So... Epoch terminated some Accounts with 24 hour notice

[Toby]

MARINA DEL REY, Calif. – An anonymous source exclusively told XBIZ that within the last six months several large adult affiliate networks have received termination notices from Epoch, an IPSP, stating it will cease providing processing services within 24 hours for unspecified reasons.

The letter reportedly highlights Epoch's termination clauses, as stated in its contract, and informs the recipient that though the company has violated one or more of the terms, it will not state the specific reason for termination.

The letter also states Epoch will not hand over members' credit card information, which prevents recipients from finding a replacement processor within the 24-hour termination period and makes all active memberships and rebills null and void.

Rand Pate, Epoch's director of communications, would not comment on the specifics of the letter.

"Epoch takes its processing seriously and is in business to protect its clients and portfolio of clients to ensure everyone stays in business for the long term," Pate told XBIZ. "We do not comment on specific cases in the interest of all associated partners."

XBIZ.com will have more information on this developing story tomorrow.

http://www.xbiz.com/news/103528

[gonzo]

SON!

And the mighty cross sale seminar out here too.
How fucking funny.

[Toby]

AND...

Banks have been sending out email to clients "warning" about Visa already having the same policy as MC regarding cross-sales and sharing cc data with other merchants.

All these cross-sale scammers are going to have to find a new business plan.

[TheEnforcer]

Ok.. while there are certainly some companies that take cross selling way too far cross selling as a practice in and of itself is not a bad thing as long as it's done the right way.

[softball]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Ok.. while there are certainly some companies that take cross selling way too far cross selling as a practice in and of itself is not a bad thing as long as it's done the right way.

The discussion isnt really about cross selling, its about theft. There is a difference.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

The discussion isnt really about cross selling, its about theft. There is a difference.

Yes, there is. That said many people just assume cross selling is a bad thing period which is not the case.

[bluemoney]

Get your popcorn gang! This should get real good soon!

[pornocruto]

Well it is a good move. Maybe more biller will follow.

[RawAlex]

For Visa and Mastercard, cross selling is only an issue I think when data is passed account to account, or from one group to another. pre-checks are a different issue, but general cross sales aren't an issue especially if you are cross selling to yourself (other sites in the same company).

As for this issue, apparently the XBIZ people are backing away from the story a little bit, and supporting materials that should have come out have just not made an appearance.

[Toby]

I think XBIZ got used big time on this one, not that I'm feeling the least bit sorry for them.

The unnamed source wanted this limited info to be published for whatever reason, perhaps to send a message to others to clean up their act. They knew that XBIZ would never run it without more details, hence the promise for "more tomorrow".

XBIZ runs with it to scoop the competition. The unnamed source gets what they wanted, without divulging the details that they never intended to give anyway.

I have a hunch about who the source likely is, but I'm not going to post a name on just a hunch.

[RawAlex]

Here's a tip for Xbiz: Never run a "more tomorrow" unless you already have the info in your hands.

Almost looks like someone trying to pull a hatchet job on Epoch.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Almost looks like someone trying to pull a hatchet job on Epoch.

I'm not so sure about that...

[RawAlex]

it certainly stirred some shit up and posts on various boards are suggesting all sorts of wild things, like Epoch terminating the accounts because the lack of new signups is causing problems for their chargeback rates and all sorts of other nonsense.

It was very interesting to see some of the pre-checked players suddenly moving away from that model, and as mentioned elsewhere, much less obvious bullshit at the show.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

it certainly stirred some shit up and posts on various boards are suggesting all sorts of wild things, like Epoch terminating the accounts because the lack of new signups is causing problems for their chargeback rates and all sorts of other nonsense.

It was very interesting to see some of the pre-checked players suddenly moving away from that model, and as mentioned elsewhere, much less obvious bullshit at the show.

You didnt hear some of them angling for new merchant accounts . . . SON!

[bluemoney]

Checking a few sites join pages I've found this

*(MasterCard customers excluded from this special offer) located by prechecked boxes

[Hell Puppy]

Hard to say what's being done in private between processor and their clients.

Logic dictates that it is in a processors best interest to keep volume, but prune problems.

I will say that again at the show, people were being much more selective about whose action they took. And I heard a lot of people naming names of companies they thought were bad for the business.

Again, Adult Friend Finder being the big one. And I agree with that. If you're doing business with them, you're part of the problem.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Hard to say what's being done in private between processor and their clients.

Logic dictates that it is in a processors best interest to keep volume, but prune problems.

I will say that again at the show, people were being much more selective about whose action they took. And I heard a lot of people naming names of companies they thought were bad for the business.

Again, Adult Friend Finder being the big one. And I agree with that. If you're doing business with them, you're part of the problem.

A tip of the hat for Steve Lightspeed saying the same thing in public.

[LAJ]

Originally Posted by gonzo

A tip of the hat for Steve Lightspeed saying the same thing in public.

Steve has balls... wish I had been at his seminar...

[softball]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

Hard to say what's being done in private between processor and their clients.

Logic dictates that it is in a processors best interest to keep volume, but prune problems.

I will say that again at the show, people were being much more selective about whose action they took. And I heard a lot of people naming names of companies they thought were bad for the business.

Again, Adult Friend Finder being the big one. And I agree with that. If you're doing business with them, you're part of the problem.

I am not in the same business as most of you guys, but this business has been going full steam for about a decade now, and I have survived it all, and that is about enough time to make some observations on the industry....if you can call it that.
There are scammers that come and go. They go because a:they are smart enough to take the money and run or b: they crash and burn and have put it up their nose.

There are the guys who just go from scam to scam and do well. I think that is what we are discussing here. They don't give a fff what you or I think. They have no conscience but make a lot of money. In the straight world, Madoff comes to mind. These guys will be whatever the next generation of AFF or Tubes becomes. They are prolly working on that at the moment.

There are the scammers who are not really bright, saved a few pennies tried to make the move to respectability, but could not....SON and are scratching a living doing what they really don't want to do....porn. The Joe Kennedy's of porn. Like some unnamed previous owners of this board.

I have no respect for any of the above. I have said often, anyone can get rich breaking the rules. Making a living with a clear conscience is much harder.

Just another rant from left field.

[RawAlex]

I do find it very interesting how the worm turned on AFF so quickly. 12 - 18 months ago Lars pretty much walked on water and was treated like god. This time, I saw him at the show dressed down, pretty much hiding upstairs, and avoiding public contact. He was very toned down and playing it very low key indeed.

If you check out the zoo, the opinion there is the same - few people take AFF's defence anymore, more people are realizing that AFF pretty much boned the porn industry and used stolen porn content to pump up it's bottom line (not directly, but by being the sponsors and direct ad buyers on some of the biggest tube and torrent sites around, the pretty much made themselves the defacto fences of stolen content).

AFF is borderline toxic at this point, and I think that the processors aren't that interested in that part of the business anymore.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I do find it very interesting how the worm turned on AFF so quickly. 12 - 18 months ago Lars pretty much walked on water and was treated like god. This time, I saw him at the show dressed down, pretty much hiding upstairs, and avoiding public contact. He was very toned down and playing it very low key indeed.

If you check out the zoo, the opinion there is the same - few people take AFF's defence anymore, more people are realizing that AFF pretty much boned the porn industry and used stolen porn content to pump up it's bottom line (not directly, but by being the sponsors and direct ad buyers on some of the biggest tube and torrent sites around, the pretty much made themselves the defacto fences of stolen content).

AFF is borderline toxic at this point, and I think that the processors aren't that interested in that part of the business anymore.

Just remember who defended AFF.
Eric, Lens and the rest of the "heros" at GFY with the deletion of threads and the ban of the most vocal people.

And I dont forget those that scoffed back when Streamray redirected my traffic to AFF. WHats the big deal you said? ZANGO was the big deal... the advertising was too expensive to include more than one domain to steal affiliates revenue from while keeping the traffic.

As some of you read this and remain silent... you know its true.

[RawAlex]

I think there is starting to be at least some realization that cannibalizing porn sales in order to make a few dating or cam sales isn't doing the porn business any good. Those sponsors do have their place in the business (and a decent size one too), but when the entire business model shifts to giving away porn in order to make AFF money, well...

The shift is on. Tough economic times mean that what was just a 20% loss is now the difference for some between profit and loss, and they are waking up angry.