Simple things work best when looking for sign ups.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Coming up with a new Bangbus will hardly be easy and I only use it as an example. The point is that a site with awesome exclusive teen content will do better than most teen sites, but unless it has something to make it really unique, it will never do be a sensation. Now, if you add something to make it standout, like Teen Survivor Island or something, then you'll clean up.

I agree, but does a site need to be a sensation to succeed?

I know one site that made a profit within 6 months and now provides a very steady income for it's owners and it no sensation.

Waiting for the Bang Bus is going to make people a lot less money.

[spazlabz]

First great post for a sticky.. good Job Oprano

second, I have sent this thread to a number of people, i think the information contained in this thread is very valueable ... Thanks for the killer post Paul Markham


spaz

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

First great post for a sticky.. good Job Oprano

second, I have sent this thread to a number of people, i think the information contained in this thread is very valueable ... Thanks for the killer post Paul Markham


spaz

Thank you.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I know one site that made a profit within 6 months and now provides a very steady income for it's owners and it no sensation.

Sure, it's not impossible to make a decent living from a decent site, but my original answer to you was in response to your question asking the difference between a site that converts at 1:2000 and one that converts at 1:200. I seriously doubt that an average site can convert at 1:200 without exclusive content and either extremely good content, or something unusual that grabs someone by the balls and doesn't let go until they pull out their credit card.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Sure, it's not impossible to make a decent living from a decent site, but my original answer to you was in response to your question asking the difference between a site that converts at 1:2000 and one that converts at 1:200. I seriously doubt that an average site can convert at 1:200 without exclusive content and either extremely good content, or something unusual that grabs someone by the balls and doesn't let go until they pull out their credit card.

When it comes to converting niche traffic, you gotta know your niche thoroughly. Teen "niche" Big tits "niche" etc. etc. etc. are really mainstream porn and not niche at all. Calling them niche is like calling the porn business a niche in the entertainment business. Niche is something very, very specific. You can be staring it in the face and miss it. When the affcianado of a niche sees it. His credit card slides smoothly out of his wallet because he can't help himself. If you have thousands of people competing for the business, it is hardly a niche.
I think a more appropriate term is boutique. Low traffic volume, large profit margins and great conversions. Marketing niche traffic is best done by someone who is an enthusiast. It is quite simple. In the niche business there are tons of free sites....really free...like they make no money...who will send you focussed traffic at no cost at all. What could be better?
Someone on this board once said if you even use the word mainstream, then you probably are a pornographer. Mainstream webmasters are just...well...webmasters.
In the niche business, the word niche is never used.
Most mainstream porn webmasters do a bad job at niche marketing because they have no idea how to do it. Just throwing huge volumes of traffic at it just doesn't work.

Oh yeah, and this is a great thread.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Sure, it's not impossible to make a decent living from a decent site, but my original answer to you was in response to your question asking the difference between a site that converts at 1:2000 and one that converts at 1:200. I seriously doubt that an average site can convert at 1:200 without exclusive content and either extremely good content, or something unusual that grabs someone by the balls and doesn't let go until they pull out their credit card.

I doubt if the content was exclusive the surfer would sign up any faster and for us I proved it.

On this page http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour/updates.php we have 9 pieces of exclusive content, it will be exclusive on our site for 2-3 months. Do you think by putting a banner over the content saying "Exclusive" would make the surfer sign up faster? We did it with the original 2 tours and with this one, until we dropped the banner when sign ups rose. It seems the banner took something away from the surfer.

I seriously doubt with all the crap sites out there with "Exclusive" content on them the surfer of today is that impressed with just the word. To him it's porn nothing more and nothing less.

Now if we were to give all the content a twist like I was in every set, I'm sure conversions ratios would climb, but traffic levels would drop. And the more themed you go the more you narrow it's appeal.

However we do have something a bit exclusive, we are one of very few sites offering the membership 180 pieces of added content monthly. 180 pieces that will be mostly exclusive to the members.

Compare that to a site with 180 peices of "Exclusive" content. Well in that this is the only site with this girl on that sofa level of exclusive.

I do agree with you about "TEENS" or 'BIG TITS" not being a niche, it's a section and you need to give members more than that. Just being the only site on the Net with that scene is not enough.

[Hammer]

Yes, Paul, exclusive content will improve signups considerably. You always use yourself as the example, but you produce your own content so you are not a good example.

The average pay site owner does not produce their own content, but buys it and in most cases they do not use exclusive content when they design their tours. I guarantee you that when a surfer that has been looking at porn sites for a while lands on a website with models that they've seen on other websites, they will be far less inclined to join than they will if the've never seen the models before.

You are a perfect example of what I warn many people just getting started in this business about when they say they are thinking of selling the content they are producing to make enough money to start their own pay site. If they wait to start their site until they are ready, and the content on their website is only available on their site and can be seen nowhere else on the net, they will be far better off than if they've been selling their content for a few years and now it's all over the place on countless other websites.

P.S. 'Big tits' and 'teens' have been niches as long as I've been in this business and still are. Chicks with big tits, glasses and and freckles would be a micro niche, which is the main niche broken down into a smaller niche.

Straight and gay are markets. Any subset of either of those markets are niches. Any subsets of those niches are micro niches. 'Teen' is a niche within the straight market, just as 'twink' is a niche within the gay market.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Yes, Paul, exclusive content will improve signups considerably. You always use yourself as the example, but you produce your own content so you are not a good example.

The average pay site owner does not produce their own content, but buys it and in most cases they do not use exclusive content when they design their tours. I guarantee you that when a surfer that has been looking at porn sites for a while lands on a website with models that they've seen on other websites, they will be far less inclined to join than they will if the've never seen the models before.

You are a perfect example of what I warn many people just getting started in this business about when they say they are thinking of selling the content they are producing to make enough money to start their own pay site. If they wait to start their site until they are ready, and the content on their website is only available on their site and can be seen nowhere else on the net, they will be far better off than if they've been selling their content for a few years and now it's all over the place on countless other websites.

P.S. 'Big tits' and 'teens' have been niches as long as I've been in this business and still are. Chicks with big tits, glasses and and freckles would be a micro niche, which is the main niche broken down into a smaller niche.

Straight and gay are markets. Any subset of either of those markets are niches. Any subsets of those niches are micro niches. 'Teen' is a niche within the straight market, just as 'twink' is a niche within the gay market.

So red toe nails in nylons are a micro, microniche? My point is that if you treat a real niche like you treat big tits and teens, you miss the point and will probably fail in your promotion. Out of curiosity, what part of porn is not a niche in your opinion? This is what I am trying to figure out. When I go to fetish cash sites I scratch my head in wonder. There are a few who look like they are focussed but mainly they do balloons, leather, twinks, nylons, the gamut of what they think are niches. I think I would be hard pressed to convert any of the non-fetish, fetish sites I see. Content producers are the worst offenders in this area. They hammer out tons of what they think fulfill the market demand, sell it to people who hope it does, and wtf knows? Maybe it sells big. I am not sure. I can only speculate like everyone else.
But I don't ever sell the content I produce for the very reasons you pointed out. That is the kiss of death to a boutique business and good advice for anyone starting out today.

[Hammer]

All of porn is made up of niches. If I wanted to promote the fetish niche and focus on the nylons micro niche, I would build a website to promote nylons and only showing photos of girls wearing nylons on the tour and use a domain name that has the word nylons in it and pack the members area with photos and videos of girls wearing nylons. I don't have to wear nylons to understand how to do that much, but I do agree that there are niches that require an understanding to promote effectively.

Where a webmaster would fail in an attempt to promote a niche, would be to design a site that shows girls in nylons, along with anal sex, lesbians, trannies, asians, teens, MILFs, etc. that are not wearing nylons in an attempt to provide one site that will appeal to everyone. Then, when he puts an ad on Google Adwords about girls in nylons and a surfer that is into that niche clicks and finds a tour that seemingly has nothing to do with nylons but only shows one photo that matches the niche, he's going to leave.

[spazlabz]

Originally Posted by Hammer

I don't have to wear nylons to understand how to do that much,

No, but that would be fun to see!!
g'head! try it LOL


spaz

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Yes, Paul, exclusive content will improve signups considerably. You always use yourself as the example, but you produce your own content so you are not a good example.

The average pay site owner does not produce their own content, but buys it and in most cases they do not use exclusive content when they design their tours. I guarantee you that when a surfer that has been looking at porn sites for a while lands on a website with models that they've seen on other websites, they will be far less inclined to join than they will if the've never seen the models before.

You are a perfect example of what I warn many people just getting started in this business about when they say they are thinking of selling the content they are producing to make enough money to start their own pay site. If they wait to start their site until they are ready, and the content on their website is only available on their site and can be seen nowhere else on the net, they will be far better off than if they've been selling their content for a few years and now it's all over the place on countless other websites.

P.S. 'Big tits' and 'teens' have been niches as long as I've been in this business and still are. Chicks with big tits, glasses and and freckles would be a micro niche, which is the main niche broken down into a smaller niche.

Straight and gay are markets. Any subset of either of those markets are niches. Any subsets of those niches are micro niches. 'Teen' is a niche within the straight market, just as 'twink' is a niche within the gay market.

The only thing that impresses a surfer enough to sign up is the QUALITY OF THE PORN. He does not care if it's on 1 site or 1,000. And trust me if it were on 1,000 sites I would not be opening a paysite.

I will always stand against the misleading statement od Exclusive is the way to go". Quality is the way to go and if more sites offered quality and value for money we might not be in the situation of losing so many surfer to free porn.

Big tits and teens are a section of porn and if you want to make them work you have to define them more than just that. Except I suppose with big tits if you have enough very very big girls when anything will sell.