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In other news, more than 24,000 people in the US certainly died because they couldn't afford to see a doctor.
DISCUSS.
Alex
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These problems exist in the Canadian health care system.
I can understand why people with a certain mindset would immediately leap to the conclusion that they are because of socialized medicine.
Pull the string, the dolly talks.
Personally, I think the fact that the American health care system doesn't threaten patient health nearly as much is an arguement against so-called tort reform.
Take away the threat of massive damages as a result of lawsuits, and I have no doubt that the medical-industrial complex will cut corners and get us competitive in this area with our Canadian neighbors in no time flat.
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I have friends I went to school with in the medical field.
Thankfully I haven't had to use our fine medical system for a while... but when an emergency happens, I know I will get in SOMEWHERE.
Alex
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Originally posted by RawAlex@May 22 2004, 09:50 PM In other news, more than 24,000 people in the US certainly died because they couldn't afford to see a doctor.
DISCUSS.
Alex
If they cant even afford to go to the doctor, they obviously aren't contributing much to society.
Originally posted by Joe Sixpack@May 22 2004, 10:22 PM Besides, I think America has much to learn from the health care systems of other countries: http://www.chiff.com/a/HLFH703cost.htm
There you go thinking again
The costs stated in that article, do they take into account what is taken from residents of countries in taxes which are contributed to health care?
Does every country end up with a two tier health care system?
I've never had first hand knowledge with/of socialized medicine but I'm opposed to it,
why should I contribute out of my tax dollars any more than I already do for someone else's medical care?
socialized medicine sounds like taking someone else's problems and making them mine
Now I'll go smoke another cigarette on my way to lung cancer
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here is what I know about Health Care System in USA.
1) low income/no income citizens and (NO CITIZENS) who are eligable for welfare benefits, have FREE medical care.
(single mothers unable to work, males/females who can't work for medical reasons, regardless of their citizenships.
When I just came to USA 25 years ago, I dated a few single mothers who were on welfare and them and their children had FREE medical care
2) Elders, like my father, who are unable to work and don't have Medicare,
are the part of SSI system and have FREE medical care.
3) I was unemployed and living with the girl from Dominican Republic who, when I needed to see the doctor for routine check up showed me the clinic somehow subsidised by state for low income people where doctor's visit costed me...$6.95 compared to $120 to a usual yellow pages doctor
4) Emergency care:
NO HOSPITAL MAY REFUSE YOU EMERGENCY CARE due to your lack of ability to pay,
THIS IS A FEDERAL LAW.
I would safely deduce that OVERWHELMING majority of americans and legal residents have no problems obtaining reasonably priced medical care.
and to sum it all I'll use O-ren's quote:
"Now if any of you sonsabitches got anything else to say, now's the fuckin time.
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@May 23 2004, 02:53 AM I would safely deduce that OVERWHELMING majority of americans and legal residents have no problems obtaining reasonably priced medical care.
Johnson: Yes, I think that's a fair statement. Certainly for some people it's a critical condition. The uninsured in our country, we know that they have a 15 to 18 percent mortality rate increase compared to those that are insured. We know that 18,000 of the uninsured die each year in this country for lack of insurance.
I know, I know, what I am about to say is more expected from Labret's mouth than mine,
but...I'll say it anyway.
Let's go back and study the mother Nature.
Mother Nature ALWAYS trys to regulate the world's population in the interests of...Mother Nature.
Bubonic Plague was taking millions to reduce world populaon,
plague was conqured, to be raplaced by tubercoulesis, viral infections taking millions in mass epedemics.
When this was conquered, the AIDS/cancer/heart desisses came to replace an old "Mother Nature's" self controling world population mechanism.
As far as Mother Nature is concerned:
I, my wife, you Peaches, PD, and everubody else who procreated, raised new generation of procreators, are absolutelly useless and serve no purpose,
thus getting rid of us is quite high on Mother Nature's priority list.
Like it or not, but this is Nature's way to get rid of it's unproductive elements.
Socirty works in a very much similar fashion,
and when society TRYS to implement the laws or develops against the mother Nature,
Mother Nature backfires with the vengence.
What if this higher mortality rate is the way of the society to FOLLOW the laws of the Mother Nature and get rid of it's outmost unproductive part?
Self Regulated genetic cleansing?
Originally posted by Meni@May 23 2004, 09:55 AM I like paying 40% more than CAnucks for the SAME MEDICINE
thank you BIG MED CORPS who have Congress in their pockets
Actually, in some cases it's NOT the same medicine In addition, there are many generics in the US that aren't available in Canada and conversely, many generics available in Canada that aren't in the US.
And surely you've read a newspaper in the past 18 months - you're free to buy it in Canada. Ergo, if you're paying 40% for the same medicine, you're CHOOSING to do it, you're not being FORCED to do it. Back we go to "personal responsibility"
Quote:
how come everytime I see a post from one of the southerner's I hear fiddles?
I long ago stopped trying to figure out what makes you "hear" things.
Originally posted by Meni@May 23 2004, 08:55 AM I like paying 40% more than CAnucks for the SAME MEDICINE
thank you BIG MED CORPS who have Congress in their pockets
Meni,
do you also wanna pay CAnucks tax rates?
Talk to Nick, what would he rathe rhad,
our pills costs or his tax rate?
;-)))
Serge, 85% is a pretty good score on a final exam in university, but it isn't very good when it comes to health. Imagine, if you will, that 15% of days you woke up and couldn't move. You had to spend the entire day trapped in one place. That 15% would really suck. Imagine that 15% of your bowel movements got stuck for a week. Now that would be fun, wouldn't it?
Also, that 85% is americans with "some coverage". The number with decent full coverage is much lower.
Hellpuppy: When a family of 4 is paying out $12-$20k per year for coverage WITH a big deductible, PLUS drugs, PLUS no coverage for catastrophic long term care, you being to wonder.
The cost of heath insurance for a family of 4 in many states is much higher than the "official" poverty line. Does that mean that poorer people don't deserve to live?
Social medicine is average medicine. Average is way better than NONE.
Alex
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Originally posted by RawAlex@May 23 2004, 10:10 AM Hellpuppy: When a family of 4 is paying out $12-$20k per year for coverage WITH a big deductible, PLUS drugs, PLUS no coverage for catastrophic long term care, you being to wonder.
I call bullshit. Unless there are preexisting conditions, there is NO WAY a family in the US is paying $12-20K a year AND has a large deductible AND is paying for prescriptions. If they are paying that much they have a low deductible policy with doctor and prescription co-pays.
I'm 42 years old and the insurance companies still consider me "child bearing" which means I have some of the most expensive rates out there. I pay $282 for a $500 deductible, $20 office visits, $25 prescriptions with a $2mil payout. I can go to any doctor or pharmacy I want. I don't have to get any referrals to go any doctors or hospitals. I can call tomorrow and get a plain basic check up within 48 hours and if I have a problem, I can see a doctor tomorrow - today if I want to go to the hospital.
I can get a catastrophic plan for less than $100 a month. I can get a family catastrophic plan for less than $300 a month. Find me a family that can't afford $300 a month and I'll show you a family that qualifies for free/reduced free care or has full cable TV, new cars and eats out 4 times a week.
There must be a reason that the US is the #1 destination in the world for people who are sick and need the best treatment in the world.
Our system has some flaws, and they are getting worse, but gov't intervetion and socializing medicine is not the solution.
I have never met anyone who has been denied medical service in the US, even those who are uninsured.
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Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@May 23 2004, 09:31 AM Let's all give it to Goebbels who was one of the first to notice that the more unbelivable the lie is-
the more people beleive it
;-))
at least people like Alex
;-)))
Interesting that you should mention Gobbels ... he and his cronies created a short-term society with much more efficient ways to "get rid of it's outmost unproductive part."
The first big lie I saw in this thread is the idea that the article "proves" anything about Canada's health care system, and it seems that as many people are buying that lie as are buying anything that Alex (or I) are spreading. I repeat what I said before - the article supports the idea that the threat of litigation improves the quality of health care in the U.S. every bit as much as it supports the idea that it is systemic to a socialized health care system.
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Originally posted by PornoDoggy@May 23 2004, 11:29 AM I repeat what I said before - the article supports the idea that the threat of litigation improves the quality of health care in the U.S. every bit as much as it supports the idea that it is systemic to a socialized health care system.
Are you suggesting malpractice lawsuits don't exist in Canada and they have no threat of litigation??
Originally posted by PornoDoggy@May 23 2004, 11:29 AM The first big lie I saw in this thread is the idea that the article "proves" anything about Canada's health care system, and it seems that as many people are buying that lie as are buying anything that Alex (or I) are spreading.
What "lie" are you referring to? I posted a link to an article from Canada about their healthcare system. Are you suggesting Canada is lying about their own healthcare system? I'm confused.
Originally posted by Peaches@May 23 2004, 11:45 PM Had you read the article you would have seen that Australia was one of the countries with WORST statistics of medical errors than Canada.
Unfortunately that may well be true.. and it was one of the things that came to mind as an Australian reading that article..
There has been a lot of press on our "hospital crisis" for years now.
I still like the idea of public funded health care... most people need hospitals the most when they have children and when they are old... this is also the time in life many people can afford it least. These two groups of people are the ones public health is really meant to help most imho... and I for one think they are 2 of the most important groups in a society worth caring for.
It does appear there might be an issue with public health systems resulting in a poorer overall care... but problems may also may show up more in public systems as everyone gets medical treatment for everything that goes wrong.. rather than putting off treatment for simple things on financial grounds... just a maybe on that idea though.
Originally posted by Peaches@May 23 2004, 05:45 AM Had you read the article you would have seen that Australia was one of the countries with WORST statistics of medical errors than Canada.
From an unnamed 1992 study. Some up to date statistics would be nice.
Like I said, the system is very popular here in Australia. Why? Because it works.
Nobody in this country will ever be stuck with a $100,000 hospital bill.
Last edited by Joe Sixpack at May 23 2004, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by Peaches@May 23 2004, 09:22 AM
I call bullshit. Unless there are preexisting conditions, there is NO WAY a family in the US is paying $12-20K a year AND has a large deductible AND is paying for prescriptions. I'm 42 years old and the insurance companies still consider me "child bearing" which means I have some of the most expensive rates out there. I pay $282 for a $500 deductible, $20 office visits, $25 prescriptions with a $2mil payout.
Peaches, certain states have issues regarding doctors, malpractice, and other problems that have lead to huge medical expenses and as a result, high insurance rates. The state of Nevada is one of those states.
Just for fun, ask your insurance company how much you would pay if you moved to Vegas.
Your 282 a month, that is for one person, right? How much for a family?
Alex
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funny we pay an "extra" fee to increase the coverage on our Canadian office workers... b/c they said the basic coverage is crap?
We have Parkland hospital here in Dallas.. where they deliver like 75 kids a day or some crazy number.. all whom are born on the State tax dollar...
funny how people can afford to buy beer, cigarettes, and fuzzy dice.. but they can't afford insurance?... or better yet.. the special edition $200/pr Nike shoes and a $100 fubu jersey...
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Originally posted by RawAlex@May 23 2004, 05:31 PM Your 282 a month, that is for one person, right? How much for a family?
Alex
Read my next post - I said exactly how much it was for a family BTW, ditto with BCBS of GA that same family can get a $3500 deductible policy for less than $250 a month.
OK, I did the same quote search in NV with the same parameters. $760 a month was the most expensive with $15 office visits and NO deductibles, no lifetime max.
For $228 a month, $2000 deductible, $30 office visits. $5mil lifetime maximums with prescriptions $10 for generic, $25 for name brand.
Seriously, when someone in the US tells me they CAN'T afford health insurance, looking at the facts will almost always show they WON'T afford health insurance.
As with anything, there are exceptions to the rule. If you let your insurance lapse and you have a pre-existing condition you could easily find yourself uninsurable but most states have plans for the high risk pool they offer to cover this group. Many times they don't cover for a pre-existing condition or there is a delay. When I first got an individual policy, the least expensive companies wouldn't ever cover my migraines. BCBS had a 12 month waiting period (for coverage on the migraines only) so even though it was a little more, it was worth it for me to get it and they've been covering my migraine stuff ever since.
Originally posted by gregtx@May 23 2004, 06:59 PM funny we pay an "extra" fee to increase the coverage on our Canadian office workers... b/c they said the basic coverage is crap?
We have Parkland hospital here in Dallas.. where they deliver like 75 kids a day or some crazy number.. all whom are born on the State tax dollar...
funny how people can afford to buy beer, cigarettes, and fuzzy dice.. but they can't afford insurance?... or better yet.. the special edition $200/pr Nike shoes and a $100 fubu jersey...
Originally posted by Peaches@May 22 2004, 06:18 PM Discuss
"WASHINGTON—A new report shows that the nation’s health care system is riddled with "quality gaps" that prevent millions of Americans from receiving "best practice" care. These gaps, the result of factors such as poor use of technology and irrational payment systems, lead to more than 57,000 avoidable deaths each year."
05-22-2004
In addition, there are many generics in the US that aren't available in Canada and conversely, many generics available in Canada that aren't in the US. 
Hybrid Mode
