Homegrown remembers when...

[softball]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I think I read that Shiraz is out with his fellow inmate ScottPB.

Do they teach you to fix Lambos in jail?

[Far-L]

Any predictions for what or who will be the next spectacular crash and burn?

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Any predictions for what or who will be the next spectacular crash and burn?

Toss up between Jayxxx and PornoDan or the final chapter of AFF.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Toss up between Jayxxx and PornoDan or the final chapter of AFF.

lol, can't speak for either JayXXX or AFF but I can certainly say that Porno Dan has made an art form of crashing and burning (but somehow only coming through with a bit of a singe) which is at times awe inspiring.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Far-L

lol, can't speak for either JayXXX or AFF but I can certainly say that Porno Dan has made an art form of crashing and burning (but somehow only coming through with a bit of a singe) which is at times awe inspiring.

Teflon comes to mind

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Toss up between Jayxxx and PornoDan or the final chapter of AFF.

I hope it's not Porno Dan.
The guy always seems to be "swinging" away.

[MikeSouth]

define crash and burn...porno dan got the blonde tips knocked outta his hair last night.

but I say AFF because the pornodan and xxxjay thing wont get big enough to explode.

Someone give Dominic Kane legendary Liars address will ya.

[RawAlex]

I have to say that XXXJay has impressed me with his ability to not be standing under heavy objects when they fall. It is a real skill.

[Toby]

Hey Far-L wtf is up with this?

http://www.pornhub.com/users/HomeGrownVideo

[softball]

Originally Posted by Toby

Hey Far-L wtf is up with this?

http://www.pornhub.com/users/HomeGrownVideo

Interesting. Theft?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Interesting. Theft?

Not with an affiliate link to HomeGrown above each clip.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Toby

Not with an affiliate link to HomeGrown above each clip.

I was trying to be "generous". Farell, could you please drop by and explain your position.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I was trying to be "generous". Farell, could you please drop by and explain your position.

What is the problem here? We advertise on tubes. If our content is used without permission or without our branding then we ask it to be removed or replaced.

Is this an anti tube tribunal? Upon what charges am I being accused? Can you please be more specific?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

What is the problem here? We advertise on tubes. If our content is used without permission or without our branding then we ask it to be removed or replaced.

Is this an anti tube tribunal? Upon what charges am I being accused? Can you please be more specific?

Pornhub is one of the largest illegal tubes (as in stolen content). Why would you choose to do business with theives?

[softball]

Originally Posted by Far-L

What is the problem here? We advertise on tubes. If our content is used without permission or without our branding then we ask it to be removed or replaced.

Is this an anti tube tribunal? Upon what charges am I being accused? Can you please be more specific?

Thanks for responding.

[tony404]

boy the tone here changed quick lol

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by tony404

boy the tone here changed quick lol

Are you surprised?

[Far-L]

I don't mind a heathly debate of this but seems to me that you all think that it is a character issue and not a business consideration. Either way... I am open to discussion. Let's go.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I don't mind a heathly debate of this but seems to me that you all think that it is a character issue and not a business consideration. Either way... I am open to discussion. Let's go.

The high volume of traffic on PornHub and other sites like it is due to the large number of full scenes and full dvds. Nearly all of these longer vids have been "uploaded" without consent of the copyright holder. Without that stolen content there would be minimal traffic to the site.

By doing business with PornHub you are participating in the exploitation and use of that stolen content to generate income for both yourself and for PornHub.

Not only is this ethically questionable, it's detrimental to the health of this industry, particularly to those whose content is being used without consent.

[gonzo]

I have more to say about this but I dont want to steer the conversation one way or another so I will contribute 2 things in hopes that the thread stay constructive.

1. Instead of falling for another membership drive by the FSC promising to save your content I recommend Eric Green's service at Remove Your Content.

Removeyourcontent offers adult content producers, webmasters and distributors a unique service to fight online media piracy. We do not publish client lists, actively solicit services or upsell through webmaster affiliate programs. Nearly all of our business has been by word of mouth, repeat and referals. If you are frustrated with online content theft and file-sharing, please consider our service to help you take back your copyrights!


2. Brazzers seems to be in a little trouble here in atlanta for alleged money laundering.

http://adultfyi.com/read.php?ID=40145

[sarettah]

Originally Posted by gonzo

1. Instead of falling for another membership drive by the FSC promising to save your content I recommend Eric Green's service at Remove Your Content.

Removeyourcontent offers adult content producers, webmasters and distributors a unique service to fight online media piracy. We do not publish client lists, actively solicit services or upsell through webmaster affiliate programs. Nearly all of our business has been by word of mouth, repeat and referals. If you are frustrated with online content theft and file-sharing, please consider our service to help you take back your copyrights!

[MikeSouth]

OK advertising on pornhub puts money directly into the pocket of a company that is doing it's best to fuck every honest adult webmaster in this biz. I took Jule Jordan to task for this and owned his ass.

I dont need money badly enough to accept a paid ad from brazzers or Adult Friend Finder or any number of others...I'd rather eat gruel than put any money in their pockets.

For me its even good business sense as well as ethical

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I don't mind a heathly debate of this but seems to me that you all think that it is a character issue and not a business consideration. Either way... I am open to discussion. Let's go.

pink visual I think sees it different
http://www.xbiz.com/news/117538

[Toby]

Originally Posted by tony404

pink visual I think sees it different
http://www.xbiz.com/news/117538

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by tony404

pink visual I think sees it different
http://www.xbiz.com/news/117538

I was about to say that the wager just went up a notch with that lawsuit.

I stand by my crash and burn prediction.

[softball]

Here is the way I see it Far-L........ Making money stealing other people's hard work (case in point Illegal tubes) is pure and simple theft. Any moron can get hot product and fence it. It makes you a thief. Maybe worse than a crack dealer, who at least pays for his product and if he steals it, runs a high risk of getting shot. If you do business with people who steal from others, you probably think you are at arm's length. I say you are encouraging bad behavior and are consciously involved in theft of other people's hard work.
When I read some of the when we stories on this thread, I kinda shake my head as well. You all seem to look back fondly on some very shady business practices. (some of which were down right illegal). A lot of this stuff is what killed the golden goose. It wasn't smart business at all. Personally, I have never participated in that dishonesty and am not about to start.
I detect a lot of desperation lately in the biz from both big and small companies. And apparently your solution is to dance with the devil. We may have had differences in the past, but I always respected you as a person. But now that the shit has hit the fan, perhaps true character surfaces. I hope I am wrong and you can convince us otherwise. I know I am just a voice in the wilderness.

[Far-L]

Toby - I don't recall you taking the same position when tgp and mgp raised the same questions. Now don't give me the "well it is whole movies" argument because as far as I am concerned any content that is used without permission is not ok. A surfer can jerk off to a single image just as easily as a 20 second low res clip or a full HD movie. The unfortunate fact is that content producers must police their own copyrights and trademarks and that requires eternal vigilence by the copyright holder. Your argument is just plain sophistry and is an emotional reaction rather than a logical determination. How does putting up my content solicit any sort of illicit use of content? How are you or I to know what is or is not being put up there with or without consent? If I see my content up there without permission then I have it fixed with our branded versions and they act with extreme promptness; in my experience, that means they are acting appropriately. I usually receive a result within MINUTES.

EJ - I will take your point much more seriously when we actually see a royalty report for that content of ours that just happens to also be used in your animated sig gif - btw... don't remember authorizing that usage but correct me if I am wrong since that deal is from years ago.

Mike South - I have to worry enough about our content and I am not about to take on yet another battle for this industry. You and I both know that we have our own responsibility to police our own marks. When we contact a tube about our unauthorized usage I base my criticism of them for or against on whether they respond to our remove request quickly and whether they accept our offer to work with authorized versions. Are we getting some sort of preferential treatment? I seriously doubt it. When I first sent emails to the "offenders" I was professional and direct and I often was responded to with compliments for being that way instead of coming at them with the typical tirades that many approach the situation with.

One thing I learned years ago "coming online" is not to believe what you see or hear. I remember freaking about password sites until I learned that the majority of those passwords were seeded by the programs themselves as a means of getting traffic. There is a strong possibility that a lot of so-called unauthorized content going up probably is being put up by programs.

Gonzo - I have heard nothing but great things about that service, thanks for throwing that in.

The truth here is that since the beginning of online adult marketing there has been a business model of free to pay conversion. Has it been abused? Yes. Is there a way for it to work? Yes. Is there going to be a perfect condition where no content goes up unauthorized? No. Does that mean that you can't still try to work with the situation? No, not at all, and like everything else in this world you just have to try to make the best of it.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Here is the way I see it Far-L........ Making money stealing other people's hard work (case in point Illegal tubes) is pure and simple theft. Any moron can get hot product and fence it. It makes you a thief. Maybe worse than a crack dealer, who at least pays for his product and if he steals it, runs a high risk of getting shot. If you do business with people who steal from others, you probably think you are at arm's length. I say you are encouraging bad behavior and are consciously involved in theft of other people's hard work.
When I read some of the when we stories on this thread, I kinda shake my head as well. You all seem to look back fondly on some very shady business practices. (some of which were down right illegal). A lot of this stuff is what killed the golden goose. It wasn't smart business at all. Personally, I have never participated in that dishonesty and am not about to start.
I detect a lot of desperation lately in the biz from both big and small companies. And apparently your solution is to dance with the devil. We may have had differences in the past, but I always respected you as a person. But now that the shit has hit the fan, perhaps true character surfaces. I hope I am wrong and you can convince us otherwise. I know I am just a voice in the wilderness.

I don't believe in content theft at all, nor was any of my recollections fond remembrances condoning the behaviours or business practices of those that went down in flames. I love that quote from Sun Tzu that runs something like "happiness is seeing the bodies of your enemies float by in the river". Will some of these companies be the companies of tomorrow that burn up in thier own greed? I hope so and I would actually bet on it.

You use phrases like "dance with the devil" and try to insinuate that I am somehow doing something innapropriate when the actuality is far from that. I work hard to protect our content and I have spent more time and money fighting for the rights of content producers in this industry than most, probably including you. The tubes owners we have worked with have been very proactive making sure that they are only working with legit material. I suppose you have some sort of inside information to the contrary? Share it then, or are you just content to just make accusations based on suppositions of entirely circumstantial evidence? That doesn't seem very ethical to me.

[softball]

So what you are saying is that the content thieves you work with are ok in your book because when they steal something, they give it back right away when asked. So buddy breaks into your house and steals your watch. Oops he gets caught and you say just give it back and thats the end of it. It sounds awfully like the guy that gets busted for speeding and he tells the cop that he was just keeping up with traffic. You lay down with thieves and pretty soon it sounds ethical. But it isn't. It has still fucked online business and you are doing more damage than any good you did fighting that Acacia thing which was a tempest in a teapot from the get go.
So, how does it feel to be one of the bad guys now that you are grown up? Fuck me, I hope I never get that old. Is Hannity on radio pre set?

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by tony404

pink visual I think sees it different
http://www.xbiz.com/news/117538

I would love to see this go all the way and settle the issue once and for all but what do you want to bet that there is a quick out of court settlement that puts Pink Visual up front and center on those sites?

[Toby]

Far-L, Wankability isn't the issue here, you've completely missed my whole point. Let me restate.

It's the existence of those long clips that is driving the traffic on these illegal tubes. Surfers visit Pornhub because of the existence of that stolen content. If the long clips weren't there then Pornhub would be no different than the hundreds of other tube sites with sponsor provided promo clips, and modest traffic volume.

As for your question, "How are you or I to know what is or is not being put up there with or without consent?" That's really not difficult at all. Do you see any links back to the originating site on most of that content? Are the watermarks still readable on the clips? The answer is no on the vast majority of the long clips. In addition, I've read comments by numerous producers stating that they've not authorized use of long clips on any site.

The bottom line is really quite clear and irrefutable. If you're doing biz with Pornhub et. al. then you're supporting content theft.

Originally Posted by Far-L

Toby - I don't recall you taking the same position when tgp and mgp raised the same questions. Now don't give me the "well it is whole movies" argument because as far as I am concerned any content that is used without permission is not ok. A surfer can jerk off to a single image just as easily as a 20 second low res clip or a full HD movie. The unfortunate fact is that content producers must police their own copyrights and trademarks and that requires eternal vigilence by the copyright holder. Your argument is just plain sophistry and is an emotional reaction rather than a logical determination. How does putting up my content solicit any sort of illicit use of content? How are you or I to know what is or is not being put up there with or without consent? If I see my content up there without permission then I have it fixed with our branded versions and they act with extreme promptness; in my experience, that means they are acting appropriately. I usually receive a result within MINUTES.

[softball]

I love that quote from Sun Tzu that runs something like "happiness is seeing the bodies of your enemies float by in the river"

Could have just as easily come from "The Godfather".

[softball]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I would love to see this go all the way and settle the issue once and for all but what do you want to bet that there is a quick out of court settlement that puts Pink Visual up front and center on those sites?

Far-L I have to say its kinda sad to see you making so many excuses.....

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I would love to see this go all the way and settle the issue once and for all but what do you want to bet that there is a quick out of court settlement that puts Pink Visual up front and center on those sites?

Many of us will agree on this point that your probably right.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by Far-L

I would love to see this go all the way and settle the issue once and for all but what do you want to bet that there is a quick out of court settlement that puts Pink Visual up front and center on those sites?

yeah I can see that.

[softball]

Originally Posted by tony404

yeah I can see that.

I sort of get it, but its not a matter of settling any issue, its a matter of stopping piracy....theft of assets...once and for all. Everything else is just double speak. Karl Rove 101

[bluemoney]

[Toby]

Originally Posted by bluemoney

Jerry wishes he had that kind of traffic volume.

[EmporerEJ]

Far-L
You mis-understand, my message in response to the mood change was in defense Of YOU.

I thought you posted a perfectly open and friendly thread, and it was quickly turned into something nasty, very quick. And it wasn't warranted.

I was about to say, and will say, I think you can do whatever you want with YOUR content, and any clown that complains about it should confine themselves to any content, they themselves created.

Please contact me via private message with a current direct contact info.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Far-L
You mis-understand, my message in response to the mood change was in defense Of YOU.

I thought you posted a perfectly open and friendly thread, and it was quickly turned into something nasty, very quick. And it wasn't warranted.

I was about to say, and will say, I think you can do whatever you want with YOUR content, and any clown that complains about it should confine themselves to any content, they themselves created.

Please contact me via private message with a current direct contact info.

So I can put you down in the column under "supports content theft" as well.

This is far more complex than just doing what you want with your own content. This is a case of exploiting stolen content (or more precisely the traffic generated by the unauthorized use of that stolen content) for financial gain. Personally, I don't need the money badly enough to crawl in bed with thieves.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Toby

So I can put you down in the column under "supports content theft" as well.

This is far more complex than just doing what you want with your own content. This is a case of exploiting stolen content (or more precisely the traffic generated by the unauthorized use of that stolen content) for financial gain. Personally, I don't need the money badly enough to crawl in bed with thieves.

No, thank you Toby, you can't put words in my mouth. I don't accept your premise. It's exactly like I said. I know FAR-L and the Homegrown people would have nothing to do with theft, and because they may have made a legit deal with someone about their content, doesn't make them "supporting everything else that party may or MAY NOT do." (I honestly don't know the other people, and frankly, don't care to.)
They aren't answerable to you for their content, or how they want to market their product. I haven't checked, but I'll bet it's their name on the electric Bill.

Next, you'll say, because I wrote a few articles for a magazine, I was somehow responsible for an ad for one of the crooked vendors that may have appeared in the same issue with something I wrote?

While the rest of the industry stood around pulling Their collective pud, homegrown stood up against Acacia with their own money. I remember that one, do you? Everyone was hiding under the blankets and hoping Acacia wouldn't notice their website, while these guys went out and Kicked Acacia's ass.
On THEIR dime. (and they're STILL paying.) EVERYONE in ANY kind of streaming business OWES THEM.
The entire streaming video WORLD (not just adult,) benefited from their efforts. And if you can't see that, then man, I feel sorry for you.

And still, the "armchair legal minds" sat around on boards spouting off about how much bullshit it was. But they said it quietly, from under cover.
Not a whole lot of folks sending them checks, or joining the fight.
I for one, am VERY grateful.

If I knew nothing else about the Homegrown folks, that would be enough of a character statement to squelch any thought as to their "intentions."

I don't know what it is that's made you so bitter recently, but after knowing your words for so many years to be level headed, I gotta tell you, I've been wondering.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

So what you are saying is that the content thieves you work with are ok in your book because when they steal something, they give it back right away when asked. So buddy breaks into your house and steals your watch. Oops he gets caught and you say just give it back and thats the end of it. It sounds awfully like the guy that gets busted for speeding and he tells the cop that he was just keeping up with traffic. You lay down with thieves and pretty soon it sounds ethical. But it isn't. It has still fucked online business and you are doing more damage than any good you did fighting that Acacia thing which was a tempest in a teapot from the get go.
So, how does it feel to be one of the bad guys now that you are grown up? Fuck me, I hope I never get that old. Is Hannity on radio pre set?

You are another sophist. All you are doing is making colorful and insulting analogies that may or may not fitly describe the situation... but you sound clever making them I will give you that... no matter how insulting they are.

Didn't you used to go buy a different name in the amateur masters board heydey? Why did you change it? I find that... highly... suspicious.

You call Acacia a tempest in a teapot? Then for one that proves how little you know and basically reveals how seriously you should be considered in your opinion. Tell that to Time Warner, AOL, or any of the other parties in the case and see if they agree with you.

You only are trying to disparage me with highly personal attacks just like back in the day. Some things never change. Working with the tubes we work with doesn't make me "bad". You may not agree with it but you have yet to make one real point that makes one iota of sense on deeper inspection.

For example, let me take your silly crack analogy and twist it another way... who is more ethical, the dealer that sells uncut product in a free society where drugs are legal or the cop that plants drugs on a suspect to make a bust in a society where those same drugs are illegal? I see you as the dirty cop.

I have never condoned stealing content and for any of you to infer otherwise is just plain wrong.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by Toby

Far-L, Wankability isn't the issue here, you've completely missed my whole point. Let me restate.

It's the existence of those long clips that is driving the traffic on these illegal tubes. Surfers visit Pornhub because of the existence of that stolen content. If the long clips weren't there then Pornhub would be no different than the hundreds of other tube sites with sponsor provided promo clips, and modest traffic volume.

As for your question, "How are you or I to know what is or is not being put up there with or without consent?" That's really not difficult at all. Do you see any links back to the originating site on most of that content? Are the watermarks still readable on the clips? The answer is no on the vast majority of the long clips. In addition, I've read comments by numerous producers stating that they've not authorized use of long clips on any site.

The bottom line is really quite clear and irrefutable. If you're doing biz with Pornhub et. al. then you're supporting content theft.

Actually you are the one missing the point and I would have figured that you would not need it spelled out, but since that is not the case I will do my best to make it simple and clear enough for you to understand.

You and I both know that tgp started with stolen content and mgp as well. You also know that both of those changed in due course due to changing trends in the industry - namely, copyright holders policed their content more and the main purveyors of those traffic pumps changed to be compliant with legalities or face litigation... Now if I am not mistaken, you used to use tgp/mgp to get traffic, correct me if I am wrong, but who did you work with if that was or still is the case? Were all of them squeaky clean from day one? I bet not. In fact, none of them still are because the fact remains that despite their best efforts unauthorized content still gets posted time and again. Or maybe you worked with top list trade scripts? Well, all of those were sorely misused and abused so did that make you a crook because you supported that and did your best to use them in an honest fashion? So what does that make everyone that used or continues to use those advertising methods? Crooks? Tell that to every program out there and see what kind of response you get.

Maybe when you guys get away from trying to accuse me of being dishonest and unethical then something more intelligent can enrich this discussion.

[Far-L]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

No, thank you Toby, you can't put words in my mouth. I don't accept your premise. It's exactly like I said. I know FAR-L and the Homegrown people would have nothing to do with theft, and because they may have made a legit deal with someone about their content, doesn't make them "supporting everything else that party may or MAY NOT do." (I honestly don't know the other people, and frankly, don't care to.)
They aren't answerable to you for their content, or how they want to market their product. I haven't checked, but I'll bet it's their name on the electric Bill.

Next, you'll say, because I wrote a few articles for a magazine, I was somehow responsible for an ad for one of the crooked vendors that may have appeared in the same issue with something I wrote?

While the rest of the industry stood around pulling Their collective pud, homegrown stood up against Acacia with their own money. I remember that one, do you? Everyone was hiding under the blankets and hoping Acacia wouldn't notice their website, while these guys went out and Kicked Acacia's ass.
On THEIR dime. (and they're STILL paying.) EVERYONE in ANY kind of streaming business OWES THEM.
The entire streaming video WORLD (not just adult,) benefited from their efforts. And if you can't see that, then man, I feel sorry for you.

And still, the "armchair legal minds" sat around on boards spouting off about how much bullshit it was. But they said it quietly, from under cover.
Not a whole lot of folks sending them checks, or joining the fight.
I for one, am VERY grateful.

If I knew nothing else about the Homegrown folks, that would be enough of a character statement to squelch any thought as to their "intentions."

I don't know what it is that's made you so bitter recently, but after knowing your words for so many years to be level headed, I gotta tell you, I've been wondering.

Much appreciated, EJ, i apologize for knocking on you previously. You are still good people in my book... no matter what Thrillhammer says about you. ;-)

[Toby]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Maybe when you guys get away from trying to accuse me of being dishonest and unethical then something more intelligent can enrich this discussion.

Far-L, you can justify this in your own mind any way you wish, but the fact is that you are doing business with content thieves who are exploiting the traffic generated by the unauthoriized use of stolen content for financial gain. This isn't just my opinion, but based on numerous public discsussions on multiple boards over the last several years it's the prevailing opinion within the industry.

What TGP/MGP did in the distant past is irrelevant. And for the record, I've never knowingly traded traffic with other TGPs that were using stolen content. There hasn't been much stolen content on TGP's in many many years.

What is relevant is what Pornhub is doing today.

I can see you're too deeply invested in your position at this point to change it, so there is but one thing left for me to do. I shall add Homegrown to my blacklisted sponsors alongside Brazzers, AFF, Dee's Evil Empire, Incredible Dollars,Twistys, Kink.com and some others. I will not promote, nor will I accept galleries from others that promote these sponsors. I'm just one small webmaster, but I know there are others that feel the same about doing biz with Pornhub.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Far-L

Much appreciated, EJ, i apologize for knocking on you previously. You are still good people in my book... no matter what Thrillhammer says about you. ;-)

He's just mad 'cause he's gotta drag that damn heavy chair all over the place......and I looked better on TV.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

I don't know what it is that's made you so bitter recently, but after knowing your words for so many years to be level headed, I gotta tell you, I've been wondering.

I'm not bitter, nor have I changed my views. The only thing that is different is that I am a bit more outspoken.

You're the only one in this thread defending Far-L's position. That in itself speaks volumes.

[RawAlex]

The easiest way to see the effects of long clip tubes sites on the business is to look at what those sites are selling. Hint: They ain't selling porn.

What they are doing is turning porn into the throwaway, the gimmie, the gimmick that gets people in the door. It isn't what they are intending to sell. They are trying to sell dating, cams, and just about any well paying scam of the month.

If their intention was to sell porn, they would do it with short clips. When they are putting up long clips, full scenes, or full scenes split over a couple of files you know that their intention isn't to sell porn.

So every time you allow a video of yours to run on one of these sites, you are teaching more people not to pay for porn (it's a freebie!) and you are degrading the value of your content and back catalog with it.

Short term, you might see some sales, but in the long run, a whole generation is learning not to pay.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Toby

I'm not bitter, nor have I changed my views. The only thing that is different is that I am a bit more outspoken.

You're the only one in this thread defending Far-L's position. That in itself speaks volumes.

You've always been outspoken. And usually, level headed. And for years, I've respected your opinion. But in this case, I guess we just disagree. And there is nothing wrong with people disagreeing, I suppose.

You bet I support Far-l. Character counts. And in the last 11 years of the online biz that I've known Far-l, I know he's a standup guy, honest, and very helpful to the industry. As is his brother, and Spike.

And even if I didn't personally KNOW about their character, I would still be on the "content creator/owner's" side on this.
It is, very simply, the golden rule. "he who holds the gold, makes the golden rule."
It's Their product. THEY aren't doing anything wrong, except marketing their product in a way that has somehow tripped the "Toby moral alarm."

I don't know about the tube people, maybe they did what they are accused of. But I don't have an opinion, because they are just a company accused of something.
There is alot of that going around with these tube people...all of them. The big guys too. and with direct interaction.....ie, they own the site(s.) Why aren't you railing against them?

I didn't see one of them on your list.

So, if you want to say my defense of Far-L speaks something?
You bet. I'll take that. With Honor.

I don't agree with your interpretation of what it means, but I'll stand with them.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

The big guys too. and with direct interaction.....ie, they own the site(s.) Why aren't you railing against them?

I have no idea who you're referring to. Brazzers is on the list. They're the owners of Pornhub, Tube8, Keezmovies and Extremetube. If you're aware of other major sponsors/producers that own/operate illegal tube sites then by all means name them and show me the evidence they're connected. I'll add them to my blacklist.

Not every sponsor on my blacklist is there for the same reason. In fact most are there due to overly aggressive pre-checked cross sales.