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Old 12-05-2004   #1
Mike AI
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[Horatio] Alger was one of the most popular American writers of the late 1800s. Alger's stories featured characters from impoverished backgrounds who, through pluck and determination and hard work, were able to make huge successes of themselves in this land of boundless opportunity. The message was that anyone can make it in America, and make it big.
We're addicted to this happy rags-to-riches myth in this country. People elsewhere in other industrialized democracies are content to make a good enough living to pay their bills and raise their families. Few have a cutthroat desire to strike it rich. If they have a job that lets them go home after seven or eight hours of work and then gives them the standard four to eight weeks of paid vacation every year, they're relatively happy. And with their governments providing health care, good free schools, and a guaranteed pension to live well in old age, they're even happier...

They live in reality, where there are only going to be a few rich people, and you are not going to be one of them. So get used to it...

Listen, friends, you have to face the truth. You are never going to be rich. The chance of that happening is about one in a million. Not only are you never going to be rich, but you are going to have to live the rest of your life busting your butt just to pay the cable bill and the music and arts classes for your kid at the public school where they used to be free.
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Old 12-05-2004   #2
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This was an excerpt of Michael Moore's 2003 book, Dude, Where's My Country, "Horatio Alger Must Die."
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Old 12-05-2004   #3
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 5 2004, 03:54 PM
Quote:


[Horatio] Alger was one of the most popular American writers of the late 1800s. Alger's stories featured characters from impoverished backgrounds who, through pluck and determination and hard work, were able to make huge successes of themselves in this land of boundless opportunity. The message was that anyone can make it in America, and make it big.
We're addicted to this happy rags-to-riches myth in this country. People elsewhere in other industrialized democracies are content to make a good enough living to pay their bills and raise their families. Few have a cutthroat desire to strike it rich. If they have a job that lets them go home after seven or eight hours of work and then gives them the standard four to eight weeks of paid vacation every year, they're relatively happy. And with their governments providing health care, good free schools, and a guaranteed pension to live well in old age, they're even happier...

They live in reality, where there are only going to be a few rich people, and you are not going to be one of them. So get used to it...

Listen, friends, you have to face the truth. You are never going to be rich. The chance of that happening is about one in a million. Not only are you never going to be rich, but you are going to have to live the rest of your life busting your butt just to pay the cable bill and the music and arts classes for your kid at the public school where they used to be free.
What a pile of bullshit!!!!


A high proportion of wealthy people this side of the pond have come from the lowliest background to achieve great success and wealth.

I really think Moore is a wanker.
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Old 12-05-2004   #4
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Nick I agree with you. No other nation offers economic mobility like the US.

I think of just the people I know from this board.... not to mention great wealth that people like Michael Dell, Bill Gates, Mark Cuban, and others have created for themselves as well as investors.
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Old 12-05-2004   #5
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I knew it had to be a liberal, and was pretty sure that it was Michael Moore, before I even opened this fucking thread.

Thanks for sharing, Raw Mike ...
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Old 12-05-2004   #6
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I knew it had to be a liberal, and was pretty sure that it was Michael Moore, before I even opened this fucking thread.

Thanks for sharing, Raw Mike ...
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have it ever occured to you that you are as inflexable as Alex?
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Old 12-05-2004   #7
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raise your hand if you read that moore quote in context, i.e. you read the book, what came before it, after it, and the point he was trying to make. then and only then can you make a reasonable argument for or against it.

context, people. without context any comment is open for interpretation.
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Old 12-06-2004   #8
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Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Dec 5 2004, 09:41 PM-->
QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Dec 5 2004, 09:41 PM)
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Old 12-06-2004   #9
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy+Dec 6 2004, 12:55 AM-->
QUOTE (PornoDoggy @ Dec 6 2004, 12:55 AM)
Old 12-06-2004   #10
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that guy sounds like he is quoting Lenin or Marx. too bad. Thats a consistent and weird paradox of extreme liberalism... subscribing to a set of views that are supposedly FOR the people that simultaneously places no confidence in the people. It only works when you finally capitulate, are finally defeated and finally accept that you are nothing without the machine of the state to run your life for you.

its a set of beliefs whos foundation rests on the notion that rich people have subverted the goverment and are exploiting the people. ironically, once poor people take control of the government, they only then know the meaning of true suffering, exploitation and get the final taste of how bad things can really be.
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Old 12-06-2004   #11
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PD I just posted a Quote, and attributed it to the owner of it.

Nothing more, nothing less. Then I made a statement about economic mobility in the US being the greatest in the world.

And this bugs you enough to compare me to Raw Alex.

Interesting.
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Old 12-06-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Dec 6 2004, 08:01 AM-->
QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Dec 6 2004, 08:01 AM)
Quote:
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@Dec 6 2004, 12:55 AM
Quote:
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Dec 5 2004, 09:41 PM
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Old 12-06-2004   #13
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 6 2004, 06:21 AM
PD I just posted a Quote, and attributed it to the owner of it.

Nothing more, nothing less. Then I made a statement about economic mobility in the US being the greatest in the world.

And this bugs you enough to compare me to Raw Alex.

Interesting.
the negative effect of taking something out of context. when you remove the authors context in showing his opinion in relation to an argument, we run the risk of substituting our own context, based on our own opinions.


you are right, you simply laid the bait out there, and look how it got interpretations from all kinds.

Say what you want about Michael Moore, but he can definitely get a stratified reaction on this board
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Old 12-06-2004   #14
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Its a mistake we (humans) make all the time. If someone discusses subject (A) to the least bit.... then we apply opinion B (ours) to fill in the blanks. Then we go a step further and use absolute language, labels and such to sunscribe a stranger to an entire set of values. a huge fallacy of thinking, which extends to such high levels, that even the most powerful people in the land have to walk a tightrope of expressed context, lest they be pigeonholed by the audience.
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Old 12-06-2004   #15
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Originally posted by grimm+Dec 6 2004, 11:02 AM-->
QUOTE (grimm @ Dec 6 2004, 11:02 AM)
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Old 12-06-2004   #16
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 6 2004, 06:21 AM
PD I just posted a Quote, and attributed it to the owner of it.

Nothing more, nothing less. Then I made a statement about economic mobility in the US being the greatest in the world.

And this bugs you enough to compare me to Raw Alex.

Interesting.
I agree with MikeAI and PD.
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Old 12-06-2004   #17
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For the record, I like PD a lot - I think he is a good guy.

Being afflicted with liberalness is no longer as debilitating as it used to be. There is hope for a cure.

I have been working on Grimm for years. We made some progress, but I think he may be in regression. I think he needs some serious one on one therapy at Ricks over the next 30 days!
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Old 12-06-2004   #18
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« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Originally posted by rhymer+Dec 6 2004, 09:00 AM-->
QUOTE (rhymer @ Dec 6 2004, 09:00 AM)
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Old 12-07-2004   #19
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Originally posted by Mike AI@Dec 6 2004, 10:38 AM
For the record, I like PD a lot - I think he is a good guy.

Being afflicted with liberalness is no longer as debilitating as it used to be. There is hope for a cure.

I have been working on Grimm for years. We made some progress, but I think he may be in regression. I think he needs some serious one on one therapy at Ricks over the next 30 days!
ahhahahaha


Sorry Mike, i refused to be labeled, pigeonholed, prescribed a set of values, or told what to believe. Im a free thinker. I fall on whatever side of whatever issue makes the most sense to me. So theres only one thing to do about that. Find me some conservative asian strippers, and let themlabel, pigeonholeand tell me what to believe. at least temporarily i could be made to blindly follow something
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Old 12-07-2004   #20
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Originally posted by grimm@Dec 6 2004, 08:02 AM


you are right, you simply laid the bait out there, and look how it got interpretations from all kinds.

Say what you want about Michael Moore, but he can definitely get a stratified reaction on this board
Mike, you missed the operative point, the first four words
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