Simple things work best when looking for sign ups.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hammer

The niche
The tour
The quality of the content in the tour
Exclusive content
The uniqueness of the site

Exactly, the thing that the "Traffic is King" band will never accept is.

They send their traffic to the guys that pay them the most. Which normally is the guys with the best content.

But I'm not sure if "The niche" explains it enough. "Understanding the niche" is better IMO.

I totally agree with this "The uniqueness of the site". No idea how many sites are out there but I would say 90% of tours look very similar to a lot of others, to the surfer.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

Exactly, the thing that the "Traffic is King" band will never accept is.

They send their traffic to the guys that pay them the most. Which normally is the guys with the best content.

But I'm not sure if "The niche" explains it enough. "Understanding the niche" is better IMO.

I totally agree with this "The uniqueness of the site". No idea how many sites are out there but I would say 90% of tours look very similar to a lot of others, to the surfer.

Traffic is not king. Never make that mistake. The easiest thing in this business to get is traffic. A trained gorilla can move traffic. It takes great content to attract valuable traffic. Junk traffic is worth about as much as a K-car.
GFY is full of traffic rats making a few grand a month thinking they are king of the hill. WTF cares?
So is content or traffic king? The perennial argument. The answer is simple. Content is always king. This is not a chicken or egg argument. No content. No traffic. No argument.

[OldJeff]

Said it a million times before....

Money is King

Great Content with no traffic gives you something nice to look at.

All the traffic in the world with no one to buy it makes for an empty bank account.

Money will get you all the contant and traffic you want, the secret is simply making more than you spend.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by OldJeff

Said it a million times before....

Money is King

Great Content with no traffic gives you something nice to look at.

All the traffic in the world with no one to buy it makes for an empty bank account.

Money will get you all the contant and traffic you want, the secret is simply making more than you spend.

Well actually in truth none of them is King.

Knowledge is the most important thing, followed by money, followed by skills, followed by talent, then in porn followed by content. If you have all these unless you hide under a rock the traffic will find you.

Money is useless if you do not have the knowledge to use it. If you have the knowledge you can find the money. Unless you're stupid which means you do not have the knowledge.

Now before someone tells me that made $10 mil without know squat, they knew enough to do it before anyone else did.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

But I'm not sure if "The niche" explains it enough. "Understanding the niche" is better IMO.

Understanding the niche is very important, but if you promote teens, big tits, porn stars or lesbians, it doesn't really matter how well you understand the niche or how great the site is, you're still competing with way too many other sites. Now, if you pick a smaller niche or come up with a new idea like Bangbus, you'll have it made. At least until everyone catches on and jumps on the bandwagon.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Understanding the niche is very important, but if you promote teens, big tits, porn stars or lesbians, it doesn't really matter how well you understand the niche or how great the site is, you're still competing with way too many other sites. Now, if you pick a smaller niche or come up with a new idea like Bangbus, you'll have it made. At least until everyone catches on and jumps on the bandwagon.

Would a niche site like Bangbus make as much if they started today?

Same "Different niche" porn level, content quality, financial backing etc. would it be a winner?

It's easy to point to a site that made is 7 years ago and say this is the way to do it, do you know how many sites failed because they did not do it right, even though they had an undeveloped niche,

Pointing to a winner of the "Derby" and saying you need a brown horse to win a horse race is only part of the story. And to be frank it's the easy part.

[Hammer]

Coming up with a new Bangbus will hardly be easy and I only use it as an example. The point is that a site with awesome exclusive teen content will do better than most teen sites, but unless it has something to make it really unique, it will never do be a sensation. Now, if you add something to make it standout, like Teen Survivor Island or something, then you'll clean up.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Coming up with a new Bangbus will hardly be easy and I only use it as an example. The point is that a site with awesome exclusive teen content will do better than most teen sites, but unless it has something to make it really unique, it will never do be a sensation. Now, if you add something to make it standout, like Teen Survivor Island or something, then you'll clean up.

I agree, but does a site need to be a sensation to succeed?

I know one site that made a profit within 6 months and now provides a very steady income for it's owners and it no sensation.

Waiting for the Bang Bus is going to make people a lot less money.

[spazlabz]

First great post for a sticky.. good Job Oprano

second, I have sent this thread to a number of people, i think the information contained in this thread is very valueable ... Thanks for the killer post Paul Markham


spaz

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by spazlabz

First great post for a sticky.. good Job Oprano

second, I have sent this thread to a number of people, i think the information contained in this thread is very valueable ... Thanks for the killer post Paul Markham


spaz

Thank you.

[Hammer]

Originally Posted by Paul Markham

I know one site that made a profit within 6 months and now provides a very steady income for it's owners and it no sensation.

Sure, it's not impossible to make a decent living from a decent site, but my original answer to you was in response to your question asking the difference between a site that converts at 1:2000 and one that converts at 1:200. I seriously doubt that an average site can convert at 1:200 without exclusive content and either extremely good content, or something unusual that grabs someone by the balls and doesn't let go until they pull out their credit card.

[softball]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Sure, it's not impossible to make a decent living from a decent site, but my original answer to you was in response to your question asking the difference between a site that converts at 1:2000 and one that converts at 1:200. I seriously doubt that an average site can convert at 1:200 without exclusive content and either extremely good content, or something unusual that grabs someone by the balls and doesn't let go until they pull out their credit card.

When it comes to converting niche traffic, you gotta know your niche thoroughly. Teen "niche" Big tits "niche" etc. etc. etc. are really mainstream porn and not niche at all. Calling them niche is like calling the porn business a niche in the entertainment business. Niche is something very, very specific. You can be staring it in the face and miss it. When the affcianado of a niche sees it. His credit card slides smoothly out of his wallet because he can't help himself. If you have thousands of people competing for the business, it is hardly a niche.
I think a more appropriate term is boutique. Low traffic volume, large profit margins and great conversions. Marketing niche traffic is best done by someone who is an enthusiast. It is quite simple. In the niche business there are tons of free sites....really free...like they make no money...who will send you focussed traffic at no cost at all. What could be better?
Someone on this board once said if you even use the word mainstream, then you probably are a pornographer. Mainstream webmasters are just...well...webmasters.
In the niche business, the word niche is never used.
Most mainstream porn webmasters do a bad job at niche marketing because they have no idea how to do it. Just throwing huge volumes of traffic at it just doesn't work.

Oh yeah, and this is a great thread.

[Paul Markham]

Originally Posted by Hammer

Sure, it's not impossible to make a decent living from a decent site, but my original answer to you was in response to your question asking the difference between a site that converts at 1:2000 and one that converts at 1:200. I seriously doubt that an average site can convert at 1:200 without exclusive content and either extremely good content, or something unusual that grabs someone by the balls and doesn't let go until they pull out their credit card.

I doubt if the content was exclusive the surfer would sign up any faster and for us I proved it.

On this page http://www.paulmarkhamteens.com/tour/updates.php we have 9 pieces of exclusive content, it will be exclusive on our site for 2-3 months. Do you think by putting a banner over the content saying "Exclusive" would make the surfer sign up faster? We did it with the original 2 tours and with this one, until we dropped the banner when sign ups rose. It seems the banner took something away from the surfer.

I seriously doubt with all the crap sites out there with "Exclusive" content on them the surfer of today is that impressed with just the word. To him it's porn nothing more and nothing less.

Now if we were to give all the content a twist like I was in every set, I'm sure conversions ratios would climb, but traffic levels would drop. And the more themed you go the more you narrow it's appeal.

However we do have something a bit exclusive, we are one of very few sites offering the membership 180 pieces of added content monthly. 180 pieces that will be mostly exclusive to the members.

Compare that to a site with 180 peices of "Exclusive" content. Well in that this is the only site with this girl on that sofa level of exclusive.

I do agree with you about "TEENS" or 'BIG TITS" not being a niche, it's a section and you need to give members more than that. Just being the only site on the Net with that scene is not enough.