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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM-->| QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM) | |
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12-18-2004
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#53
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Members
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Great Southern Land
Posts: 986
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 02:26 AM
and CTB...
10,000 shaved to 8,000 is just unambitious!! ;-))
Shaving 101
You turn up the shave everyday a lil bit.
When they howl you say "OMFG!! thats ridiculous, let me credit you X and look into it"
You then turn the shave down 10-20%....then you slowly turn it up agaim...rinse and repeat...
There are I believe instances of people being shaved 90% and STILL thanking the program owner cause his CHECK was bigger there than at the last place!!
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I'm not unambitious, and I DO know all about it, I just fucking hate it. It's wrong,
But if someone is stupid enough to send traffic to something where anyone with half a clue KNOWS the numbers are just unsupportable, well, that is the CRUX of the problem.
Funny you give the example of the dickhead webmaster - it's not just the small ones...
I remember a mutual friend telling me the story of once a long time ago when a certain webmaster sending him traffic got 1000 joins in a week and was so stoked he flew them overseas for a 3 day bender of wine, women and song to thank them.
The question was posed as to what that webmaster would have done for them if he wasn't being shaved at 80% when he got the 1000.
Would ge a fucking hilarious story if it wasn't true.
Every industry evolves, and this one has grown up a shitload in the 5 years I have been dancing around, but it has a long way to go. Or not. Depends on your viewpoint I suppose.
I am not greedy and I just try and be the type of sponsor I wish I had when I was pushing shit uphill.
And I won't shave ANYONE knowingly.....
On the processors, some are more obvious than others in how they do it, not only is that level the "best" as you call it, it is the EASIEST. By far.
I a man of few principles and fewer morals, but those that I do have do NOT get bent.
And my original offer is a standing one.
 h34r:
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12-18-2004
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#54
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Members
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Great Southern Land
Posts: 986
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vick@Dec 19 2004, 03:33 AM
Psss ....
How many time do I have to tell you ALL PROGRAMS SHAVE!!
CBT - Not picking on you but will use you as an example
You use CCBill to process, you have an unintentional shave
CCBill uses a cookie based tracking system, approximately 10% (or less) of surfers have their cookies turned off
There's your unintentional shave
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Vic, if you read my post I already said that was our weakness.
h34r:
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12-18-2004
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#55
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Members
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Great Southern Land
Posts: 986
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 03:31 AM
CTB,
I admire your principles. Could you sell me some? ;-))))
I made fortunes with and for Serge and Scotty.
Did they shave me?
FUCK YEAH!!!
Hard and often!!! How do I know? They fucking gloat to me over it!!! LOL
But there checks were bigger than anyone elses.
So what does that say?
;-))
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Don't be so certain that you don;t have more principles than me Nick. Being a nice guy is a relatively recent status quo in terms of my 37 years on the planet.
Evil is as evil does - and another pet hate is people who use that line who, face-to-face, haven't got a real evil bone in their body !!
Anyhoo, I digress.
What other real options did you have way back when?
I should say, I don't begrudge any of the old school ANYTHING - In fact, I admire the guts and hard work it took to grab the opportunities with both hands and shake the shit out of it.
Pioneers in ANY industry have the luxury, nay, the RIGHT, to do things the way they want to, irrespective of whether that be good, bad or indifferent.
Those who have the cajones to do the hardest yards in the early days have the God given right to do things the way they see fit, and more power to them for that.
How many of us would be here if it wasn't for the work put in developing this industry by the likes of Scotty, Serge, yourself and others back in those days? I never forget that.
The point I make, and to steal a line oft stated by Serge, it is not 1999 anymore.
Times change and every business evolves.
And as I have said above, all we can do is TRY to make things different or better, again depending on your perspective.
h34r:
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12-18-2004
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#56
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Members
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Great Southern Land
Posts: 986
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 19 2004, 03:41 AM-->| QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 19 2004, 03:41 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 18 2004, 10:13 AM
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12-18-2004
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#57
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Hospitality Supervisor
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,338
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This discussion is BS ;-)
A good businessman cares about only one thing and that is the bottom line.
If a sponsor program paying $35 on $1 signups and credits for exit consoles shaves 30% you will still make more money than with a program that pays $35 on $29.95 memberships with no trial and no exits.
Some sites also convert much better than others, a shaving sponsor with great sites might earn you more than a goody two shoes sponsor who doesn't understand how to close the sale.
At the end of the day who shaves or who doesn't and if it's wrong or not is totally irrelevant, the only relevant thing is the size of the check you get for a certain banner slot.
Greedy business, not whiney bitches! ;-))
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12-19-2004
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#58
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Easy Like Sunday Morning
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Behind a couch, somewhere in Philly
Posts: 7,628
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Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.
Almost anything can be cheated as well.
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12-19-2004
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#59
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 18 2004, 09:37 PM
Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.
Almost anything can be cheated as well.
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Thank you.
See "Nicks First Laws of Traffic" above ;-)))
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12-19-2004
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#60
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by gonzo@Dec 19 2004, 01:42 PM
Of course you can just run a program wand refuse to pay people for cheating and spend your time scouring your incoming traffic for any infraction and refuse to pay.
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thats always a good one 
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12-19-2004
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#61
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Fat Fucking Nobody
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Atlanta,Ga.
Posts: 17,795
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Of course you can just run a program wand refuse to pay people for cheating and spend your time scouring your incoming traffic for any infraction and refuse to pay.
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage." "Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson "The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
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12-19-2004
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#62
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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You keep taking the traffic...
you just don't pay
;-)))
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12-19-2004
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#63
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Hospitality Supervisor
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,338
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 19 2004, 04:03 PM-->| QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 19 2004, 04:03 PM) | |
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12-19-2004
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#64
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Hospitality Supervisor
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 2,338
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 10:31 PM
You keep taking the traffic...
you just don't pay
;-)))
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yeah that one worked for a while...
of course I have NEVER done anything like that!! ;-))
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12-20-2004
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#65
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Members
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Great Southern Land
Posts: 986
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 19 2004, 03:37 PM
Anything can be shaved -- even something "shave-proof" -- IF someone REALLY wants to shave.
Almost anything can be cheated as well.
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The ability to do something, the motivation and/or inclination do do it, and the actual perpetration of it are three VERY different things.
h34r:
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12-20-2004
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#66
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Members
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 354
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Nick
i might be naive and i might be dumb, but we dont shave and we never will, even if we could we wouldnt.
We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
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12-20-2004
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#67
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Prostate Examiner
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: good 'ole USA
Posts: 21,018
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Quote:
Originally posted by Meat@Dec 20 2004, 06:22 AM
Nick
i might be naive and i might be dumb, but we dont shave and we never will, even if we could we wouldnt.
We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
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Meat,
I didn't know numbers 1:50 still exist....
are you sure it's not 1:5000...after shave?
;-))))
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12-20-2004
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#68
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Members
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 354
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LOL Serge
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12-20-2004
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#69
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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Meat congrats on having affiliates that do filter/target their traffic - probably means you have less support per affiliate, than the programs that attracts the masses ;-)))
__________________
"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
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12-20-2004
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#70
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Meat@Dec 20 2004, 03:22 AM
Nick
i might be naive and i might be dumb, but we dont shave and we never will, even if we could we wouldnt.
We have people sending traffic to netpondcash converting at better than 1:50 so if we were gonna shave, those numbers wouldnt exist.
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maybe Aga just isn't telling you!!!
;-)))
h34r: h34r: h34r:
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12-20-2004
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#71
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dravyk+Dec 20 2004, 11:05 AM-->| QUOTE (Dravyk @ Dec 20 2004, 11:05 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM
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12-20-2004
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#72
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Members
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 354
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Aga tells me everything
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12-20-2004
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#73
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Easy Like Sunday Morning
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Behind a couch, somewhere in Philly
Posts: 7,628
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Quote:
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM-->| QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM) | |
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12-20-2004
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#74
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Members
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,581
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EVERY program has at least an unintentional shave. The fact that its the internet is the cause of that. Surfers without cookies on, data that gets dropped in transmission, glitches in stats and so forth. There's simply no way around it.
One post that totally blows me away in this thread was the one that referred to upsells, cross sells and the like giving some sort of additional compensation to the original referrer.
HELLO? Put the crack pipe down. If the original referrer is supposed to continue getting paid out down the line then the ONLY people that should be getting checks are the owners of search engines, link lists and tgps, since that's where the traffic originates. However, I don't see Tommy's Bookmarks or Persian Kitty or even Google sticking their hand out after the fact to collect more money off a signup...
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12-20-2004
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#75
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Cramming 3 people in a Room to Attend Show
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 5,306
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Quote:
Originally posted by Timon+Dec 18 2004, 08:50 AM-->| QUOTE (Timon @ Dec 18 2004, 08:50 AM) |
__________________
Think horses, not zebras.
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12-20-2004
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#76
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Celebrating Company's Success with A Beer From Mini Bar
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Little South of Sanity
Posts: 6,551
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Dec 20 2004, 01:48 PM-->| QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Dec 20 2004, 01:48 PM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by Dravyk@Dec 20 2004, 11:05 AM
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12-20-2004
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#77
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by *KK*@Dec 20 2004, 04:03 PM
EVERY program has at least an unintentional shave. The fact that its the internet is the cause of that. Surfers without cookies on, data that gets dropped in transmission, glitches in stats and so forth. There's simply no way around it.
One post that totally blows me away in this thread was the one that referred to upsells, cross sells and the like giving some sort of additional compensation to the original referrer.
HELLO? Put the crack pipe down. If the original referrer is supposed to continue getting paid out down the line then the ONLY people that should be getting checks are the owners of search engines, link lists and tgps, since that's where the traffic originates. However, I don't see Tommy's Bookmarks or Persian Kitty or even Google sticking their hand out after the fact to collect more money off a signup...
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hahaha, I remember making that argument to a newbie a couple years ago...they bitched about not being paid on upsells, etc. and I explained I would be more than happy to pay them a % on those if they would be so kind as to pay a % to the hun, tommy and greenguy, where they got their traffic from...for some reason, they didn't seem to like that idea....
another "unintenional shave" isn't so much a shave as a sale being credited to someone else: if you send a surfer to a site that he's already visited and he signs up, his signup cookie would still be credited to the original sender and even though he came from your site, he would be credited to another affiliate.
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12-20-2004
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#78
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Call me a cynic..
but..
I'd be more inclined to send traffic to the guy that says :
"Mate , you know I have to shave you , but your wire will be bigger than anyone else will send you and it'll be on time."
Then the guy that says
"I swear , I really really will not shave you at all , in anyway"
I think the first method works on those 5 -10 good webmasters you want.
I think the second method works on the 2000 sheep.
but thats just mho
And remember the only time I think I am not being shaved is when I send my own traffic to my own paysites and even then I'm not sure , cause I'm so crooked I might be shaving myself!!!
;-)))
I also fucking look at processors shifty eyed.
They must be able to shave too.....
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12-20-2004
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#79
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Scored VIP to Anton's Piss Tank
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,781
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy+Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM-->| QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM) | |
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12-20-2004
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#80
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by slavdogg+Dec 20 2004, 03:50 PM-->| QUOTE (slavdogg @ Dec 20 2004, 03:50 PM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Dec 20 2004, 08:17 AM
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12-20-2004
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#81
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 539
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Dec 20 2004, 03:00 PM-->| QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Dec 20 2004, 03:00 PM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM
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12-20-2004
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#82
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Scored VIP to Anton's Piss Tank
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,781
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lee+Dec 20 2004, 06:12 PM-->| QUOTE (Lee @ Dec 20 2004, 06:12 PM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by TheEnforcer@Dec 20 2004, 03:00 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM
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12-20-2004
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#83
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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There no homophobes on this board!!
Well except , Lee.
;-)))
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12-20-2004
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#84
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Members
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Great Southern Land
Posts: 986
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dravyk+Dec 21 2004, 05:05 AM-->| QUOTE (Dravyk @ Dec 21 2004, 05:05 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy@Dec 20 2004, 06:05 AM
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12-20-2004
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#85
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 1,997
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Dec 20 2004, 08:17 AM-->| QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Dec 20 2004, 08:17 AM) |
__________________
 
Do you like Wine ?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Nickatilynx
Morals are a convenient excuse to rationalise failure...
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12-20-2004
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#86
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by TheEnforcer+Dec 20 2004, 06:00 PM-->| QUOTE (TheEnforcer @ Dec 20 2004, 06:00 PM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Dec 20 2004, 04:46 PM
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12-20-2004
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#87
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vick@Dec 20 2004, 04:43 PM
webhamsters
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ahahahahaha GREAT WORD!!!
ahahahahahahahaha
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12-20-2004
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#88
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 539
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 20 2004, 02:52 PM
I also fucking look at processors shifty eyed.
They must be able to shave too.....
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You know..
Thats something that we were thinking about several months ago.
Unfortunately, we work in the only business where it is pretty damn near impossible not to rely on any third party. Whether that be content providers, photographers, designers, hosts, processors, other webmasters etc etc.
Somewhere along the line, someone is going to be stitching you up *somewhere* its a law of nature.
As for the processors, it would be SO easy for them to shave its unreal, a sale here, a sale there and, to some extent, thy actually do shave openly..
Just look at this for ne real easy method..
https://shopping.ccbill.com/search.cgi
Wouldnt take much of anything to shave based on that system.
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12-20-2004
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#89
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Members
Join Date: May 2004
Location: The Great Southern Land
Posts: 986
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Isn't a discussion about shaving your nutsack more your thing? :P
that's another board entirely ;-)
I have already openly admitted we do intentionally shave....
Our boys.
Need to reinforce that here again just to get a rise out of the homophobes.
He he.
h34r:
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12-20-2004
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#90
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by slavdogg@Dec 20 2004, 05:15 PM
bottom line revshare programs dont make webmasters more money than PPS
If in rare cases where they do, it takes 5-8+ months to see the results.
and you can take that to the bank 
Sykk, if you want me to send you some traffic still waiting on your reply
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revshare????
I'd rather have the money now thanks rather than gamble on , amonst other things , the processor not taking a shit , 3 mths in.
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12-20-2004
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#91
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Celebrating Company's Success with A Beer From Mini Bar
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Little South of Sanity
Posts: 6,551
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Quote:
Originally posted by CuriousToyBoy+Dec 18 2004, 08:19 PM-->| QUOTE (CuriousToyBoy @ Dec 18 2004, 08:19 PM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 19 2004, 03:41 AM
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12-20-2004
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#92
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Banned
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 539
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Dec 20 2004, 03:32 PM
Well except , Lee.
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You know, there actually is some truth to that but, thats another story
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12-20-2004
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#93
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Vick+Dec 20 2004, 07:43 PM--> | | | |
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