Oh how the mighty have fallen.....

[softball]

I met a traveller from an antique land
Who said: Two vast and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. Near them on the sand,
Half sunk, a shatter'd visage lies, whose frown
And wrinkled lip and sneer of cold command
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamp'd on these lifeless things,
The hand that mock'd them and the heart that fed.
And on the pedestal these words appear:
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.


I know that on today's internet, a thought from 1817 might be considered a long read and your add might kick in, but it says so much about our business.

I have never seen such major panic in my life....the cross sales thing. Anyone that is doing it is in trouble. Period. End of story.

I remember reading posts on webmaster boards when we were all awash with money and all of these "kings of kings" were gurus and visionaries. Personally, I knew it was all crap and anyone who wants to read any of my posts from the past is welcome to.

Sure some made millions, and some still will. But those who promote these guys are in the same pile of shit they are in. Time to rethink your business. Personally, I will stick to my original business plan and be content to be a tortoise.
next thread...the big question....

[RawAlex]

The problem is that the history of the online biz has been people pushing the limits until some outside force changes things. Many of us made money on the first great kill (Cresent), which was stopped by the authorities over time. There have been any number of questionable business models, most of them abusive to the clients, which got us to the point of strict rules for site approvals, chargeback penalities, hard scrubs, and so on.

All of the fixes to these problems have come from outside the business because enough people in the business can't control themselves.

This one is a little different, because this time it involves pride. Too many of the "use to be big but are not small but not admitting it" programs are turning to these prechecked sales in order to continue to offer high payouts, no longer depending on their sites, content, or salesmanship to make money but rather on brute force screwing the customer for as much money as you can as quickly as you can. It is incredibly short sighted, but for desperate people trying to keep their memberships in the "bros" club, trying to be able to afford to pay for the drinks at the convention, and so on... it's the only way they see to do it because they no longer know how to make money actually selling porn, and are too shy to admit it.

The tortoise's problem is always the same: Will the wildfire started by the hare kill me before I will the race? These small minded people playing out the last of their "top notch" status are starting a raging fire, and the rest of us are hoping not to be left with nothing but ash.

[Hell Puppy]

The industry draws get rich quick seekers who are inclined to strip mine and grab as much as they can as fast as they can ethics be damned.

Overall it's a sleazy industry. Guys who treat it as a business are the minority. Even those with decent business sense and some ethics of their own often turn a blind eye toward the actions of others they do business with.

Governments are overmatched, anything they can do is too little too late and just ends up becoming cost of doing business if you get caught.

[TheEnforcer]

Sigh.. give me a break. The assumption that a company is automatically in trouble because they use pre-checked cross sales is nonesense. You can argue that they may not be making the best business decision but to say they are automatically in trouble is silly.

[softball]

Sigh.. give me a break. The assumption that a company is automatically in trouble because they use pre-checked cross sales is nonesense.

I can make that argument because I had already heard rumblings. But apart from that, I would still make the argument. When everyone climbs on a roller coaster that is heading for a cliff, I think that is self evident.
Its just a sign that should make you put your ear to the rail. Nothing is carved in stone.
But its like a company that all of a sudden has lots of meetings. It means job losses are coming. It can also be the first step to "restructuring" which we all know is a euphemism.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Sigh.. give me a break. The assumption that a company is automatically in trouble because they use pre-checked cross sales is nonesense. You can argue that they may not be making the best business decision but to say they are automatically in trouble is silly.

walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... I say duck.

The sad reality is that for even the biggest programs out there, revenue is down in many cases up to 80% from what it was. Nobody in the Bros club top notch upstanding guys wants to admit they are failing. So, instead of failing, they have fallen into this scheme, go get NATS installed (because it makes it easy), add as many processors as you can manage to get, then start jamming the cross sales through.

Your $35 payout per signup isn't hard to do if you are collecting $120 off each sale, now is it? Suddenly they are all profitable again, they can all go to the conventions and buy the bros drinks, and they can afford the strippers.

Short term gain, long term pain, because the continue to piss off the few remaining porn buyers. Plus, because the whack on the credit card is so high, it is likely that the cards are failing or can't support a rebill, so they are pretty much toast.

Make it all today, make nothing tomorrow.

[DannyCox]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Overall it's a sleazy industry. Guys who treat it as a business are the minority.

I like very few people who are in this industry, and have never hid that fact. Over the years I've just had to deal with just too many suitcase pimps, wannabe playa's, and overall slimy guys. That was the main reason we stopped going to shows, I was actually embarrassed to be around most of them. I've always quietly done my business with other people who do treat it as a business first.