the e-commerce researches of the European Bank which issues Euros, I dont remember it's name, Ogone and Bibit are huge guys, if I am correct Ibill & CCBill are much smaller, but Ogone will take Your merchant account on their gateway only on a very strict case per case basis, although it has been done before. In any case You need Your own merchant account in InterPay which is again difficult to get unless You are dutch. InterPay has a problem that most of it's adult clients are extreme sites, the problem comes from a very simple fact that InterPay is Dutch and in Netherlands almost all kinds of porn are legal. Therefore the first guys who got problems with processing during these years all went there (zoo, rape , incest and so on). Generally InterPay does not like porn either. Being dutch does not make them porn lovers You know. In fact they dont love e-commerce too much as well. They also have as client one of known third party billing companies out there , so together with vxs dudes , who are quite nice by the way if You are nice Yourself, they got it all shared over there and would not like any extra attention, this is one other reason they hate extreme sites. And more or less it's quite natural they dont want anyone to get into their small kingdom. The problem lies also in the fact that Netherlands is a very legal country so to say. It's the home of Haag, headquarters of law in Europe. If the extreme sites are legal there it is very difficult to cancel services for them due to the fact that InterPay is a monopolist in Netherlands and has enough of bad publicity about that. Besides that, Netherlands is a very small country. Basicly InterPay has a few webmasters who use them whom InterPay and the "kingdom" around it hates (as any kingdom , kings like people to crawl, and hate those who refuse) but is still not able to cancell them. So they have the same game VISA has with Ibill and CCBill - just smaller. Making new rules every day, which probably makes the life in Netherlands less boring for all of them. Whom the rules come from by the way, them or VISA/MC is always very difficult to tell. You have to understand that VISA/MC are membership organisations. Nobody has direct relationships with VISA but acquirers. Acquirers have NDAs with VISA and therefore are never able to release any information which passes in between VISA/MC and the acquirer. That's the answer by the way on the question "why nobody ever saw god damn VISA rules we all heard so much about".To summarise I'd say that InterPay is the best rock solid solution one can find for a direct merchant account for adult these days. However Your acceptance there purely relies if people there like You. Your volume does not matter there unlike other places since InterPay or VXS do not want to have 100 000 000 from adult by tomorrow. They have enough already. You will not be able to play games like dutch guys do with extreme sites and laws about them, because You are not dutch. Laws do exist and for a dutch person their authorities may indeed prosecute whomever they want to for breaking those laws. This does not include foreigners in the majority of cases with minor exceptions .
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12-08-2003
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#106 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 42
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By the way, one thing I wanted to add.
You dont have to be mad on the billing companies always behaving like Credit Card processing is some secret science magic which can not be explained to mere mortals , the Gandalf way of talking. The problem is that in the Acquiring banks themselves quite often employees can not figure out what the fuck this rule means and what the fuck that and which one applies and which one doesnt. We couple of times called to Visa London to the department which issued IPSP rules. Beleive it or not , since the person who signed those rules was unavailable, they coulnt find a single living soul to explain ANYTHING. Although I spoke to several risk management department managers, to VISA CEMEA and EU reps and this kind of people. And You have to understand - that headquarters for fucks sake! So what do You want? Ibill CEO or Epoch CEO coming out here saying: "Hey guys! I got no FUCKING idea what they mean by "principal" , where the fuck Cyprus and Gibraltar are located according to them, what the fuck is 3D Secure and how the fucking hell we now calculate chargebacks according to the latest rules and regulations. Excuse me for not knowing this shit. By the fucking way, guys where should I keep Your 80 million? My top pick is BNP ParisBas guys, but Serge called and said their fees are crap so now what ?" Remember how Epoch and Ibill did press releases how they gonna run transactions on Verify by Visa and never did? Well...take a hint... But it's impossible to blame them for it, cause they are not the people who are supposed get the rules and explain them from card associations. |
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12-08-2003
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#107 |
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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3rd party processing may evolve into "ticketmaster" type companies due to new rules by VISA/MC, which would also solve alot of the problems ahead (banking rules, VAT/sales taxes, and content laws), but the "ticketmaster" processing will have greater risk of getting closed if they have rotten apples + it will take options away from site owners.
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"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man." ~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918 |
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12-08-2003
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#108 |
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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VISA/MC wants too know who they are doing business with... The games which have been played the last 3-4 years will end. VISA/MC might work slow at times, but they are getting there. However that doesn´t mean that we will see the last of those who will push the rules, which will make it harder for all of us.
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"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man." ~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918 |
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12-08-2003
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#109 |
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Members
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northern Outpost of Hell
Posts: 428
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Some excellent infor here welcome to the gumbo, Redeye...
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12-08-2003
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#110 | |
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Members
I'm new!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 3
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Quote:
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12-08-2003
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#111 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 42
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1. The ticketmaster type of registration if I am not mistaken is bs, just the same as "third party billing" in relation to VISA rules.
The point is very clear - You can not aggregate transactions which belong to different clients into one merchant account. You are free so to say to develop ticket software being used by many clients, but each client will have to have a separate merchant ID. The same applies to all virtual money systems (PayPal, E-Gold). Moreover, on virtual money systems while they still exist the appropriate MCC codes must be applied at this moment on submerchants. All systems that are working like claming that for example several sites of different clients are in fact theirs or that they sell tickets for access or that their clients are their providers and they are distributors have one drawback - as long as they publicly (via website) get their clients, it's against the rules. 2. VISA/MC does not want to know each merchant. Thats not entirely correct. Why should they want to know? They are a membership type of organisation for a good reason. Unprofitable by the way , as far as the russian sites says (all money invested into further development). I dont think anyone being ok in the head will ever want to have a beautifull chance of looking through and making due diligence on 100 000 porn paysites. They just want each acquiring bank to know each of their merchants. That's one of the things they get payed for. "Know Your client" and stuff... The exception is IPSP with FDMS exactly because VISA didnt like the way FDMS used to know each of their clients. Last edited by RedEye at Dec 8 2003, 06:31 AM |
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12-08-2003
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#112 | ||
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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Quote:
Quote:
http://news.com.com/2100-1023-244881.html Yes, I´m sure that the VISA/MC board members do not sit around surfing adult sites (well some of them might in their own private time), but acquiring banks do need a place to share information...
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"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man." ~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918 |
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12-08-2003
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#113 | |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: South Florida
Posts: 2,087
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Live radio and audio downloads have a definite place in marketing and promoting products. Not only will it capture new customers but it is an excellent way to promote new products to existing customers continuing to build good customer relationships. Click here for more info |
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12-08-2003
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#114 |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,156
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redeye, i believe cardservice now has wells fargo as an acquiring bank as well. although it may only be for their nonadult customers.
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Quickbuck is paying $100 Per trial join. |
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12-08-2003
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#115 | |
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 92
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Is this a VISA USA rule or VISA Int'l too? RedEye, have you heard of a company called TranSecure? |
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12-08-2003
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 42
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yes very interesting thread, I regged my nick, just to read it!
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