Hypocrisy Or What?

[Mutt]

what's your opinion - i just got a spam for MatrixBucks sites.

Anybody find it weird that a company in the content business would be running a celeb site full of other photographers' work?

Seems to me like one of those magicians who go out and tell the public how all the tricks are done - betraying the brotherhood.

Maybe i can use Matrix content license free since many of their models are fairly well known pornstars and and public figures as much as mainstream celebs are?

They got some nerve man, I posted a pic on GFY and maybe Oprano too about two months ago, i think of Kaylani who we were going to shoot, so i used one of their pics as a sample(not representing that the photo was mine) and got the mean copyright infringement letter relayed to me they sent my host.

[EricP]

Anybody find it weird that a company in the content business would be running a celeb site full of other photographers' work?

Ironic - Yes.

Wrong - No.

People will do anything for a buck.

[EricP]

and got the mean copyright infringement letter relayed to me they sent my host

In my few dealings I have had with Matrix, they were very professional.
They seem like a solid company.


Would you not do the same Mutt?

I mean, if people started posting your images all over popular message boards, anyone can grab that pic and use it as content. You wouldn't want that now would you?

I'm sure they were just following their normal routine.

In order to see Matrix samples, you have to sign up for their site.

[Mutt]

nah. webmasters, those who do use illegal content, know where to get Matrix content, every site in the world has them, complete sets on 1,000's of TGPs. I posted one or two pix of models trying to get more sales, models make money when I make sales.

The point of my post was that is is HYPOCRITICAL for them to feign any concern over copyright issues while making money off THOUSANDS of infringements inside their celeb site. Do you think celeb sites are legal?
They're not. One person who operates a celeb site i know of does it legally, and that's Mr Skin. This guy is crafty, he goes to great lengths to stay within the law, according to his attorneys anway.

So what I may have done is wrong, i can't do it anymore and the pix were taken off the server they were on. Now what about the thousands of pix they have which aren't their property?

[Mike AI]

Mutt, it is beyond wrong. Where is JMM when you need him.... we need one of his epic rants.

Eric, since you do not mind people stealing other peoples stuff, I will start taking things off of your desk, and car and keeping them.... is that ok?

Matrix might be fair and honest with webmasters, but they are copyright violators - simple as that. Maybe one day some of these thieves will pay.

I know I am doing my fair share - ask around for Xanx over at gfy.... we have a date in federal court here in Louisiana... of course the kid has no money. But a point will be made.

Wish I could get someone with deep pockets to jack my content.

[EricP]

My point was never about whether or not they had a license to use the content.

I can't see why a successful company would risk lawsuits just to add another site to their portfolio.

If they are doing it legit, great.

I just can't see a company like Matrix risking lawsuits.

Im sure they know what they are doing.

[EricP]

If it bothers you that much Mutt -- call em out.

[EricP]

Alright, I'm disappointed.

I just checked out their celeb site - http://www.celebfreesites.com/

I have no idea why the hell they would be messing with that.

I'm disappointed. I really thought they were a professional company.

My bad.








Last edited by EricP at Dec 8 2002, 09:44 PM

[Mike AI]

Eric never underestimate the power of greed.

Oh and I think Mutt is calling Matric out!!

:P

[Mutt]

yeah that's what i thought i was doing. nobody but mike and you here on Oprano responded. Nobody on GFY did.

Content people get ripped off royally in this biz. Mike and others who have brains and some money don't let the thieves get away with it.

i'm talking to video guys a bit now and they are just clueless, they don't even know how much money people are making with their content.

i really think for a content company to run a celeb site is pretty outrageous.

bad for anybody to do it i guess but when you yourself are photographers and creators of content it seems lower than some company like CEN doing it.

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by EricP@Dec 8 2002, 04:23 AM

Ironic - Yes.

Wrong - No.

People will do anything for a buck.

hmmm...now you know why I fuck goats
;_)))

and I don't do it for a buck, I do it for 2! bucks!!!
;-)))

Well Mutt the reason why we were so cracked on you posting out pics is because you are advertising your content company with it. We have special arrangements with any content company that wants to use our content to promote their content products. You do not have any agreement with us. Since you are so apt to keep making this an issue.

Fact 1: You are pissy cause we had your hosting cut off those pics on GFY.
Fact 2: You have no right using our pics to promote your content company.

With that in mind who give a shit if i have a celeb site and who says that we do not have agreements to run a site like that. So with your implication CEN and Cybererotica are in the same boat as us cause they have a celeb site. I think not.

We have done the background on this legally. As well as have looked at the market of celeb sites and decided to open one up.

That is all i need to say.

Leave it alone man ... I don't go around knocking your shit and am not talking shit about you at all. You do what you do and stay out of our business. We have been around for a long time and are very professional and responsible as to what we do and what we will handle.

If you feel the need to carry it on Norman will be at our booth and would love to talk to you about it if not then go away run your business to the best of your ability and quit trying to drag our hard earned name in the mud.



Last edited by chAos-mAtrix at Dec 10 2002, 05:20 PM

[Monk]

Well that was pretty weak.

Dude we do not fight on boards .. Simply address the issue and move on..

[sextoyking]

Come on Chaos,

at least brad and Freshphotos stands up for themselves )

[Mike AI]

HAHA Chaos your retort was weak and predicitible.

You use the same lame points everyone who has been called out and is guilty.

First you attack the person who makes the point about you stealing content. Then you question their motives why they called you out. Then you say you are not alone, that everyone else is doing it.

LAME.

Bottom line Matrix is violating content rights of photographers at a minimum, and probably also misusing other peoples likeness. ( no model release) Yeah Yeah, I am sure the site is there for newswoethy purposes, you only charge money to cover expenses, the sites are owned by an offshore company you merely promote it, host it, admin it, blah blah blah.

You might be able to find some newbies to buy your bullshit, but on Oprano you better do better.

OF course you have NO real defense - you only can provide excuses, justifications, and then blame the people pointing out your violations.

[sextoyking]

Break Out the popcorn,

it's movie time!!!

I love Oprano Drama.

What we need is some new pissing on this damm BOARD!!!


LOL

[Mike AI]

Todd I do not think Chaos will be coming back...

He is a beat man, and he really has no defense. He can only

Dude i am not beat just not going to waste my time

[Mike AI]

Snappy come back dude!!!

[sextoyking]

Mike,

Chaos, seems like an ohnest enough fellow, I am sure he will answer all questions any ones has. Matrix is pretty highly respected in our industry.

Disclaimer, we have done some work for matrix before, and they have always been professional with us ***

Thanks sextoyking... we have been around a while and in that time fighting on boards are lame if that is what you think is cool then great for you. I know Brad and the freshphotos crew and they are a lot more outspoken.

We do not air our business on boards if you are interested in truly addressing an issue with me i will on the phone or icq Mike.

[sextoyking]

Chaos,

hey man, well do I enjoy people fighting, not really. once in a while a good piss is ok with me, but nothing I go look for.

I like Mutt, and I like you guys, can't we all be friends ))


peace

[Mike AI]

We have bought content from Matrix before, they have good content.

I was just curious about their stand on violation of copyrights. I am sure if someone was violating their copyrights, they would be flipping out.

I just am curious to see how they can justify what they are doing.

I am sure Chaos is a great guy... just not adept at debating. Of course it is hard to debate on issues like this, so he really has no credible defense.

So Chaos can go hide and "Do business on other boards" haha... I guess on the other boards they have people who do not have strong views on Copyright issues.

[Mutt]

i'm not going to piss with you Chaos, because you can't piss over this, you are wrong.

you work for a content company and you infringe copyrights, you also go to the trouble of worrying about what a small custom content provider is doing - you are small and your boss is small.

And i'm sorry, R-n Levi doesn't infringe copyrights nor does he own a celeb site, nor does ARS, nor does Flynt Digital, nor does MaxCash, nor does OxCash, nor does ....................... get my point?

Many of your models on Matrix Content are pornstars, well known, public figures, newsworthy, if one of them died or was jailed it would be covered by the press, by all the adult media outlets like AVN and Luke Ford and in some cases even by mainstream news organizations.
Why don't I have a right to create a website full of images of those pornstars shot and owned by you?

[cj]

when someone owns a content business as large as matrix, and is used to having their photos stolen and reproduced and has lawyers to fix this etc ... that business is in a very good position of knowing how to avoid the same laws they enforce. i'm sure matrix can run a celebrity site under the radar better than other companies.

as someone who has purchased the entire content collection, i am more put out by the fact they are running a webmaster program at ALL ... competing with a content company for webmasters & paysite traffic, with the same looking frontend content.

good thing it wasn't my money or i would have asked for it back ;-)

[slavdogg]

i could be wrong but i think matrix sites are fronts for babenet lifetime crap.

[JMM]

Originally posted by chAos-mAtrix@Dec 10 2002, 05:19 PM
Well Mutt the reason why we were so cracked on you posting out pics is because you are advertising your content company with it. We have special arrangements with any content company that wants to use our content to promote their content products. You do not have any agreement with us. Since you are so apt to keep making this an issue.

Fact 1: You are pissy cause we had your hosting cut off those pics on GFY.
Fact 2: You have no right using our pics to promote your content company.

With that in mind who give a shit if i have a celeb site and who says that we do not have agreements to run a site like that. So with your implication CEN and Cybererotica are in the same boat as us cause they have a celeb site. I think not.

We have done the background on this legally. As well as have looked at the market of celeb sites and decided to open one up.

That is all i need to say.

Leave it alone man ... I don't go around knocking your shit and am not talking shit about you at all. You do what you do and stay out of our business. We have been around for a long time and are very professional and responsible as to what we do and what we will handle.

If you feel the need to carry it on Norman will be at our booth and would love to talk to you about it if not then go away run your business to the best of your ability and quit trying to drag our hard earned name in the mud.

What kind of horseshit response is this?

You have done background on this legally and you think that it is ok? Do you honestly think people are this stupid? I KNOW your lawyer, and I have had discussion with YOUR lawyer about this topic, and I can tell you right now that YOUR lawyer DOES NOT think this is ok, and DID NOT advise you that it was OK. If, by some odd freak event, your lawyer did tell you this was ok, then good for you, you have a huge malpractice case against your lawyer.

How can a content company the size of Matrix be so utterly and completely clueless?

There are two issues involving celebrity sites. The first issue is commercial misappropriation of likeness. In California, it is California Civil Code 3344. Under this statute, it MAY be possible to use images of celebrities without a signed release. After all, that is what a release is for. A release is signed by a model to release their likeness to the copyright holder for the purpose of those images and videos only. A case MAY be made that because of the celebrity status of celebs, a release is not needed. It is a weak argument and depending on the judge, you could either win or lose.

BUT, and this is a big BUT:

The above DOES NOT release you from copyright issues that can be made by the photographers or copyright holders of the images. Just because a photographer takes a picture of someone famous, that does not give you, or any other scumbag the right to use that image without the consent of the copyright holder. It is STILL the copyright holders property and only he can decide how, when, and where those images are used. Any use of those images without the consent of the copyright holder is a violation of their rights under federal law.

Well JMM, king of kings, how then can the national enquirer for example post pictures of Brad Pitt's penis??? The answer is simple, because they bought the rights to the image from the guy who owned it, the photographer and copyright holder. Had they not, they would not have legal rights to publish it.

Now, if I was a photographer and I saw that Matrix, a content company, was using my pictures of Jennifer Love Hewitt sucking my cock (they do not exist unfortunately except in my very vivid imagination, but this is a hypothetical case) I would certainly sue Matrix. I would sue them for copyright violations in federal court. I would also make issue that since they are in the content business their infringement is certainly willful since they should know the law and they should know better. Willful infringement carries stiffer penalties, AND, can be a criminal act. A federal felony.

Matrix, there is no way that you can justify owning a celeb site. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. If you continue on this path, I hope you get sued out of business. Their is still time for you to leave your flirtation with the dark side and come over to the side of good and righteousness. Will you do the right thing? Lets hope so. Would hate it if word spread of your activities and that hurt your business.

No pun intended, but I think I will make this my cause celeb until the right thing is done.

[Mike AI]

JMM I miss you man!!!

that post brought tear to my eye.

Of course I think Chaos is long gone....


We need a chicken smilie icon... haha

[Peaches]

I know zero about content, but I love reading JMM's posts!

[Diamond Jim]

JMM RULES!

If only he had money like Ken Lawson...he'd be the perfect man....

[JMM]

Originally posted by Diamond Jim@Dec 11 2002, 05:01 PM
JMM RULES!

If only he had money like Ken Lawson...he'd be the perfect man....

I can always work harder and acquire more money.

For Ken to have what I have would require a lengthening operation and an ice pack on his nuts for 4 weeks.



Last edited by JMM at Dec 11 2002, 05:42 PM

[Billy]

JMM !!!

Where have you been I miss you !!

Do you have a note to be out and posting ?

See you in Vegas ? ? ?

Mike does this mean Eric's shit is fair game ? ?

[Mutt]

i still think if those idiots out in L.A, the adult video industry, formed some kind of association like the MPAA, and hired JMM to be their Jack Valenti he'd clean up a ton of the blatant thievery and recover millions for them.

i'm finding more shit every day, i'm talking sites that do BIG business, nothing but movies ripped from DVD's and 'found' on Kazaa etc.

i was told the numbers one of these sites is doing and it was much more than i thought.

waking these people up though is a job only a guy like JMM could do. You need a clear mind, toughness, and a good knowledge of the law.

[EricP]

Originally posted by Billy@Dec 11 2002, 11:43 PM
Mike does this mean Eric's shit is fair game ? ?

Billy -- I'm disappointed!

I thought us young ones stuck together!?

[cj]

Originally posted by EricP+Dec 12 2002, 02:27 AM-->