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Old 02-20-2004   #1
Max Sweet
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Steve is sick and tired of all these posts from people who don't know ANYTHING
about this case talking out their ass. What this industry needs is a cohesive
group to fight the forces that want to put us ALL out of business. Steve is taking his stand
for what he believes in and we would appreciate support from adult webmasters and specifically the BDSM community.
Special thanks to Good Chris, Evil Chris and Raw Alex for their support.

So Mike - I've been authorized by Steve to post a proposal for a private wager.

Since you're so sure he will be convicted in his trial he's offering to personally bet you $11,000.

That's right. $11k.

That's $1000 per count. There are currently 11 counts against him and for every count he is found guilty he will pay you $1000.
For every count he's found not guilty you will pay $1000 towards our already extensive legal bills.

What do you say Mike? Ready to put your money where your mouth is?

In Steve's own words: "Tell that loudmouth punk to put up or shut up!"
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Old 02-20-2004   #2
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Quote:
Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 03:42 PM
Steve is sick and tired of all these posts from people who don't know ANYTHING
about this case talking out their ass. What this industry needs is a cohesive
group to fight the forces that want to put us ALL out of business. Steve is taking his stand
for what he believes in and we would appreciate support from adult webmasters and specifically the BDSM community.
Special thanks to Good Chris, Evil Chris and Raw Alex for their support.

So Mike - I've been authorized by Steve to post a proposal for a private wager.

Since you're so sure he will be convicted in his trial he's offering to personally bet you $11,000.

That's right. $11k.

That's $1000 per count. There are currently 11 counts against him and for every count he is found guilty he will pay you $1000.
For every count he's found not guilty you will pay $1000 towards our already extensive legal bills.

What do you say Mike? Ready to put your money where your mouth is?

In Steve's own words: "Tell that loudmouth punk to put up or shut up!"

First, there is no coheisve industry. This is an industry where people fuck each other day in and day out. If someone can make an extra dime by shaving a little more they do it. If someone can make a little more by doing shady cross sales, cramming of credit cards they will. If they can make a little more money by pushing the boundaries of porn, then will.

Is Steve looking out for me? Is Steve helping out those being sued by Acacia?

As far as the bet, no way I am going to make it. I do not know the Canadian legal system, nor do I know the prosecutors. Many times cases come down to who has the better attorneys ( Do you think OJ is really innocent?). So I am not going to put my money on some prosecutor that works for the Candian gov't!

Steve should be focusing on his legal battles, not worrying making bets with "loud mouth punks" and the false fantasty of industry cohesivness.
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Old 02-20-2004   #3
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I have seen some of Steve's content. I am not sure whether he should be convicted or not, but his stuff is WAY over the line.
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so.... HUH?
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Old 02-20-2004   #4
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What this industry needs is a cohesive
group to fight the forces that want to put us ALL out of business.
************************************************** ******

I don't know about ALL,
but I can live with 90% of _all_ to be out of this business
;-))))

I also volunteer my services to hold $11,000 in escrow acount in any currency of your choice!

(no conversion fees, I swear!)
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Old 02-20-2004   #5
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can you play the clip where the model is choking on his cum and she pulls her head away and he gets pissed off and starts yelling at her "for ruining my cum shot" before we make a decision?
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Old 02-20-2004   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by fatbaby@Feb 20 2004, 04:22 PM
Quote:
I have seen some of Steve's content. I am not sure whether he should be convicted or not, but his stuff is WAY over the line.
MikeAI


so.... HUH?

I stand by this statement.

I do not know Canadian obscenity law, but some of the content Steve has produced I personally find in poor taste, and think that it helps bring the wrong kind of attention to this industry.

If the Sweets want to talk about cohesiveness, we should be asking them why they are making our cohesive group look so bad, and being put under a microscope from ashcroft, and other anti-porn people by producing content with girls being urinated on, and other things like this.

The Sweets have pushed the limits for their OWN personal benefits - $$$. ( which is a great thing, that is what industry is about) But don't expect the rest of us to cheer and support them!
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Old 02-20-2004   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 03:42 PM
What this industry needs is a cohesive group to fight the forces that want to put us ALL out of business.

Steve is taking his stand for what he believes in and we would appreciate support from adult webmasters and specifically the BDSM community.
No - this industry does not need a cohesive group to "fight the forces that want to put us ALL out of business"

- I prefer my own company and don't want to or care to be included with some in the industry

and no thanks, I don't care to support anyone but myself or anyone's cause but my own

I don't wish any harm or ill will to the Sweet's but their fight is just that, their fight - not mine and please don't candy coat anything or suggest any support should be offered
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Old 02-20-2004   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 04:42 PM
So Mike - I've been authorized by Steve to post a proposal for a private wager.

Since you're so sure he will be convicted in his trial
Max, could you or Steve show me where Michael said this? I haven't seen it.
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Old 02-20-2004   #9
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As far as the bet, no way I am going to make it. I do not know the Canadian legal system, nor do I know the prosecutors.
Hmmm.. point proven. No one knows any details of the case so judging before hand is presumptuous.

As for a cohesive community, we never really expected support but that's when the fight gets more interesting.
All anyone REALLY has is their own talents and wits to get by and that's all we've ever really counted on.
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Old 02-20-2004   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by JR@Feb 20 2004, 04:33 PM
can you play the clip where the model is choking on his cum and she pulls her head away and he gets pissed off and starts yelling at her "for ruining my cum shot" before we make a decision?
neither Martha Stewart, nor Steve were aware of what was going on, your Honor!

All those fabrications are manufactured by those antisemites who beleive that Holocost never existed!
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Old 02-20-2004   #11
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all this innocence from someone advertising Max Hardcore in his sig.
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Old 02-20-2004   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 04:46 PM
Quote:
As far as the bet, no way I am going to make it. I do not know the Canadian legal system, nor do I know the prosecutors.
Hmmm.. point proven. No one knows any details of the case so judging before hand is presumptuous.

As for a cohesive community, we never really expected support but that's when the fight gets more interesting.
All anyone REALLY has is their own talents and wits to get by and that's all we've ever really counted on.

Can Steve send over one of the smarter "Sweets"? I fear I am wasting valueable key stroke on a moron.
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Old 02-20-2004   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 12:42 PM
Steve is taking his stand for what he believes in and we would appreciate support from adult webmasters and specifically the BDSM community.
also, he is not "taking a stand"... he is being "put on the stand" for breaking the law. there is a big difference. he is not choosing to fight... he is being forced to defend himself.
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Old 02-20-2004   #14
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Mike I don't even know you and you don't know me. I posted a legitimate offer for a wager from Steve, that's all. How does this make me a moron?

JR - The area of BDSM has always been grey in Canadian law. We felt that this lifestyle has come a long way in the last 2 decades and that it was time for the law to start reflecting these changes. True that they came after us but we are going to use the opportunity to change things hopefully for the better...
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Old 02-20-2004   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by JR+Feb 20 2004, 04:59 PM-->
QUOTE (JR @ Feb 20 2004, 04:59 PM)
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Old 02-20-2004   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by JR+Feb 20 2004, 04:59 PM-->
QUOTE (JR @ Feb 20 2004, 04:59 PM)
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Old 02-20-2004   #17
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Old 02-20-2004   #18
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Maybe he wants to become a Martyr....

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Old 02-20-2004   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Feb 20 2004, 05:13 PM-->
QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Feb 20 2004, 05:13 PM)
Quote:
Originally posted by -Mike AI@Feb 20 2004, 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally posted by -JR@Feb 20 2004, 04:59 PM
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Old 02-20-2004   #20
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Originally posted by DrGuile@Feb 20 2004, 06:18 PM
Maybe he wants to become a Martyr....
Being a martyr would fall under the BDSM lifestyle, no?
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Old 02-20-2004   #21
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Not sure what this has to do with me? or why I should be cheering Steve on. I do not remember getting any benefits from Steve....
Truthfully Mike you're just the fall guy that's all. We thought we'd try and spice things up around here as every one likes a good bet!
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Old 02-20-2004   #22
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Originally posted by Peaches+Feb 20 2004, 02:20 PM-->
QUOTE (Peaches @ Feb 20 2004, 02:20 PM)
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Old 02-20-2004   #23
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Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 05:20 PM
Quote:
Not sure what this has to do with me? or why I should be cheering Steve on. I do not remember getting any benefits from Steve....
Truthfully Mike you're just the fall guy that's all. We thought we'd try and spice things up around here as every one likes a good bet!
Max I only bet when I know the outcome....
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Old 02-20-2004   #24
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ok, you wanna spice?
I give you spice,
I'll take the bet .

send MikeAI $11,000 to hold in escrow acount and I'll do the same
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Old 02-20-2004   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by Serge_Oprano@Feb 20 2004, 05:41 PM
ok, you wanna spice?
I give you spice,
I'll take the bet .

send MikeAI $11,000 to hold in escrow acount and I'll do the same


Now I know what the outcome will be....................
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Old 02-20-2004   #26
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so.....do you need his wiring instructions?
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Old 02-20-2004   #27
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MikeAI is getting called out?

What was he IN? The closet? The duldrums?
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Old 02-20-2004   #28
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Awesome! Now we're talking.

Our lawyer will need to get involved in drawing up an agreement
but Steve has no problems with putting up the money into an escrow account.

Email me the details here: max AT sweetentertainment dot com

I don't know if you have his contact info but I can include that in an email reply.

Let's get it on!
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Old 02-20-2004   #29
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A lawyer needed for a bet ???

Man, this industry has changed......
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Old 02-20-2004   #30
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Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 06:47 PM
Awesome! Now we're talking.

Our lawyer will need to get involved in drawing up an agreement
but Steve has no problems with putting up the money into an escrow account.

Email me the details here: max AT sweetentertainment dot com

I don't know if you have his contact info but I can include that in an email reply.

Let's get it on!
wanna really make it exciting and MIND BOGGLING???

With LOTS of adrenalin to pass around?

How about we make it $500,000 for Jail time/No jail time?????

if Steve beats the wrap, his victory will be REAL Sweet!
;-))))

whatta you say?????
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Old 02-20-2004   #31
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Old 02-20-2004   #32
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Originally posted by Serge_Oprano+Feb 20 2004, 06:57 PM-->
QUOTE (Serge_Oprano @ Feb 20 2004, 06:57 PM)
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Old 02-20-2004   #33
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I apologize in advance for the lame pun!
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Old 02-20-2004   #34
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Old 02-20-2004   #35
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Woah woah let's just see if you can handle the 11k first Sege.

But just for the record there is no way in HELL there will be
jail time involved. Even if it does happen we've been wanting to
open a gay site anyway and that's one place to get free talent LOL
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Old 02-20-2004   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 02:09 PM

JR - The area of BDSM has always been grey in Canadian law. We felt that this lifestyle has come a long way in the last 2 decades and that it was time for the law to start reflecting these changes. True that they came after us but we are going to use the opportunity to change things hopefully for the better...
i remember when all this happened and i remember reading the charges/accusations in some form. it was a while ago and i don't remember if it was actual documents posted on the boards or articles or what. I do remember taking a big interest in what was going on because its something that could affect everyone.

i also remember doing some research and reaching the opinion that Canadian law was anything but gray as others have already pointed out in this thread and after hearing the stories and seeing the content, i found it fairly easy to accept that the charges possibly had merit. the allegations as i recall were very specific as well. So when you combine very black and white laws, with very specific allegations and charges in what will surely be a high profile case, a prudent thing to do would be to give the prosecution the benefit of the doubt.

i think its a big stretch to suggest that there is a victem here. NO ONE, Canadian or otherwise is suggesting there is an unfair witch hunt going on. NO ONE, Canadian or otherwise is suggesting that the content does not push the limits of the law. At best, everyone is saying "Steve is a nice guy, i wish him the best" which is great. I am sure he is a nice guy with a log of friends and there is no question that he has been around.

but there is no martyr here. even you just said yourself "has always been a grey area of Canadian law" - well... if you believe that to be true, then why push the limits of that "gray area" knowing that you will be making yourself a target? that was a choice. just like standing in front of a train is a choice. that choice we see, now has consequences... just as every choice does.

this situation to me seems to be similar to what happened to Extreme Associates... you push the limits and you bring the wrong kind of attention to your business and to the industry while at the same time making yourself the most obvious target. when those guys ran into legal problems, the entire industry did not rally behind them in a show of support... the rolled their eyes and said "it was just a matter of time and i hope it does not create too much problems for us"... just as people are with this issue.
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Old 02-20-2004   #37
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Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 07:50 PM
Woah woah let's just see if you can handle the 11k first Sege.
LMFAO

translation: fuck off, steve doesn't have 500k to spare on a bet and he's not that confident of winning
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Old 02-20-2004   #38
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Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 07:50 PM
Woah woah let's just see if you can handle the 11k first Sege.

But just for the record there is no way in HELL there will be
jail time involved. Even if it does happen we've been wanting to
open a gay site anyway and that's one place to get free talent LOL
Max,
I dunno about you, but I KNOW Steve and what makes him tick...he LIVES for the shit like that.

My wife, LadyLaw, knows him even better...not carnally, but nevertheless.
Just pass the offer and see what happens.

Sorry I showed no interest in 11k bet,
I don't play for peanuts.

I see, I cum, I conquer...not bad for a sub if you ask me
;-0)))))

I have GREAT confidence that even if Steve loses,
he'll enjoy prison time more than the most of us,
and 2/3rd of the prison be his bitches in a matter of 2 weeks.

so......are we gonna play or whistle Dixie?????
(or should I spell it like dicksie?, English is my 3rd language, you have to bare with me ;-)))))
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Old 02-20-2004   #39
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JR - Good post. It looks like you've put a lot of thought into it. However I don't think the Extreme case is any comparison as the BDSM content we produce is not that much different than half a dozen other sites producing content in the US. What this REALLY boils down to is the local police and what their definitions are. We'll soon see if the court agrees with them or not.
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Old 02-20-2004   #40
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Originally posted by JR+Feb 20 2004, 08:14 PM-->
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Old 02-20-2004   #41
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Quote:
Originally posted by Max Sweet@Feb 20 2004, 05:59 PM
JR - Good post. It looks like you've put a lot of thought into it. However I don't think the Extreme case is any comparison as the BDSM content we produce is not that much different than half a dozen other sites producing content in the US. What this REALLY boils down to is the local police and what their definitions are. We'll soon see if the court agrees with them or not.
Extreme is "similar". they pushed the limits, made themselves a target and it eventually it came back to haunt them. Unless Canadian law is different and legal decisions are made by trial by combat or by jousting in the parking lot, then it ALWAYS about interpretation.... that of the defense and the prosecutors... and their interpetations of law, of events, of actions and so on.

you are now saying its about "interpretations of a gray area of the law" without acknowledging that you pushed the limits of that gray area... made a conscious choice to base a large part of your business on dealing with that gray area.. then you later cry fowl when it all goes wrong.

i wish you guys luck, i really do. i dont have a problem with anything you have done with consenting models. but the law often does. in fact, the law does in a very wide variety of situations. even more often, those people enforcing the law have a big problem with it. In the end, the law is interpreted by people. those people have their own tastes, their own agendas, their own opinions and their own interpretations of what is and is not legal. if you are choosing to live and work in a gray area... then you cannot possibly be surprised at various interpretations... nor of the consequences as a result of different interpretations.

all that matters in the end, are those interpretations of the law by the same people who will be giving the orders to kick your doors in, arrest you, sieze your assets and put you in prison.



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Old 02-20-2004   #42
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Oh, are we starting to look at this clearly now?

Or JR, do you still say.. "play with fire...." ?

Incidentally, I wonder... did you vote in this poll?
What did you vote?
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Old 02-20-2004   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by Evil Chris@Feb 20 2004, 06:31 PM
Oh, are we starting to look at this clearly now?

Or JR, do you still say.. "play with fire...." ?

Incidentally, I wonder... did you vote in this poll?
What did you vote?
clearly? as if there are other facts than "its a gray area" , "we work in that gray area"

i dont know all the details, but i have not seen anything to indicate that the above does not represent the core issue.

how does it get more clear? i dont know everything. i just know what i know. if there are more facts, then they should be posted so people are forming opinions based on the facts of the case rather than what they have seen about content and heard about model complaints or based on the fact. instead, we are hearing that its all unfair from a person talking about being a victem and about "grey areas of the law" who is also promoting a guy who holds a girl down, pisses into her mouth with her trying to resist and begins to choke on his unrin and begins to cry in his sig?



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Old 02-20-2004   #44
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am i the only one that thinks this press release makes little sense

Quote:
The Crown alleges that eleven (11) video vignettes are obscene under Canadian law. The videos consist of one (1) Pee Lovers scene, two (2) Miss Pain scenes, and eight (8) Sado Slaves scenes. With the exception of the Pee Lovers scene, the performances in question all document bondage and discipline/sado-masochistic play.

The Crown alleges that the videos are obscene because they combine explicit sex with cruelty, and violence, which is statutorily prohibited in Canada under s. 163 (8) of the Criminal Code of Canada.
Quote:
Mr. Sweet will be launching a vigorous defense to the charges including leading expert evidence regarding the popularity of BDSM, the safe sane and consensual nature of the acts depicted in the vignettes and the unlikelihood of any substantial risk of harm.
the "other people like it and do it so its ok" defense?

that does not sound like a missunderstanding in interpretations of the law to me.
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Old 02-20-2004   #45
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If you don't know everything, then why all the comments like "he's pushed the boundaries", "play with fire..." etc.. ?

I "clearly" look at the SEG situation at face value, making no judgements about it. Boundary? What boundary? It's not up to me to decide.
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Old 02-20-2004   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Evil Chris@Feb 20 2004, 06:46 PM
If you don't know everything, then why all the comments like "he's pushed the boundaries", "play with fire..." etc.. ?

I "clearly" look at the SEG situation at face value, making no judgements about it. Boundary? What boundary? It's not up to me to decide.
i have read the laws and seen the content and read peoples comments. thats all i have to form an opinion. like most people, i have formed an opinion based on what i know. it does not mean i am right... but again, no one is presenting anything to change my (and apparently anyone else's) opinion either.

why is a remark like "he pushed the boundaries" out of line or not truthful?
I have not seen anyone disagree with that remark.
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Old 02-20-2004   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Evil Chris@Feb 20 2004, 06:46 PM
Boundary? What boundary? It's not up to me to decide.
this is my point. we dont decide. it was already decided. those boundaries exist already in black and white.

it does not seem to be a question about defining them as it does an issue of enforceing them.
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Old 02-20-2004   #48
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This is a poker game, pockets are in hand and the flop hasn't come up yet.
Steve/Max drop $11k on the table.
Serge grins evilly, sees the $11k, and raises half a mil.

Will we get to see the flop???



Last edited by Carrie at Feb 20 2004, 10:51 PM
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Old 02-20-2004   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Carrie@Feb 20 2004, 10:51 PM
This is a poker game, pockets are in hand and the flop hasn't come up yet.
Steve/Max drop $11k on the table.
Serge grins evilly, sees the $11k, and raises half a mil.

Will we get to see the flop???
Carrie you are a poker addict!!

I caught myself making poker references a lore more lately as well...
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Old 02-20-2004   #50
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Gamesmanship by Serge. "$500K" is like asking serges version of a rhetorical question. Steves peeps would be best to not worry about chat boards, and worry about what matters, the courts. This is a game, the charges that Steve faces are serious.
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