RawAlex, fuck you

[Winetalk.com]

whatta you gonna say now?

[Almighty Colin]

Serge,

Source?

[Winetalk.com]

Originally posted by Colin@Apr 4 2003, 12:50 PM
Serge,

Source?

2 sources:
CIA testing team and independent test made by MSNBC journalists,
place-
Al Queda training team

[Almighty Colin]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/895185.asp?0cv=CA01

Isn't that region under Kurd "control"?



Last edited by Colin at Apr 4 2003, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Colin@Apr 4 2003, 12:53 PM
http://www.msnbc.com/news/895185.asp?0cv=CA01

Isn't that region under Kurd "control"?

not all of it. there was a terrorist camp that was destroyed last week. BBC was there doing several interviews with them before they began the war. during one of the briefings last week, they showed the place being destroyed.

[Almighty Colin]

Considering that this is not a state building, don't we have to prove knowledge on Saddam's part? I mean, we had Anthrax being mailed to people in the US but it didn't mean George Bush was behind it or had knowledge of it.

[Carrie]

Serge it's a useless cause.
Even if a picture of Saddam was released with him HOLDING the damn Ricin, people would say he had no knowledge of what was in the vial - or we can't prove what was in the vial, blah blah blah.

People will believe what they WANT to believe, and nothing else.

Originally posted by Colin@Apr 4 2003, 01:10 PM
Considering that this is not a state building, don't we have to prove knowledge on Saddam's part? I mean, we had Anthrax being mailed to people in the US but it didn't mean George Bush was behind it or had knowledge of it.

What has to be "proven"? The war began last week. You can catch up on CNN or BBC (but preferably "Alex approved newsource"... as he has said, CNN does't count).

I think people will only remember:

"Al Queda"
"Terrorist camp"
"Poisons"
"Iraq"

people have a tendency to skip the details.

[Almighty Colin]

Originally posted by Carrie@Apr 4 2003, 01:28 PM
Serge it's a useless cause.
Even if a picture of Saddam was released with him HOLDING the damn Ricin, people would say he had no knowledge of what was in the vial - or we can't prove what was in the vial, blah blah blah.

People will believe what they WANT to believe, and nothing else.

Well, *I* want WMD"s to be found. Warehouses full of them. I thought about this before the war and decided for my personal analysis [for ME], I wouldn't consider WMD's found in terrorist camps in Kurd controlled [or non-Iraqi controled] areas to be evidence of Saddam's use of WMD. I thought that was likely that would occur, but didn't think that would be valid evidence.

I believe Saddam has WMD. I believe we will find them. I don't believe these count.

So in this case, you are wrong. I want WMD's to be found but this doesn't count without proof of a link to Saddam - which doesn't mean there isn't one.

There are chemical weapons in the US too but that doesn't mean they are under government control. There are people in the US with ties to al-Qaeda but that doesn't mean George Bush is collaborating with al-Qaeda.

This will be simple to prove in the end. There are hundreds of scientists in Iraq that will be interviewed after the fall of Iraq and will be able to conclusively prove Saddam's recent involvement in developing or storing WMD - assuming there has been. That something is found inside your borders is the weakest sign of evidence there is. Does the United States deal in cocaine because it is found inside our borders?

[gigi]

There are hundreds of scientists in Iraq that will be interviewed after the fall of Iraq and will be able to conclusively prove Saddam's recent involvement in developing or storing WMD - assuming there has been.

Agreed. And this is EXACTLY what I hope (and think) will happen.

[T-Rav]

well said Colin...

As usual...

Thank allah for Colin, I don't even have to read or post on any of the War/Political discussions anymore (I always hated them anyway, cuz I don't have time to express my opinions and back them up, etc, etc...plus I spend way too much time catching up on all the posts). Well, the reason I don't have to anymore, is because 99% of the time I agree with Colin.

Keep up the good work Colin.

That is all...

[slavdogg]

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/sou...-home-headlines

Mustard, cyanide found in Euphrates River, MSNBC reports

[RawAlex]

Serge, what's the problem? I am hoping it is found as well... mostly becuase I don't want all the other arab countries to get pissed off...

I hope they can find something nice and big... with all the stuff that was claimed, there has to be huge warehouses FULL of stuff... that would be the best.

Alex

[Winetalk.com]

Alex, arabs will be pissed regardless...
you don't beleive this war is about WMD, do you?

I don't
;-))

[RawAlex]

I think it was about alot of things, Serge... but Bush chose WMD as the thing to hang his hat on. WMD need to be found to prove the US was right... if not, well, I think it is going to get uglier.

I hope them find something good... give those countries that helped the US out in the fight a way to tell their people that they were right... Saudi Arabia and other friendly nations need to justify their actions too...

Akex

[Carrie]

Colin, you mean you *don't* believe the US is involved in Cocaine trafficing? (Trafficking? traffuckhowthehelldoyaspellthating?)
I sure think the CIA is. Nooo, I don't have any links...

A few days before the ultimatum was handed down, one ship left port from Iraq loaded to the gills and made for fast, deep waters and did her best to disappear.
Two days later two more ships left port, ambled along, and went along their merry way following normal routes and acting as if everything were normal.
The Navy is watching all of them, tracking all of them. They actually lost the first one for a short while but picked her up again about 24 hours later.

IF (yes I said if for the benefit of the skeptical) Saddam had any WMDs that the inspectors didn't find, I think he would've gotten it the hell out of dodge. He knew what was coming.

However, that being said, there are literally hundreds of suspected chemical sites in Iraq and our troops haven't even touched a handful of them. I think the last statistic I saw was that we'd been in 1% of them. So even after all of this is over, there will still be a LOT of searching to do, and it's going to take time.

There are hundreds of scientists in Iraq that will be interviewed after the fall of Iraq and will be able to conclusively prove Saddam's recent involvement in developing or storing WMD - assuming there has been.

I heard an interview with a man who claimed to be the head of Saddam's nuclear weapons program on the Art Bell show (yeah I know, consider the source - hey, I work late hours and don't want to watch Carlton Sheets infomercials) back in... god, September of last year I think? He said that when HE left(fled), Saddam was 6 months away from having nuclear capability, and he had already been gone a number of months.
I'm wondering now if this guy was real, why he hasn't been popping up on the TV shows. Could be that he still has family there he doesn't want endangered, could be the news shows don't want to spread "nuclear" panic, could be he was just a fake after all.
Either way, something interesting to think about.

Originally posted by RawAlex@Apr 4 2003, 10:48 PM
WMD need to be found to prove the US was right... if not, well, I think it is going to get uglier.

you believed it would get uglier before it began - didn't you post on Netpond that "it could be the bloodiest war in 50 years"?

how do you think finding weapons are going to change Islamic fundamentalists opinions of the USA and Isreal... and what is largely percieved in the Middle East to be a war against Islam?

poverty + archaic and twisted religious beliefs + 1000's of years of ethnic/religious hatred is going to go away if someone can offer further proof that Saddam Hussein is an asshole?

doubtful.

can you point out anyone protesting against the war because "Saddam Hussein and the Iraqi regime do not have weapons of mass destruction"?

please post those links if you can.




Last edited by -= JR =- at Apr 5 2003, 05:05 AM

[slavdogg]

Originally posted by Carrie@Apr 5 2003, 04:36 AM
I heard an interview with a man who claimed to be the head of Saddam's nuclear weapons program on the Art Bell show (yeah I know, consider the source - hey, I work late hours and don't want to watch Carlton Sheets infomercials) back in... god, September of last year I think? He said that when HE left(fled), Saddam was 6 months away from having nuclear capability, and he had already been gone a number of months.
I'm wondering now if this guy was real, why he hasn't been popping up on the TV shows. Could be that he still has family there he doesn't want endangered, could be the news shows don't want to spread "nuclear" panic, could be he was just a fake after all.
Either way, something interesting to think about.

i've seen that guy at least a dozen times on tv
he confirmed that nuclear reactor Israel destroyed was built with one purpose, to make nuclear bombs and that French were aware of it. The only reason he's hasn’t been popping up TV shows, well actually he has and there is NO nuclear panic when to comes to Iraq.


and btw its trafficking

[RawAlex]

JR, you are trying to read way more into my post than it says. I didn't say that finding wmd with change fundamentilists view of the US, but...

It might keep them for hating the US even more.

If the US finds the weapons, well, kewl, Iraq got invaded for a good reason, and their neighbors can sleep easier knowing that Iraq ain't gonna kill them all. I know they won't be grateful or say nice things. But it might keep those nations friendly to the US from facing serious problems as a result of this war.

Remember, Gulf War I was the situation that gave Bin Ladin his "reason" to hate the US (bases on Saudi land).

This is still looking like one of the bloodiest wars in many years. Considering the number of troops Saddam had, and the number that appear left, the deaths are in the tens of thousands. More importantly, this is the most US soldiers who have died or been injured in combat is a long time...

... and baghdad hasn't been taken yet.

We'll see how it turns out, I guess.

Alex

[Winetalk.com]

This is still looking like one of the bloodiest wars in many years. Considering the number of troops Saddam had, and the number that appear left, the deaths are in the tens of thousands. More importantly, this is the most US soldiers who have died or been injured in combat is a long time...


**********************88

sorry Alex, I don't do this very often lately,
but you ARE an idiot

I am starting to believe/expect that the media is going to be literally flooded with so many stories of executions, torture, brutality, use of human shields, info on weapons programs, confessions of people in the know, testimony of people who participated in all of the above that its not going to matter if they find a single Anthrax spore or not.

today, the military found a warehouse full of bags of body parts of 200 or 300 people that had been executed - well before the war. these finds are certain to increase as things progress as will other politically relevent finds. i think the entire issue of WMD's is far behind us now.

the information war will be won by the USA. the art of information warfare is being perfected right now and its power as a decisive weapon is fully realized and understood. (the Iraqi side looks more like comedy at this point but thats another story).

[RawAlex]

Serge, thanks...

Alex

[RawAlex]

JR, I do have to agree... Iraq has shown how really low they can go... and the US officials appear to be doing a better job in the last few days especially showing off some of the stupid things they have found... the anti-aircraft gun in the schoolyard was a very good example.

Alex