Yall left Atlanta just in time

[Hell Puppy]

There's no gas here now.

I'm considering a sawed off shotgun, leathers and a dog...

Either that or we're joining the Hummungus.

[Toby]

Someone needs to come up with a flex fuel engine that will run on methane. I don't think there's much chance of a Bert's Chili shortage.

[Dravyk]

Ain't there plenty of moonshine down there you could use?




Sorry, sorry. I was watching a Blue Collar TV marathon this weekend.

[TheEnforcer]

Read a tory where one guy went to 10 different gas station an nada....

[tony404]

I went out to get gas two nights ago at 2am. I figured no long lines everybody in bed. After driving to every gas station in my area finding them all empty. I started driving on 41 towards kennesaw. I finally hit a qt and the line was about a mile long.Got in it and people were running out of gas while waiting in line. People pushing cars and I got lucky was able to fill up.Just as I was getting done, a lady next to me just pulled up in a minivan.She had been looking since acworth. She said it was coming out very slow, so it looked like they were running out. I lucked out.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by tony404

I went out to get gas two nights ago at 2am. I figured no long lines everybody in bed. After driving to every gas station in my area finding them all empty. I started driving on 41 towards kennesaw. I finally hit a qt and the line was about a mile long.Got in it and people were running out of gas while waiting in line. People pushing cars and I got lucky was able to fill up.Just as I was getting done, a lady next to me just pulled up in a minivan.She had been looking since acworth. She said it was coming out very slow, so it looked like they were running out. I lucked out.

I've passed very few stations with gas all weekend, and each had an enormous line.

I haven't seen premium since Friday night. I lucked out and filled up right after a tanker hit a BP in my area.

Everyone is panicing so everyone is topping off when they see gas whether they need it or not. It's making me want to do the same thing. I find myself with a bit of anxiety when I get near half a tank.

[softball]

How the fuck can that be? I just spent the weekend in Seattle and there was tons of gas. In Vancouver this is not even an issue. Maybe its time you guys got your politics in order.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

How the fuck can that be? I just spent the weekend in Seattle and there was tons of gas. In Vancouver this is not even an issue. Maybe its time you guys got your politics in order.

This is an example of what happens when the herd gets spooked. And it should scare the bejeezus out of anyone to think about what might happen if we had a real gas crunch where the entire country didn't know where the next tank full might come from...

Here's what happens...

Ike and Gustav slow production of gasoline coming out of the Gulf Coast. The refineries are just starting to get back to full speed. That is where the entire southeastern U.S. gets it's gasoline.

But that's just part of the problem.

You see, tree huggers a while back got concerned about the amount of smog hanging around Atlanta. Their brilliant idea to keep Atlanta from looking like LA was a special blend of gasoline for all counties in roughly a 75 mile radius of Atlanta that is low in sulfur. It's called a "boutique" blend.

Now this boutique gasoline is one of the last to get spun up. So last sunday it started to become somewhat difficult to find gas. Maybe half the stations were out.

Enter the news media!

GASOLINE SHORTAGE! All over the news. So the herd goes out and fills up everything they own that will hold gasoline. By Tuesday, more stations were out than had gas.

Now it's FUEL CRISIS!!!!! All over the news, the herd now starts topping off everytime they see gas and the governor finally convinces the EPA to lift our special requirements for blends to get as much gas as we can into the region.

Problem is, Georgia also has an anti-price-gouging law. Now this might sound good on the surface, but it prevents the free market from fixing itself. So you have a product EVERYONE wants and is panicing to buy, it's in short supply, but you cant raise the price.

So here's the current scene...tankers are rolling 24/7....and many of them have 10-20 cars following them (i shit you not!). Many stations that are empty have people camped waiting for the tankers to show up. So when a tanker rolls up, it drops it's load, and the station will empty it within 6-7 hours tops. People get on the internet, post where the gas is, get on their cell phones call their friends, and within 15 minutes of the tanker's arrival you'll have a quarter mile line in both directions of people wanting to get gas whether they need it right then or not for fear there wont be enough later when they do need it.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

This is an example of what happens when the herd gets spooked. And it should scare the bejeezus out of anyone to think about what might happen if we had a real gas crunch where the entire country didn't know where the next tank full might come from...

Here's what happens...

Ike and Gustav slow production of gasoline coming out of the Gulf Coast. The refineries are just starting to get back to full speed. That is where the entire southeastern U.S. gets it's gasoline.

But that's just part of the problem.

You see, tree huggers a while back got concerned about the amount of smog hanging around Atlanta. Their brilliant idea to keep Atlanta from looking like LA was a special blend of gasoline for all counties in roughly a 75 mile radius of Atlanta that is low in sulfur. It's called a "boutique" blend.

Now this boutique gasoline is one of the last to get spun up. So last sunday it started to become somewhat difficult to find gas. Maybe half the stations were out.

Enter the news media!

GASOLINE SHORTAGE! All over the news. So the herd goes out and fills up everything they own that will hold gasoline. By Tuesday, more stations were out than had gas.

Now it's FUEL CRISIS!!!!! All over the news, the herd now starts topping off everytime they see gas and the governor finally convinces the EPA to lift our special requirements for blends to get as much gas as we can into the region.

Problem is, Georgia also has an anti-price-gouging law. Now this might sound good on the surface, but it prevents the free market from fixing itself. So you have a product EVERYONE wants and is panicing to buy, it's in short supply, but you cant raise the price.

So here's the current scene...tankers are rolling 24/7....and many of them have 10-20 cars following them (i shit you not!). Many stations that are empty have people camped waiting for the tankers to show up. So when a tanker rolls up, it drops it's load, and the station will empty it within 6-7 hours tops. People get on the internet, post where the gas is, get on their cell phones call their friends, and within 15 minutes of the tanker's arrival you'll have a quarter mile line in both directions of people wanting to get gas whether they need it right then or not for fear there wont be enough later when they do need it.

Its like the 70's all over again. But here is the big question. If all this gas produced in the gulf is destined for the south. Why do the gas prices go up in Canada and the rest of the US? BTW, I disagree with you that the free market can fix this. Look at the economy today. That is the free market in full cry.....on bended knee.....asking for welfare payments because the free market does not work. Period.

[Dravyk]

Between this subject here, Ike in the other thread where Toby got electricity after two weeks, the Wall Street debacle ... Feels like America regressed a good 50-60 years.

To quote Lennon, strange days indeed.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Its like the 70's all over again. But here is the big question. If all this gas produced in the gulf is destined for the south. Why do the gas prices go up in Canada and the rest of the US?

The Gulf supplies many areas, but markets such as Atlanta, Charlotte, Nashville are fed ONLY from the gulf. Now interestingly enough, Katrina did much more damage and we only had a couple of days where gas prices spiked and a few lines, but nothing like this although the damage was less.

Drill off the coast of Florida and we never have this problem again. Well at least not for another decade when the middle east hits max production and the world supply starts a downward trend.

BTW, I disagree with you that the free market can fix this. Look at the economy today. That is the free market in full cry.....on bended knee.....asking for welfare payments because the free market does not work. Period.

It's not a pure free market, it's a market tampered with by government regulations. This whole economic crunch is directly tied to bad loans. The so-called "sub prime" loans. Banks were encouraged and incented to take a chance and write loans to people who were high risk.

Again, I refer you to the Community Reinvestment Act and specifically the 1995 revisions put in by Clinton. Google it.


The U.S. conversion to socialism is inevitable at this point. I think this winds up being the first big step in that direction. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. The government hasn't shown me one thing they can run efficiently, why should I want to turn over even more power and control to them?

[miz_wright]

*growls*

Between the sheeple and the media insanity, things in Charlotte are getting a little wacky these days. But head down 85 just a bit (on down towards Greenville, 'roundabout Gaffney), and there's plenty... and relatively inexpensive, too.

[softball]

The U.S. conversion to socialism is inevitable at this point. I think this winds up being the first big step in that direction. But that doesn't mean I have to like it. The government hasn't shown me one thing they can run efficiently

They haven't been given a chance. The free market has never worked and that is why it gets meddled with. Pure socialism never works and that is why it doesn't exist. I have lived in a fucked up Socialist country (USSR) and I have lived in fucked up capitalist economies (Canada and the UK). Both of which took care of themselves with a certain amount of socialism to rein in the greedy bastard capitalists. Greed is not necessarily good. It does not provide clean water, good health care or safe transportation. This has been proven recently in England.
The United States has never given any kind of codified socialism a chance. An equitable distribution of the wealth leads to a safer, healthier environment. When too much of the wealth is horded by too few, crime runs rampant. It ultimately leads to revolution. That is what happened in Russia in 1917. For those who say it can't happen here and now, think again. There is nothing new under the sun and history does and will repeat itself.
If you really believe in the unfettered free market, you only have to look at the porn business since the internet and see the scum that slither between the legal cracks. This JMM thing is just one incident in a litany of "free trader" incidents.

Fuck all the excuses about sub prime crap. If these "capitalists" had rang alarm bells months ago, this could have been avoided. But they were scumbags in guccis and it all came down in one week. What happened to "one if by land, two if by sea".

America has lost the conscience it once had that made it a great among nations. Now it has become a greedy bully that got its shins kicked since Iraq and is crying crocodile tears and begging the world to understand.

Sad state of affairs.

[softball]

I knew this was going to be a conversation stopper. Its the uncomfortable reality and no one wants to deal with this on a "business" board. But folks, this is business and effects you way more than a tgp or a tube site. Or prove me wrong.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

I knew this was going to be a conversation stopper. Its the uncomfortable reality and no one wants to deal with this on a "business" board. But folks, this is business and effects you way more than a tgp or a tube site. Or prove me wrong.

Or it could just be that some of us dont hang out on the boards all day.

[Hell Puppy]

This is worth a watch....

[Hell Puppy]

When you get right down to it, here's my problem with America today...

People have no sense of self responsibility. They want and expect the government to take care of them and protect them. I'm on the other hand very much an individualist.

I do not want the government managing my life. I'm a big boy, I make my own decisions. I will make my own way, I want to reap the rewards when I'm successful. I will also make mistakes, and I will own up to them and make up for them. I want the government to protect our soil from foreign intrusion, build a few highways and provide a level playing field in the marketplace.

I'm seemingly at the tail end of the last generation to largely feel that way. Not sure where or how we lost it, but America has gotten lazy. Everyone wants the government to fix everything. And now you have more and more class warfare sneaking into America's politics, I largely blame the media for that.

Most people who are not well off consider anyone who is to be "evil rich". Their money should be taken and put to the use of the greater good. That's beyond socialism, that's pure Marxism, and Obama supports it. Where's the incentive to achieve?

I guess I'm a greedy bastard, but I get upset when someone calls me "lucky" or someone who has been broke as a joke since they left high school refers to themselves as "unlucky". Luck has fuck all to do with it. I've worked my ass off. And the broke ones? Lazy as shit in most cases or at best they work, but make dumb ass life decisions such as having 4-5 kids when they cant even afford to support themselves or have no education yet to go get a job and provide a decent life for them.

But along comes the socialists, let's just take more money from those who have done well and use it to provide food, clothes, healthcare and whatever else baby mama and the kids need. I'm not greedy, I'm really not, but explain to me where the fairness is in that?

[miz_wright]

Originally Posted by rhetorical

Fuck all the excuses about sub prime crap. If these "capitalists" had rang alarm bells months ago, this could have been avoided. But they were scumbags in guccis and it all came down in one week. What happened to "one if by land, two if by sea".
{snip}
Sad state of affairs.

I agree it is a sad state of affairs, but the "sub-prime crap," as you so eloquently word it, was actually the warning bell for the US economic melt-down and emblematic of the greater concern: wild speculation and hedging against commodities and real property. It's not much different, really, than the wild margining against (uh, oh - here's the part where it gets ugly) web properties in the late 90s - only this time, it was actual goods instead of cyberspace that people gambled with, so the meltdown has a much more immediate fallout against the general populace and not just Silicon Valley.

The current situation stems almost directly from mortgages that were based on non-existent down payments and structuring loans in ways that had nothing other than over-priced property to back them - and the assumption (endemic in boom economies) that the property values underlying those papers would continue to rise. As the market contracted - which was fairly apparent would happen after the meteoric rise in property values stateside - those values dropped - which also should've been readily apparent to those whose job it is to make markets in such things - leaving the securities backed with nothing more than a hope and a dream.

Because those mortgages had been repackaged and sold as a "can't lose" proposition by those who should've known better, and bought up by others that should've been able to look at the underlying math - well, hello, stupidity and greedy investors.

[RawAlex]

Part of the problems these days is that the "news media" has turned into the biggest bunch of speculators, pontificators, and out right fear mongerers. A gas provisioning issue in the Atlanta area has become a "fuel crisis in the south", stretched all out of proportion.

The stock market is no better, fueled by instant analysis and trigger happy computer programs, traders make moves so dramatic and so huge because each little piece of bad news is amplified and echoed, over and over until it is deafening. They end up as a bunch of computerized sheep selling because of this or buying because of that and few seeming to have the balls to stay the course, at least in the mid term.

Too few facts, too many opinions, and not enough true judgement.

[miz_wright]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Part of the problems these days is that the "news media" has turned into the biggest bunch of speculators, pontificators, and out right fear mongerers. A gas provisioning issue in the Atlanta area has become a "fuel crisis in the south", stretched all out of proportion.

It's not just Atlanta, though - most of the Southeast gets the majority of its fuel inventory from the Gulf. Asheville, Charlotte, Raleigh, and other SE cities are by and large out of fuel too.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

This is worth a watch....

Not only not worth the time to watch, but a blatant re-writing of history to tilt things hard to one side. No mention of the fact that the republican party controlled the house and senate for years and remarkably passed all these bills into law.

Sorry, but if you are going to post propaganda, at least have the manners to mention it.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Not only not worth the time to watch, but a blatant re-writing of history to tilt things hard to one side. No mention of the fact that the republican party controlled the house and senate for years and remarkably passed all these bills into law.

Sorry, but if you are going to post propaganda, at least have the manners to mention it.

Put your bias aside and go do some research. I did. I've been preaching CRA as root cause of all of this for weeks.

The regulations were changed in 1995 at the direction of one William Jefferson Clinton...democrat. Specifically the regulations were changed by The Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, a Clinton appointed position.

Go look at the attempts to reign all of this in since 2003, all of the Republican initiated, all of them voted down. Plenty of blame to go around on both sides.

One of the attempts was initiated by John McCain. As for Obama, you cant deny all of his ties to Fannie Mae.

No propaganda, all facts. Go do your homework.

Now with all of that said, I dont think either candidate or party is capable of fixing this mess. But we do know the democratic answer is turn the economy over the government, and that scares the shit out of me.

[Toby]

The really sad part is that there is no viable third party capable of stepping up and taking advantage of the ineptitude of both the Democrats and Republicans.

Anyone actually qualified and capable of dealing with the mess wants absolutely no part in the job.

[tony404]

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ic_crisis.html
no cra sorry they all caused it and add a good helping of greed.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by tony404

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...ic_crisis.html
no cra sorry they all caused it and add a good helping of greed.

No one is going to accept responsibility. And again, plenty of blame to go around.

It lays at the feet of a disfunctional government and the power crazed bureaucrats who run it. They pander for votes to keep their seats rather than doing what's right.

And the American voter is a dumb beast for the most part. Dont believe it? This is one election where the voters should fire the lot of them. But watch what a high percentage of incumbents get sent right back to Washington to keep running things the way it has been for years and years.

And now the people are screaming help me help me help me and the government is going to be more than happy to step in and take even more control and a higher percentage of our paychecks to pay for it all.