Poker...been trying an experiment..

[Nickatilynx]

Anyone else tried this...

So I made some decent coin at tourny play , so I thought to myself , I am a pretty decent player when I play properly. I am able to change gears and make it hard for people to put me on cards.

I have all this cash from tournaments so .....

So the last while I've been playing in 10/20 7 stud games ( which I consider my best game) and seeing how it goes.

I'm easily making 2-3k a week at it. Playing for maybe 60 - 90 mins a day at it.

Basically when its going against me I cut my loses and run. Maybe move table or have a break.Then when I win a certain level.I stop.

It has made me realise that there must be a lot of people who are now pro poker players.

It seriously is not hard.....

[Nickatilynx]

I suspect Miss Eve is doing pretty well..

[NickPapageorgio]

I won't say where I read it, but if you're talking online Poker, apparently, it's easy to tilt the odds in your favor as well by simply hooking up a few computers and multiple proxies. The guy that was being interviewed for the article said that he'd play 2 or 3 hands at the same table, thus giving him selection from many more cards...

[DrGuile]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

It seriously is not hard.....

It's not hard...... for you!

your winnings are someone losses... so it has to balance out somehwere, minus the rake.... so most people loose at online poker.

But yes, nowadays, alot of people are "professionals". Certainly alot more than in the past.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by DrGuile

It's not hard...... for you!

your winnings are someone losses... so it has to balance out somehwere, minus the rake.... so most people loose at online poker.

But yes, nowadays, alot of people are "professionals". Certainly alot more than in the past.

Valid point LOL

but I have paid my dues , and fortunately paid them by entering $5 tournaments so they weren't to hard to recoup.

As I mentioned to some fucking moron , whose name escapes me , privately...


I think technically I earn more from poker than 98% of GFY do from webmastering , so if they can call themselves webmasters I can call myself a pro poker player.

[Timon]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I think technically I earn more from poker than 98% of GFY do from webmastering , so if they can call themselves webmasters I can call myself a pro poker player.

Sig whoring earns $60 a week!?? Whoa where do I sign up!!

[TheEnforcer]

I should start online play but I just haven't done it.

[voodooman]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I think technically I earn more from poker than 98% of GFY do from webmastering , so if they can call themselves webmasters I can call myself a pro poker player.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

I should start online play but I just haven't done it.

Start at very low limits and play lots of tourny's.

My argument for this a $5 - $20 tourny is not much money.However it affords the chance to win decent money and thus motivates you more than playing say a 50cent bet game where you'll be calling when you shouldn't etc cause "its only 50 cents"

If you have never played online you will be most likely be easy meat I'm afraid if you play at the limits you are accustomed to.

The reason I say this?

Lets say you have been playing B&M ( Real world - Bricks and mortar ) poker for 5 years.

You play twice a week for 5 hours for a total of 10 hours play a week.
Hands dealt in B&M will be around 25 an hour.

Thus every week you play 250 hands , or 13,000 hands a year meaning in 5 years you have played 65000.

Online I play averaged out prolly 4 hours a day in all. ( Hour or two a day playing money games on 2 tables at a time plus tournys) (((( work it out))) LOL Effectively 4 hours play per day.

I am therefore involved in 60 dealt hands per hour , per table.

Therefore at 4 hours play a day I'm seeing 240 hands a day...not a week.

Plus it being online I'm able to have a virtual book of notes on my lap telling me what so and so did the last time I played him.What impression I have of him and what impression I think he has of me.I also have all the history of past hands to study and various other statistics.

Oh shit!!!!!

I really am getting into it!! LOL

[Trev]

I just wish I could win... real money... play money... I don't care, I just want to win

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Start at very low limits and play lots of tourny's.

My argument for this a $5 - $20 tourny is not much money.However it affords the chance to win decent money and thus motivates you more than playing say a 50cent bet game where you'll be calling when you shouldn't etc cause "its only 50 cents"

If you have never played online you will be most likely be easy meat I'm afraid if you play at the limits you are accustomed to.

The reason I say this?

Lets say you have been playing B&M ( Real world - Bricks and mortar ) poker for 5 years.

You play twice a week for 5 hours for a total of 10 hours play a week.
Hands dealt in B&M will be around 25 an hour.

Thus every week you play 250 hands , or 13,000 hands a year meaning in 5 years you have played 65000.

Online I play averaged out prolly 4 hours a day in all. ( Hour or two a day playing money games on 2 tables at a time plus tournys) (((( work it out))) LOL Effectively 4 hours play per day.

I am therefore involved in 60 dealt hands per hour , per table.

Therefore at 4 hours play a day I'm seeing 240 hands a day...not a week.

Plus it being online I'm able to have a virtual book of notes on my lap telling me what so and so did the last time I played him.What impression I have of him and what impression I think he has of me.I also have all the history of past hands to study and various other statistics.

Oh shit!!!!!

I really am getting into it!! LOL

Yeah.. online play certainly does speed up the learning curve.

[RyanLanane]

Nick, Variance is the mother of all evils...

Start reading http://www.twoplustwo.com ; do a search for variance and standard deviation... also bankroll requirements would be a good start for some reading...

It is suggested in LHE you have 300 X bankroll atleast... so 10/20 you would need atleast $6,000 at least to sustain all swings... Swings and losses of 100 BB's in one day are not at all uncommon for even pro players ... We all run bad time to time no matter how good you are

Not trying to get you to sto playing at all, as you are definately an above average player. Just think you might want to read up on some of this stuff so when the variance kicks in on the low end you are prepared

Oh, and congratulations you lucky SOB!! LOL

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by NickPapageorgio

I won't say where I read it, but if you're talking online Poker, apparently, it's easy to tilt the odds in your favor as well by simply hooking up a few computers and multiple proxies. The guy that was being interviewed for the article said that he'd play 2 or 3 hands at the same table, thus giving him selection from many more cards...

I am sure there is collusion. But probably just as much in B&M play.

He may have more choice over his cards and which to play , but I still get the choice of which cards I play ;-))

I tend to put down my losses to my bad play rather than others cheating. LOL

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

Nick, Variance is the mother of all evils...

Start reading http://www.twoplustwo.com ; do a search for variance and standard deviation... also bankroll requirements would be a good start for some reading...

It is suggested in LHE you have 300 X bankroll atleast... so 10/20 you would need atleast $6,000 at least to sustain all swings... Swings and losses of 100 BB's in one day are not at all uncommon for even pro players ... We all run bad time to time no matter how good you are

Not trying to get you to sto playing at all, as you are definately an above average player. Just think you might want to read up on some of this stuff so when the variance kicks in on the low end you are prepared

Oh, and congratulations you lucky SOB!! LOL

I agree it is possible to lose , badly. LOL

I think 7 stud ( which is what I play for $$) minimises that possibility.

I've never had those type of losses and hope I won't.

The difference is mind set.

People with gambling/poker "problems" don't stop.

They don't sit back and say "hmmm I'm not playing well"..or "I'm still steaming over the argument with the wife"...I think i'll walk away today.

For example....

My brother is literally a mathematical genius.I mean literally LOL

However I watched him lose a lot of money gambling and then saw him at higher limit tables.

When I asked him what he was doing he said "This way I can recoup my losses twice as fast!!!"

WHATTTTT!!!!! lol

Sorry my friend.

I do not believe in streaks..winning or losing...

I believe you may find yourself playing badly and lose or playing well and win.

Analysing it and realising what it is either way is the key.

Oh and my bank roll is at least 100,000 bets at those limits so I think I'm safe ;-)))

plus ...plus icq me yr number

Read your post about statistics Ryan.

Unfortunately as I understand it the probability of all games of chance are temporally indepent. (ie just because a fair coin shows up heads 10 times in a row doesn't mean it's more likely to be tails the next throw). Hence the percieved phenomenon of winning and losing streaks cannot predict future outcome. Whilst mean and variance can provide you with a guideline of what you are most likely to lose or win, it only takes one sample to fall outside the variance to wipe you out. If you could continue taking samples (ie playing hands) chance would dictate you would fall back within the variance, but unfortunately you are wiped out so you can't.

Now regarding card statistics, most poker players worth their salt will be able to tell you the odds of drawing a winning card (if not they can download a program that will), so it is impossible to gain an edge against a good player using card statistics alone.

When my brother talks of statistics he isn't talking about the card statistics he is talking about the player statistics. Players, unlike a deck of cards are not random and exhibit statistical patterns depending upon their particular psychology. So it is fair to say that poker is an art rather than a science. If you can predict a what a player will do based on their previous moves whilst ensuring your style remains as unpredictable as possible you will greatly increase your overall odds of winning. For example when I play my brother and ask him what he had after he folds he replies "I had what ever you think I did". Thus denying me information that could aid me against him.

The only way to gain an edge is to ensure that your information is better than your opponents and that isn't going to happen through card stats, because you all are being dealt from the same deck, so everyone's information is the same.

[Nickatilynx]

I play people , not cards

[MorganGrayson]

Technick...wonderful to read, as always.

Nick...that's why you win.

I don't know how it's done in online playing, but I have heard that B&M poker players are experts in reading facial expressions and body language. (Called "tells," I believe; as well as the famous "poker face.")

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

Technick...wonderful to read, as always.

Nick...that's why you win.

I don't know how it's done in online playing, but I have heard that B&M poker players are experts in reading facial expressions and body language. (Called "tells," I believe; as well as the famous "poker face.")

Online it is betting habits etc etc...

What hands they will start with , When they call , when they check , when they raise...

These are also big tells in B&M.

In B&M I never look at my down cards immediately ,or at the cards on the flop.

I'm too busy watching the reactions of other players to the flop.

[Bhelliom]

Just have to get into this one.

I've just started to realise how easy it is to win online. I"m turning into a decent player. Not great yet but decent. And i'm making a few hundred. not a ton of cash but I don't play with a lot either. and I'm making more than I lose

I was talking with a friend of mine and he was telling me a guy he used to work with quit his job and now plays poker online full time.... and pulls in over 100K a year doing it.

not bad if you can control your emotions and play the cards and know when to quit

[Sysprod]

Playing people, online, is much harder then in a gold old B&M game. Even tho I like playing online, at times it's very impersonal. It gets hard trying to figure out if a person is taking sometime thinking about their play or their dialup connection is droping out heh.

At the same time being able to write down notes about the people at your table is much easier then a live game, where your writing notes down on the palm of your hand

[MissEve]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I suspect Miss Eve is doing pretty well..

I'm doing pretty good

I still haven't decided if I'm actually a good poker player or if I'm pretty solid and there are just so many morons playing online that its easy to make money. Some days are really frustrating, the fishy calls and bad beats make me crazy but sometimes its just taking candy from a baby.

For whatever reason its easier for us to play properly. I have tons of friends who simply can not laydown their straight when they know someone has a flush etc. Plus, poker can be really mentally exhausting if you are playing many hours a day, not everyone is cut out for it.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by MissEve

I'm doing pretty good

I still haven't decided if I'm actually a good poker player or if I'm pretty solid and there are just so many morons playing online that its easy to make money. Some days are really frustrating, the fishy calls and bad beats make me crazy but sometimes its just taking candy from a baby.

For whatever reason its easier for us to play properly. I have tons of friends who simply can not laydown their straight when they know someone has a flush etc. Plus, poker can be really mentally exhausting if you are playing many hours a day, not everyone is cut out for it.

I think there are lots of players that really do believe "its been heads 8 times in a row , its bound to be heads!"

Playing against moneymaker and fossilman was very very educational.
They wait and wait and then attack and attack.
They work out what type of player you are.
What cards you go on.What peice of the pot makes you stay in.What size of bet you will call ,what makes you fold ,when you have the nuts , how you play them ..etc etc..
You can see them doing it.

They also said at the table that nowadays because of who they are they have had to adjust there game as people fuck with them more lol

I am fortunate in mind set that I never really get pissy or stressy over bad beats. I smile and wait.

[MissEve]

I get more pissy over the "stupid beats". If I push with AK, someone calls with KK, I catch and A they catch a K Im not pissed. If I push with AA and someone calls me with A5 and makes a low straight I want to kill someone. Im having seriously emotional problems now that party pokers chat is disabled. I can't even heckle when I get jacked now!

[MorganGrayson]

I find it fascinating to read all this. Basically, I don't understand a bloody word of it, but the enthusiasm is still contagious.

[Trev]

Originally Posted by MissEve

I get more pissy over the "stupid beats". If I push with AK, someone calls with KK, I catch and A they catch a K Im not pissed. If I push with AA and someone calls me with A5 and makes a low straight I want to kill someone. Im having seriously emotional problems now that party pokers chat is disabled. I can't even heckle when I get jacked now!

You should try play money for a while, little gits playing 3 9 and picking up lucky wins with cards they should have folded.... hmm... I'll rephrase that, I should try playing for real money again...

[RyanLanane]

Nick, I had no time at all today to talk.. I only stopped by and read here once .. Way to mcuh was on my plate and seemed like it was one of those days where if it could go wrong, it did...

Hopefully tomorrow is a bit lighter and we have a chance to talk.. I'll send you an ICQ whenever I end up with some free time..

Nick, I got what you are saying... But trust me - Like I said even the best players out there will tell you no matter what you WILL lose 100 BB's or $2000 at the levels you are playing until your cards straighten out.

It will be ne of those thungs where you play well, but you keep getting beat by a set a little higher... a K high flush to their A hi flush... or getting rivered 20 times in a 3 or 4 hour session. I know my play in the past speaks crap about me lol... But I had a period where I played 20,000 hands and won 950 of them ... I was actually break even believe it or not... but it was an intensely painful couple weeks lol ... Seriously, I could not win for the life of me..

You should read up on twoplustwo, you will pry end up enjoying the site.. It is a wealth of knowledge!

[MissEve]

Ryan....hey baby! So, are you saying that its not possible to be a winning player online or just that you should expect downswings?

[RyanLanane]

Just to expect and be mentally prepared for the downswings

Ever since Nick got through to me to adjust my stakes... I have been bringing home a teady weekly paycheck from palying.. not much but it will pretty much be making the house payment

More than anything.. from my talks with nick - I think he might have a problem if he dropped $1,000 in a session - not because he can't afford to or it would hurt his bankroll but just mentally... different people can handle different swings.. I can see it bugging the living hell outta Nick if he drops a grand in a session.. Just wanted him to be prepared since at those stakes, it WILL happen eventually lol..

[MissEve]

I hear ya! As they say on twoplustwo, you will have a downswing worse than you could have ever expected. I just go back to Pokertracker and review my games to make sure Im not tilting or leaking. I have about a year and a half of data and I look at my ITM/ROI and prove to myself that I am a winning player. Those stats help me so much when I'm on a downswing.

On a side note.....there has been a lot of discussion on twoplustwo about the killing of the golden goose in poker. There definitely could be some paralells between porn and poker. I wonder if Party Poker can sustain the number of players it has. Do you think the poker craze will die out or will it become even more of a national past time? I am still fascinated when I look up players on Poker Prophecy and see someone playing $100 sit and gos who has played 500 games and only been in the money 20% of the time.

I tend to heckle people and I was heckling someone who lived in the Bay Area who was playing like a moron. I asked him if he had a great silicon valley job and just liked to lose money. He started chatting with me and was actually a really interesting person. He basically said that he has the money and just plays for fun.

That is a hard concept for me to understand but I know its common. Even when I had money coming out of my ass I would have never played $100 a hand blackjack and doubled down on 6 with a 10 showing.

Morgan, if you are reading this.....get ready. You are going to learn how to play poker!

[RyanLanane]

Poker Tracker is an invaluable tool... I have uninstalled and reinstalled that hting so many times Pat has to hate me by now, asking for a key every time.. lol

It has helped me on many of my leaks ... and shows me a new leak every time I look it seems Seriously though spending hours analyzing stats, reading message boards, and articles on the game helps imensely. You really do have to 'study' the game (and YOUR game) continously if you want to be a winning player. Perfect example of nothing comes easy in life!

I try not to heckle any more although I let it slip time to time... Usually after 3 or 400 hands where I have only won a handful or two and I get a hand cracked. I never heckle when I am not running bad and see bad play, in fact I will sit there and take the side of the person being heckled and make sure he thinks the heckler is an asswipe

The longer players like that stay around the better!

And yes, there are manyyyyyy players who play just like they play Black Jack... They have it calculated into their living expenses as a hobby or entertainment and it doesn't phase them. So I don't see the game dying off, instead I see it becoming more mainstream and become 'another casino game' simialr to caribbean stud, 3 card poker, etc.. none are the biggest but they all hang in there over the years. The main problem is Casinos don't want to push the game .. they make jackshit per square foot compared to table games - But they have to add the tables nowadays due to demand and people will actually stay elsewhere that has a poker room. Hopefully the demand for live play stays up there and it will make the casinos keep larger card rooms.

Even if live card rooms starting drying up I think poker is here to stay

I do think it was an incredibly stupid move for party poker to split up into two networks

1) Party Players
2) Players from all other skins

It has hurt their game selection in some areas such as PLO and 7 card stud.. nothing detrimental, but still plain idiotic. I do however get it from a marketing standpoint - will be interesting to see how that pans out the next 6 months.

I coudl go on for hours on this subject, lol... I better stop now before I really start rambling

[Nickatilynx]

Won another $850 yesterday. So the streak is still alive!!! LOL

And it would be nye on impossible for me to drop $1000 in one session as I only take $500 to the table.

Plus I think I can handle the mythical $1000 losing session because I won't have to actually go into my pocket..its there money and there is plenty more ;-)))

[RyanLanane]

Keep at it Nick !! And pass some of that streak off to me... Sat with $25 last night ran it up to $125 playing solid poker at $50 NL.. then KK cracked by 88 all-in preflop he hit set, and then my set was beat by an over set to bust me... lol

I hate the game!

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

Keep at it Nick !! And pass some of that streak off to me... Sat with $25 last night ran it up to $125 playing solid poker at $50 NL.. then KK cracked by 88 all-in preflop he hit set, and then my set was beat by an over set to bust me... lol

I hate the game!

ahahahahahahahahaha

See that is one safe guard of 7 stud.

No "all in " to worry about , plus I can see 4 of there cards lol.

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

ahahahahahahahahaha

See that is one safe guard of 7 stud.

No "all in " to worry about , plus I can see 4 of there cards lol.

How often have you played 7 stud in a brick and mortar? It's a MUCH slower game in brick and mortar, even more so than the difference between speed in no limit between online and b&m.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

How often have you played 7 stud in a brick and mortar? It's a MUCH slower game in brick and mortar, even more so than the difference between speed in no limit between online and b&m.

So?

LOL

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

So?

LOL

Some people don't like the pace of the game. It doesn't bother me at all. Unfortunately it's near impossible to find people to play it around here.

Other than Texas Hold Em about the only other game I'll find at the casino close by is the occasional Holdem-Omaha Hi-Lo round by round game which they usually have one going once or twice a week and even more rarely, maybe once a month, an Omaha Hi-Lo game, neither of which I enjoy. I don't mind straight Omaha but no one ever plays that around here. It's the same with 7 Stud.

[RyanLanane]

Originally Posted by TheEnforcer

Some people don't like the pace of the game. It doesn't bother me at all. Unfortunately it's near impossible to find people to play it around here.

Other than Texas Hold Em about the only other game I'll find at the casino close by is the occasional Holdem-Omaha Hi-Lo round by round game which they usually have one going once or twice a week and even more rarely, maybe once a month, an Omaha Hi-Lo game, neither of which I enjoy. I don't mind straight Omaha but no one ever plays that around here. It's the same with 7 Stud.

TE, Just spit out the point.. I know what you were getting at...

IT IS AN OLD MAN'S GAME!!!

Here comes that Hill Nick !!

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

TE, Just spit out the point.. I know what you were getting at...

IT IS AN OLD MAN'S GAME!!!

Here comes that Hill Nick !!

I guess I'll just take solace in the fact that I win at this old man's game

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

I guess I'll just take solace in the fact that I win at this old man's game

That's all that matters.....

[Trev]

I've been watching the 7 card stud, it looks like a more interesting game altogether. Plus it seems that very few hands are actually played to the end. Interesting...

[RyanLanane]

True Nick

BTW You should signup at Ult Bet or even better... http://www.pokershare.com Nick.. Their players have got VERY VERY VERY weak over the last year! I was absolutely cleaning house in Omaha last night and people were calling on the craziest hands... Got called down with top set by bottom pair, lol ... This is Omaha keep in mind

If you want $250 in there let me know and I'll cancel my cashout transfer to you... you can send me the funds... Apparently it takes a week to cashout there which I just found out last night... "drats!"

BTW If you signup let me sneak in my affiiate code... lol

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

True Nick

BTW You should signup at Ult Bet or even better... http://www.pokershare.com Nick.. Their players have got VERY VERY VERY weak over the last year! I was absolutely cleaning house in Omaha last night and people were calling on the craziest hands... Got called down with top set by bottom pair, lol ... This is Omaha keep in mind

If you want $250 in there let me know and I'll cancel my cashout transfer to you... you can send me the funds... Apparently it takes a week to cashout there which I just found out last night... "drats!"

BTW If you signup let me sneak in my affiiate code... lol

LOL.

No its ok Ryan , I'll stay at PP.

You really do have a problem mate.

[mojobill]

Ryan, I'm interested in your thoughts on why PartyGaming's recent move to isolate their 'skins' is a bad move for Party? I think those skins only accounted for like 10% of the overall players. I'm pretty sure the skins will feel the heat.

Nick, I played 7 card last night at my poker club, for the first time in over 20 years... interesting game! ;-)

[RyanLanane]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

LOL.

No its ok Ryan , I'll stay at PP.

You really do have a problem mate.

Problem? I took 3 days off after I lost $25 and deposited $50 !!! I got the $50 plus another $150 from working on a poker web site part time.. lol

Not my fault the players at the $50 PLO tables want to drop 6 buyins to me..

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by RyanLanane

Problem? I took 3 days off after I lost $25 and deposited $50 !!! I got the $50 plus another $150 from working on a poker web site part time.. lol

Not my fault the players at the $50 PLO tables want to drop 6 buyins to me..

Excuse me , I'm in my office at PP.

Up 450 so far today......just a regular day... ;-)))

[RyanLanane]

Originally Posted by fatbaby

Ryan, I'm interested in your thoughts on why PartyGaming's recent move to isolate their 'skins' is a bad move for Party? I think those skins only accounted for like 10% of the overall players. I'm pretty sure the skins will feel the heat.

Nick, I played 7 card last night at my poker club, for the first time in over 20 years... interesting game! ;-)

Current figures during dead hours

Party Skins - 6,654 Players at 928 tables
Party - 32,992 players at 4457 tables

Poker Stars - 28,328 platers at 4337 tables

Party is now in a great position to lose it's numebr 1 spot to Poker Stars. Poker Stars is more profitable than Party Poker head over heels. Poker Stars is the only affiliate program I know of that refuses to play a percentage of revenues generated by that player. Wonder why

That doesn't account for the fact the change has killed their big games... not that I play them any more.. but it was drawing some players back to party that hasn't played in a while.

If party stays level all Stars needs is a 16% increase in players to over take Party.. They are the king of free advertising through word of mouth mainly. If they launched a 10 million dollar advertising campaign they would grow 10% within 6 months no problems...

I think Party will be playing catch up in a year. The owners cashed in and don't care any more... The board will be raising hell soon once they realize they are on track to lose their position as the top poker network in the world. Financially directly it has no impact I am sure as Party still gets money from the skins..

[RyanLanane]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

Excuse me , I'm in my office at PP.

Up 450 so far today......just a regular day... ;-)))

I'm gonna come and heckle you !! Remember what happened when I rooted for ya? Guess what happens when I heckle!!

[RyanLanane]

BTW Nick, I got $50 in my Poker Stars account... Before you say anything it is from last night's UB winnings.. a friend transferred for me

We should playa $5 HU match later for the hell of it, if I have a chance to play tonight...

[RyanLanane]

BTW Fat Baby, it forces the skins to do their own marketing and not piggy back off of Party's which is where it was a wise move. Party got sick of people on their network saying they were playing at blah blah ... thsoe people signed up for that site and got the deposit bonus and moved on..

That being said, anythign that hurts partys skins... still hurts party ... they egt a percentage of what each skin makes - a hefty one I am sure..

75% of the players on other skins are from empire, which party tried to buyout unsucessfully - my guess is this is party putting the pressure on empire and empire will now sell for LESS then what they were offered as they see their revenues drop.. Guerilla War over at that company, smart SOB's

But... after that, their skins will dwindle leaving a very small network that will lose it's name over time ... And party will be the only one running that software

[MissEve]

There are a ton of high stakes players that played on Party skins to get the rakeback. It sounds like some of them will be moving to places that will continue to give them rakeback. When you play $50-$200 Sit and Gos you definitely notice that a lot of regulars are missing. That just means there is less competition for me at the moment! I would still think that playing on Party with unlimited fish would be better than playing on a smaller site with rakeback.