Naked Rhino VS NATS

[Toby]

Originally Posted by will76

Toby I don't know you...

And that's the whole issue I have with the attitude. You're the new guy here, not me. You don't know enough about me, about what I do or don't know, to make those assumptions.

If I had a past history of posting unsubstantiated BS on the boards your point might be justified. But you just assumed that since I didn't specifically list names of all those that had been posting publicly at the time about not getting paid that my post was unjustified. That's bullshit.

As for people getting paid and not saying anything, sure that's not unusual, but not a single posting about getting paid in this case, especially by the those that had been so public about it, can pretty much be taken as confirmation that no payments have been made.

This is a discussion board not the New York Fuckin Times. I'm not a reporter, just a webmaster that doesn't care for seeing friends and colleagues cheated.

BTW, I've been posting on a number of adult webmaster boards for several years now, and on a few of them for longer than that. GFY is not one of them, but a number of the boards you've started posting at since getting the boot (undeservedly so IMO) from there are. Take the time to get to know me, I'm a pretty easy going guy most of the time. What you see is what you get, no time or need for board personas or hype.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

first time I heard that one

and as for posting what others are owed based on private conversations with them is not something I do, sorry will...if I had seen some of these people post on the boards I would say their names in a heartbeat, but this was told me in private, and it will stay that way unless I am advised otherwise

[Toby]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

This is the first I've heard of this. Anyone out there lurking among those that actually got paid? Mailman from Medium Pimpin certainly wasn't one of them, he'd have said something.

[Jace]

I guess my big question to Will is why do you have such a vested interest in this? just for gossip or are you writing a news story?

I know why I have interest in it, but I can't figure out why you do

[bluemoney]

I'm just here for the sexy ladies

[Sexyteaser]

What's Your Vote Nats or Rhino's?

gnat.jpg rhino.jpg

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by bluemoney

I'm just here for the sexy ladies

You're so bad

oh, and I want the other avatar back...you know the one I'm talking about...it's hard for me to get all weak kneed over this one

[bluemoney]

Originally Posted by Nymph

You're so bad

oh, and I want the other avatar back...you know the one I'm talking about...it's hard for me to get all weak kneed over this one

I'm letting my "Inner child" run wild for a while

[Nymph]

Originally Posted by bluemoney

I'm letting my "Inner child" run wild for a while

Hmmmm, then I guess I best get that first date before it's too late?

[Jace]

2 don't mind letting the public know

mailman
XxXotic

I am asking more though, will keep you updated will

[CraigT]

[quote=Jace;809112]first time I heard that one

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by CraigT

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.

The fact that I hadn't heard of it either, that it wasn't posted on the WM boards, makes me seriously doubt that this actually took place. That kind of news gets posted to GFY at the very least, and then reposted to the other boards. It just doesn't fly under the radar very long.

[CraigT]

Originally Posted by Toby

The fact that I hadn't heard of it either, that it wasn't posted on the WM boards, makes me seriously doubt that this actually took place. That kind of news gets posted to GFY at the very least, and then reposted to the other boards. It just doesn't fly under the radar very long.

I think we all sometimes forget one thing.. There are people who post everything in the world, and there are people that just don't post. I think we all know that some of the most respected people in the industry really aren't posters and only lurk. So what ends up happening, unfortunately, is if we base our information on boards alone, we miss half the story.

Toby, you have been around, just like me, and think of the things you know, that have never made there way to the boards. The inside story. I think in this case, because all the sides will have their day and have their say in court, we will hear more first hand info than we usually do.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I think we all sometimes forget one thing.. There are people who post everything in the world, and there are people that just don't post. I think we all know that some of the most respected people in the industry really aren't posters and only lurk. So what ends up happening, unfortunately, is if we base our information on boards alone, we miss half the story.

Toby, you have been around, just like me, and think of the things you know, that have never made there way to the boards. The inside story. I think in this case, because all the sides will have their day and have their say in court, we will hear more first hand info than we usually do.

Some big players may have been paid under such an arrangement, behind the scenes, to keep things quiet, but there has been no efforts made to pay the rank and file affiliates. You know as well as I do that such information would never stay completely off the boards, and as an XclusiveCash affiliate I would have received notice of such an arrangement.

I'm not so sure we'll ever know the full story, but in this case it isn't necessary. I'll steal a quote from a discussion on this same topic on another board.
"It's so cut and dry, did the program owner get paid for joins, yes, did the program owners pay affiliates for the joins, no, end of fucking story."
That quote pretty much sums up my feelings on the topic.

[Jace]

[quote=CraigT;809139]

Originally Posted by Jace

first time I heard that one

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.

well, on most topics I would agree, but on this one I can say with almost 100% certainty, someone is lying to you

[CraigT]

[quote=Jace;809150]

Originally Posted by CraigT

well, on most topics I would agree, but on this one I can say with almost 100% certainty, someone is lying to you

Guys, i have to agree... Someone is lying. i think we will find out.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Shelleehale

On another note why is everyone all over Will?

Because I ask people questions apparently they don't want to answer. Although what you see here is nothing compared to abuse I got on GFY for asking simple questions. Not even close.

I am use to it. They way you post and what you saying... I have a feeling some people are going to give you a hard time too. Some people really don't like it when you make posts about them or their company in a bad light and they seem to have friends who will back them up and side with them.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

And that's the whole issue I have with the attitude. You're the new guy here, not me. You don't know enough about me, about what I do or don't know, to make those assumptions.

If I had a past history of posting unsubstantiated BS on the boards your point might be justified. But you just assumed that since I didn't specifically list names of all those that had been posting publicly at the time about not getting paid that my post was unjustified. That's bullshit.

As for people getting paid and not saying anything, sure that's not unusual, but not a single posting about getting paid in this case, especially by the those that had been so public about it, can pretty much be taken as confirmation that no payments have been made.

This is a discussion board not the New York Fuckin Times. I'm not a reporter, just a webmaster that doesn't care for seeing friends and colleagues cheated.

BTW, I've been posting on a number of adult webmaster boards for several years now, and on a few of them for longer than that. GFY is not one of them, but a number of the boards you've started posting at since getting the boot (undeservedly so IMO) from there are. Take the time to get to know me, I'm a pretty easy going guy most of the time. What you see is what you get, no time or need for board personas or hype.

It funny you say this..... " since I didn't specifically list names of all those that had been posting publicly at the time about not getting paid that my post was unjustified."


but then you say this.... " I'm not a reporter, just a webmaster that doesn't care for seeing friends and colleagues cheated. "

BUT YET YOU STILL DONT NAME NAMES????

so your "friends and collegues were cheated" ???


Why the big secret who they are, you said they were vocal, for the fucking love of god why can't ANYONE tell me who hasn't been paid by NR. I feel like I am dealing with the fucking government here.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Jace

first time I heard that one

and as for posting what others are owed based on private conversations with them is not something I do, sorry will...if I had seen some of these people post on the boards I would say their names in a heartbeat, but this was told me in private, and it will stay that way unless I am advised otherwise

ok so lets get this straight. You don't know anyone who has posted publicly that they weren't paid by NR, but you know 10+ people who consulted in you in private that they weren't paid and they wanted to keep it a secret..


yeah ok. lol.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

This is the first I've heard of this. Anyone out there lurking among those that actually got paid? Mailman from Medium Pimpin certainly wasn't one of them, he'd have said something.

So +1 that you know that wasn't paid and +/- 0 that you know that was

Hey now we are getting somewhere. maybe in abother 8 years at this pace we can actually find out how many people were or went paid honestly instead of just assuming and going off of board hearsay.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Jace

I guess my big question to Will is why do you have such a vested interest in this? just for gossip or are you writing a news story?

I know why I have interest in it, but I can't figure out why you do

you know me i am just a drama whore trying to find a new home and the current topic to bitch about.

Actually I missed the NR / NATS stuff the first go around, read up on it recently and in light of how John has been acting in the last 6 months i feel like poeple jumped to conlusions about NR and gave John way too much credit. The same guy that we recently find out merged with a company that a lot of ex ibill CEO, princple, and higher ups started as ibill was going down in flames. Amoungest other things John has done recently. The only people I see saying they were never paid were the same 3 people over and over again. I was curious if their situation had more to it, if others were paid or not paid.

And it was a very simple question. I have no vested interested however your admission that you do and the fact you claim you know 10+ people who want to be remain nameless who claim they werent paid, kind makes sense now.

It was just as simple question for me to find out for myself as best I could what happened. I hear you guys saying " no one was paid" " several people" but when i simple ask who NO ONE will answer me and i think that is a little odd to say the least.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Jace

2 don't mind letting the public know

mailman
XxXotic

I am asking more though, will keep you updated will

thats the same 2 I am pretty sure that I have seen post over and over about it on GFY and I bet the same 2 that other people here are making reference to when they make comments that no one had been paid. Please as keep me updated as the other 8 actually want to step up and let people know that they weren't paid. I am curious to see who the others are.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

Some big players may have been paid under such an arrangement, behind the scenes, to keep things quiet, but there has been no efforts made to pay the rank and file affiliates. You know as well as I do that such information would never stay completely off the boards, and as an XclusiveCash affiliate I would have received notice of such an arrangement.

I'm not so sure we'll ever know the full story, but in this case it isn't necessary. I'll steal a quote from a discussion on this same topic on another board.
"It's so cut and dry, did the program owner get paid for joins, yes, did the program owners pay affiliates for the joins, no, end of fucking story."
That quote pretty much sums up my feelings on the topic.

which ones would that be again?

[Toby]

Originally Posted by will76

So +1 that you know that wasn't paid and +/- 0 that you know that was

Hey now we are getting somewhere. maybe in abother 8 years at this pace we can actually find out how many people were or went paid honestly instead of just assuming and going off of board hearsay.

If you're going to be this nitpicky all the time, we're gonna continue to have issues. I'm not going to change how I post just to appease you, and I seriously doubt anyone else here will either.

Many of us are here are in our mid-40's or older and have been at this for quite some time. We're quite aware of what conclusions can and can't be made from posts on boards.

The particular post that I'd made back in November that you decided was out of line was a fairly general statement. The past history was already reasonably well known at the time. Your expectations for detailed supporting data for such comments are simply unreasonable, and I don't take kindly to having my integrity questioned. Gonzo seems comfortable enough with my integrity to make me a Mod here.

For the sake of making a point, let's turn this around 180 degrees. Prove me wrong. Post the name of just one XclusiveCash affiliate that has confirmed that they've been paid in full.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

If you're going to be this nitpicky all the time, we're gonna continue to have issues. I'm not going to change how I post just to appease you, and I seriously doubt anyone else here will either.

Many of us are here are in our mid-40's or older and have been at this for quite some time. We're quite aware of what conclusions can and can't be made from posts on boards.

Apparently I am just a pup at 32 compared to you guys and I have only been around for 9 years but i am new here, so hell what do i know.

If me asking you a simple question is going to piss you off then i guess we are going to have issues then. You continuing to say " they haven't paid ANY of their affiliates" and then I ask well who hasn't been paid and you can't tell me who (minus 2 people pointed out by jace) = me being nit picky???

The particular post that I'd made back in November that you decided was out of line was a fairly general statement. The past history was already reasonably well known at the time. Your expectations for detailed supporting data for such comments are simply unreasonable, and I don't take kindly to having my integrity questioned. Gonzo seems comfortable enough with my integrity to make me a Mod here.

What posts back in Novmenber are you talking about. I am referring to all of the posts you MADE IN THIS THREAD. If this past history is so well know then for christ sakes go back to the all of those threads and copy paste all of these people saying they weren't paid. Or just link me to the threads. Since it was so " well know" I am sure you can find the thread and all the people in question to point them out to me.

LOL I am questioning your integrity? I asked you to simply name the people you were making reference to... if your only supporting facts to those statements are " it was generally known blah blah etc.." then I am not the one calling your integrity into question, i think you doing that yourself. I just asked if you could SIMPLY point out the people you were making reference to. How hard is that?

For the sake of making a point, let's turn this around 180 degrees. Prove me wrong. Post the name of just one XclusiveCash affiliate that has confirmed that they've been paid in full.

here is a novel idea, for the sake of making a point.... just answer my question. Who are all of these people who are so well known that weren't paid that no one can point me to thread or post their names or anything? It's the greatest well known secret in the world apparently.

nice try on the 180 thing, If i was the person saying everyone was paid then it would be more appropriate for me to back up my statements. However, since you said none of their affiliates were paid, I am just trying to find the truth of the matter. I don't know anyone that was paid or wasn't paid, hence why I am asking questions.


its funny how you guys make such a big deal out of this and then try to turn it back on me.

here is a quick recap... you say " they haven't paid any of their affiliates"

I notice this and say really, interesting, wow so who wasn't paid?

50 posts later i still don't know, but i am the asshole for asking " who " when people make allegations like that.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by will76

What posts back in Novmenber are you talking about. I am referring to all of the posts you MADE IN THIS THREAD.

Note the dates on the posts. This was an older thread that Gonzo bumped with a new post about the new litigation. My post in THIS THREAD that you originally commented about was made last November in response to Gonzo's original post regarding the apparent pending resolution of prior litigation between Naked Rhino and TMM over the CCBill rebill issue.

Originally Posted by will76

I just asked if you could SIMPLY point out the people you were making reference to. How hard is that?

Who are all of these people who are so well known that weren't paid that no one can point me to thread.

If you want to know so badly, go read the posts across all the WM boards back at the time this all hit the fan in Summer/Fall of 2006. That is the history I'm referring to. I'm not going to go back and dig up all those details every time this topic get brought up again just to appease those that can't recall or weren't keeping up at the time.

[gonzo]

I was going to attach the legal stuff last night.

I can see now it dont matter.

Discovery is going to be a MAJOR bitch for one if not both of these companies.

The issue has become so cloudy at this point...I just got to wait till this ends up in court and as public record.

I think the information could be industry shaking.

One thing is for sure. Someone was stealing.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by will76

ok so lets get this straight. You don't know anyone who has posted publicly that they weren't paid by NR, but you know 10+ people who consulted in you in private that they weren't paid and they wanted to keep it a secret..


yeah ok. lol.

do you even have any idea of the connection I have to the xclusivecash mess? might wanna research a bit before doubting

[Jace]

will, unfortunately I am almost kind of bummed you decided to come here and start posting...I know gonzo loves the page views and all, but you are entirely too damn abrasive about every single fucking thing you chat about

think about it man, you are jumping my shit because I personally know at least 10 people that weren't paid by a program that scammed, yet because I won't break privacy with those people you are giving me shit?

maybe there are lawsuits pending? maybe what was told to me was in confidence? maybe, just maybe, I don't break confidence to appease some whiny jerk so he can get sig views?

I am already named in 2 lawsuits in this whole mess, I prefer not to make it 3 or 4 or 5

regardless, I am done talking about it for now......you are a broken record

[Jace]

I need to take that back

I am not bummed you decided to come here, sorry for that

I just think your personality is so abrasive sometimes about things, it makes for a hard discussion with you

[gonzo]

I like the truth.

I dont always agree with what Ive seen Will post and he certainly has his own style but you have to agree that he seems to care about this business.

There are so very few of us that do.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I like the truth.

I dont always agree with what Ive seen Will post and he certainly has his own style but you have to agree that he seems to care about this business.

There are so very few of us that do.

yeah, that is why I retracted what I said

will fights the good fight, I just wish he wasn't so abrasive with people that actually do care along side him.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Jace

I need to take that back

I am not bummed you decided to come here, sorry for that

I just think your personality is so abrasive sometimes about things, it makes for a hard discussion with you

You do seem to have that problem a lot. Perhaps you should seek help

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Jace

yeah, that is why I retracted what I said

will fights the good fight, I just wish he wasn't so abrasive with people that actually do care along side him.

Hes getting used to us all I think.

Ive seen him get his ass packed all day long over there.
It was entertaining just to see the blatant dicksucking by those on the various payrolls. You can almost see the alliances by those that are getting paid in one shape or form.

Shaneless shilling - you know - like you can tell when AlienQ has had a recent paying client and no matter what they do he has them plunged balls deep in his throat.

OH MOBILE! hahahaha

I dont think that turned out the way he thought it would either.

TIME THE AVENGER!

[Jace]

Originally Posted by gonzo

like you can tell when AlienQ has had a recent paying client and no matter what they do he has them plunged balls deep in his throat.

hahahahahahah...god he is fun to watch though

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Jace

hahahahahahah...god he is fun to watch though

Hes still not very good at this.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

Note the dates on the posts. This was an older thread that Gonzo bumped with a new post about the new litigation. My post in THIS THREAD that you originally commented about was made last November in response to Gonzo's original post regarding the apparent pending resolution of prior litigation between Naked Rhino and TMM over the CCBill rebill issue.

you got me there i am terrible with checking dates of posts i thought this was made recently BUT, you have said the same statements about 10 times since then so either way you feel the same way you did 5 months ago as you do now. I don't see the big deal if there is so many people that haven't been paid and it is so common knowledge that no one can point out who some of these people are.

If you want to know so badly, go read the posts across all the WM boards back at the time this all hit the fan in Summer/Fall of 2006. That is the history I'm referring to. I'm not going to go back and dig up all those details every time this topic get brought up again just to appease those that can't recall or weren't keeping up at the time.

It's not that i want to know so badly, i just thought anyone who would keep saying over and over that no one was paid etc.. would easily be able to show me why they think that way, those are strong allegations.... silly me for thinking that i guess.

So you are referring to posts that where made right when this happened orginally and NR lost their license to nats? At the time NR was locked out of nats and didn't have access to the stats to pay people. Um yeah I can see how people didn't get paid at that time. Have you seen posts (besided from the two people mentioend in this thread) that were made several months after all of this happened orginally. It seems logical to me that initially no one was paid, how could they be if NR was locked out of NATS admin. But is it possible that months later as they were able to figure it out and/or get access that they did pay people.

It sounds like you are making reference to all the initial posts, how many people did you hear saying several months later that they haven't been paid. Can you see where you would have this all wrong if it happened this way.

[Jace]

Here you go Will, you wants names of people owed money?

Bishop, Thomas Leech, Freeones, ShermShack, Mailman

those 5 are now on public record

[gonzo]

http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showt...797#post809797

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Jace

Here you go Will, you wants names of people owed money?

Bishop, Thomas Leech, Freeones, ShermShack, Mailman

those 5 are now on public record

The question I think being that if they cannot access the NATS system to figure out the payments due, how would they pay them? Further, from what I can see in the items posted by Gonzo, it would appear that the LLC that was running the sites is essentially dead.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

The question I think being that if they cannot access the NATS system to figure out the payments due, how would they pay them? Further, from what I can see in the items posted by Gonzo, it would appear that the LLC that was running the sites is essentially dead.

Half a million dollars income in a year for that program.

Those pdfs are a rich source of entertainment.

A LOT of information on this business can be gleaned by casually reading them. And if I realize that... you just can imagine what the Feds could extrapolate from reading this information.