Stores targeting tantrums

[TheEnforcer]

In light of the spirited talk we had in Sin's original thgread about kids and their behaviour in public I thought this article would certainly garner some interest.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...0552-8712r.htm

Stores target tantrums
December 6, 2005


CHICAGO (AP) -- Dan McCauley had seen one too many children at his cafe lying on the floor in front of the counter, careening off the glass pastry case, coming perilously close to getting their fingers pinched in the front door. So he posted a sign: "Children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices."
To him, it was a simple reminder to parents to keep an eye on their children and set some limits. But to some parents in his North Side Chicago neighborhood, the sign may as well have read, "If you have kids, you're not welcome."
That notice, adorned with pastel handprints, has become a lightning rod in a larger debate over parenting and misbehaving children.
"It's not about the kids," says Mr. McCauley, the 44-year-old owner of A Taste of Heaven cafe, who has no children but says he likes them a lot. "It's about the parents who are with them. Are they supervising and guiding them?
"I'm just asking that they are considerate to people around them."
Although he has created some enemies in his neighborhood, Mr. McCauley has received hundreds of calls and more than 600 letters, the overwhelming majority of them supportive. One person from Alabama typed out in bold letters: "In my opinion, you're a hero! Keep it up."
It is a sentiment that people increasingly feel comfortable expressing. Web loggers regularly make impassioned pleas for child-free zones in public, and e-mailers have been forwarding a photograph of a sign in an unidentified business that reads, "Unattended Children Will Be Given an Espresso and a Puppy."
Although it is common policy for upscale restaurants to bar children, owners of other types of businesses also are setting limits.
The Wynn Las Vegas, for instance, does not allow visitors who aren't guests to have strollers; hotel officials say it is to prevent crashes with other pedestrians. The Bellagio Hotel does not take guests younger than 18 without special permission.
All Booked Up in Suffolk, Va., is among bookstores that have separate sections where children can play and rest. Many ballparks have alcohol-free "family sections." And a few restaurants have added separate dining areas for parents with children.
Some parents are fine with setting limits and complain that too many of their peers take their children to places traditionally meant for adults, such as late-night movies and rock concerts.
Still, although they agree that some parents push the boundaries too far, other weary parents feel under siege -- and misunderstood.
"Don't get me wrong. As a parent, I have an arsenal that includes the deadly stare, loss of privileges and 'We're going back to the car, right now,'?" says Angela Toda, a 38-year-old mother of two small children in College Park. "But the bottom line is, there are certain moments that all kids and parents have -- and sometimes your kid is going to lose it in a public place."

[MorganGrayson]

Gee. I wish I'd thought to post that in Sin's original thread yesterday. Oh. Wait a minute. I did.

(Just funnin' with ya, TE! )

[TheEnforcer]

Damn...

Well I'll try and find the article from a madison paper I read about a month ago that is just the opposite. They did an article on adison restaurants that don't have any problems with people bringing their kids unlike many snoooty eateries in chicago.

[selena]

I've seen alot of alleged grownups that acted more boorish that the worst 3 year old.

Personally, I'll take the kids misbehaving over an idiot adult any day.

[Red]

I don't see anything wrong with putting up a sign like that. I've worked retail and seen parents that let their kids just run wild.

Store owners have the right to make the rules in their establishments and if a parent is insulted, let them take their business elsewhere.

[Red]

Originally Posted by selena

I've seen alot of alleged grownups that acted more boorish that the worst 3 year old.

Personally, I'll take the kids misbehaving over an idiot adult any day.

I agree that some adults are worse than kids, but if a store put up a sign that idiot adults are not allowed, the idiots would never think that it pertained to them.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by selena

I've seen alot of alleged grownups that acted more boorish that the worst 3 year old.

Personally, I'll take the kids misbehaving over an idiot adult any day.

selena...definitely true. It isn't children that are ripping "on sale" sweaters out of other people's hands in department stores.

I don't think I've ever seen a "public display" by a child that I didn't blame on the parents. Sure, all kids act up occasionally. But, unlike adults, children usually have a reason. Tired, hungry, even being greedy is a "reason." If you're going to take your kids out in public, which you should, you learn to handle them all. Never take out a tired, hungry child. Have the kid go to the bathroom first. Most of all, pay constant attention to the child. I've seen people shop who had absolutely no idea of the physical location of their child. I just don't understand that. I know what a minute period of time it takes to lose a child...permanently. Yes, people with four kids need to go to the grocery. But damn it, teach them how to behave. Kids actually crave approval and rewards for doing things right. A simple "I'm very proud of you, you behaved very well in the grocery store. Ice cream?" with a hug works wonders.

Back when the kids were little, an "all you can eat" buffet opened. It was the first in Louisville. The absolute perfect place to take kids. You could say to the kid "whatever you want, g'head" and not worry about paying for a meal the child wouldn't eat. (One of my daughters always had strawberries and bacon bits with whatever else she chose. Wierd, but it made her happy.) The floor was tile covered with rubber mats. Therefore, when one of my kids attempted the "I want to do it myself" soda refill and didn't make it back to the table with a full glass, the smiling attendent said "this is why we have rubber mats on the floor. We're set up for kids. No problem."

My husband and I were in a family restaurant recently and a woman brought in six children. I made certain I announced to my husband in a voice that carried "those are the most polite children I've ever heard!" (They were.) This woman wasn't a drill sergeant, either. She was polite *herself* and had trained all six of the chilluns to wait their turn to pick out their order.

Those fancy - what TE called "snooty" - restaurants are for adults. Kids shouldn't start going to those until they start hitting "landmark" birthdays. The ones that you dress up for. When I go out with my husband to a "fancy" restaurant, which is rarely, I can't stand them, I want to be with adults. Other times, I want the buzz and chatter of happy families.

I used to go to a church that had thoughtfully - and wisely - provided a soundproofed room for parents to take babies that began to cry. The sermon, or whatever, was piped in and there was a glass window. The parents didn't miss anything and they could tend to their babies without driving anyone insane with the echoes of the crying.

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Red

I don't see anything wrong with putting up a sign like that. I've worked retail and seen parents that let their kids just run wild.

Store owners have the right to make the rules in their establishments and if a parent is insulted, let them take their business elsewhere.

Red...my youngest's career in retail was made a living hell by one particular customer...who brought in her three little animals, let them run wild - they actually destroyed things! - and she'd giggle (I hate adults who giggle) and say "oh, they're just so precocious!" My daughter called me and said "I keep thinking about what you would have done to ME if I had behaved like that!" I just said "hang in there, honey. California has the death penalty so you don't *really* want to slaughter the bitch."

[TheEnforcer]

http://www.madison.com/archives/read...2:536668:FRONT

Crepes And Crayons
Unlike Chicago, Madison Eateries Like Kids\

The Capital Times :: FRONT :: 1A
Friday, December 2, 2005
By Samara Kalk Derby The Capital Times
As new parents, Benjamin and Christy Roberts were understandably nervous about toting their 4-month-old along on an anniversary dinner at L'Etoile.
But no one at Madison's most renowned restaurant even flinched.

That's because most of the city's restaurants are remarkably kid-friendly, even those with white linen tablecloths and $20-plus entrees. It's also because so many restaurant owners have their own young children, they point out.

Of course, now, as a father of three kids between the ages of 2 and 5, Roberts said he would never dream of taking children under 13 to the Blue Marlin, Restaurant Magnus, Cafe Continental or any of the city's other upper-echelon restaurants.



These days, it's either Pasqual's or takeout, said Roberts, who co-owns the Southwestern-style restaurants in Verona and on Monroe Street.

"There is no way I would take my kids to any of those other places now just for the sanity of the other guests," Roberts said. "I would be too worried that somebody was going to melt down. It always happens when you don't want it to happen."

The issue of bringing children into restaurants -- Chuck E. Cheese's notwithstanding -- boiled over in a neighborhood on Chicago's North Side when a cafe owner posted a sign warning that "children of all ages have to behave and use their indoor voices when coming to A Taste of Heaven." The restaurant's owner, Dan McCauley, told the New York Times last month that he posted the sign in the hopes of lowering the volume in his tin-ceilinged business, where toddlers are not always in control of their bodies and decibels.

Many neighborhood mothers were nonetheless offended, interpreting it as a message that their children were not welcome, or worse, a comment on their parenting.

"Part of parenting skills is teaching kids they behave differently in a restaurant than they do on the playground," McCauley told the Times.

* * *

On a recent trip to Chicago, Finn Berge said he was taken aback upon entering John's Place, a well-known "family" restaurant in Lincoln Park. It had a 3- or 4-foot poster by its door instructing parents on how to control their children.

Berge, a partner in Restaurant Magnus, said that children have never been a problem at Magnus or any of his Barriques coffee and wine stores.

As a parent of young children himself, Berge said he knows how to handle little ones who may start to squawk by the time the second course rolls around.

"There are protocols to appeasing children as quickly as possible if the parents want to have a lengthy dinner," Berge said.

As he knows first-hand: "As soon as you sit down the clock is ticking."

While Magnus doesn't have highchairs, the staff will usually show children to its booth seats, which are higher and more comfortable, Berge said. The staff at Magnus, many of whom are also parents, will offer kids cheese and other foods and introduce them to items on the menu that can be designed to accommodate them.

Fyfe's Corner Bistro is another high-end restaurant that tries to make dining out enjoyable for children as well as their parents.

"I'm all for it," owner Keith Blew said about children dining in their parents' restaurants. When they opened Fyfe's 12 years ago they had two high chairs and two booster seats and never used them, Blew said.

"Now I have six high chairs and six booster chairs and there are certain nights when I run out," he said.

Blew, who is president of the local chapter of the Wisconsin Restaurant Association, said he is seeing a new generation of parents who are interested in taking their children out to nice restaurants instead of feeding them Chicken McNuggets.

Many of these customers began coming to the restaurant when they were dating, some even had their receptions at Fyfe's, Blew said.

"Now they have kids and are still coming. It's great," said Blew, who with his wife, Laura, adopted two brothers -- ages 2 and 4 -- from a Russian orphanage in July.

* * *

Renee Swanek, host at the upscale Nepali restaurant Chautara, said the restaurant generally gets one table with kids a night.

Swanek said the children can get impatient and there is nothing the restaurant can do to get families in and out quickly. The kitchen prepares dishes as orders come in.

The staff generally offers crayons, markers and paper for the kids, Swanek said. They also stock sippy cups.

"It's more the parents that are a problem, not the child," she said. "When the child gets upset, they get upset."

Families are not only welcome at Pedro's Mexican restaurants, they are a market that the local restaurant chain courts, said owner Jim Martine, who had just left his East Washington Avenue location where a clown was twisting balloon animals.

In fact, Pedro's is in the process of expanding its children's menu and offering a special menu for pre-teens.

Parents feel so comfortable bringing their children to Pedro's it's not unusual to see a highchair in the lounge area during happy hour, he said.

Martine agrees that some restaurants simply aren't suited for children.

"It's rather evident in some of those places. They don't have a kids menu and you get charged $36 for a petit filet. Maybe that's the way to discourage it."

The longtime restaurateur --whose own children are 14, 11 and 8 -- is a pro at handing a kid in mid-meltdown. He instructs his servers to get something in the child's hands, whether it's a little Andes chocolate mint or more crayons or paper.

"First of all you try to tell the parents it's OK because they are sweating. My first reaction is to Mom and Dad, because I've been there."

[MorganGrayson]

That's an excellent article, TE.

Thinking back on it...my kids have always gone to restaurants. We started at birth, in fact. I don't believe I've ever once been to a restaurant that didn't have a server that whipped out the little packet of saltine crackers. Those little suckers are like cocaine for kids, for some reason. I don't know what the hell they put in those things, but my toddlers in high chairs always had a gleam in their eye the minute they saw the packet. And they'd sit happily munching crackers while we ordered. Then my husband went into his "all the cool things I learned to do with the paper off a straw" routine, which they never got tired of.

And frankly, how difficult is it to bring crayons and coloring books *with you* when you take a kid to a restaurant if they aren't provided? Those baby bags are big for a reason. I always felt like they took less equipment for the landing at Normandy than we took when we took the kids out.

[Sin]

That 2nd article is great too and I love the line about how its the parents that get upset, not the kids... the parents get embarassed I suppose? Ethan (the 17 month old that I babysit) gets taken out to restaurants all the time, when he was just learning the art of a high pitched shrill scream, his mom or I would simply say to him, "No screaming please" and he'll stop. I notice with him that he responds a LOT better if I talk to him like I would talk to anybody with regular comprehension skills instead of assuming he doesn't understand and simply fussing.

I'm beginning to think that the excuse of "parenting doesn't come with a manual" isn't as much of an excuse as it used to have been. Kids to a degree if they are human, are all going to go through basically some of the same experiences, if there isn't a book there should be one... just on the basics.

I don't think it takes drill sergeant to raise polite children. Effort, yes. Patience (and a whole lot of it) yes. Occasionally some drill sergeant tactics but I don't think that should be the first tactical maneuver. Ethan's mum & dad lose patience (as parents do I suppose) and lately seem to start right out yelling at him or using "that tone" and get no response at all. Not sure why.... when I'm babysitting & he starts getting into things he's not supposed to I just use a normal tone of voice & ask him to please not do that & he stops. (But I don't have to deal with him on a daily basis either)

I think in my years of babysitting 2 ADD foster children, one of which had Tourettes, and being the "shelter home" for a year for the troubled kids of my neighborhood, and being lucky enough to watch Ethan grow up I think probably one of the most valuable lessons I've learned through observation & experience is to NEVER underestimate the comprehension levels of children. To me, that goes not only for how I talk to them, as well as watching the things I say around them.

Morgan as much as I don't go to church, that one you mentioned sounds AWESOME! They should make areas like that in restaurants for people with screaming babies... lol Kind of like the glassed off smoking areas hahaha...

Selena I agree 100% that I'd rather deal with an unruly child than an idiot adult ANYDAY. The child is still learning... there's hope there yet! LOL

[MorganGrayson]

Sin...you get results because what most kids would like is attention. Not to be fawned over, not to be made "the center of the universe" (that's way too much responsibility for a child) - just a calm word or two.

Even children whose "speaking" vocabulary is poor have a much higher comprehension level than most people realize. It's by speaking to them in a normal voice with your normal vocabulary that they learn to increase theirs.

[CDSmith]

My dad and I have dinner out together every Sunday. He is notorious for not liking the typical "parents who bring bratty kids to restaraunt and let them wail away and run amuck"

Anyway....there we are sitting in this restaurant one Sunday evening, and this single mother with 3 small children (all boys) comes in and gets seated at the table right beside us. I thought to myself (hoo boy, here it comes.... trouble)

I was wrong.

This woman's kids were great, very well-behaved, not too loud or whiney or bratty at all. I even noticed the one older one helping his younger sibling with something, I forget what but it was some small thing.

When my dad and I got up to leave later, I made it a point to pay this woman a compliment about her well-behaved kids. She replied with the old "AH.. heh heh, they aren't always like this, but thanks" kind of thing, but I could see my comment made her swell with pride just the same.

I just believe it's not only good but important to let people know when they're doing a good job, be it at their workplace or be it parenting. Her three boys (at least the older two) heard me clearly as well. Hopefully kids like that will one day remember to also step up and tell their mom (or dad) what a great job they did.

[Sin]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

I just believe it's not only good but important to let people know when they're doing a good job, be it at their workplace or be it parenting. Her three boys (at least the older two) heard me clearly as well. Hopefully kids like that will one day remember to also step up and tell their mom (or dad) what a great job they did.

That's very good positive reinforcement for the kids too, to hear compliments like that from strangers Good stuff!

Ethan just went down for his nap.

[LadyMischief]

Such bullshit.. personally I think people SHOULD make their kids behave in public. I sure as hell know that if I'm in public and my kids kick up a fuss, I take them away or settle them down. It's common courtesy.. why should other people have to listen to my children screaming yelling or be subjected to them destroying stuff? It's just good sense if you ask me.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by CDSmith

My dad and I have dinner out together every Sunday. He is notorious for not liking the typical "parents who bring bratty kids to restaraunt and let them wail away and run amuck"

Anyway....there we are sitting in this restaurant one Sunday evening, and this single mother with 3 small children (all boys) comes in and gets seated at the table right beside us. I thought to myself (hoo boy, here it comes.... trouble)

I was wrong.

This woman's kids were great, very well-behaved, not too loud or whiney or bratty at all. I even noticed the one older one helping his younger sibling with something, I forget what but it was some small thing.

When my dad and I got up to leave later, I made it a point to pay this woman a compliment about her well-behaved kids. She replied with the old "AH.. heh heh, they aren't always like this, but thanks" kind of thing, but I could see my comment made her swell with pride just the same.

I just believe it's not only good but important to let people know when they're doing a good job, be it at their workplace or be it parenting. Her three boys (at least the older two) heard me clearly as well. Hopefully kids like that will one day remember to also step up and tell their mom (or dad) what a great job they did.

This is pretty much how my kids are, and they know that if they do any different while in public, NEXT time they will get left at home with the nanny and miss out on fun/neat stuff to do. Or they'll earn extra chores (even my 2 year old does chores suitable to her age group, it's all about starting early), they know they'll be punished one way or another. They learn after they sit at home alone with the nanny that next time they ought to mind their p's and q's.

[PornoDoggy]

When did you start calling him nanny?

[Sin]

LMFAO PD Hahahah that was great.

Lady Mischief when I was young if I tried to throw a fit I got removed, immediately... the chances of me getting said object that I was throwing fit over, were completely erased, and I usually got a lecture on the way home about how my parents were unhappy because now they hadn't accomplished what they needed to do that day either (They would literally just leave the store, without finishing their shopping) Didn't take me long at all.

Bless them, probably the best lesson they taught me was honesty... I'm sure that was far more difficult for them but I'm a terrible liar & they had their ways of ALWAYS finding out. I got many talks about how if I simply told the truth from the start, things would go a lot better. That was hard, (probably harder for them to not get overly upset with me) but it worked. They were really good that way If I told them that I had broken something, or gotten in trouble at school, or whatever it was, before they found out from someone else, things DID go a lot better. Instead of getting grounded or punished or having priviledges removed, I got a moderate length talk (one that had me do the thinking) on how I might have otherwise handled the situation (for example if I got in fights at school ...which I did)

I'm sure there's others out there who would despise my parents for teaching me that valuable lesson lol I know there's quite a few people who really are rather unappreciative of my level of honesty.. It took me considerably longer to develop tact.

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by PornoDoggy

When did you start calling him nanny?

Hahhaha when I started calling you gramps? :P

[LadyMischief]

Originally Posted by Sin

LMFAO PD Hahahah that was great.

Lady Mischief when I was young if I tried to throw a fit I got removed, immediately... the chances of me getting said object that I was throwing fit over, were completely erased, and I usually got a lecture on the way home about how my parents were unhappy because now they hadn't accomplished what they needed to do that day either (They would literally just leave the store, without finishing their shopping) Didn't take me long at all.

Bless them, probably the best lesson they taught me was honesty... I'm sure that was far more difficult for them but I'm a terrible liar & they had their ways of ALWAYS finding out. I got many talks about how if I simply told the truth from the start, things would go a lot better. That was hard, (probably harder for them to not get overly upset with me) but it worked. They were really good that way If I told them that I had broken something, or gotten in trouble at school, or whatever it was, before they found out from someone else, things DID go a lot better. Instead of getting grounded or punished or having priviledges removed, I got a moderate length talk (one that had me do the thinking) on how I might have otherwise handled the situation (for example if I got in fights at school ...which I did)

I'm sure there's others out there who would despise my parents for teaching me that valuable lesson lol I know there's quite a few people who really are rather unappreciative of my level of honesty.. It took me considerably longer to develop tact.

That's pretty much the way it is around here... Nothing I can't stand more than a screaming spoiled brat who doesn't get their way... when I was growing up if I would have pulled that stuff I would have gotten a lot more than removed, and although I don't believe in "capital" punishment for children for anyhting but the MOST serious (life-threatening) offenses, I agree with the principle behind it.

[Carrie]

It's not just restaurants. In our cub scout pack there are three kids who are *always* a problem. Two of them are 7yr old twins and the other is a 10yr old seriously overweight spoiled baby (and this kid is HUGE, not just overweight but tall and wide as well, if he'd exercise he'd be a force to reckon with).
They are constantly disrespecting the leader, talking over other people, disobeying, getting up and wandering around... the 10yr old won't do anything he's asked to do without a smartass "how much you gonna pay me?" remark.
I just became a den leader this weekend and this coming thursday is my first turn at handling the twins. The pack leader has suggested kicking them out if they don't straighten up, but I see it differently... these two are the ones who *need* the structure the most. They just need a firmer hand (which he doesn't have, he's too busy trying to be buddy-buddy with them).

The issue isn't the kids, it *is* the parents - and all of the adults in their lives. School teachers, bus drivers... all of 'em. If every adult is abdicating responsibility thinking that someone else is going to do it, then you've got a kid who is just plain wild.
Then again sometimes you have a kid who just does a complete about-face when you go out. They're nice and calm and sweet at home, get them out of the house and they go wild. My 5yr old is like that, so I've developed tactics like putting him in the big part of the cart the instant we enter the store, even if I know he's going to be covered in groceries by the time we leave. It's either that or have him drive me and everyone around us insane running around like a chicken with his head cut off.

I don't see that store's sign as being offensive at all. It's a good, non-confrontational reminder. I *do* take offense at one movie theatre here that has a sign saying "no kids 7 or under after 6pm for PG-13 or higher movies". 9pm, I could see... even 8pm. But 6? Most folks don't get off work until 5, get home just before 6... and to top it off, this theatre doesn't offer movies between 3:30pm and 6pm, so it's really no kids after 3:30pm.
There's a kid-friendly way to do it (like the store in the article) and a non-kid-friendly way to do it (move theatre)... but every privately owned business has the right to make whatever policy they want to. The public can vote with their wallets if they don't like it... getting into a mob and demanding that something be done by "someone" is just ridiculous.

Sin... when you're dealing with the kid nearly 24hrs a day and you're constantly getting the attitude/behavior it really is hard to not just start off at the uppermost level of being pissed off and tired of it, like the parents you mention. Are there other things they can do? Sure... but usually they need a break to calm down and think of those things; and having the kid non-stop means no breaks and no time to think about it objectively.

What gets me just as bad as the kid being out of control is the parents who act like the sky is falling because the kid is just acting like a normal, energetic kid. I see this all the time at the store. The kid is standing next to 10 feet of shelves of candy... of course they're going to get excited and want to touch it. These kids aren't going crazy or throwing a tantrum or screaming their heads off, they're just looking at the candy. Yet the parents are barking "I TOLD you to take your damn hands off of it! Touch it again and I'll knock your head off!" etc etc.
We had one woman who was so bad that I had to have another employee watch the register while I went and cooled off. This girl, probably about 11yrs old, was just browsing the movies. She never got more than 5 feet away from her mom and was always in sight. Yet her mother was literally yelling at her at least once every two minutes and threatening her because the girl wasn't standing RIGHT NEXT TO HER. She threatened to "hit" her, to "smack your face off", and worse until she finally threatened to "kill" the girl. The girl wasn't wandering off, either... she'd go stand next to her mother and start reading the back of a movie case and her mother would move away without saying anything. The girl would still be there reading the case and the mother would lash out at her because the girl wasn't glued to her hip.
By the time they left I was actually wishing she'd smack the girl so I could take the girl in the back and call the police, and it was all I could do to keep from going out to the bitch and saying "how about threatening ME, you fucking cunt?". I felt so sorry for that little girl.

Argh. Long enough rant.

[Red]

There is no excuse for parents not teaching their kids to behave in public.
My parents were always able to take my brother and I everywhere when we were little and I never had a problem with my step daughters. Even the older one (Satan's child) was extremely polite and beautifully behaved. (and she used that to her advantage to keep people from knowing that she was possessed with evil.)

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Red

There is no excuse for parents not teaching their kids to behave in public.
My parents were always able to take my brother and I everywhere when we were little and I never had a problem with my step daughters. Even the older one (Satan's child) was extremely polite and beautifully behaved. (and she used that to her advantage to keep people from knowing that she was possessed with evil.)

ahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

and I couldn't agree more with you

""There is no excuse for parents not teaching their kids to behave in public. ""

I take my kids everywhere with me. Top restaurants etc etc. They are always more than welcome and behave amazingly well ( if I say so myself). They are 12 11 and 7..OK , so the little one can get bored shitless after a little while (18mths old)...so as soon as he does start get a tad cunty..we exit...stage right...rapidly lol

[MorganGrayson]

Originally Posted by Nickatilynx

ahahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha

and I couldn't agree more with you

""There is no excuse for parents not teaching their kids to behave in public. ""

I take my kids everywhere with me. Top restaurants etc etc. They are always more than welcome and behave amazingly well ( if I say so myself). They are 12 11 and 7..OK , so the little one can get bored shitless after a little while (18mths old)...so as soon as he does start get a tad cunty..we exit...stage right...rapidly lol

Since this was one of my absolute favorite dinners ever, I can validate what Nick just said. Absolutely *lovely* restaurant, and his kids were much younger at the time. Not just perfect table manners, but dandly little conversationalists as well. (I adore that part!)
Made a certain other individual all that much harder to cope with.

My husband and I used to love taking our girls out to dinner with us. I remember once somebody said "oh, you couldn't get a sitter?" We attempted to convey a new concept: we actually *enjoyed* the company of our children and took them out to dinner on purpose. I suppose saying "look, if you don't LIKE your little monster, what the hell did you have him for?" wasn't the nicest thing I could have said.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by LadyMischief

I don't believe in "capital" punishment for children for anyhting but the MOST serious (life-threatening) offenses, I agree with the principle behind it.

Are you from Texas?

LOL

Yeah kids should only be executed for the really serious offences

[TheEnforcer]

Originally Posted by MorganGrayson

I suppose saying "look, if you don't LIKE your little monster, what the hell did you have him for?" wasn't the nicest thing I could have said.

Ahgahahahahahaha... i could just imagine the look on the faces of those people. :>))

[Nickatilynx]

Originally Posted by Carrie

By the time they left I was actually wishing she'd smack the girl so I could take the girl in the back and call the police, and it was all I could do to keep from going out to the bitch and saying "how about threatening ME, you fucking cunt?". I felt so sorry for that little girl.

Argh. Long enough rant.

but you didn't....