nanny state Mentality

[RawAlex]

I am not sure what "citation" you are talking about in Virginia, the costs to register and plate a car in that state are pretty low:

http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/citizen/fees.asp

$10 for the title, and under $40 for a car under 4000lbs.

Not exactly sure where you are going.

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Anyway, the point is this: Roads cost a ton, registering and keeping a car on the road in government fees is often far below what it costs to keep the roads there. How do they pay for it? Sin taxes, surcharges, tolls, and other fees that people won't notice (feds use tools like gas taxes to generate income). Taxing the crap out of strip clubs both creates desired income, while putting down those evil adult entertainment places. Politically it is a double win.

Also, taxation, as long as it is evenly applied to all similar businesses, is pretty hard to get struck down. "free speech" doesn't really have to be free, just not restricted in manners that stop or discourage the free speech from occurring. They aren't taxing free speech, they are taxing people who want to listen to the free speech.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

I am not sure what "citation" you are talking about in Virginia, the costs to register and plate a car in that state are pretty low:

http://www.dmv.virginia.gov/webdoc/citizen/fees.asp

$10 for the title, and under $40 for a car under 4000lbs.

Not exactly sure where you are going.

----

Anyway, the point is this: Roads cost a ton, registering and keeping a car on the road in government fees is often far below what it costs to keep the roads there. How do they pay for it? Sin taxes, surcharges, tolls, and other fees that people won't notice (feds use tools like gas taxes to generate income). Taxing the crap out of strip clubs both creates desired income, while putting down those evil adult entertainment places. Politically it is a double win.

Also, taxation, as long as it is evenly applied to all similar businesses, is pretty hard to get struck down. "free speech" doesn't really have to be free, just not restricted in manners that stop or discourage the free speech from occurring. They aren't taxing free speech, they are taxing people who want to listen to the free speech.

Not "going" anywhere.....be a resident and get pulled over. You'll find out about the "random tax."

Anyhow, you forget about the 60% road taxes, etc in a gallon of gas. That's a HUGE chunk of money to pay for the roads. And, where it properly should be. As a "consumption" tax. The more you drive, the more you wear the roads, the more you pay. The states use those fees too, not just the feds.

And your remark about "not taxing free speech" is just ridiculous. Like the tree falling in the forest; if you have no one to hear it, you have no speech.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by EmporerEJ

Not "going" anywhere.....be a resident and get pulled over. You'll find out about the "random tax."

Anyhow, you forget about the 60% road taxes, etc in a gallon of gas. That's a HUGE chunk of money to pay for the roads. And, where it properly should be. As a "consumption" tax. The more you drive, the more you wear the roads, the more you pay. The states use those fees too, not just the feds.

And your remark about "not taxing free speech" is just ridiculous. Like the tree falling in the forest; if you have no one to hear it, you have no speech.

Ahh, well, if you get pulled over for breaking the law, you pay the fine, whatever that is. It isn't a tax, unless you consider it a tax on being stupid enough to get caught.

The courts in most countries have long held that the governments can tax stuff, pretty much anything they like, provided that the tax is applied equally to everyone that it applies to. The gas tax you mention is pretty much the same thing: The more strip clubs you visit, the more tax you pay. The only time you can ever fight one of these things is when the tax makes it impossible for people to hear the free speech (say like a $1000 tax would). $20 is nothing, considering most people who go to a strip club will drop hundreds on drinks and dancers. It would be hard to find a court to throw out that sort of amusement tax.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

Ahh, well, if you get pulled over for breaking the law, you pay the fine, whatever that is. It isn't a tax, unless you consider it a tax on being stupid enough to get caught.

The courts in most countries have long held that the governments can tax stuff, pretty much anything they like, provided that the tax is applied equally to everyone that it applies to. The gas tax you mention is pretty much the same thing: The more strip clubs you visit, the more tax you pay. The only time you can ever fight one of these things is when the tax makes it impossible for people to hear the free speech (say like a $1000 tax would). $20 is nothing, considering most people who go to a strip club will drop hundreds on drinks and dancers. It would be hard to find a court to throw out that sort of amusement tax.

Yea, we can argue how about when a "fine equal to the crime" exceeds, and becomes abusive. $3K for speeding? I think everyone will agree that's abusive. And it's only applied to citizens of VA. I hate to go ad nauseum on this, but YOU brought up VA.

As for the rest, I give up. You simply refuse to see my point. I'll wait for the tax to make it's way through the courts, and be found unconstitutional.
It doesn't directly affect me, and I have to choose my battles.
Gods knows, there are enough battles to keep us hopping.

[RawAlex]

I gotta say you have me wondering here.

You brought up Virginia, I didn't. You mentioned it, I responded. Is the fine excessive? It all depends on how you look at it, I guess. It isn't the point, because fines are attached to breaking the law, taxes and levies are not.

As for the rest of it, well, I wish luck to the people who may oppose it, but I think they will find themselves facing a pretty blank wall of "equally applied".