would our industry benefit with more structure?

MrIzzz · 02-05-2005

since our industry has been made up of freelance free-spirited entrepeneurs from day one, do you believe if we were more organized and companies actually abided by a more corporate structure that this industry would be able to grow even greater?

would being more structured help curtail all the scammers and cheaters?

or would the leading companies be hampered, since cheating and skimming would also be more punishable, because affiliates would noww actually take corps to court?

would there even be affiliates anymore?

just a passing thought so i have left the questions vague for now

Raven · 02-05-2005

I know the companies who retain my services and become more organised, with short and long range planning, plus coordination of projects, along with focus, prosper.....

I believe every corporate entity needs to be organised, in order to function efficiently. There's too much waste and too many visionaries who need grounding and structure.

To further clarify, if corporations would structure themselves, the industry would follow.

Almighty Colin · 02-05-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by MrIzzz@Feb 5 2005, 03:15 AM
would there even be affiliates anymore?

Some companies consider it their core business to obtain affiliates and make partnership deals. Generating traffic internally takes resources that for many companies would be better spent elsewhere. That being said, I think there is a place for generating some traffic internally if that is one's mindset. One difficulty is that it takes intellectual capital to do such things and these people easily jump ship or get motivated to strike out on their own.

There is considerable risk in trying to generate all one's own traffic that is better spread out amongst a large number of people that consider it their core business to "generate traffic.

How would you regulate this? As long as someone is capable of getting and selling traffic there will always be someone who is willing to buy it - in many cases secretly.

The reality is that for most affiliate programs it is easier to get traffic the old fashioned way. They buy it. On the other side, I know people that have tons of traffic with absolutely no interest in running membersites.

Hell Puppy · 02-05-2005

I dont know that it would benefit the industry as a whole. It would send a lot of people back to Wendy's.

Almost all industries evolve in a similar manner. The early days will be wild west and dominated by the innovators and those who are simply willing to work a little harder, longer and smarter than the next guy.

As an industry matures, there will come saturation followed by shrinking margins and ultimately consolidation. Consolidation and scaling necessitate more structure. Those who survive will be those market leaders who have the most business sense and are the best organized and operationally sound.

With all that said, there are a few key differences in the adult world that make it a bit of a wild card. First off, there's the question of how much adult industry will the government tolerate on the internet before trying to contain it. Then there's the fact we're totally hamstrung by processing, which makes even the largest adult empire's income tied to a house of cards economically. And perhaps most importantly, Wall Street hasn't been very accepting of adult entities as public companies, which makes the growth plan for an adult business totally different than a typical start up.

CuriousToyBoy · 02-05-2005

All I know is that the really great thing about not planning is that failure comes as a total surpise and is not preceeded by great amounts of stress and worry

If I didn't have structure, I would be rooted.

h34r:

*KK* · 02-05-2005

I don't see it happening, Izzz. You can't get 12 program owners to meet on time in the lobby of a Vegas hotel and decide where they are going to dinner in less than an hour. And those are the organized ones.

Now let's add in the petty disputes and outright dislikes (ok, hatreds in some case) of the various people with stature (I use that term very loosely) against one another. Then let's toss in the competitive edge to get traffic and sales.

After that we'd mix a cup or two of potential government intervention, either criminal or civil (like the FTC's current spam campaign), toss in some lawsuits (and there are always more of these going around than anyone would ever guess) and top it off with the proverbial cherry -- the egos.

Not much chance of anything structurally happening, imo.

Nickatilynx · 02-05-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by *KK*@Feb 5 2005, 11:05 AM
I don't see it happening, Izzz. You can't get 12 program owners to meet on time in the lobby of a Vegas hotel and decide where they are going to dinner in less than an hour. And those are the organized ones.

Now let's add in the petty disputes and outright dislikes (ok, hatreds in some case) of the various people with stature (I use that term very loosely) against one another. Then let's toss in the competitive edge to get traffic and sales.

After that we'd mix a cup or two of potential government intervention, either criminal or civil (like the FTC's current spam campaign), toss in some lawsuits (and there are always more of these going around than anyone would ever guess) and top it off with the proverbial cherry -- the egos.

Not much chance of anything structurally happening, imo.

Interesting thread...

If a group of people start setting standards , another group of people will see that as an opportunity to get rich by not adhering to those standards. ( You'll prolly find me in the other group)

People have tried to do this in the past. Never worked.

YNOT for instance did not allow blindlinks or popups. I spent the first 30 mins when YNOTs top list changed playing cat and mouse with Khan.

IME everytime one of these type of syandards/ rules bodies have come into existence people either followed the rules , and went poor , pretended to follow the rules but had secret sites etc , or just said "fuck it"

What sort of controls or standards would people like to be put in place?

I think Gonzo and the GBU wants to have a scammer warning page on GBU.

Almighty Colin · 02-05-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 5 2005, 02:14 PM
If a group of people start setting standards , another group of people will see that as an opportunity to get rich by not adhering to those standards. ( You'll prolly find me in the other group)

International politics?

MrIzzz · 02-05-2005

interesting replies, thank you.

i know for a fact that slowly but surely this industry will become structured. i myself am hoping for it.

those who wish to continue making money illegally or outside the norm will continue to flourish, i have no problem with that. to each their own. let them take the heat that the governments bring down upon them.

however, the laws will always change and we will always be confronted by our own doomsday, but the companies that continue to adapt to the everchanging laws will prosper.

i look at a company like playboy and what they have achieved. they overcame the laws that were worse in their beginning then they are now, yet look at what playboy has become.

i am not talking solely about an online company that has a ton of paysites, i am talking about a company, organized to its full potential, and ran like a true corporation. no need for public investors either.

lol, my points are all over the place since i'm in a hurry to go out to dinner. hopefully i can clarify this a bit later on

*KK* · 02-05-2005

Playboy's not a good example of doing well online )

gonzo · 02-05-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by Nickatilynx@Feb 5 2005, 02:14 PM

I think Gonzo and the GBU wants to have a scammer warning page on GBU.

Someone has been drinking a LOT of Lens Kool Aid... Playboy has NEVER done well online. They totally missed the boat when it comes to dealing with the web. I remember meeting with them years ago at Comdex in Atlanta to give them feedback on their first online venture. They wanted to charge consumers a monthly rate to connect to their dial up system via a 1-800 number. Instead of using it as a new revenue stream they only wanted to use it as a preview to what was coming in the magazine. At $30 a month...which at the time was way more than what it cost to just buy the iusse... I would say that they totally missed the boat. No different today. Their promotional restrictions must be a nightmare for Lens to deal with... and ask yourself... how many times have you seen those sites promoted outside of GFY?

In response to Nick...

I am currently working with Newton to feature both productive and nonproductive businesses/sponsors in the new magazine he is in charge of...

Its my hopes that the GBU turns into an important stop when anyone considers a new sponsor or consultant.

The Fat Fucking Designer has his assigment to revamp the look of those pages to have more of a Wild Wild West look...ala Deadwood.

We wont call em scammers but rather just quote Al Sweringer...

"Just another cocksucker..."

Speaking of which... Evil Chris did you get your check yet?

MrIzzz · 02-06-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by *KK*@Feb 5 2005, 04:22 PM
Playboy's not a good example of doing well online )

maybe you misunderstood my statement. i look at playboy and what they have achieved over the years through adversity, not neccesarily with their online endeavors, but how they've been a complete company.

basically, what the main purpose of this thread is, is that i am tired of dealing with little kids or adults that act like kids in this business. if i pay a designer to have my work done by the 30th, i want it done, if someone pays me to send them x amount of joins, yet they shave me, i want to press charges against them for larsony, etc...

too much of this fly-by-night shit in this business.

its all good though, this will change in due time

Hell Puppy · 02-06-2005

This goes back to what I said. The well run companies will survive the storms.

Meanwhile, the business is full of people who have made small fortunes (and a few large ones) during the boom times only to end up flat broke on their ass when whatever well they were exploiting dried up.

Raven · 02-06-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by *KK*@Feb 5 2005, 11:05 AM
I don't see it happening, Izzz. You can't get 12 program owners to meet on time in the lobby of a Vegas hotel and decide where they are going to dinner in less than an hour. And those are the organized ones.

Now let's add in the petty disputes and outright dislikes (ok, hatreds in some case) of the various people with stature (I use that term very loosely) against one another. Then let's toss in the competitive edge to get traffic and sales.

After that we'd mix a cup or two of potential government intervention, either criminal or civil (like the FTC's current spam campaign), toss in some lawsuits (and there are always more of these going around than anyone would ever guess) and top it off with the proverbial cherry -- the egos.

Not much chance of anything structurally happening, imo.

You sure you're not talking about the American Psychiatric Association, KK?

Almighty Colin · 02-06-2005

Quote:

Originally posted by MrIzzz@Feb 6 2005, 01:38 AM
basically, what the main purpose of this thread is, is that i am tired of dealing with little kids or adults that act like kids in this business. if i pay a designer to have my work done by the 30th, i want it done, if someone pays me to send them x amount of joins, yet they shave me, i want to press charges against them for larsony, etc...

too much of this fly-by-night shit in this business.

its all good though, this will change in due time

I know where you are coming from.

Mainstream is like this too. Even non-internet. Contractors, etc. Over the years, I've built up a network of people whom I know and can trust to get work done. I think this happens in any business.

We have our own designers and programmers on staff and that solves many such problems but not all. When I first started in business I made a lot of hiring mistakes. Over the years that has happened much less..

Mike AI · 02-06-2005

This is a great thread. Colin is tossing pearls!!

earl:

Wizzo · 02-06-2005

Good thread...

This being a cash driven biz, it will always maintain a certain amount of "wildwest" appeal to those that are willing to act outside of any structure and getting enough people within the "structure" to respond will never happen, because most people in this biz 1st loyalty is to the almighty dollar!

I've often thought if a "structure" could be put in place it would benefit everyone involved. It would have to be a structure more like the mob had years ago, than anything you find in the corp. world today. Getting enough people in this biz. to view long-term benefits of such a structure is a waste and more importantly the main problem with this is, the same problem with communism, on paper it works great in reality it would fail.

02-05-2005	#1
MrIzzz Members Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 66	since our industry has been made up of freelance free-spirited entrepeneurs from day one, do you believe if we were more organized and companies actually abided by a more corporate structure that this industry would be able to grow even greater? would being more structured help curtail all the scammers and cheaters? or would the leading companies be hampered, since cheating and skimming would also be more punishable, because affiliates would noww actually take corps to court? would there even be affiliates anymore? just a passing thought so i have left the questions vague for now __________________ Cheap advertising solutions for traffic generation

02-05-2005	#2
Raven Internet Annoyance Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Washington State Posts: 575	I know the companies who retain my services and become more organised, with short and long range planning, plus coordination of projects, along with focus, prosper..... I believe every corporate entity needs to be organised, in order to function efficiently. There's too much waste and too many visionaries who need grounding and structure. To further clarify, if corporations would structure themselves, the industry would follow. __________________ Raven If You'd Just Do It My Way, Your Life Would Be Better 27331641 Celeb Traffic? Go here: RevshareRewards

02-05-2005	#5
CuriousToyBoy Members Join Date: May 2004 Location: The Great Southern Land Posts: 986	All I know is that the really great thing about not planning is that failure comes as a total surpise and is not preceeded by great amounts of stress and worry If I didn't have structure, I would be rooted. h34r: __________________ CuriousCash - 100% Exclusive Twink Sites Since 1999 <===> EuroSexFeed - 25 Niche DVD Content For Less Than $1 Gb Adult Who's Who ==> Ambush Interview ==> ICQ 293 070 684 ==> lindsay AT sbmgt DOT com

02-05-2005	#9
MrIzzz Members Join Date: Jan 2005 Posts: 66	interesting replies, thank you. i know for a fact that slowly but surely this industry will become structured. i myself am hoping for it. those who wish to continue making money illegally or outside the norm will continue to flourish, i have no problem with that. to each their own. let them take the heat that the governments bring down upon them. however, the laws will always change and we will always be confronted by our own doomsday, but the companies that continue to adapt to the everchanging laws will prosper. i look at a company like playboy and what they have achieved. they overcame the laws that were worse in their beginning then they are now, yet look at what playboy has become. i am not talking solely about an online company that has a ton of paysites, i am talking about a company, organized to its full potential, and ran like a true corporation. no need for public investors either. lol, my points are all over the place since i'm in a hurry to go out to dinner. hopefully i can clarify this a bit later on __________________ Cheap advertising solutions for traffic generation

02-06-2005	#16
Mike AI Administrator Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 11,618	This is a great thread. Colin is tossing pearls!! earl: __________________ Make big money on your Domains! Why wait 40 days to get paid with the other guys? Parked.com pays the most for your traffic, and cuts checks twice a month!

02-05-2005	#4
Hell Puppy Fat Fucking Nobody Want to see your own Advertising Here! Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 6,523	I dont know that it would benefit the industry as a whole. It would send a lot of people back to Wendy's. Almost all industries evolve in a similar manner. The early days will be wild west and dominated by the innovators and those who are simply willing to work a little harder, longer and smarter than the next guy. As an industry matures, there will come saturation followed by shrinking margins and ultimately consolidation. Consolidation and scaling necessitate more structure. Those who survive will be those market leaders who have the most business sense and are the best organized and operationally sound. With all that said, there are a few key differences in the adult world that make it a bit of a wild card. First off, there's the question of how much adult industry will the government tolerate on the internet before trying to contain it. Then there's the fact we're totally hamstrung by processing, which makes even the largest adult empire's income tied to a house of cards economically. And perhaps most importantly, Wall Street hasn't been very accepting of adult entities as public companies, which makes the growth plan for an adult business totally different than a typical start up.

02-05-2005	#6
KK Members Respin bullshit press Your Comments Are Welcomed Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 2,581	I don't see it happening, Izzz. You can't get 12 program owners to meet on time in the lobby of a Vegas hotel and decide where they are going to dinner in less than an hour. And those are the organized ones. Now let's add in the petty disputes and outright dislikes (ok, hatreds in some case) of the various people with stature (I use that term very loosely) against one another. Then let's toss in the competitive edge to get traffic and sales. After that we'd mix a cup or two of potential government intervention, either criminal or civil (like the FTC's current spam campaign), toss in some lawsuits (and there are always more of these going around than anyone would ever guess) and top it off with the proverbial cherry -- the egos. Not much chance of anything structurally happening, imo.

02-06-2005	#17
Wizzo Members Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 247	Good thread... This being a cash driven biz, it will always maintain a certain amount of "wildwest" appeal to those that are willing to act outside of any structure and getting enough people within the "structure" to respond will never happen, because most people in this biz 1st loyalty is to the almighty dollar! I've often thought if a "structure" could be put in place it would benefit everyone involved. It would have to be a structure more like the mob had years ago, than anything you find in the corp. world today. Getting enough people in this biz. to view long-term benefits of such a structure is a waste and more importantly the main problem with this is, the same problem with communism, on paper it works great in reality it would fail. __________________ See Who I Am At AdultWhosWho.com!