What is DYING like a hero?

[Jesse_DD]

Rolo made a post on the "Italian that died as a hero"

Can someone explain to me the definition of dying as a hero? That one eludes me. Is it dying for a cause? Dying in a dramatic way? You hear about people falling off their motorcycles or their parachute doesn't open and people say they died as heroes.

Maybe this guy did die a hero, whatever that means? Do you have to be doing some action to die like a hero or did the following die as heroes too?

Did Ghandi die as a hero?
Did RFK or JFK or MLK die as heroes?
How about Dale Earnhart (sp)?

[Peaches]

If someone offers up themselves to save the lives of others, that's what I consider dying like a hero.

[RawAlex]

Dying like a hero, because it is much nicer to say than "died tied up and shot".

I don't want to say "spin", but in war your side always dies like heros, and the other side gets slaughtered like the pigs they are.

Nothing heroic about being a dead hostage.

Alex

[Mike AI]

I am not sure what the Italian's function in Iraq was. If he was fighting in combat as a soldier and died in combat, it would be as a hero. To serve honorably in the military in a place like Iraq is being a hero.

Just going to Iraq now, even as a contractor or reporter takes balls ( or no brains), but I am not sure if they would be considered heros.

[Almighty Colin]

Believe it or not
I'm walking on air
I never thought I could feel so free

Flying away on a wing and a prayer
Who could it be?
Believe it or not it's just me.

[Mike AI]

Originally posted by Colin@Apr 16 2004, 09:19 AM
Believe it or not
I'm walking on air
I never thought I could feel so free

Flying away on a wing and a prayer
Who could it be?
Believe it or not it's just me.

Great American Hero!!

Classic TV show!!

[PornoDoggy]

Often the designation "hero" is applied when someone is exploiting the death of someone for political purposes.

MLK and Ghandi, without question, qualify as heros in my book. Using tactics that call for more inner strength than fighting with a gun, and against odds that make the Alamo look like a fair fight, they took on some of the most powerful enemies in the world. There is no question that they were killed as a direct result of the work they did.

JFK? I dunno. He was shot for being the President of the United States. A lot of people claim he is a hero, and compare him to Lincoln. Personally, while I admire much about the man, I think comparisson to Garfield or McKinley is more appropriate - they just didn't have the posthumous doting media, the beautiful wife, nor the effective PR machine that he did.

RFK is another question entirely. The RFK who was gunned down was a very different person from the one who served as Attorney General. What could he have become? I suspect he would have kicked Humphrey's ass for the nomination, and probably beaten Nixon for the Presidency. As much as I admire him, I suspect he would have been just as fucked as anyone else who tried to lead against the double whammy of Vietnam and the polarization of the country as anyone short of Solomon would have been.

I will, however, chuckle all day at the idea that Dale Earnhart was mentioned among the other four.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Apr 16 2004, 10:59 AM

[MorganGrayson]

One of the most over-used words in the current language is the word "hero." It is used so often that it has become devalued, which is an insult to those who have earned the title. We seem to be unable to label anyone as a "victim" anymore. On 9/11, several thousand people were going through the morning routine - which ended abruptly as planes crashed into their office buildings. They were labeled "heroes" by some, called - more appropriately - "victims" by others. They did not choose to die. The group of people on the third plane, who made the phrase "let's roll" so popular, did choose to die, so that others would not. They were heroes.

The Italian died with honor, demanding to look his executioners in the eye, and no doubt wanting to spit in said eyes. I don't fault his countrymen for labeling him a hero.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Apr 16 2004, 10:58 AM
Personally, while I admire much about the man, I think comparisson to Garfield

One of my favorites because he wrote a proof of the pythagorean theorem, the only one I know from memory. Yes, that's a fine enough reason for me.

[Jesse_DD]

Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Apr 16 2004, 07:58 AM
Often the designation "hero" is applied when someone is exploiting the death of someone for political purposes.

MLK and Ghandi, without question, qualify as heros in my book. Using tactics that call for more inner strength than fighting with a gun, and against odds that make the Alamo look like a fair fight, they took on some of the most powerful enemies in the world. There is no question that they were killed as a direct result of the work they did.

JFK? I dunno. He was shot for being the President of the United States. A lot of people claim he is a hero, and compare him to Lincoln. Personally, while I admire much about the man, I think comparisson to Garfield or McKinley is more appropriate - they just didn't have the posthumous doting media, the beautiful wife, nor the effective PR machine that he did.

RFK is another question entirely. The RFK who was gunned down was a very different person from the one who served as Attorney General. What could he have become? I suspect he would have kicked Humphrey's ass for the nomination, and probably beaten Nixon for the Presidency. As much as I admire him, I suspect he would have been just as fucked as anyone else who tried to lead against the double whammy of Vietnam and the polarization of the country as anyone short of Solomon would have been.

I will, however, chuckle all day at the idea that Dale Earnhart was mentioned among the other four.

But, I don't know if you can say that Ghandi or MLK died as hereos. Of course they were heroes but I don't think they died as heroes.

Dying as a hero means to me that they died doing a heroic act. Ghandi would have died a hero if he would have died of starvation during his "no eating episode." But that was not the case.

Lincoln was a hero but didn't die as a hero - he was gunned down.

William Wallace, if you believe the movie, would have died as a hero.

And, I would say that 90% of people in Alabama would disagree with you about Earnhart.

[Vick]

If you're gonna die

Die with your boots on

[Jesse_DD]

Didn't Maiden make that into a cool song.

"Die, Die with your boots on if your gonna die"

[TheEnforcer]

Originally posted by Colin@Apr 16 2004, 09:19 AM
Believe it or not
I'm walking on air
I never thought I could feel so free

Flying away on a wing and a prayer
Who could it be?
Believe it or not it's just me.

That was a damn good show too!

[Meat]

"When the murderers were pointing a pistol at him, this man tried to take off his hood and shouted: 'Now I'm going to show you how an Italian dies.' And they killed him," Mr Frattini said.

"He died a hero."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004...1998300849.html

[Hell Puppy]

"No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for HIS country."

--General George S. Patton

[kath]

Originally posted by MorganGrayson@Apr 16 2004, 08:37 AM
One of the most over-used words in the current language is the word "hero." It is used so often that it has become devalued, which is an insult to those who have earned the title. We seem to be unable to label anyone as a "victim" anymore. On 9/11, several thousand people were going through the morning routine - which ended abruptly as planes crashed into their office buildings. They were labeled "heroes" by some, called - more appropriately - "victims" by others. They did not choose to die. The group of people on the third plane, who made the phrase "let's roll" so popular, did choose to die, so that others would not. They were heroes.

The Italian died with honor, demanding to look his executioners in the eye, and no doubt wanting to spit in said eyes. I don't fault his countrymen for labeling him a hero.

Well put as always Morgan.... I've missed your .02 over the years... (so glad you are back!!!)



Definitely - the word "hero" is overused, it's a good idea to step back and look at things carefully before just using it carelessly - something the media never seems to stop and do. IMHO, it demeans those who have earned the title through their deeds.