Naked Rhino VS NATS

[CraigT]

I tend to agree with the line of thought.

For the contrary side... here is what i heard...


I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

Even though they were closed, they paid the affiliates based on what they were told by the affiliates out of the own pockets. I also know that a lot of these affiliates still work with Naked Rhino's new program to this day...

I also heard that a few affiliates couldn't be paid. So you have to ask yourself, why would they pay some affiliates but not all. From my experience in the billing world, their are some hard and fast rules as to why you pay affiliates, and why you don't , and the reasons are ever pretty about the affiliate. There are always two sides to every story.

I also notice it is the exact same people who bash one side...without any desire to hear the other side. This always concerns me when one side is always presented without hearing the other side.

I too have been around the block, and I too don't make posts or allegations lightly. I have not come into this argument lately, I just tend to watch a lot of the bashing that people do with getting involved.

There are some very hard accusations here on both sides. Where is the proof, and what happens when the minority speak for the majority. The one thing I think is going to happen for certain is when the information comes out, (it usually does) it won't be pretty, and will cause some to have to rethink their opinions. I am glad people take sides, I think too much apathy is certainly a bad thing. Just be careful before choosing sides.

[Sexyteaser]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I tend to agree with the line of thought.

For the contrary side... here is what i heard...


I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

I wish I had a Naked Rhino right now I would load it the truck and drop it off on someone's front yard.... OMG I just did not give that idea away.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

first time I heard that one

and as for posting what others are owed based on private conversations with them is not something I do, sorry will...if I had seen some of these people post on the boards I would say their names in a heartbeat, but this was told me in private, and it will stay that way unless I am advised otherwise

[CraigT]

[quote=Jace;809112]first time I heard that one

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by CraigT

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.

The fact that I hadn't heard of it either, that it wasn't posted on the WM boards, makes me seriously doubt that this actually took place. That kind of news gets posted to GFY at the very least, and then reposted to the other boards. It just doesn't fly under the radar very long.

[CraigT]

Originally Posted by Toby

The fact that I hadn't heard of it either, that it wasn't posted on the WM boards, makes me seriously doubt that this actually took place. That kind of news gets posted to GFY at the very least, and then reposted to the other boards. It just doesn't fly under the radar very long.

I think we all sometimes forget one thing.. There are people who post everything in the world, and there are people that just don't post. I think we all know that some of the most respected people in the industry really aren't posters and only lurk. So what ends up happening, unfortunately, is if we base our information on boards alone, we miss half the story.

Toby, you have been around, just like me, and think of the things you know, that have never made there way to the boards. The inside story. I think in this case, because all the sides will have their day and have their say in court, we will hear more first hand info than we usually do.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I think we all sometimes forget one thing.. There are people who post everything in the world, and there are people that just don't post. I think we all know that some of the most respected people in the industry really aren't posters and only lurk. So what ends up happening, unfortunately, is if we base our information on boards alone, we miss half the story.

Toby, you have been around, just like me, and think of the things you know, that have never made there way to the boards. The inside story. I think in this case, because all the sides will have their day and have their say in court, we will hear more first hand info than we usually do.

Some big players may have been paid under such an arrangement, behind the scenes, to keep things quiet, but there has been no efforts made to pay the rank and file affiliates. You know as well as I do that such information would never stay completely off the boards, and as an XclusiveCash affiliate I would have received notice of such an arrangement.

I'm not so sure we'll ever know the full story, but in this case it isn't necessary. I'll steal a quote from a discussion on this same topic on another board.
"It's so cut and dry, did the program owner get paid for joins, yes, did the program owners pay affiliates for the joins, no, end of fucking story."
That quote pretty much sums up my feelings on the topic.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

Some big players may have been paid under such an arrangement, behind the scenes, to keep things quiet, but there has been no efforts made to pay the rank and file affiliates. You know as well as I do that such information would never stay completely off the boards, and as an XclusiveCash affiliate I would have received notice of such an arrangement.

I'm not so sure we'll ever know the full story, but in this case it isn't necessary. I'll steal a quote from a discussion on this same topic on another board.
"It's so cut and dry, did the program owner get paid for joins, yes, did the program owners pay affiliates for the joins, no, end of fucking story."
That quote pretty much sums up my feelings on the topic.

which ones would that be again?

[Jace]

[quote=CraigT;809139]

Originally Posted by Jace

first time I heard that one

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.

well, on most topics I would agree, but on this one I can say with almost 100% certainty, someone is lying to you

[CraigT]

[quote=Jace;809150]

Originally Posted by CraigT

well, on most topics I would agree, but on this one I can say with almost 100% certainty, someone is lying to you

Guys, i have to agree... Someone is lying. i think we will find out.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Jace

first time I heard that one

and as for posting what others are owed based on private conversations with them is not something I do, sorry will...if I had seen some of these people post on the boards I would say their names in a heartbeat, but this was told me in private, and it will stay that way unless I am advised otherwise

ok so lets get this straight. You don't know anyone who has posted publicly that they weren't paid by NR, but you know 10+ people who consulted in you in private that they weren't paid and they wanted to keep it a secret..


yeah ok. lol.

[Jace]

Originally Posted by will76

ok so lets get this straight. You don't know anyone who has posted publicly that they weren't paid by NR, but you know 10+ people who consulted in you in private that they weren't paid and they wanted to keep it a secret..


yeah ok. lol.

do you even have any idea of the connection I have to the xclusivecash mess? might wanna research a bit before doubting

[Toby]

Originally Posted by CraigT

I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

This is the first I've heard of this. Anyone out there lurking among those that actually got paid? Mailman from Medium Pimpin certainly wasn't one of them, he'd have said something.

[Jace]

I guess my big question to Will is why do you have such a vested interest in this? just for gossip or are you writing a news story?

I know why I have interest in it, but I can't figure out why you do

[will76]

Originally Posted by Jace

I guess my big question to Will is why do you have such a vested interest in this? just for gossip or are you writing a news story?

I know why I have interest in it, but I can't figure out why you do

you know me i am just a drama whore trying to find a new home and the current topic to bitch about.

Actually I missed the NR / NATS stuff the first go around, read up on it recently and in light of how John has been acting in the last 6 months i feel like poeple jumped to conlusions about NR and gave John way too much credit. The same guy that we recently find out merged with a company that a lot of ex ibill CEO, princple, and higher ups started as ibill was going down in flames. Amoungest other things John has done recently. The only people I see saying they were never paid were the same 3 people over and over again. I was curious if their situation had more to it, if others were paid or not paid.

And it was a very simple question. I have no vested interested however your admission that you do and the fact you claim you know 10+ people who want to be remain nameless who claim they werent paid, kind makes sense now.

It was just as simple question for me to find out for myself as best I could what happened. I hear you guys saying " no one was paid" " several people" but when i simple ask who NO ONE will answer me and i think that is a little odd to say the least.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

This is the first I've heard of this. Anyone out there lurking among those that actually got paid? Mailman from Medium Pimpin certainly wasn't one of them, he'd have said something.

So +1 that you know that wasn't paid and +/- 0 that you know that was

Hey now we are getting somewhere. maybe in abother 8 years at this pace we can actually find out how many people were or went paid honestly instead of just assuming and going off of board hearsay.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by will76

So +1 that you know that wasn't paid and +/- 0 that you know that was

Hey now we are getting somewhere. maybe in abother 8 years at this pace we can actually find out how many people were or went paid honestly instead of just assuming and going off of board hearsay.

If you're going to be this nitpicky all the time, we're gonna continue to have issues. I'm not going to change how I post just to appease you, and I seriously doubt anyone else here will either.

Many of us are here are in our mid-40's or older and have been at this for quite some time. We're quite aware of what conclusions can and can't be made from posts on boards.

The particular post that I'd made back in November that you decided was out of line was a fairly general statement. The past history was already reasonably well known at the time. Your expectations for detailed supporting data for such comments are simply unreasonable, and I don't take kindly to having my integrity questioned. Gonzo seems comfortable enough with my integrity to make me a Mod here.

For the sake of making a point, let's turn this around 180 degrees. Prove me wrong. Post the name of just one XclusiveCash affiliate that has confirmed that they've been paid in full.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

If you're going to be this nitpicky all the time, we're gonna continue to have issues. I'm not going to change how I post just to appease you, and I seriously doubt anyone else here will either.

Many of us are here are in our mid-40's or older and have been at this for quite some time. We're quite aware of what conclusions can and can't be made from posts on boards.

Apparently I am just a pup at 32 compared to you guys and I have only been around for 9 years but i am new here, so hell what do i know.

If me asking you a simple question is going to piss you off then i guess we are going to have issues then. You continuing to say " they haven't paid ANY of their affiliates" and then I ask well who hasn't been paid and you can't tell me who (minus 2 people pointed out by jace) = me being nit picky???

The particular post that I'd made back in November that you decided was out of line was a fairly general statement. The past history was already reasonably well known at the time. Your expectations for detailed supporting data for such comments are simply unreasonable, and I don't take kindly to having my integrity questioned. Gonzo seems comfortable enough with my integrity to make me a Mod here.

What posts back in Novmenber are you talking about. I am referring to all of the posts you MADE IN THIS THREAD. If this past history is so well know then for christ sakes go back to the all of those threads and copy paste all of these people saying they weren't paid. Or just link me to the threads. Since it was so " well know" I am sure you can find the thread and all the people in question to point them out to me.

LOL I am questioning your integrity? I asked you to simply name the people you were making reference to... if your only supporting facts to those statements are " it was generally known blah blah etc.." then I am not the one calling your integrity into question, i think you doing that yourself. I just asked if you could SIMPLY point out the people you were making reference to. How hard is that?

For the sake of making a point, let's turn this around 180 degrees. Prove me wrong. Post the name of just one XclusiveCash affiliate that has confirmed that they've been paid in full.

here is a novel idea, for the sake of making a point.... just answer my question. Who are all of these people who are so well known that weren't paid that no one can point me to thread or post their names or anything? It's the greatest well known secret in the world apparently.

nice try on the 180 thing, If i was the person saying everyone was paid then it would be more appropriate for me to back up my statements. However, since you said none of their affiliates were paid, I am just trying to find the truth of the matter. I don't know anyone that was paid or wasn't paid, hence why I am asking questions.


its funny how you guys make such a big deal out of this and then try to turn it back on me.

here is a quick recap... you say " they haven't paid any of their affiliates"

I notice this and say really, interesting, wow so who wasn't paid?

50 posts later i still don't know, but i am the asshole for asking " who " when people make allegations like that.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by will76

What posts back in Novmenber are you talking about. I am referring to all of the posts you MADE IN THIS THREAD.

Note the dates on the posts. This was an older thread that Gonzo bumped with a new post about the new litigation. My post in THIS THREAD that you originally commented about was made last November in response to Gonzo's original post regarding the apparent pending resolution of prior litigation between Naked Rhino and TMM over the CCBill rebill issue.

Originally Posted by will76

I just asked if you could SIMPLY point out the people you were making reference to. How hard is that?

Who are all of these people who are so well known that weren't paid that no one can point me to thread.

If you want to know so badly, go read the posts across all the WM boards back at the time this all hit the fan in Summer/Fall of 2006. That is the history I'm referring to. I'm not going to go back and dig up all those details every time this topic get brought up again just to appease those that can't recall or weren't keeping up at the time.

[gonzo]

I was going to attach the legal stuff last night.

I can see now it dont matter.

Discovery is going to be a MAJOR bitch for one if not both of these companies.

The issue has become so cloudy at this point...I just got to wait till this ends up in court and as public record.

I think the information could be industry shaking.

One thing is for sure. Someone was stealing.

[will76]

Originally Posted by Toby

Note the dates on the posts. This was an older thread that Gonzo bumped with a new post about the new litigation. My post in THIS THREAD that you originally commented about was made last November in response to Gonzo's original post regarding the apparent pending resolution of prior litigation between Naked Rhino and TMM over the CCBill rebill issue.

you got me there i am terrible with checking dates of posts i thought this was made recently BUT, you have said the same statements about 10 times since then so either way you feel the same way you did 5 months ago as you do now. I don't see the big deal if there is so many people that haven't been paid and it is so common knowledge that no one can point out who some of these people are.

If you want to know so badly, go read the posts across all the WM boards back at the time this all hit the fan in Summer/Fall of 2006. That is the history I'm referring to. I'm not going to go back and dig up all those details every time this topic get brought up again just to appease those that can't recall or weren't keeping up at the time.

It's not that i want to know so badly, i just thought anyone who would keep saying over and over that no one was paid etc.. would easily be able to show me why they think that way, those are strong allegations.... silly me for thinking that i guess.

So you are referring to posts that where made right when this happened orginally and NR lost their license to nats? At the time NR was locked out of nats and didn't have access to the stats to pay people. Um yeah I can see how people didn't get paid at that time. Have you seen posts (besided from the two people mentioend in this thread) that were made several months after all of this happened orginally. It seems logical to me that initially no one was paid, how could they be if NR was locked out of NATS admin. But is it possible that months later as they were able to figure it out and/or get access that they did pay people.

It sounds like you are making reference to all the initial posts, how many people did you hear saying several months later that they haven't been paid. Can you see where you would have this all wrong if it happened this way.