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Originally posted by Dravyk@Jan 28 2003, 03:50 AM And this from the same great people who fucked up the Net over the weekend with their seven month late and still fucked up MySQL patch!!!
.... Oh yeah, baby: Microshit and the Internet, they go together like a Hasidic assembly at a pig roast!!
The day Gates can figure out how to do a fully-functinal smooth-operating Hotmail without Linux is the day I might believe they are starting to get a clue.
Dravyk,
Really man... you should not speak too loudly about things you know nothing about.
1. Microsoft released a patch for the worm last July.
2. Umm...Do you know the difference between MYSQL and SQL Server? Guess Not.
3. Blah, Blah, Blah.
Originally posted by KC@Jan 28 2003, 05:05 AM The .NET technology might be great. The only problem is that it relies on insecure and unstable MS OS technology..
I guess you haven't tried Windows Server 2003 have you?
Or 2000 for that matter.
The MS databases are the weakest links. All our apps we used to write we used an IBM AS/400 for the database server. You could hack the NT server but all you could do was screw around with some html and asp code. AS/400's are extremely difficult to hack into which is why the pentagon uses them. Another dirty little secret that Microsoft doesn't want people to know is that they ran their business on IBM AS/400's until a few years ago because they knew their own security was so poor.
Originally posted by ulfie@Jan 28 2003, 01:24 PM The MS databases are the weakest links. All our apps we used to write we used an IBM AS/400 for the database server. You could hack the NT server but all you could do was screw around with some html and asp code. AS/400's are extremely difficult to hack into which is why the pentagon uses them. Another dirty little secret that Microsoft doesn't want people to know is that they ran their business on IBM AS/400's until a few years ago because they knew their own security was so poor.
Ulife,
Tell me...
Have you developed any apps with MS SQL Server/Windows Server 2000 or 2003? How did that go? Who programmed the app? Who admin the server? Did they use the right tools to lock the server down?
Also, have you looked around webmaster resource sites that have always been very Pro PHP and have you noticed that they all love .NET? (www.sitepoint.com is one)
Another dirty little secret that Microsoft doesn't want people to know is that they ran their business on IBM AS/400's until a few years ago because they knew their own security was so poor.
Interesting. Who knew?
Can you post the article that you read this at? I'm sure it's creditable....so no fear.
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Originally posted by EricP@Jan 28 2003, 01:44 PM Yes, they should have caught that hole long ago in development.
Yes, the admin should have installed the patches.
I thought the patch they released last year didn't even work.
I know admins who updated their patches on Friday and still got screwed when that started.
Bottom line, windows servers don't belong on the internet.. they should be confined to little corporate networks.
Originally posted by EricP@Jan 28 2003, 01:47 PM A firewall is a must have.
It is a large part of locking down a system.
How do you test how strong a system's security is if you do a test behind a firewall? sounds like a network security test.
The systems should be able to stand on their own.
Which would get hacked first on an open network. A well configured FreeBSD box or a well configured windows 2000 box? How long would it take to configure each platform?
Originally posted by EricP@Jan 28 2003, 10:17 AM I guess you haven't tried Windows Server 2003 have you?
Or 2000 for that matter.
Actually I use Win 2000 for my desktop and laptop OS..
but the last time I put a windows server on my network it was compromised and used in a DDoS attack against a company that sued us. We spent $50K and about 3 months on a lawsuit defending ourselves over a stupid Windowz box.
Actually I use Win 2000 for my desktop and laptop OS..
but the last time I put a windows server on my network it was compromised and used in a DDoS attack against a company that sued us. We spent $50K and about 3 months on a lawsuit defending ourselves over a stupid Windowz box.
KC I remembered when this happened.... :angry:
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Jan 26 2003, 05:24 PM
But EVERYONE I know, and the people I deal with, all look to non-microsfot solutions....
I have talked to some BRILLIANT programers, the staff at DirectNIC, and not one person pushed microsoft. Inact, you are the only person I know how pushes microsoft so much. I also think this is because you are not familiar with other options out side of Microsoft...
I am not a programmer but a business owner who replies on programmers and solutions. I agree with Mike. Industry standards pull a lot of weight, while MS past and recent events make you go, "Hmmmm".
You could pay me to do Windows Server anything much less trust my business beyond my personal PC, Win XP - to Microsoft.
News is news and talk is talk at this point.
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Originally posted by ulfie@Jan 28 2003, 01:24 PM Another dirty little secret that Microsoft doesn't want people to know is that they ran their business on IBM AS/400's until a few years ago because they knew their own security was so poor.
Additionally, when MS bought hotmail.com.. they attempted to convert it from FreeBSD & Apache to NT and IIS.. but NT couldn't handle the load and they switched back to the *nix solution..
Eric,
Do you know any sites that are in the top 20 (in terms of traffic) that use MS technology? It's not a platform for serious traffic. In the adult industry, the traffic loads are different that little MS Consulting firms and stuff.
[quote]Originally posted by KC@Jan 28 2003, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulfie,Jan 28 2003, 01:24 PM
Eric,
Do you know any sites that are in the top 20 (in terms of traffic) that use MS technology? It's not a platform for serious traffic. In the adult industry, the traffic loads are different that little MS Consulting firms and stuff.
[quote]Originally posted by EricP@Jan 28 2003, 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC,Jan 28 2003, 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ulfie,Jan 28 2003, 01:24 PM
Eric,
Do you know any sites that are in the top 20 (in terms of traffic) that use MS technology? It's not a platform for serious traffic. In the adult industry, the traffic loads are different that little MS Consulting firms and stuff.
And I thin microsoft is listed with them, thus they are trying to use technology of their clients.
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KC, problem is Eric drnak the kool-aid, and got a BIG dose.
Eric, when you discuss a microsoft product such as .net, you have to remember that you end up with the whole ball of microslop wax. You get the windows, and .net runs mostly on the sql server, so there ya go. You also eat up all that overhead making a nice gui display for the console, and the overhead that is windows running, even at idle. Critical system resources (ram and processor cycles) are wasted doing all the things you don't need to run a server. More importantly, from a security standpoint, literally thousands of ports are open on the TCP/IP that don't need to be, and they answer...
you like .net, that's fine. Enjoy it. Do something with it, and then come back and show us how smart you are. We aren't in the business of theoreticals, were are in the business of high volume porn serving...
Heck, if your are right, then you have a big jump on the rest of us and you will be rich!
Alex
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Top 20 (alot of korean sites...) according to alexa.com:
#1
Web Site Yahoo!
Provides intuitive, context-based guides to online content, Web search capabilities, third-party content and community and personalization features which enable Web users to locate and access desired information and services. (Nasdaq: YHOO). www.yahoo.com
2. MSN.com
Microsoft's Internet portal. Offers personalized content, with search, news, stocks, email, weather and access to other Microsoft content channels including MSNBC, Carpoint, Expedia (travel) and more. www.msn.com
3. 다음daum
A very popular South Korean portal. Offers search, news, finance, entertainment, and other portal features. www.daum.net
4. 네이버
통합 검색과 디렉토리, 웹페이지, 해외사이트, 멀티미디어, 뉴스 검색을 지원하는 검색 포털. www.naver.com
5. Google
Enables users to search the Web, Usenet, and images. Features include PageRank, caching and translation of results, and an option to find similar pages. The company's focus is developing search technology. www.google.com
6. Alexa Internet
Please note: The traffic ranking for alexa.com is inflated because users of the Alexa Toolbar are disproportionately likely to visit our site. Alexa provides great search results plus free information about sites. www.alexa.com
10. Microsoft Corporation
Designs, develops, manufactures, licenses, sells and supports a wide range of software products. (Nasdaq: MSFT). www.microsoft.com
11. E-Bay
Buy and sell stamps and related items. www.ebay.com
20. 프리챌
현실사회의 공동체를 사이버에서 더욱 발전시켜 갈 수 있도록 하는 커뮤니티 전문 인터넷 서비스 www.freechal.com
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Originally posted by RawAlex@Jan 28 2003, 03:15 PM KC, problem is Eric drnak the kool-aid, and got a BIG dose.
I have read about .NET, and have studied the .NET Framework.
If you would do the same, you would realize the power it offers is above and beyond anything that has ever been.
C# is much better than C++.
VB 6 was trash, VB.NET is a full OO language will all the power of C++ and C#.
ASP was simple and could only do so much, with ASP.NET you can do SO much more and you can use ANY .NET compatiable language including C++, C#, Visual Basic.NET, Jscript.NET, Python, Perl, Java (J#), COBOL, Eiffel and Delphi.
Sounds like a fun challenge, but you cant do something like start it up and have NO services running.
You have to run the services that a windows box runs. FTP, Telnet, IIS, Windows Media perhaps, PC Anywhere or VNC, whichever you use to admin the box.. i'll be game for at lease a little bit of fun :-)
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Hack an IBM AS/400 and I'll be impressed. There's a reason all the casino's use them. .NET is nice technology, I'm just not as sold on it as you are Eric due to Microsofts track record.
As far as the security issues are concerned, a large majority of MS security cases are caused from inexperienced admin who do not follow MS Security Recommendations properly, thus the reason Microsoft put out such free software as;
The "v4 Windows Update" The latest version that updates your system or network automatically.
The "Baseline Security Analyzer" that will probe your entire system (or Network) and tell you how to fix security vulnerabilities. (Works on Desktops too - XP, 2000) Give it a try. It also has a great user interface.
The "IIS Lockdown Tool" that locks down IIS from well known mis-configurations that could allow a breach in security.
If very well paid 'system admin' were as smart as their 4 year computer degree says they are, they would be using the tools above to help secure a W2K Server.
With the release of Windows Server 2003 and SQL Server (Yukon), I think we will see a very large improvement in security.
MS has made it their 1# priority and a very large part of it starts with .NET.
http://www.microsoft.com/mscorp/execmail/default.asp
...In early 2002 we took the unprecedented step of stopping the development work of 8,500 Windows engineers while the company conducted 10 weeks of intensive security training and analyzed the Windows code base...
I know MS does not have the greatest security record, but take a look at the above post. Read what they are doing and I'm sure you will see that they are giving it 110% when it comes to security.
Originally posted by EricP@Jan 28 2003, 07:42 PM I know MS does not have the greatest security record, but take a look at the above post. Read what they are doing and I'm sure you will see that they are giving it 110% when it comes to security.
2003 - 2004 will be a very good test of this.
This begs the question "why weren't they giving security their full attention until now?" Like I said before I'll wait and see. From my standpoint I would have a hard time trusting Microsoft with my business until they have proven they can handle it. So far they haven't.
Originally posted by ulfie@Jan 28 2003, 01:24 PM The MS databases are the weakest links. All our apps we used to write we used an IBM AS/400 for the database server. You could hack the NT server but all you could do was screw around with some html and asp code. AS/400's are extremely difficult to hack into which is why the pentagon uses them. Another dirty little secret that Microsoft doesn't want people to know is that they ran their business on IBM AS/400's until a few years ago because they knew their own security was so poor.
I used to work with an AS/400 using Lotus Notes Domino.
Awesome box shitty webserver the webserver crashed 5 times a day.
I also hate Lotus: I've been to school for it and I will never work in that environment again I hate it that bad.
www.byteandswitch.com has been running continuously since November 2000. When we first started graphing web servers uptime in the summer of 2000, many people were skeptical that a Windows machine would ever make the top 50. Perceptions change, and although two years is exceptional, several Windows 2000 sites have run for more than a year without a reboot. In the hosting industry, Microsoft partners Interliant and Divine each have sites that have not been rebooted in over a year, while Microsoft has also run several of its own sites for over a year between reboots.
note how the first MS box is number 25!
sorry but I like to have a system that WORKS! what can I say...
Quote:
Which sites are routinely surveyed ?
Initially a small set of sites were surveyed, but we are now increasing this set. Any site that is requested through the what's that site running query form at Netcraft.com will be automatically added to the set of sites that are routinely sampled. If you have already done this you do not need to e-mail us. Once we have collected sufficient daily samples, we will be able to plot an uptime graph for the site.
Once we have monitored the host for sufficient time to plot a graph, we will only continue to monitor the host if it is again requested through the site. We cannot routinely monitor all 22 million hosts that we know of for performance reasons.
Initially a small set of sites were surveyed, but we are now increasing this set. Any site that is requested through the what's that site running query form at Netcraft.com will be automatically added to the set of sites that are routinely sampled. If you have already done this you do not need to e-mail us. Once we have collected sufficient daily samples, we will be able to plot an uptime graph for the site.
Once we have monitored the host for sufficient time to plot a graph, we will only continue to monitor the host if it is again requested through the site. We cannot routinely monitor all 22 million hosts that we know of for performance reasons.
01-28-2003
Nick@ilynx: "MasterP, YOU'RE FIRED!"
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