Should this woman be charged with child molestation?

[Red]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/12/13/ch....ap/index.html

ATLANTA, Georgia (AP) -- A 37-year-old woman who is seven months pregnant by her 15-year-old groom says she prefers older men, but the teenager aggressively wooed her.

Lisa Clark, who is charged with child molestation, statutory rape and enticing a child for indecent purposes, said in television interviews Monday that she still hopes to make a life with him and their baby.


Clark was arrested last month after the couple's November 8 wedding. Georgia law allows children of any age to marry -- without parental consent -- if the bride-to-be is pregnant. The law dates to the early 1960s and was written to discourage out-of-wedlock births.





Apparantly the kid was already on probation for burglary, so he doesn't seem like an innocent boy that was led astray.

[MorganGrayson]

Well, she's quite obviously guilty. However, they're going to run into a problem if Georgia has that spousal protection law where you can't force a spouse to testify against the other spouse. Whether they can force a DNA test is going to be fought, too.

I think they should let them lay in the little impossibly white trash bed they've made and move on to more important crimes.

This is totally unlike me, I realize. Usually I'm on the front line with the sign that says "Hang The Bitch!" for molesting a child. (During the course of research for something I asked a psychiatrist if there was any difference in the emotional and psychological damage suffered between boys and girls who are molested by adults. He said nope, not a bit of difference. They both bear the same scars.) However, I just can't connect with this one. Fuck 'em both, and be thankful that there is a 15 year old girl and an adult male that ducked a bullet because these two freaks are involved with each other.

You started this one, Red, my sweet, scrumptious, tasty bitch.

What's your take on it?

Anybody else got a word or two to toss into the mix?

[Nickatilynx]

Or you could say the age of consent law is wrong.

what is it in georgia anyway?

Is it nationwide or state by state?

IMHO there is an enormous difference between having sex with a 15 yr old and a 10 year old.

Who here was still a virgin at 15?

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Or you could say the age of consent law is wrong.

what is it in georgia anyway?

Is it nationwide or state by state?

IMHO there is an enormous difference between having sex with a 15 yr old and a 10 year old.

Who here was still a virgin at 15?

Nick...in the US, the "age of consent" varies by state. The marriage laws also vary, with exceptions made for marriages by teens with parental consent. It's convoluted as hell.

And, I'm somewhat embarrassed to admit...I was a virgin at 15. And 16. I got my first kiss at 16. I was pregnant at 17. Once again, doing my bit for "Overachievers of America."

[Nickatilynx]

In England its 16.

Its not considered bizarre or shocking for a 25 yrold to be going out with a 16 yr old.

Ok..it got a bit iffy with Bill Wyman and his girlfriend 10 yrs ago...

But most men where probably thinking "lucky lucky lucky bastard!"

;-))

At 15...I'd fuck anything that moved.If it didn't move , I'd finger it til it moved , and then fuck it! .;-)))

I Think the US make up insane laws...

Gotta be 18 to fuck
Gotta be 21 to drink...

just basically gets people into the habit of breaking the law cause they are preposterious.

I may of course be talking bollocks...

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

In England its 16.

Its not considered bizarre or shocking for a 25 yrold to be going out with a 16 yr old.

Ok..it got a bit iffy with Bill Wyman and his girlfriend 10 yrs ago...

But most men where probably thinking "lucky lucky lucky bastard!"

;-))

At 15...I'd fuck anything that moved.If it didn't move , I'd finger it til it moved , and then fuck it! .;-)))

I Think the US make up insane laws...

Gotta be 18 to fuck
Gotta be 21 to drink...

just basically gets people into the habit of breaking the law cause they are preposterious.

I may of course be talking bollocks...

No bollucks, Nick. The whole thing is insane. Back in the day, there were more than a few who pointed out "OK, let me get this straight - I'm old enough to get drafted and fight and die in a country I can't find on the map...but I can't drink and I can't vote?"

So the voting age was lowered to 18. In some states, you can buy what's called "3.2 beer" at 18. (We always had an 18 year old senior on standby for that when I was in high school.)

You have to be 18 to fuck anyone *over* 18. Two 16 year olds can have at it all day and there's no problem.

Drinking ages also vary from state to state, causing some interesting vehicular deaths by teenagers who went over the state line, got plowed...then got plowed.

There's a group of younger teenagers working to lower the voting age. My husband, who can be a royal pain in the tushie sometimes, said that if a 16 year old is working, he's paying taxes, but since he can't vote...that's taxation without representation, a little detail that was used in the forming of this bizarre country.

Americans tend to knee-jerk with regards to other nations lower ages of consent...as this Canadian delightedly found out once and tortured me with.

[selena]

When little children are getting molested every day, I think it's a near criminal waste of resources to be charging this woman with molestation of a 15 year old boy.

If it were a man molesting a 15 year old boy, I'd see it differently.

But not with a woman.

[SykkBoy]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Who here was still a virgin at 15?

Dravyk...er, um
;-)

[Nickatilynx]

""Americans tend to knee-jerk with regards to other nations lower ages of consent...as this Canadian delightedly found out once and tortured me with.""

LOL....

Btw I agree with your husband..if you work , pay taxes..you should be allowed to vote drink and fuck...

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

""Americans tend to knee-jerk with regards to other nations lower ages of consent...as this Canadian delightedly found out once and tortured me with.""

LOL....

Btw I agree with your husband..if you work , pay taxes..you should be allowed to vote drink and fuck...

You're still chuckling over that one. (So am I, really. I reacted like a complete asshole.)

Like most of my husband's arguments, this one is both presuasive and brief. "No taxation without representation." It's impossible to argue with a one liner like that. (I tried. I lost. I don't mind losing discussions like that with him, though. After all these years I never get tired of discussing "issues" with him.)

We also have some remarkably entangled laws with regards to how much/when/how a teenager can work. There are required work permits, etc., etc., etc. Those, too, vary from state to state. And if it happens to be a "family business," I believe there are no rules.

"States rights" have caused some very interesting differences between the states.

[TheEnforcer]

All I know is at 15 I would have fucked her happily, assuming she's good looking, and enjoyed every second of it and not have been traumatized one bit. Now, if you had some 37 year old guy try and do that with my 15 year old daughter I'd probably kill him. I completely own up to my bias on this one.

[PornoDoggy]

It's that Puritan strain that has never left us.

A thirteen year old is presumed to be incapable of making a mature decision about fucking. In many states, that same thirteen year old is presumed to be capable enough of making a mature decision to regarding some criminal activity to be charged as an adult.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

It's that Puritan strain that has never left us.

A thirteen year old is presumed to be incapable of making a mature decision about fucking. In many states, that same thirteen year old is presumed to be capable enough of making a mature decision to regarding some criminal activity to be charged as an adult.

Ahhh...and a new player has entered the game.

PD...once again, you have your finger on the pulse of an issue. Our sexual hangups as a society are fierce. Our desire for vengeance is just as fierce. There was a time when anyone under 18 was immediately assumed to be able to be rehabilitated if he/she committed a crime, no matter how heinous it was. The entire juvenile justice system was based on that fact. Kids who went to prison saw therapists; received education and vocational training; lived in a place that was intended to return them to society and not just make them better criminals. Now...it's a whole new system.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

There was a time when anyone under 18 was immediately assumed to be able to be rehabilitated if he/she committed a crime, no matter how heinous it was. The entire juvenile justice system was based on that fact. Kids who went to prison saw therapists; received education and vocational training; lived in a place that was intended to return them to society and not just make them better criminals. Now...it's a whole new system.

What era you are you talking about?

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

What era you are you talking about?

It's one of those "in the 'way back'" things. Past era indeed. There are a lot of reasons given why it's not that way anymore: worse juvenile crimes, lack of money, lack of money and of course, lack of money. Currently, the juvenile system just turns out better, albeit younger, criminals. The same way with adult prisons.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

It's one of those "in the 'way back'" things. Past era indeed. There are a lot of reasons given why it's not that way anymore: worse juvenile crimes, lack of money, lack of money and of course, lack of money. Currently, the juvenile system just turns out better, albeit younger, criminals. The same way with adult prisons.

So you think in the

1880s

or

1920s

maybe the 50s?
60s?
70s?

The juvenile offenders system was based on reforming them?

And these theories / opinions are based on...?

;-)))

[Sin]

Sounds like they both need therapy.

I was a virgin at 15, I didn't lose my virginity until I was 17.

Age of consent is rather relative, most places which have a lower age of consent, also have a protection clause with restrictions. Example of this, Canada. There's some out there who are under the assumption that our legal age of consent is 14 --And it is, IF you are UNDER 18. It goes even lower, if there's two or fewer years difference in age. "Even consensual activity with those under 14 but over 12 may not be an offence if the accused is under 16 and less than two years older than the complainant." -(Taken from Govt of Canada document)

In an ideal world, when a situation like this rose up it would become immediately clear that the adult (ie the one who is supposed to have the matured mental capacity to differentiate between right & wrong) had taken sexual advantage over the child. By the sounds of it though, the kid is probably a lot more aware than most 15 year olds, and the woman is mentally deficient. (I gleaned that opinion from her hope that she is hoping to still make a life with the kid & their baby)

The 15 year old might be 'above his age' and less innocent than his peers, but he is still a child and he is still going to wake up one day & realize that he's missed out on a LOT of life experiences as a result of all this. It won't be happily ever after for either party.

[Red]

This kid was not a victim of child molestation. According to the article:

The boy, who had been on probation on an unrelated burglary charge, was ordered Monday to return to juvenile detention after relatives he was living with said they could not handle him.

This was not an innocent child led astray. She was the hot mom in the neighborhood, he had the opportunity to try and get in her pants. He took it and succeeded. Whether she married him to avoid prosecution is another matter, since the law in Georgia lets anyone of any age get married if the bride is pregnant.

The Ga law states: A person commits the offense of statutory rape when he or she engages in sexual intercourse with any person under the age of 16 years and not his or her spouse, provided that no conviction shall be had for this offense on the unsupported testimony of the victim.

[Red]

Oh, I was a virgin at 15 Nick.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Red

Oh, I was a virgin at 15 Nick.

Me too ..I was vergin on being a total slut.

;-)))

[Red]

Originally Posted by Sin

In an ideal world, when a situation like this rose up it would become immediately clear that the adult (ie the one who is supposed to have the matured mental capacity to differentiate between right & wrong) had taken sexual advantage over the child. By the sounds of it though, the kid is probably a lot more aware than most 15 year olds, and the woman is mentally deficient. (I gleaned that opinion from her hope that she is hoping to still make a life with the kid & their baby)

The 15 year old might be 'above his age' and less innocent than his peers, but he is still a child and he is still going to wake up one day & realize that he's missed out on a LOT of life experiences as a result of all this. It won't be happily ever after for either party.

I agree with you completely. These are life choices they they are making and will have to deal with, unhappily ever after as they may be.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

So you think in the

1880s

or

1920s

maybe the 50s?
60s?
70s?

The juvenile offenders system was based on reforming them?

And these theories / opinions are based on...?

;-)))

It's based on a book I read recently, and for the life of me, I can't remember which one. Unfortunately, I can picture the page I read, but not the cover of the book or even enough of the rest so that I could fish it out.

Be that as it may, all of our "systems of incarceration" don't work as far as the original "paying your debt to society and returning to it" concept.

And, no, I don't have any brilliant solutions as to how to fix it. I'm generally about 15 minutes away from either emigrating or becoming an anarchist.

[Red]

Apparently this has really lit a fire

http://news.lp.findlaw.com/ap/p/56/1...16710cd1e.html

Lisa Lynnette Clark, 37, was charged last week in Gainesville with child molestation for allegedly having a sexual relationship with a 15-year-old friend of her teenage son. Just days before her arrest, she wed the boy under a Georgia law that allows pregnant couples to marry regardless of age and without consent.

Disturbed by the child groom, Georgia lawmakers may soon debate changing a law that many didn't know even existed. Geared toward preventing out-of-wedlock births, the law dates back to at least the early 1960s.

"I never knew it was in the code until this morning," Jerry Keen, majority leader in Georgia's legislature, said Tuesday.

So are they going to change this law?

Keen and other leaders in the Republican-controlled Georgia legislature stopped short of endorsing a change to the state's marital requirements.

Instead, Keen said, the state's Republican lawmakers will focus on passing stricter penalties for those convicted of child molestation.

Democratic lawmakers, who are now in the minority after more than a century in power, may hope a proposal to change the marriage standards will drive a wedge in the Republican majority.

State lawmaker Karla Drenner said she plans to author a bill that would bar children under age 16 from marrying regardless of the circumstances.


As the only openly gay elected official in Georgia's state government, Drenner said the irony of the lax marriage standards for minors is not lost upon her - particularly a year after lawmakers passed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage.

"We're protecting society from the perceived threat of homosexual marriage, which was already illegal," she said. "But yet if you're pregnant, you can get married - and it doesn't matter if you're 9 years old or 10 years old."

And what about the kid's grandmother who had him returned to juvie because she couldn't controll him?

Meanwhile, the family of the 15-year-old who married the 37-year-old Clark doesn't seem to be celebrating the couple's marital bliss. The boy's grandmother, Judy Hayles, said in a TV interview that her skin crawls when she thinks of Clark.

"I don't want to see her. I don't want to hear her. I don't even like to see her ugly mugshot on TV," Judy Hayles said on ABC's "Good Morning America."

Hayles, who wants to get the marriage annulled, said Clark's attorney has said she intends to stay married to her grandson.

That will happen, the grandmother said, "when I'm laid out and candle lit."

[MorganGrayson]

Grandma, who by inference is this little mutt's caregiver, had him returned to juvie because she couldn't control him? Well, she doesn't have to worry any more. He's an emancipated minor and she's no longer responsible for him.

[WebairGerard]

laws or no laws. let's face it, there is something still wrong about this. If you have to think if it's wrong to fuck a youngster is probably is wrong.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by WebairGerard

laws or no laws. let's face it, there is something still wrong about this. If you have to think if it's wrong to fuck a youngster is probably is wrong.

Oh, it's wrong. No thinking involved. It's also illegal. She's thrown some shit into the game by marrying him, which may make prosecution difficult.

The only one I feel sorry for is the spawn of this union, who has zero chance of turning out even remotely normal.