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Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 12:32 PM Yep Marc. I think that in many ways this is a tough pill to swallow but that in the long term it will ensure the viability of the industry.
I commend every sponsor who lowers payouts.
I commend them all too...
Anyone got URL's for the program's we aren't commending please?
hehe if for nothing else, you gotta love FM for seeing an opportunity
Code:
A major processor today announced that they are stopping Free Trials. The good news is CECash is not stopping Free Trials.
Many large affiliate programs out there have announced they are lowering their Webmaster payouts, the good news is CECash is not lowering their Webmaster payouts!
CECASH will continue their Free Trial Sign Ups. Free Trial Sign Ups have never been a problem when theye handled with the proper disclosure. CECASH has always used the proper disclosure and their chargeback rates are right in line with the current new processing parameters.
Here is a little explanation of why Free Trials elpkeep chargebacks down when properly disclosed.
If you have 100 Free Trial sign ups, 60 percent cancel, you only put 40 percent of monthly members thru the banking system, or 40 transactions.
If you have 100 Paid Trial sign ups, 60 percent cancel, you process at total of 140 percent of transactions for trials and monthly members thru the banking system, or 140 transactions.
That 78 percent more transactions for paid trials than free trials put thru the banking system in a given month. This highly increases your exposure for chargebacks from the bank.
Another reason that CECash does not have a chargeback problem is because their are real cancel links in all members sections which make it very easy to cancel a membership, this has always been like this.
CECASH will not reduce their payouts.
~~ some snipped ~~
Peace Out!
fm
Originally posted by Monk@Jul 12 2003, 12:04 AM How about sponsors who are going to innovate and find/use new billing methods rather than pat each other on the back for lowering payouts.
And there is a lot of webmasters with lots of "infa-structure" built around free pass signups..
Wonder who wants this business .. and thinks they can stay in biz :-)
(damn was it only less than 12 months ago we were copping $70 a free trial signup???)
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 10 2003, 05:26 PM Free trials have always been a bad idea. They have been abused, as well as the cross sales. We have brought this upon ourselves.
I am very EXCITED about these changes.
One reason PureCash has not launched on time was due to the changes that were coming down. We wanted to make sure that we have the right business model built in, and not try to build on the old model that is being put to sleep.
I think in the long run this will make the industry much more stable. We have enjoyed a drunken orgy of $45 payouts on free trials... reality looks like it is finally setting in.
For once I agree 100% with you Mike. FINALLY we are seeing per-signup payouts going down instead of up. It's going to force everyone to play on a fair level with everyone else. Shadiness is about to get a little sunlight.
Revshare programs are about to see more money in their pockets too.
__________________ I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.
Will there still be people at $40 per signup? Yeah probably, but I don't trust em with my money. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
People will still offer $40 - $45 sales... and they will prance around, an say look at me, I am a player and paying out this much....
I have one word that sums this up: GILETTE!
The sad this is many webmasters will fall for it.
Quote:
How about sponsors who are going to innovate and find/use new billing methods rather than pat each other on the back for lowering payouts.
This is the bullshit they will feed people like Monk, and claim to be paying him $40 cause they have innovated new income streams, yadda, yadda, but what that really will be doing is realying on the Mach III - and there will be webmasters who will just smile, and post praises of these people....
Will be funny to watch..... Webmasters will want to relive the glory days, the drunken orgy where it was a free for all.... Those days are over. It is time for everyone to sober up, and realize the industry will not last to long if we keep shafting the surfer ( our customer).
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Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Originally posted by Monk@Jul 11 2003, 06:04 AM How about sponsors who are going to innovate and find/use new billing methods rather than pat each other on the back for lowering payouts.
Evil Chris, I have been waiting for this day to come for almost 7 years now... I had originally hoped and an industry we would figure out we have to grow up and stop playing games. Stop cramming surfers credit cards, stop slamming them on dialers, stop misleading customers....
But it never happened, thus VISA had to step in....
The cockholsters are going to hopefully reform, or be put out of business!!!
This is a new dawn for this industry.... and I am EXTREMELY excited!!
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Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 11 2003, 10:38 AM Evil Chris, I have been waiting for this day to come for almost 7 years now... I had originally hoped and an industry we would figure out we have to grow up and stop playing games. Stop cramming surfers credit cards, stop slamming them on dialers, stop misleading customers....
But it never happened, thus VISA had to step in....
The cockholsters are going to hopefully reform, or be put out of business!!!
This is a new dawn for this industry.... and I am EXTREMELY excited!!
Word playa! :P
__________________ I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 11 2003, 09:33 AM This is the bullshit they will feed people like Monk, and claim to be paying him $40 cause they have innovated new income streams, yadda, yadda, but what that really will be doing is realying on the Mach III - and there will be webmasters who will just smile, and post praises of these people....
MikeAI,
It will be obvious if new billing solutions are implemented or not.
Also, I send my traffic where it makes the most money. PERIOD. Wherever, my traffic garners the biggest cheque is where it will end up.
I don't have to decide whether I should believe one sponsor's bullshit about why they don't have to reduce payout rates or another sponsr's bullshit about why they do.
Also, I send my traffic where it makes the most money. PERIOD. Wherever, my traffic garners the biggest cheque is where it will end up.
Of course Monk, and you have enough experience to track this and really know what each click is making. However, there are many webmasters who will see $45 a signup and will rush over and send traffic. Shaving has become a pretty sophisticated science....
__________________
Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Originally posted by Mike AI@Jul 11 2003, 09:52 AM Of course Monk, and you have enough experience to track this and really know what each click is making. However, there are many webmasters who will see $45 a signup and will rush over and send traffic. Shaving has become a pretty sophisticated science....
"This is the bullshit they will feed people like Monk"
HAHA No confusion Monk.... they will feed it to you, its up to you to beleive it or not. I would like to think you have been around the block enough, you know what is hype, and what is reality....
But if you are clammering for people to innovate, and keep payouts high, you will be the prime target of the bullshit.
It is still early in the morning for me, so I may not be being as suscint as I normally am! <_<
__________________
Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Originally posted by Opti@Jul 11 2003, 09:59 AM Is there such a beast as a dialer system to make a one off charge rather than timed based?
ie: ring this number and type the code you hear into this login box.. and the surfer is charged $29.99 for the month?
I thought Aga was doing something like this?
You've got 1 off monthly charges for the US and Germany.
With countries that use SMS you can make someone send multiple messages to the value of whatever you want, ARS does it with UK traffic for a daily trial, you have to send 3 SMS messages.
Originally posted by el pres@Jul 12 2003, 01:04 AM With countries that use SMS you can make someone send multiple messages to the value of whatever you want, ARS does it with UK traffic for a daily trial, you have to send 3 SMS messages.
SMS type billing sounds like the credit card companies biggest potential competitor for online business.
Having to send 3 messages isn't quite "there" yet though :\
One issue I don't really understand with dialers/sms is that they provide a way to bill but don't have the built in "age verification" of a CC..
sms is such a cool feature but right now imho it's still in it's infancy. I can only bill a buck at a time (or a pound or euro or whatever that is) which to me is hardly worth it.
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Quickbuck is paying $100 Per trial join.
Originally posted by Hooper@Jul 11 2003, 10:19 AM sms is such a cool feature but right now imho it's still in it's infancy. I can only bill a buck at a time (or a pound or euro or whatever that is) which to me is hardly worth it.
Hooper,
With Aga's system you can multi message bill, not sure if there's a limit.
It's opening up a new market to you though, alot of Euro and Asian countries that can't/won't use CC's and dialers.
You can use it to bill a pay per view system, easiest way to target different languages aswell.
No need for billing/member support as its a one time download fee.
Seriously though, I think people who come from the Amateur side of the market understand what is going on, and should be able to capitalize on the change. We have always done things differently then the big programs....
__________________
Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Brad you are right, the companies who have always pushed the envelope - (the ones who led the way in putting the industry in this situation )- will still carry on business as usual....
It will be interesting to see if VISA can catch on to their games....
Hell for a small consulting fee, I would be more then happy to help VISA. These are the cockholsters who put all of our futures at risk!
__________________
Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
I just opened my vinyl banner, flyer, and biz card re-printing company .. so that all of you can redo your internext literature... !!! lol
Sabby you weren't supposed to talk about my small penis in a public forum.. i'm never coming back to visit you anymore!
In general.. not sure customer loyalty is as good as it was 2 years ago... how much is a revshare worth these days??? and why aren't all of them retired???
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SICCash V. 5
SicCash doesn't convert for shit us and adult.com!!!
Toolz, I agree partner programs are not the answers. Retention sucks (nothing we can do it going to help this trend dramatically), and it takes dialers, exits, upsells, email etc to turn a nice profit, not 50% partnership long term.
I challenge someone to post some #'s. I have never sent traffic to a partner program, I could be wrong, but that would be rare.
Originally posted by Sabby@Jul 11 2003, 06:37 AM My favorite is the small penis guy that comes in all the time and just wants me to make fun of him and laugh at his tiny little dick.
Me and him have a GREAT time together!!!
Sabby
Mike Ai, you better hope Sabby doesn't spill the beans to Katie about this!!!
Mike Ai, you better hope Sabby doesn't spill the beans to Katie about this!!!
This is a very sensitive subject for me. I would not pay any girl to insult my dick size... I can get them to do it for free!!
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Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Originally posted by BradShaw@Jul 11 2003, 03:00 PM Toolz, I agree partner programs are not the answers. Retention sucks (nothing we can do it going to help this trend dramatically), and it takes dialers, exits, upsells, email etc to turn a nice profit, not 50% partnership long term.
I challenge someone to post some #'s. I have never sent traffic to a partner program, I could be wrong, but that would be rare.
My hat is off to you Brad, for commenting purely on something you know about, and nothing you don't know about.
Nobody is going to post any numbers. If you were the savvy businessman you profess to be, you would know there is more money in the long run for affiliate programs that run purely on revshare. It's been said a hundred thousand times over, but a $35 payout on a 7.95 trial doesn't make sense. Never has. Yes I know that it's probably too complicated for me to understand that you make that money back up by cleverly using exits, and spamming yourself... but I'm learing.
Retention is just fine on sites that create their own content, and do not sell it to others. Obviously, sites with purely licensed content can't compete with that.
__________________ I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.
Chris the most important point about sending traffic to Rev Share is to send it to QUALITY sites, with great members areas. Custom content is also key. It is important to know the program, and the people running it - to know they are commited to 100% customer satisfaction!
They do not call it "Partnership" programs for nothing.... make sure you "KNOW" your partner, and that they are working with you! ( not just taking your traffic)
__________________
Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
Chris, answer this. What has made more millionaires, PPS or partnership prorgrams?
You think Fm, RB, Marc De, Aussies, etc got rich off partnership programs, no.
Surf around to the biggest players in the biz exit consoles (ars, nasrty dollars, top bucks, etc), what do you see, 95% links to PPS programs, not partnership programs. These guys need to MAXIMIZE every dime, they must know what they are doing?
Success leaves clues, call me magnum pi.
I am sure they have a place in the industry, I just have not found it. Times may be changing, but for now I stick to same story.
Evil Chris - I'm not posting this to dog you, but even a PPS program paying $25-30 is (in most cases) going to make more ON AVERAGE (I'm not talking 2 or 3 sign ups that rebill for 10 months, that is all figured into the average) than a 50% partnership program.
You can have exclusive content but that doesn't change the fact that SURFERS KNOW THE GAME. Sign up and cancel - that is it and that is how it works. At 50% to beat a one time $30 referral your memberships would have to be worth almost $75 and we all know that is near impossible across anyone's entire portfolio (let me do the math, 75% - 18% of chargebacks, refunds, and processing fees = $61.50 and 50% of that is $30.75)
Partnership programs are great for people who have absolute superior traffic that will refer members that retain far outside the industry average, otherwise PPS is the way to go and still will be. There is one MAJOR reason the largest programs are PPS and that is because they PAY MORE MONEY per click / membership!
We're very excited about where revshare is and where it appears to be heading. I'm sure there's more bumps in the road but I have a solid vehicle I'm also excited about our dialer/web900/sms solution that we have along with wig's ACH program.
I think things are well with revshare as long as the owners are interested in retention.
anyhow, Go join wepayu.com and let us pay u
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"Never argue with an idiot....he will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."
Some good points here... and I can especially relate to Mike's comment on the quality of sites. Revshare programs need this in particular.
I don't want to get into the nudge nudge wink wink aspects of running a pps program that pays $40+ per free signup, though. Those kinds of numbers have never made any sense no matter what spin you put on it.
Marc, at Triplexcash (for example), all the sites contain exclusive content with almost no 3rd party content. Retention is good because the surfers get something unique on every update. Also, most of our traffic is from the TGP circle of webmasters and the conversions would impress you. These are surfers who know the game better than any others, I'm sure you would agree. Also, you shouldn't base all your calculations on 50%. I can offer you 60% and we'll both make a lot of money.
__________________ I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.
Brad... the bottom line here is you will have to lower your pps payouts, and therefore you'll be forced to compete with revshare programs. Your customer support is probably already good, but will need to step it up once again. But most importantly, the sites need to be beyond reproach. The member needs to be impressed with that they've paid for more than even now. So releasing 12 new sites a month will be almost impossible if they are to be profitable.
And by the way, most revshare programs will offer a pps, just not on trials.
Last edited by Evil Chris at Jul 11 2003, 05:05 PM
__________________ I will talk shit about you if I think you wont find out.
RevShare has there place. But realisticly they are run by people who do not have the money ( or do not want to spend the money) to do PPS.
PPS programs are the biggest, and will be the biggest. It is good business practie to get your money immediately ( that is why people always take that option with lotterys). One big reason is RISK. Which is a major issue in this industry....
As a webmaster, one should have a good portfolio of sites to promote.... but I would stick to PPS programs for at least 85% of my traffic.
The only RevShare programs I send traffic to are run by friends, or amateur girls.....
__________________
Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!
07-11-2003
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