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Its a felony to create a distribute a virus.
Some forms of spyware autodownload on to your machine with out your permission and at minimum slows down resources and is a pain in the ass to get rid of. Do you think it should be a felony as well?
Listen tonight at 9pm EST on Opranoradio.com and decide for yourself. We are bringing on folks to tell you what these things do...how much productivity has been lost as a result of them and even how to get rid of the damn thing.
Whine,complain, accept it. Oprano Radio-Listen UP!
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
spyware? Adaware, spybot, and cw shredder are all good, and there are a few others.
Gonzo, this is an easy poll. Any program installed without permission, and program that changes anything on my system, adds favorties, changes the home page, whatever, is a tresspass onto my computer and shoudl be treated exactly like a virus. There is no proof that these spyware things won't suddenly go trojan and start a DOS attack on someone.
It's a marketter's dream, being able to FORCE consumers to do what you want them to.
Alex
PS: speaking of viruses, watch out for "bagel"... I am starting to get service calls to kill it.
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Let's go to the edge of disaster Push the pedal and go a little faster Let's slam into a wall at ramming speed Let's go to the edge of a mountain Jump off and lets start countin' Hit the ground and tell me if it bleeds
My BIGGEST gripe about this shit is the inability to uninstall it.
The auto-installs piss me off to no end as well
I use adaware and spybot almost daily and it's really getting to be a pain in the ass.
I have no problems with spam because I can filter and delete fucking spam....but this spyware, adware shit is just going too far. Although I know all the major "players" are scrambling to get auto-installing toolbars and this kind of bullshit to protecte their margins.
I personally find the chaos a little funny. I can't remember the word, but there is a Geman expression about taking joy in someone elese's failures and sometimes when I see these bigger programs get knocked down a peg or 3, a little part of me gets excited.
Originally posted by gonzo@May 4 2004, 04:32 PM if you tune in and we arent there it means Comast has failed again and I cant connect to the net. No radio show via dialup!
Or the dreaded Auto-install Toolbar Mafia has gotten to you
I'd be curious as to how many of you have made money off unsuspecting porn surfers failing to read the T&C of a site they have joined...
My machine is spyware free, I run adaware once in a blue moon just to be sure, and yes I update the settings prior to running it, but I simply don't download programs that leave any lingering questions in my mind as to their true colors.
Originally posted by *KK*@May 4 2004, 06:03 PM I'd be curious as to how many of you have made money off unsuspecting porn surfers failing to read the T&C of a site they have joined...
My machine is spyware free, I run adaware once in a blue moon just to be sure, and yes I update the settings prior to running it, but I simply don't download programs that leave any lingering questions in my mind as to their true colors.
Apples and oranges...
Its not a willing download. Its a forced download on a surfer and the webmaster that had the counter code on his machine didnt know that it would be later used to make anyone that clicked a link to his page into a spyware bitch.
You of all people know that the recurring biz model where the surfer "forgets" that they are going to be rebilled is dead. Matter of fact...I recall not to long ago reading a piece that you wrote on Max cash in the news section when you were with CCBill explaining that the average cancellation span of a surfer was around 3 months.
The heart of the matter is treat the surfer like a customer/client as opposed to a mark.
You do a lot of consulting...Im sure you agree with that.
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
can one still get spyware autoinstalled if they have things like zonealarm, norton, high browser security settings ??
traveling a lot this year and in some cases using public computers, and private i've noticed that ALL yes all of them had homepages and search link changed, meaning they all has some kind of adware installed
Originally posted by gonzo@May 4 2004, 03:09 PM Apples and oranges...
Its not a willing download. Its a forced download on a surfer and the webmaster that had the counter code on his machine didnt know that it would be later used to make anyone that clicked a link to his page into a spyware bitch.
You of all people know that the recurring biz model where the surfer "forgets" that they are going to be rebilled is dead. Matter of fact...I recall not to long ago reading a piece that you wrote on Max cash in the news section when you were with CCBill explaining that the average cancellation span of a surfer was around 3 months.
The heart of the matter is treat the surfer like a customer/client as opposed to a mark.
You do a lot of consulting...Im sure you agree with that.
Couple of points -- I haven't written anything for Maxcash or that would be used by MC in a long time, nor have I been with CCBill for almost 3 years.
Second, any idiot that thinks that webmasters are a target market for spyware that is consumer oriented is an idiot.
Third, the recurring model is not dead. Not by a long shot. Overdue for some changes yes, but not dead. The reseller model as we know it is the one that *I* think should die...
Last but not least, I'm still of, and probably always will be, the "Nick" mindset. Surfers are a bunch of bandwidth sucking freeloaders until they spend money and should be treated as such. I'm NOT saying double bill them, cross sell them to death without clear disclosure or any of those things. What I AM saying is if you look at the popularity of Kazaa, Morpheus (all those damn spyware supported programs where the freeloading bastards go to find their free porn) it's clear and obvious that the surfer's got the upper hand, especially if he knows how to charge back.
It's a vicious cycle and maybe one day it will be broken. But for the time being it is what it is, and either you work within it and make money or you don't.
The whole entire system needs an overhaul, and until it's a forced thing, I don't see it coming.
I was quoting what you wrote that was on Maxcash in the past. I might even be able to find it on one of these machines around here. Struck me as a pretty savvy person at the time.
Just color me an idiot then. Hell what do I know anyhow?
Of the Nick mindset? Did you start building sites again??
The whole system needs a fucking enema!
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
KK who said they were targetting webmasters specifically? I didn't see that post?
Our point is that we, as well as the general public of computer users, have been caused problems by these various forms of spyware. We are using ourselves as an example of a group of people who should have enough knowledge NOT to be effected by these - and yet we are.
Sure, customers are bloody sucking free searching bastards - but some of them buy stuff. I used the example yesterday - my parents stopped using their computer due to it not working the way they needed it to. How many others do the same?
Its one thing to not give your surfer a free massage & footrub when they surf on in, but when a small group of companies is trying to get a monopoly over all surfers by doing something underhanded - therefore making less customers for us - what would you expect us to do? Bend over and say 'come on in hooper'?
Originally posted by cj@May 4 2004, 11:21 PM Its one thing to not give your surfer a free massage & footrub when they surf on in, but when a small group of companies is trying to get a monopoly over all surfers by doing something underhanded - therefore making less customers for us - what would you expect us to do? Bend over and say 'come on in hooper'?
Shoulda used Quick Buck - owwwwwwwwwww
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
Originally posted by slavdogg@May 4 2004, 08:35 PM can one still get spyware autoinstalled if they have things like zonealarm, norton, high browser security settings ??
Exactly, Slav. Between Zone Alarm and having ActiveX turned off, I hardly get any of the crap others seem to get. Plus AVG and SpyHunter take care of what ever crumbs might actually get through.
Running zonealarm on all pc's but our new BT-Yahoo router has it's own firewall and the damn keeps downloading updates, which can be a royal pain in the ass at times because we can't configure it... well they think we can't but with our home-made console cable we can
So we get no problems at all here, but we do run Spyhunter now and again...
I don't know which one it is exactly..but it loads before windows starts..
i ran adaware and spybot S&D....still comes back with the next boot...
I will try your info today Gonzo!
this is one of the underlying reasons i left this industry...you could just see this type of shit comning down the pipe........got a lot of ferrari payments to keep up with....fuckers.
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It don't mean a thing if you ain't got the BLING! (coming soon!)
Originally posted by SykkBoy@May 4 2004, 11:00 AM I can't remember the word, but there is a Geman expression about taking joy in someone elese's failures
Originally posted by Jim@May 5 2004, 06:07 AM I don't know which one it is exactly..but it loads before windows starts..
i ran adaware and spybot S&D....still comes back with the next boot...
I will try your info today Gonzo!
this is one of the underlying reasons i left this industry...you could just see this type of shit comning down the pipe........got a lot of ferrari payments to keep up with....fuckers.
I know it works. Dont thank me.
Thank Defensive Thinking, Kevin Mitnick, Darci Wood and Steve Gibson.
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
Originally posted by slavdogg@May 4 2004, 07:35 PM can one still get spyware autoinstalled if they have things like zonealarm, norton, high browser security settings ??
traveling a lot this year and in some cases using public computers, and private i've noticed that ALL yes all of them had homepages and search link changed, meaning they all has some kind of adware installed
I know for certain that Norton 2003 and 2004 have script protection and do a pretty good job of stopping auto-installs.
You also take out 99% of them by simply disabling ActiveX. If you have sites you use that HAVE to have it, make it available only to trusted sites and define those sites as trusted.
If you use a browser other than MSIE, you're also unlikely to get bitten.
As for cybercafes and such, the better ones use Ghost (or similar) and wipe their machines and clean install overnight every night.
As for the original question of is spyware a virus....
Spyware is a bit of a misnomer for all of this....spyware refers to things like gator which specifically leech your personal info for marketing purposes and phone it home. Something like Hooper's toolbar is not really spyware per se, just grouped with it because of it's scummy tendancies. Let's call them scumware.
Is it a virus?
How do you define a virus? If you define a virus as something that arrives on your machine unexpectedly without you asking for it or agreeing to it, and makes your machine behave in a manner that you do not wish or desire, then certainly anything that autoinstalls without so much as clicking a T&C would be considered a virus.
Originally posted by *KK*@May 4 2004, 10:20 PM
Last but not least, I'm still of, and probably always will be, the "Nick" mindset. Surfers are a bunch of bandwidth sucking freeloaders until they spend money and should be treated as such. I'm NOT saying double bill them, cross sell them to death without clear disclosure or any of those things. What I AM saying is if you look at the popularity of Kazaa, Morpheus (all those damn spyware supported programs where the freeloading bastards go to find their free porn) it's clear and obvious that the surfer's got the upper hand, especially if he knows how to charge back.
Yeah, but a lot of folx do not even give the surfer a fair shake after they have his money. Instead of treating him as a customer then, they simply look for the next quick upsell to extract some more money. Amateur sites have historically been the best at treating their members well and consequently usually have excellent retention rates. Coincidence? Not hardly.
I agree with cutting the surfer no slack if he's just free loading....making it a pain in the ass to get free porn is a pretty good way to incent him to buy. However, there's a fine line to walk there. If you go too far, you're pissing in the well by killing their trust. We've already made a large percentage of the market afraid to use their credit cards, we're in danger of making them hesitent to surf adult sites in general for fear of having their PC's trashed. The demand for porn will always be there, but you risk pushing them to things like Kazaa for their fix instead of the web itself.
I do agree that the current business models are largely way past due for an overhaul.
KK you are responsibile for another spoof!
I have seen the error of my ways. And if you thought the fur coat was bad....wait till you get a [autodown]load of me!
__________________
We are putting the bastards of this world on notice; greed and corruption will always be met with "a voice made of ink and rage."
"Never try and be like anyone else" - Hunter S. Thompson
"The truth is the truth no matter how you try and package a lie" - Shellee Hale
05-04-2004
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