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Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 87
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx+Apr 12 2005, 10:47 AM-->| QUOTE (Nickatilynx @ Apr 12 2005, 10:47 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by rendh@Apr 12 2005, 10:46 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Apr 12 2005, 10:16 AM
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04-12-2005
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#52
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I read thru part of the thread, but thought I'd go ahead and chime in without finishing it.
Several Euro aggregators and processors lost the ability to process MC a week to ten days ago already, about the same time as the IBill announcement that they were having "difficulties" processing Mastercard and were declining all new sales and holding rebills.
Not really bagging on IBill per se, but any time a processor announces that they are declining new trans, that means that they can't batch them since they don't have a light at the end of the tunnel for them, imo.
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04-12-2005
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#53
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Members
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Posts: 8,059
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Quote:
Originally posted by Becki+Apr 12 2005, 01:40 PM-->| QUOTE (Becki @ Apr 12 2005, 01:40 PM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Apr 12 2005, 10:16 AM
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04-12-2005
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#54
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Members
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Australia mate!
Posts: 232
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While we are all joining the hullabaloo about how terrible some of these things are just remember that 20 years ago some of the niches that no one blinks an eye at these days were considered to be so grossly obscene that no decent person would ever even think about promoting it.
In the real world there is already a huge amount of interest in some of the way out niches that have been mentioned here. We may not like it personally but more and more people are finding some of those things to be more and more acceptable and they want to see it and they want to experience it.
There is already a huge underground culture in some of those areas involving normal every day people and eventually they will become acceptable.
Or course, there are a very few things like KP that normal society will never find acceptable.
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04-12-2005
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#55
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Stay Out Of The Box
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lost in the ozone
Posts: 10,318
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Prosecutor: So, did you or did you not have pornography on display ?
Defendant: Well, yes I did, but mine is the good type of pornography, not the bad type.
Doesn't matter what the niche is, those that hate the industry see everyone involved in it in the same light.
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04-12-2005
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#56
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Stay Out Of The Box
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Lost in the ozone
Posts: 10,318
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Other Steve@Apr 12 2005, 02:18 PM
Or course, there are a very few things like KP that normal society will never find acceptable.
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there are sections of society that see nothing wrong with that.
And the folks who want to take down the industry see absolutely no distinction between the "good guys" and the "bad guys".
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04-12-2005
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#57
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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Quote:
Originally posted by sarettah@Apr 12 2005, 11:30 AM
Prosecutor: So, did you or did you not have pornography on display ?
Defendant: Well, yes I did, but mine is the good type of pornography, not the bad type.
Doesn't matter what the niche is, those that hate the industry see everyone involved in it in the same light.
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Just a little bit above drug dealers.
though even that is arguable.
If Markham was a drug dealer he'd be like
"I only sell to Middle schoolers and above!! No primary school kids.Well unless they have big tits"
currently his slogan should be.....
"We light the cunt really well"
LOL
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04-12-2005
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#58
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Apr 12 2005, 01:14 PM
I'll bring the sheep. Paul, bring the lights. Sykkboy, bring your cock!
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but but but, I don't have the experience....I've never even been to New Zealand...
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04-12-2005
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#59
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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Sure it sucks when companies, banks etc. start playing the moral police, but I understand why they want to distance themself from the content in question - they got a brand to protect and having sites like "ExtremeRapeOfDeadDonkeysCoveredInShit.com" (think I got all of the forbidden content covered in that site ;-) showing the MC logo could lead to image problems...
YES, you can probably buy everything in the physical world with your MC (guns, drugs, prostitutes, 3rd world countries), but the internet is a different place, where search engines trawl for information and make the connections visible... not good if you are trying sell your product on "good old banking values"...
Is "normal" porn next? Well - who knows other than the guys at MC... US judge dismissal of the Paycom suit saying that "it was not prevented from using other forms of payment" could be a sign of the things to come (pure speculation).
But as always - spread your eggs (no, not legs ;-))
__________________
"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
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04-12-2005
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#60
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by Almighty Colin+Apr 12 2005, 11:03 AM-->| QUOTE (Almighty Colin @ Apr 12 2005, 11:03 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by Becki@Apr 12 2005, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by Almighty Colin@Apr 12 2005, 10:16 AM
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04-12-2005
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#61
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Buys wine at Publix!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 170
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I still wonder if the credit card companies were thinking "moral values" in taking the steps they have against our industry or "new bankruptcy laws".
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04-12-2005
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#62
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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I never knew pigs had corkscrew dicks til I saw a Beast film.
So that makes them educational 
;-))
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04-12-2005
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#63
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Members
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,085
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grump@Apr 12 2005, 05:47 PM
I still wonder if the credit card companies were thinking "moral values" in taking the steps they have against our industry or "new bankruptcy laws".
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Are you implying a deal of some sort was made? like we will give you your bankruptcy laws, if you stop processing porn type of thing? is that the question as I understand it? or did I miss it entirlely
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04-12-2005
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#64
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Buys wine at Publix!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 170
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Not implying one was made, wondering if one was.
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04-12-2005
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#65
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Members
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 5,085
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grump@Apr 12 2005, 06:48 PM
Not implying one was made, wondering if one was.
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Yeah, good question
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04-13-2005
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#66
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Down Under
Posts: 5,202
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 12 2005, 10:38 AM-->| QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 12 2005, 10:38 AM) | |
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04-13-2005
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#67
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Down Under
Posts: 5,202
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for those of you who are screaming about how this is censorship and should not be allowed blah blah .....
are you seriously stating that mastercard is wrong for choosing not to process RAPE sites? Forget the rest of it that is moral argument, do you think RAPE is a moral argument and that this should be allowed under freedom of speech?!?!
The only line of defense ANY of us have in a court of law is CONSENT.
Rape is the opposite of consent and an animal can't give consent. I would be less concerned about visa, mastercard, your hosting company, your reputation etc than I would about the RSPCA and Peta.
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04-13-2005
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#68
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Banned
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 15,115
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It is well known in Wales that sheep gag for it and are well known for there lack of virtue.
Welsh people know that "Bah" means "Yes"!!!
As do New Zealanders
;-)))
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04-13-2005
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#69
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Guest
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 12 2005, 08:34 PM
It is well known in Wales that sheep gag for it and are well known for there lack of virtue.
Welsh people know that "Bah" means "Yes"!!!
As do New Zealanders
;-)))
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lol 
Where's rendh when you need him 
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04-13-2005
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#70
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by cj@Apr 12 2005, 11:13 PM
for those of you who are screaming about how this is censorship and should not be allowed blah blah .....
are you seriously stating that mastercard is wrong for choosing not to process RAPE sites? Forget the rest of it that is moral argument, do you think RAPE is a moral argument and that this should be allowed under freedom of speech?!?!
The only line of defense ANY of us have in a court of law is CONSENT.
Rape is the opposite of consent and an animal can't give consent. I would be less concerned about visa, mastercard, your hosting company, your reputation etc than I would about the RSPCA and Peta.
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They don't make a distinction between actual rape and simulated rape
I can go buy the movie Irreversible on DVD (with a mastercard even) and it has a very brutal rape scene in it...what about ravishment fantasies? I can buy a whole lot of "romance" novels with strong men who ravish women and "take them"...
I don't think anyone is going to have actual rape sites and real "snuff" sites...I can go buy the entiure Friday The 13th series on DVD (and I've done just that) and I could have bought it with my mastercard (should I actually choose to ever carry one). Isn't that simulated snuff?
So, if I were to take the movie Irreversible and a Friday the 13th video and ripped them and stuck them up behind a credit card area, Mastercard wouldn't process for these? why (copyright issues aside ;-))?
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04-13-2005
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#71
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Members
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 72
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Motion pictures such as Friday 13th are fantasy and anyone watching them know they are fake but the people churning out 'snuff' and 'rape' are trying to make them as real as possible. to the point were the viewer has to question if what they saw was real.
The whole point in these 'rape' and 'snuff' vids is to make the buyer think they are seeing a real rape or murder if indeed they are not!
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04-13-2005
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#72
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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Sykk, one of my favorit quotes from Apocalypse Now:
Quote:
Kurtz : We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "fuck" on their aeroplane because it's obscene.
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The world have always been a place of hypocrisy... good thing is that we make our money from it - if porn was mainstream as Friday The 13th, then no one would buy it
__________________
"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
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04-13-2005
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#73
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 13 2005, 01:08 AM
Motion pictures such as Friday 13th are fantasy and anyone watching them know they are fake but the people churning out 'snuff' and 'rape' are trying to make them as real as possible. to the point were the viewer has to question if what they saw was real.
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Sounds exactly like what Michael Moore is doing ;-)))
__________________
"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
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04-13-2005
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#74
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Members
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rolo+Apr 13 2005, 01:22 AM-->| QUOTE (Rolo @ Apr 13 2005, 01:22 AM) | |
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04-13-2005
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#75
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Dickhead
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 30
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 13 2005, 12:56 AM-->| QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 13 2005, 12:56 AM) | |
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04-13-2005
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#76
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,059
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Quote:
Originally posted by cj@Apr 12 2005, 11:13 PM
for those of you who are screaming about how this is censorship and should not be allowed blah blah .....
are you seriously stating that mastercard is wrong for choosing not to process RAPE sites? Forget the rest of it that is moral argument, do you think RAPE is a moral argument and that this should be allowed under freedom of speech?!?!
The only line of defense ANY of us have in a court of law is CONSENT.
Rape is the opposite of consent and an animal can't give consent. I would be less concerned about visa, mastercard, your hosting company, your reputation etc than I would about the RSPCA and Peta.
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Rape is wrong. Simulated rape fantasies I am ok with. I understand there are issues but like you alluded to there are issues with any kind of porn - even 18 year old teens.
Animal sex? What can I say? I've only seen one bestiality clip and it was pretty interesting to watch though I almost got sick when the donkey's cum exploded out of the girl's mouth. Consent? The donkey definitely looked like it was having a good time. I mean, it was getting its dick sucked and it wasn't tied down or trying to walk around or anything. Fuck, where are the consent forms for horseback riding? That's animal exploitation too. I can live with that. To tell you the truth, I ate cow yesterday and drank a glass of milk. Wanna see some footage of cow milking? Nice teets.
Mastercard can do whatever what they want. I dont have any issue with MC's decision.
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04-13-2005
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#77
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,059
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Quote:
Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Apr 12 2005, 11:34 PM
It is well known in Wales that sheep gag for it and are well known for there lack of virtue.
Welsh people know that "Bah" means "Yes"!!!
As do New Zealanders
;-)))
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04-13-2005
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#78
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 13 2005, 04:08 AM
Motion pictures such as Friday 13th are fantasy and anyone watching them know they are fake but the people churning out 'snuff' and 'rape' are trying to make them as real as possible. to the point were the viewer has to question if what they saw was real.
The whole point in these 'rape' and 'snuff' vids is to make the buyer think they are seeing a real rape or murder if indeed they are not!
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well, maybe we should stop bangbus....
that would make you think you could really pickup some girl along the road, fuck her and dump her?
are you saying people who can distinguish between reality and fantasy in a Friday The 13th movie can't do the same with something they see on the Internet?
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04-13-2005
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#79
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Members
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 13 2005, 02:32 AM-->| QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 13 2005, 02:32 AM) | |
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04-13-2005
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#80
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Buys wine at Publix!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 170
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Quote:
Originally posted by cj@Apr 13 2005, 12:13 AM
for those of you who are screaming about how this is censorship and should not be allowed blah blah .....
are you seriously stating that mastercard is wrong for choosing not to process RAPE sites? Forget the rest of it that is moral argument, do you think RAPE is a moral argument and that this should be allowed under freedom of speech?!?!
The only line of defense ANY of us have in a court of law is CONSENT.
Rape is the opposite of consent and an animal can't give consent. I would be less concerned about visa, mastercard, your hosting company, your reputation etc than I would about the RSPCA and Peta.
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I am saying that nobody else should have the right to say what I can look at as long as it is legal under the laws where I live. In Japan for example, that includes Rape fantasies and in other countries Animal Sex.
You jumped from simulated rape to Rape, since when did a photographic recreation of a crime become the same thing as the crime itself? Photos of murders are not murder, check out most movies in existance and you will find one thing in common... ACTORS.
Fantasy is just that, fantasy...as in not real. If we in this business can't make a convincing argument of this (especially to ourselves) then we are doomed as our opponents will soon be using the inverse to destroy us.
MasterCard and Visa are supposed to approve or decline transactions, not morals.
(EDIT - typo.)
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04-13-2005
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#81
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Cantankerous Loony
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 468
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grump@Apr 13 2005, 06:05 AM
MasterCard and Visa are supposed to approve or decline transactions, not morals.
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And they are well within their rights not to process what they do not want to process.
THERE IS NO CENSORSHIP ISSUE HERE PEOPLE
MC does not want to be associated with some things in any way.
Just like Am Ex dumped all adult - MC has the right.
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04-13-2005
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#82
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 154
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This only becomes a censorship issue IF Mastercard is viewed as a monopoly. Seeing as VISA and Mastercard have some of the same people on the board, they're virtually one operation in my opinion. They also have a very large majority of the market for (online) creditcard processing.
If they were legally considered a monopoly (which you surely dont need 100% of the market to be considered) then they shouldn't be allowed to do this.
As far as I know, they're not considered a monopoly though, so there is no
censorship issue.
Whether or not they SHOULD be looked upon as a monopoly is another question however.
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04-13-2005
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#83
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Members
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Six Feet Under
Posts: 2,150
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Quote:
Originally posted by sudden@Apr 13 2005, 05:57 AM
If they were legally considered a monopoly (which you surely dont need 100% of the market to be considered) then they shouldn't be allowed to do this.
As far as I know, they're not considered a monopoly though, so there is no censorship issue.
Whether or not they SHOULD be looked upon as a monopoly is another question however.
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The Paycom Vs. MasterCard case might give a hint how the courts look at it...
Quote:
District Court Dismisses All Claims Brought Against MasterCard by Paycom Billing Services
PURCHASE, N.Y.--(BUSINESS WIRE)--April 4, 2005--MasterCard International announced today that a U.S. District court judge has dismissed all claims brought against MasterCard International by Paycom Billing Services, Inc. The judge ruled that Paycom suffered no antitrust harm as a result of MasterCard's rules or policies.
"MasterCard is pleased that the court agreed that the plaintiff, an aggregator of payment services, failed to demonstrate that the policies at issue in this case do not harm competition. The judge also recognized that the plaintiff has multiple options for accepting payment, and could choose not to participate in our network," said Eileen Simon, MasterCard associate general counsel.
Aggregators provide payment card services to multiple merchants, including online adult content websites.
The ruling was made in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of New York by Judge David G. Trager. Paycom was represented by Lloyd Constantine's firm, which also represented the merchants in the class action relating to debit.
The plaintiff, Paycom Billing Services, Inc. is an aggregator of sales for Internet businesses. Paycom contracts with Internet merchants, most of which, according the court's ruling, provide online digital adult content. Paycom's primary challenge was to MasterCard's chargeback system protecting against fraudulent purchases.
The court's ruling recognized that Paycom is free to stop accepting MasterCard on behalf of its clients, or to urge its clients' customers to pay with other payment cards. The judge ruled that the plaintiff could not demonstrate that MasterCard's policies harmed competition.
"We are pleased that Judge Trager recognized that antitrust laws are designed to protect competition, not individual competitors," Simon said.
The plaintiff brought other antitrust claims, which the court dismissed, against additional MasterCard policies: its Competitive Programs Policy (CPP), Cross-Border Acquiring Rules, and Internet Merchant Qualification Mandates. The court ruled that Paycom had no standing to bring antitrust claims relating to any of these policies.
Specifically regarding the CPP claim, Judge Trager ruled that in addition to the lack of standing on its antitrust theory, plaintiffs' damages are "highly speculative" because in order to determine plaintiff's damages, a court would first have to determine, for example, how many additional fraudulent transactions on any other payment network would have occurred if the CPP did not exist. This would amount to pure speculation.
We agree with the court's decision that determining any damages under this theory would be hopelessly speculative," said Simon.
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http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/g...770&newsLang=en
__________________
"Chaos is the law of nature, order is the dream of man."
~Henry B. Adams (Historian) 1838-1918
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04-13-2005
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#84
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk+Apr 13 2005, 05:48 AM-->| QUOTE (Rikk @ Apr 13 2005, 05:48 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 13 2005, 02:32 AM
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04-13-2005
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#85
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Members
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 8,059
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 13 2005, 10:34 AM-->| QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 13 2005, 10:34 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 13 2005, 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 13 2005, 02:32 AM
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04-13-2005
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#86
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Members
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 13 2005, 07:34 AM-->| QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 13 2005, 07:34 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 13 2005, 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 13 2005, 02:32 AM
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04-13-2005
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#87
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk+Apr 13 2005, 11:38 AM-->| QUOTE (Rikk @ Apr 13 2005, 11:38 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 13 2005, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 13 2005, 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 13 2005, 02:32 AM
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04-13-2005
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#88
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Members
The global leader in pay-per-view AEBN
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: in my chair
Posts: 3,320
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Quote:
Originally posted by OldJeff@Apr 13 2005, 05:09 AM
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And they are well within their rights not to process what they do not want to process.
THERE IS NO CENSORSHIP ISSUE HERE PEOPLE
[/quote]
exactly.
__________________
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04-13-2005
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#89
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Members
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 72
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Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy+Apr 13 2005, 11:28 AM-->| QUOTE (SykkBoy @ Apr 13 2005, 11:28 AM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 13 2005, 11:38 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 13 2005, 07:34 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 13 2005, 05:48 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 13 2005, 02:32 AM
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04-13-2005
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#90
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Polishing the Chrome on Bishops Motorcycle
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Hell: Bowels : Level 9
Posts: 4,153
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk+Apr 13 2005, 02:40 PM-->| QUOTE (Rikk @ Apr 13 2005, 02:40 PM) |
Quote:
Originally posted by SykkBoy@Apr 13 2005, 11:28 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Rikk@Apr 13 2005, 11:38 AM
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