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Originally posted by Buff@Mar 18 2004, 10:32 AM You know, the left has been telling us there was no link between Iraq and al-Qaida, but apparently al-Qaida disagrees. They attacked Spain for supporting the US in the Invasion of Iraq.
Regardless, the Spanish decided to appease the terrorists.
Is it any wonder Hitler rolled through Europe? What a bunch of abject pussies.
I think al hates the USA occupying a country there
still NO TIE with HUssein and Bin Laden
sorry try again righy
The Poles have the misfortune of being the mom and pop general store located in between K-Mart and Wal-Mart - it's all in the numbers.
I dunno about that "cowards" bit - they sent horse mounted calvalry against the German tank corps. The logical question that brings up is "Where is the line between valiant bravery and absolute stupidity?", but that's for another time.
Buff's initial assumption - that Hitler rolled through Europe because Europeans are pussies - is almost as superficial as his assumption about the Spanish elections. That the French were overly cautious cannot be disputed - the failure to destroy Hitler when Germany reoccupied the Rhineland because they could not get British backing was a grave mistake. That the tactical decisions made by the French High Command (hiding behind the wall, as opposed to reading the works of one French Col. DeGaulle's treatise on tank warfare that the Germans certainly paid attention to) was absolute folly cannot be questioned, either.
However (and in no particular order) - the inability of Great Britian to meet their military obligations (thus causing Munich), the relative population differences between France and Germany, the devastating effects of having fought the bulk of the western front fighting in WWI on French soil, the traitorous effect that Nazi sympathizers and other right-wingers had on the goverment and the French public, and above all, the absolute unwillingness of the French and British to negotiate in good failth with the USSR, all played as much of a role in the fate of Europe in 1940 as any inherent "pussy" qualities that the Eurpoeans may possess.
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Originally posted by dig420@Mar 18 2004, 10:40 AM Idiots can sit on barstools, talk about killing Muslims and vote for Bush all they want, but the only way terrorism will be defanged is thru statemanship, diplomacy, an exploration of root causes and a reasonable resolution. Thus it has ever been, thus it ever will be.
Unless we kill them ALL.
That works with enemies and threats who share the same logical paradigm. People willing to sacrifice their life in the hopes of gifts in the afterlife don't have a common basis for engagement with western logic; namely self-preservation. The western perspective, no matter how many liberals want to espouse understanding of our enemies, is totally foreign to Islamic terrorists and they have no desire to understand the western world view, because it's "evil". It’s absolutely amazing, people will argue about the oppression of homosexuals not being afforded the opportunity marry yet hope to understand people who stone women to death for infidelity.
The US and USSR were at each other's throats for decades, but no one pulled the trigger and no one sent a suicide bomber because self-preservation ruled. There is no vehicle for diplomacy when there is no basis for rational debate and when world views are so diametrically opposed, no basis exists. Understand the root causes all you want. It won’t change the fact that academic debate with individuals who seek to destroy you and consider it a holy thing to die in the process, will never provide any meaningful results.
Is it fair to criticise a countries reluctance for fighting WWII when they had just finished picking up the pieces from WWI? Is it fair as someone who had not been there and experienced the devistation of WWI to criticise the actions of those who were?
Believe it or not, every single muslim isn't standing in line to kill himself for the cause, and there have been PLENTY of Christians willing to kill themselves in the line of duty.
They're a dirt culture, they're shit, I hate them. So what? That doesn't change a fucking thing. You still have to get to the root cause of what's causing the problem and deal with it. I don't like the fucking Turks either but they're our pals, aren't they?
and besides Aeon, I remember Labret FUCKING YOU UP in thread after thread and you never learned anything or changed your position no matter how bad it was shredded, which means any conversation with you is a total waste of keystrokes.
Originally posted by dig420@Mar 18 2004, 02:39 PM and besides Aeon, I remember Labret FUCKING YOU UP in thread after thread and you never learned anything or changed your position no matter how bad it was shredded, which means any conversation with you is a total waste of keystrokes.
incorrect, Aeon expressed himself quite eloquently and right to the point.
I said Islamic terrorists, not every muslim in the whole world.
And who - what...fucking me up how, for bringing out the big guns and not dumbing individuals like you along? I need to work on my sadism skills. No one's perfect but punching bags exist for a reason.
There's a certain sense of irony when you use a phrase such as 'dumbing individuals like (me) along'. First, your sentence makes no fucking sense as a reply to what I said, which isn't unexpected. Second, you were beaten logically, comprehensively and thoroughly on every point you tried to make (over and over and over again) but you didn't have the mental agility to acknowledge a lost point and make a new one. You continue to try to breathe life into a dead horse, which makes you uninteresting as an opponent.
And Serge doesn't like you or think you had a good point, he's just trying to keep the post count up.
Originally posted by JR@Mar 18 2004, 02:33 PM Is it fair to criticise a countries reluctance for fighting WWII when they had just finished picking up the pieces from WWI? Is it fair as someone who had not been there and experienced the devistation of WWI to criticise the actions of those who were?
Only if you are a "rite-thinken-'merickin."
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Originally posted by dig420@Mar 18 2004, 02:50 PM There's a certain sense of irony when you use a phrase such as 'dumbing individuals like (me) along'. First, your sentence makes no fucking sense as a reply to what I said, which isn't unexpected. Second, you were beaten logically, comprehensively and thoroughly on every point you tried to make (over and over and over again) but you didn't have the mental agility to acknowledge a lost point and make a new one. You continue to try to breathe life into a dead horse, which makes you uninteresting as an opponent.
And Serge doesn't like you or think you had a good point, he's just trying to keep the post count up.
Dig,
I made more posts today at PC than here...
I don't give a fuck about post counts, despite the popular believes,
we are selling Oprano to Meat and Aga next week,
why do you think I go to meet them?
as fro Aeon,
once again, he beat your arguments VERY impressive,
and now you don't know how to retort and thsi explains your post
Serge is irrelevant to this - he expressed his opinion. I responded to you. Demonstrate how my sentences make no sense and how they were logically defeated on every point please?
Your response that Labret shredded me, this is actually interesting - possibly I missed something but I don't think I've ever pissed or even actually debated him...help a board pisser out here?
Originally posted by dig420@Mar 18 2004, 12:08 PM
and you really believe that the Middle East is made up of serial killers and mass murderers exclusively?
no. we are not talking about the average joe. we are talking about people who kill innocent people in the name of religion.
so how is this addressing my point that you can't just go in and kill everybody like Conan and expect this problem to be solved?
if you're saying that people like this can't be reasoned with, you're probably right. You have to find out what's going on in that country/culture that is incubating people like this, and fix whatever is causing that.
or are you advocating nuking the country breeding the terrorists?
Originally posted by dig420@Mar 18 2004, 12:14 PM so how is this addressing my point that you can't just go in and kill everybody like Conan and expect this problem to be solved?
damn...it must suck to be the left wing version of buff...put the fucking bong down - you're living proof of why pot is illegal.
I'll just have to refer back to my original opinion of you, which hasn't been changed with this thread. You're a waste of keystrokes, you have nothing to offer, and I've already spent too much time with you. If you have nothing but insults in your arsenal you need to take it to GFY.
Originally posted by dig420@Mar 18 2004, 12:14 PM so how is this addressing my point that you can't just go in and kill everybody like Conan and expect this problem to be solved?
if you're saying that people like this can't be reasoned with, you're probably right. You have to find out what's going on in that country/culture that is incubating people like this, and fix whatever is causing that.
or are you advocating nuking the country breeding the terrorists?
no one is saying "kill everybody". if a country that is "breeding terrorists" like Afghanistan was, then i advocate doing exactly what was done. After 4-5 years of failed attempts to engage the government and curb their behavior... remove them and at the same time send a stern warning to others with similar aspirations.
right now, today, it's extremely difficult to be a terrorist. it's difficult to move around, difficult to communicate, difficult to train, difficult to find safe harbor, difficult to finance and move money around. it is becoming more difficult with each passing day.... more so than at any point in history.
i believe that terrorism will go away when intense pressure remains on all these facets of terrorism while at the same time, it becomes increasingly clear that the costs of terrorism or associating with terrorists are greater than the rewards.
Originally posted by Buff@Mar 18 2004, 07:32 AM You know, the left has been telling us there was no link between Iraq and al-Qaida, but apparently al-Qaida disagrees. They attacked Spain for supporting the US in the Invasion of Iraq.
Regardless, the Spanish decided to appease the terrorists.
Is it any wonder Hitler rolled through Europe? What a bunch of abject pussies.
Buffy-poo, without a doubt you are the biggest fucking moron on this board.
Go back to fucking whores, historical and political analysis isn't working for you.
Verdun. Just that name was enough to make Frenchmen and Germans, the few who survived it, wake up yelling for years afterward. The French lost 1.5 million men out of a total population of 40 million fighting the Germans from 1914-1918. A lot of those guys died charging German machine-gun nests with bayonets. I'd really like to see one of you office smartasses joke about "surrender monkeys" with a French soldier, 1914 vintage. You'd piss your dockers.
Shit, we strut around like we're so tough and we can't even handle a few uppity Iraqi villages. These guys faced the Germans head on for five years, and we call them cowards? And at the end, it was the Germans, not the French, who said "calf rope."
Tours, 732 AD: The Muslims had already taken Spain and were well on their way to taking the rest of Europe. The only power with a chance of stopping them was the French army under Charles "the Hammer" Martel, King of the Franks (French), who answered to the really cool nickname "the Hammer of God." It was the French who saved the continent's ass. All the smart money was on the Muslims: there were 60,000 of them, crazy Jihadis whose cavalry was faster and deadlier than any in Europe. The French army was heavily outnumbered and had no cavalry. Fighting in phalanxes, they held against dozens of cavalry charges and after at least two days of hand-to-hand combat, finally managed to hack their way to the Muslim center and kill their commander. The Muslims retreated to Spain, and Europe developed as an independent civilization.
Orleans, May 1429: Joan of Arc: is she the most insanely cool military commander in history or what? This French peasant girl gets instructions from her favorite saints to help out the French against the English invaders. She goes to the King (well, the Dauphin, but close enough) and tells him to give her the army and she'll take it from there. And somehow she convinces him. She takes the army, which has lost every battle it's been in lately, to Orleans, which is under English siege. Now Joan is a nice girl, so she tries to settle things peaceably. She explains in a letter to the enemy commanders that everything can still be cool, "...provided you give up France...and go back to your own countries, for God's sake. And if you do not, wait for the Maid, who will visit you briefly to your great sorrow." The next day she put on armor, mounted a charger, and prepared to lead the attack on the besiegers' fortifications. She ordered the gates opened, but the Mayor refused until Joan explained that she, personally, would cut off his head. The gates went up, the French sallied out, and Joan led the first successful attack they'd made in years. The English strongpoints were taken, the siege was broken, and Joan's career in the cow-milking trade was over.
Braddock's Defeat (aka Battle of Monongahela) July 1755: Next time you're driving through the Ohio Valley, remember you're passing near the site of a great French victory over an Anglo-American force twice its size. General Edward Braddock marched west from Virginia with 1,500 men--a very large army in 18th-c. America. His orders were to seize French land and forts in the Valley--your basic undeclared land-grab invasion. The French joined the local tribes to resist, and then set up a classic ambush. It was a slaughter. More than half of Braddock's force--880 men--were killed or wounded. The only Anglo officer to escape unhurt was this guy called George Washington, and even he had two horses shot out from under him. After a few minutes of non-stop fire from French and Indians hidden in the woods, Braddock's command came apart like something out of Nam, post-Tet. Braddock was hit and wounded, but none of his troops would risk getting shot to rescue him.
Austerlitz, Dec. 1805: You always hear about Austerlitz as "Napoleon's Greatest Victory," like the little guy personally went out and wiped out the combined Russian and Austrian armies. The fact is, ever since the Revolution in 1789, French armies had been kicking ass against everybody. They were free citizens fighting against scared peasant and degenerate mercenaries, and it was no contest. At Austerlitz, 65,000 French troops took on 90,000 Russians and Austrians and destroyed them. Absolutely annihilated them. The French lost only 8,000, compared to 29,000 of the enemy. The tactics Bonaparte used were very risky, and would only have worked with superb troops: he encouraged the enemy to attack a weak line, then brought up reinforcements who'd been held out of sight. That kind of tactical plan takes iron discipline and perfect timing--and the French had it.
Jena, Oct. 1806: just a quick reminder for anybody who thinks the Germans always beat the French. Napoleon takes on the Prussian army and destroys it. 27,000 Prussian casualties vs. 5,000 French. Prussian army routed, pursued for miles by French cavalry.
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so fucking ignorant to hate an entire nation you know nothing about because some drawling redneck tells you to.
The French lost their manhood after WWI. That war drained them a generation of young men, it has haunted the French ever since.
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Originally posted by Dravyk@Mar 18 2004, 06:38 PM Forgot a few from more recent French history, Dig.
1980s: We are your ally, US. However, not only won't we help you, but don't even fly over our airspace to save your people or we'll shoot you down.
1990s: Hey US, come fight the Yugoslav war for us, cause we can't do it ourselves. Besides, we're allies right? Allies help each other, right?
2000s: Iraq? Fuck off, US. Btw, we're still your ally. Really we are.
Dravyk, you know that is not relevant to anything! What IS relevant is what French solders did 200-1300 years ago. Learn to read...
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JR, you forgot about Corporal Lebeau! Without his food distracting Schultz, that ball-bearing factory near Hamburg could never have been bombed those 18 times.
Originally posted by JR@Mar 18 2004, 06:48 PM yeah... the french.
one of their greatest war heroes was a teenaged schizonphrenic peasant girl dressed as a boy.
great.
True.....BUT!
Milla Jovovich is hot...
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Mar 18 2004, 05:16 PM The French lost their manhood after WWI. That war drained them a generation of young men, it has haunted the French ever since.
not true..I fucked French girl once, I contributed to their genes pool
;-=)))
Hmmmm ... in the 1980s, the French never deined us access to airspace in order to "save our people." It did deny us access to French airspace for the "attack" on Lybia once it found out it was to be a one-time temper tantrum, rather than a sustained attack designed to depose Ghadafi.
In the 1990s, the reasons for U.S. involvement in the Bosnian conflict are many and varied; attributing it to some form of French cowardice takes almost Buffish intellectual contortions.
In 2002-3, the French seemed skeptical that Saddam presented a clear and imminent danger to the West. In view of the vast quantitites of WMD that have been uncovered, not to mention the evidence of Iraqi involvement in 9/11, I will leave the reader to draw his/her own conclusions as to the accuracy of the French position.
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Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Mar 18 2004, 07:19 PM not true..I fucked French girl once, I contributed to their genes pool
;-=)))
Finally...French women might shave...their armpits...
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Originally posted by Dravyk+Mar 18 2004, 06:38 PM-->
QUOTE (Dravyk @ Mar 18 2004, 06:38 PM)
Forgot a few from more recent French history, Dig.
1980s: We are your ally, US. However, not only won't we help you, but don't even fly over our airspace to save your people or we'll shoot you down.
1990s: Hey US, come fight the Yugoslav war for us, cause we can't do it ourselves. Besides, we're allies right? Allies help each other, right?
2000s: Iraq? Fuck off, US. Btw, we're still your ally. Really we are.[/b]
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God forbid a country has an opinion that differs from that of the US, and exercises their right to pull out of a conflict. The support for the Iraq war in spain is nothing like it is in the United States. There was way more opposition. Something like 80 percent of the population.
Originally posted by chodadog@Mar 18 2004, 08:53 PM God forbid a country has an opinion that differs from that of the US, and exercises their right to pull out of a conflict. The support for the Iraq war in spain is nothing like it is in the United States. There was way more opposition. Something like 80 percent of the population.
Why do you have to go bring God into it??
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Originally posted by Vick+Mar 18 2004, 09:03 PM-->
QUOTE (Vick @ Mar 18 2004, 09:03 PM)
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Originally posted by chodadog@Mar 19 2004, 03:53 AM God forbid a country has an opinion that differs from that of the US, and exercises their right to pull out of a conflict.
Pull out?!?! WTF do you mean "pull out"?!?!?!?
I've yet to see the fucking French go in to any form of modern warfare.
They've been a miserable armed failure for decades and even Serge's gene's aint gonna fix that....
The only good thing to come out of France was the Luftwaffe!
03-18-2004
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