Halting The Use Of Puppies And Kittens As Shark Bait

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Bhelliom

ok WT here's the question for you. Ignoring all the actual witchcraft stuff. I'm always interested in reading about ummm not to be offensive..... cults and religious origins... do you have any suggestions on say... the history of the wiccan religion?

I like to know how these things develop and change throughout history.

PS any comments made in this post do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the writer. Therefore, any furious outrage and urges to flip through spell books to curse me should be avoided.

I'll take a small try at this one.
(Just a small one. All the answers would take up...everything.)
"Wicca" is a religion. Oddly, one of the first groups to recognize it as such was the US Military. All military chaplains have a section on Wicca in their "handbooks," to tell them the right things to say in what circustances, just as they would for all the other religions.
Wicca is different from what is called "the Craft." (OK, if you've seen the movie...forget it.) Some Wiccans practice the Craft, some do not. I personally am not there yet.
No true Wiccan would *ever* "cast a spell" on someone. The Wiccan Rede says "an it harm none, do what ye will." Not too surprisingly, "putting a curse on someone" is harming them. "Repelling negative energy" is what a Wiccan would do.
The arguments of the "history" of the "Wiccan Religion" are still going on. Some say it dates to the...help me out here, WT. 1940's?

Now...there have *always* been women who knew more about herbs, healing, the powers of nature, etc. This goes back through time. They were called "witches" because of ignorant people who were afraid of them.

There is no Satan in either Wicca or the Craft.

When Christianity began its campaign for dominance, it "borrowed" a lot from the pagans. The Pagans celebrated "the wheel of the year," the natural cycles. It's not surprising that all Christian holidays fall near or on pagan ones. The Christians did that on purpose.

The "face" assigned to Satan is borrowed from "The Green Man," a phase of the God where he had horns...like a stag. He's a totally nice guy, really, and absolutely nothing to be afraid of.

Just like the Christians, the Satanists have borrowed a few things. The most often seen is the "pentacle," the five pointed star in a circle. (If it's a five pointed star alone, it's a pentagram.) In Wicca, the top point, pointing UP, stands for The Spirit, The Ether...called different things by different people. It symbolizes The Spirit *over* the four elements of Earth, Air, Fire and Water - making it more important. Satanists turned it upside down, to indicate that this corporeal existant was what mattered. They turned the Christian cross upside down, too. Their use of it doesn't make it evil, neither does their use of the pentacle. Frequently in movies with bad researchers, you will see an upright pentacle used and someone calling it a "Satanic symbol." (You may also here my scream like banshee if we're both watching the same movie.)

There are plenty of evil people out there calling themselves Wiccans, just as there are plenty of evil people out there calling themselves Christians.

Various Wiccan off the top of my head facts:
Wiccans do NOT proselitize. We answer questions, but we don't try and drum up members.
There's no such thing as a "Wiccan Bible."
All Wiccans are "witches" but not all "witches" are Wiccan. Some practice the Craft without having Wicca as their religion. (It's like "all poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles.")
All Wiccans/Pagans don't agree on everything any more than all Christians do. (I've known Methodists who wouldn't speak to Baptists and for the life of me...I couldn't figure out what the difference was.) The fights amonst the Pagans get just as ugly as any other group of people.
In Wicca, it is perfectly permissable to "wing it." Take a little piece here, a little piece there, and figure out what best fits you personally.

[WickedTemptress]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

I'll take a small try at this one.

(Just a small one. All the answers would take up...everything.)

"Wicca" is a religion. Oddly, one of the first groups to recognize it as such was the US Military. All military chaplains have a section on Wicca in their "handbooks," to tell them the right things to say in what circustances, just as they would for all the other religions.

Wicca is different from what is called "the Craft." (OK, if you've seen the movie...forget it.) Some Wiccans practice the Craft, some do not. I personally am not there yet.

No true Wiccan would *ever* "cast a spell" on someone. The Wiccan Rede says "an it harm none, do what ye will." Not too surprisingly, "putting a curse on someone" is harming them. "Repelling negative energy" is what a Wiccan would do.

The arguments of the "history" of the "Wiccan Religion" are still going on. Some say it dates to the...help me out here, WT. 1940's?

Now...there have *always* been women who knew more about herbs, healing, the powers of nature, etc. This goes back through time. They were called "witches" because of ignorant people who were afraid of them.

There is no Satan in either Wicca or the Craft.

When Christianity began its campaign for dominance, it "borrowed" a lot from the pagans. The Pagans celebrated "the wheel of the year," the natural cycles. It's not surprising that all Christian holidays fall near or on pagan ones. The Christians did that on purpose.

The "face" assigned to Satan is borrowed from "The Green Man," a phase of the God where he had horns...like a stag. He's a totally nice guy, really, and absolutely nothing to be afraid of.

Just like the Christians, the Satanists have borrowed a few things. The most often seen is the "pentacle," the five pointed star in a circle. (If it's a five pointed star alone, it's a pentagram.) In Wicca, the top point, pointing UP, stands for The Spirit, The Ether...called different things by different people. It symbolizes The Spirit *over* the four elements of Earth, Air, Fire and Water - making it more important. Satanists turned it upside down, to indicate that this corporeal existant was what mattered. They turned the Christian cross upside down, too. Their use of it doesn't make it evil, neither does their use of the pentacle. Frequently in movies with bad researchers, you will see an upright pentacle used and someone calling it a "Satanic symbol." (You may also here my scream like banshee if we're both watching the same movie.)

There are plenty of evil people out there calling themselves Wiccans, just as there are plenty of evil people out there calling themselves Christians.

Various Wiccan off the top of my head facts:

Wiccans do NOT proselitize. We answer questions, but we don't try and drum up members.

There's no such thing as a "Wiccan Bible."

All Wiccans are "witches" but not all "witches" are Wiccan. Some practice the Craft without having Wicca as their religion. (It's like "all poodles are dogs, but not all dogs are poodles.")

All Wiccans/Pagans don't agree on everything any more than all Christians do. (I've known Methodists who wouldn't speak to Baptists and for the life of me...I couldn't figure out what the difference was.) The fights amonst the Pagans get just as ugly as any other group of people.

In Wicca, it is perfectly permissable to "wing it." Take a little piece here, a little piece there, and figure out what best fits you personally.

This is probably going to be a bit lengthy...

Ok, first of all, you have to understand that Wicca is a branch of Paganism...

So, on the one hand, you have to consider that Paganism dates back to forms of Animism. For example, it has been documented by paintings found in caves that before going on a hunt, ancient man would hold a sort of ritual where they would make a model of the animal they intended to hunt, then dance around a fire with their energy focused on their intentions(thus raising energy) and then they would attack the model of the animal.

Then, they would go out to hunt the real animal, with confidence of success.

So, on the one hand, and definitely in the ritual aspects of Wicca, you see it has ancient roots.

Before Wicca became Wicca though, there were other forms of Paganism which have been practiced for thousands and thousands of years...

And, before the time when Christianity was trying to make Paganism look unfavorable, there were actually many kings that consulted witches or practitioners of magic in decisions they made both for their kingdoms and in their own lives. This is where "Wicca" or "wise one" comes from.

Modern Wiccan magic practice largely owes its origins to practices of High Ritual Magic groups formed in the early 20th century like the Golden Dawn, Gerald Gardner, and Raymond Buckland.

You see, Gerald Gardner claimed to have been initiated into the Wiccan tradition in the 1930's by one of his female relatives from the The Fellowship of Crotona.

He then published a book called "High Magick's Aid." Then, after the repeal of the British anti-witchcraft laws in the early 1950's, he wrote two non-fiction pieces: "Witchcraft Today" and "The Meaning of Witchcraft."

He met a High Priestess who claimed to be the descendant of witches that had practiced real magic for centuries and became interested. And, days before the outbreak of World War II, he was initiated into the coven.

In the summer of 1940, he attended a large ritual gathering to stop the invasion of England by Germany and met some very influential magicians, including Aleister Crowley, who made an impression on him.

While he was still a member of The Fellowship of Crotona, Aleister Crowley gave him an honorable membership to the Ordo Temli Orientis.

Until 1946, he was also a member of the Ancient Druid Order or ADO.

He soon left The Fellowship of Crotona and formed his own coven, which included all of his own ideas based on his archeological research, the knowledge he gained from Aleister Crowley, and his many years of study and experience. This, as we know it, was the first "organized" coven of Wicca.

In 1960 Gerald was invited to a garden party at Buckingham Palace in recognition of his distinguished civil service work in the Far East. It was also on one of these trips to the Far East to relieve his asthma condition Gerald meet an Englishman, known as Raymond Buckland. It was because of Raymond Buckland that made Garderian Witchcraft to popularity in North America. (However, Raymond soon formed his own brand of Wicca known as Seax-Wicca.)

OK, still with me so far?

Now, also bare in mind that though Gerald Gardener and Raymond Buckland were reasonable for bring Wicca out into the open, so to speak, there WERE already practicing covens. So, they didn't just up and invent it. There were many covens that went into hiding because of what we Pagans refer to as "The Burning Times"...

So, getting back on track here... The argument is whether Wicca is an ancient religion dating back thousands and thousands of years or a new religion from the 30's... And, as you can see... The answer is really much more complex than that.

Yes, as a modern form of magic, it is relatively new in some respects, but it's roots are deep and very ancient.

I tend to think of it more as just a different transformation of ancient magic and rituals passed down through the ages...

But, there is more history here.

It was Gavin and Yvonne Frost who got the federal government to recognize witchcraft as a religion equal to any other in 1972.

They also had formed the first church and school of Wicca in 1968.

And, that should pretty basically cover the history of Wicca as we know it today.

Now, on to the other points of the post...

Yes, Morgan is right... Witches don't cast spells on people without their consent to do so. That INCLUDES protection spells or any spell to reflect or deflect any negative energy. Doing this creates bad Karma, and all things, whether good or bad, come back three-fold. So, witches are always careful of what they send out.

Hey... You know... I'm actually writing a sort of tutorial on the myths about Wicca. I'm not finished it, but, I'll post the ones I have finished so far.

I better make that another post though. :bighlaugh:

One more thing to add here though about your last sentence Morgan... We call that being an Eclectic Wiccan, which is what I am. There are branches of Wiccan/Pagan traditions that have their own set of rules to go by... An eclectic witch doesn't go by any set forms/rules of traditions, but rather(as you said) uses the bits and pieces that fit with their own beliefs.

And, yes, the one common thing you'll find in each tradition is the Wiccan Rede: "Harm none, do what thou will."

[WickedTemptress]

Ok... There are 11 myths that I've written about so far...

MYTH # 1: "Wiccans worship the devil." The devil is a concept of Christianity, not Wicca. Wiccans do not believe in the devil. Therefore, how can we(Wiccans) worship something that we don't believe exists? Quite simply, we don't!

MYTH #2: "Witches use a Satanic symbol(the pentagram.)" This is a big misconception. First of all, when the symbol is up-right, it is called a pentacle, not a pentagram(as it's reverse side is referred to.) Secondly, it is NOT a Satanic symbol, though Satanists seem to have adopted the inverted symbol for their rites(much as they have adopted the inverted Christian cross.) This sacred symbol has been used by many, including Pythagoras(who used it to symbolize health) and his followers. They used it in order to recognize each other. Some Christian knights even used the symbol in medieval times.

So, what does this symbol mean to Wiccans? The five points of the star stand for the four different elements(Air, Fire, Water, and Earth) and the center of the star represents the Spirit. Some say it represents a human with their legs and arms stretched, and the Goddess' wisdom which surrounds them.

The reverse pentacle, or rather, the pentagram has a different meaning. In some Wiccan traditions, the pentagram is a symbol of "second degree status" or one that has been elevated from an initiate. To those traditions, the pentagram is considered highly positive and in no way relates to the meaning when Satanists use the symbol.

When Satanists use the pentagram, they're putting the elements of Fire and Earth at the top. Fire symbolizes passion and willpower, Earth symbolizes prosperity and Earthly goods. This also places the Spirit at the bottom.

So, as you can see, although Satanists do use the pentagram, neither the pentacle or the pentagram originated from Satanism, many others used it before them, and for much different reasons and meanings.

MYTH # 3: "All witches are Wiccan." That is a false statement. All Wiccans are witches, but not all witches are Wiccan. There are many different sects of religions which refer to it's practitioners as witches. From the Witch Doctors of tribes, to Satanic witches, Strega(Italian witches) etc...

MYTH # 4: "Wiccans sacrifice animals, blood, and babies." This is not only a myth, but strictly goes against the Wiccan Rede, which says: "Harm NONE, do what thou will." Why would we Wiccans do anything that goes AGAINST our belief system? So, NO, Wiccans do not sacrifice animals, babies or blood(though some may choose to use their own blood for certain rites, it certainly is NOT a Wiccan belief or tradition, merely the personal choice of the individual.)

MYTH #5: "Wicca is not a religion, it's a cult." This is not true, and in 1972 the federal government recognized Witchcraft as a religion. In 1985, a federal appeals court was convinced that Wicca is a religion, equal to any other. Both of these huge steps were made possible thanks to Gavin and Yvonne Frost, founders of the first Church and School of Wicca.

Also, to have a cult, you must have a group of people that blindly follow one leader, as the definition states. Wicca doesn't have one leader to follow, there are no leaders in Wicca. There may be individuals that are selected to lead a group ritual(a task which some covens give each member a turn to do) but, there are no leaders of the practitioners themselves. Wiccans tend to be very free thinkers, always following their own paths. Therefore, Wicca can not be classified as a cult.

MYTH #6: "Only women can be witches." Both males and females can be referred to as witches in Wicca, male witches are not called warlocks. The term "warlock" is an old Scottish word that means traitor or oath breaker, which can be used to describe either a man or a woman that has betrayed their coven or has broken their oath to the Gods. It's a dishonorable label of sorts.

MYTH #7: "Witches fly on broomsticks at night." Neither Wiccans nor any other sort of witch flies on a broom during the night OR day. This is a myth that was started back when witches first started to be persecuted. In those days, some practitioners would place a broom between their legs and run around the fields, leaping high into the air(much like a child playing with a hobby horse.) The belief was that they were showing the crops how high to grow. However, as the Christian church was trying to make Pagan practices look unfavorable at that time, it was said that they were instead flying through the air with the devil at night on broomsticks.

MYTH #8: "Wiccans try to convert other people to their religion." Absolutely false. First of all, Wiccans believe that all paths are valid, as long as they don't impose upon the free will of another or civil rights. To attempt to convert someone to Wicca would be like saying that the path that person is already on, isn't just as valid, which would go against what we believe. We believe that each person must choose their own path. Instruction or initiation in Wicca is only done when the individual expresses interest or decides becoming Wiccan is the right choice for them. No one that is a TRUE Wiccan would ever try to push their religion on someone else.

MYTH #9: "Only a Witch can make another Witch." This is also false. To become Wiccan, one may either be initiated by another Wiccan OR may even initiate themselves. There is no rule that says that only another witch may perform the initiation. You may express your devotion and make your oaths to the Gods yourself(just as any solitary witch would do.) There are, however, some traditions where one can only become a member of a specific tradition by being initiated by a member of that specific tradition. But those traditions are no more important than any other or any single witch practicing in their own home.

I have also heard questions regarding the renouncing and/or desecration of one's religion in order to become Wiccan. These things would never, EVER be required of you to become Wiccan. Just another myth spread by misinformed people. Wiccans have respect for all paths(as stated above) and as such, we also respect the symbols that go along with those paths. Neither of these things are part of the initiation ritual OR any other part of the Wiccan religion.

MYTH #10 "Wiccans go around cursing people." Wiccans COULD curse someone, but, that would go against our belief system(Harm NONE) so, this is another myth. Wiccans do NOT go around cursing people, not only because of the Wiccan Rede, but because Wiccans also believe in Karma. Everything you send out, you get back times 3! So, if a curse was sent out, the sender would feel the effects of the curse three times worse than the person they sent it out to. So, you'd really be harming yourself more than the person who wronged you(if that was the case) did.

With that said, when a wrong doing occurs, Wiccans hand it to the Gods and to Karma and trust that they will judge the situation appropriately and handle it in the manner they see fit.

MYTH #11 "Wiccans cast love spells on people." Once again, this would go against the Wiccan Rede as it would infringe on the will of the person that the spell was cast on. Because of this reason, Wiccans don't cast love spells on specific people, but rather for love in general.

[MorganGrayson]

(That's my "Damn, this woman is GOOD!" face!!)

Thanks, WT, you rocked with that. I winged what I wrote, just off the top of my head, but you covered it in such wonderful depth.

Yes, I'm an Ecclectic Solitary, who would very much like to stop being a solitary.

Oddly, one of the most difficult things about Wicca is that sneaky little "respect all Paths" thing. We go out into the world, knowing we must do that...and also knowing full well there's absolutely no way we're going to get it back. Also, some of the Paths out there seem to go out of their way to make it difficult to respect them. I personally have *severe* problems with any religion that practices "shunning." (Note: a "cult" is *not* a path, and doesn't fall into the "respect all Paths" thing.) I also get a little uptight with religions that declare themselves "the one *true* religion."

It's also very difficult belong to a faith that gives you such peace and joy...knowing that so many people are going to have a knee-jerk reaction to it based on incredible and often insulting ignorance.

One of my favorite stories about one of my daughters is her search for her own Path. She was in her room, reading about Wicca and came storming out. She grinned at me and said "I CAN'T be Wiccan...I'm not NICE enough!!!"

We are nice people. It's part of the whole deal. (In other words, we're supposed to be nice.) Therefore, having somebody ask you something about killing babies kinda makes the blood boil. We're not scary and we don't do anything anybody else couldn't handle if they took the time to learn about it. OK...San Diego has a "Witches Night Out" on Samhain, and we tend to "dress" for the occasion. There's a lot of long skirts, cloaks and pointy hats involved. There's a reason for the pointy hats...but we also have a sense of humor about ourselves.

In fact, one of the books I read said "don't be afraid if a ritual goes silly and you laugh in the circle." Laughter is beloved of the gods.

I had a real problem at first understanding the whole Goddess/God thing. Then something occurred to me. I was raised Catholic, which means I got a very solid dose of "the Holy Trinity." One Being, in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. You know what? That never made any sense to me. I could never get my head around it, no matter how many Catechism classes I attended. So, back at the beginning of my conversion, I thought to myself "you were over here, where you were miserable...and didn't get something." Hmmmm.... Now you're over *here,* where you feel as if you've come home, you're at peace, you're full of joy...and you don't get something. Okie dokie. I can live with that.