Serge,

Yes. I learned my lesson over the past
few days, too. ;-)


Wig
***********************

Wig, there is NOTHING gets moronic trolls more than realisation that they talk to themselves...
as we russians say:
"Dog barks and wind carries it..."
I have no problems with their barkings in the desert
;-))
Serge

spanno,

I figured you were a pussy. But, I
didn't know you had one, too. ;-0
Wig

That being said, you have given me a BRILLIANT idea with your "2 cents" and I am VERY inspired this morning! I have the perfect thing to PRODUCT add to Teaser services that the other design companies are not offering right now. I hope to add this new "product" to my offerings by mid next week. If it proves to be a hit, I'm taking you out for a great meal and best vodka we can find :-)

DaveH Teaser
******************************

DaveH and all designers who believe that price war is the only way to go,
we'll try help you with business rather "my stuff is cheaper than your stuff" approach.

As you probably know already,
Oprano ad rates are one of the highest if not THE HIGHEST rates in the industry. We justify our rates not only by delivering superiour results to worthy sponsors, but...
giving them ad on values like...
do you see Jettis Interactive Frog Flash ad?
those interactive flash ads are FREE to our banner sponsors.

Contact our sponsors, offer them interactive flash presentations, and we'll carry it for free,
win for you, win for sponsors, win for us.

Just another 2 cents...take em or leave 'em.
Serge

come to usa and you'll bitch slap my hole ?

:o)

spanno

spanno,

come to the US and I'll bitch slap you
right back to your hole. ;-))
Wig

Good point Cleo, Has anyone read the unibombers manifesto? I read the whole thing, twice. It was awesome. LIke watching the Matrix on acid or something. Does someone know the link to it?


The Producer

Serge,

Yes. I learned my lesson over the past
few days, too. ;-)


Wig

pretty damn funny.....
http://www.knology.net/~carlos/redneck.htm
dantheman

wig are you serges bitch ?
spanno

I'm sure it sucks having to take the
time to explain things to morons who
just keep coming back for more. ;-)


Wig
*******************

Wig,
I hope you noticed I do it less and less now a days...
and stick to "don't feed the Trolls" modus operandi
;-))
Serge

America has it's own history of occupation. My ancestors took away the land of the native Americans and put them in camps in which many still live. The only real major difference is technology. Technology has made some major advances, but human nature has not advanced at all.

Cleo_LinkUP (Surreal Realities)

I have never been to a board before that made me laugh so frikin much. I am dying over here. Hallie Does Hebron. Is that really the name of the song?


The Producer

but I don't think I'm right.
****************

Don't lie, Colin. ;-)

Wig

Ok, my 'verve' is not all that great, so I will ask my good friends from Propagandhi for help in expressing my opinion on the Palestinian situation...

This you dont want to miss:

http://www.drguile.com/perso/haillie.mp3

(parental advisory, explicit lyrics... bla bla bla... views expressed here are mines and do not represent the view of privatefeeds and its associates... ;)
DrGuile

Yea Serge, that shit is deep

POST Cereal
Meni (The Golden Tongue)

Collin, you forgot cumshot on the face or cumshot on the ass right?




The Producer

What I really mean is, yeah I have an opinion but I don't think I'm right.
Colin

Yea Serge, that shit is deep.

POST 74270


The Producer

Fuck that .. I made a big old fence wide enough for me AND all my friends to sit on.

Most debates are tired and old and enough logic has accumulated on each side that neither can win. If you prefer, neither side has accumulated enough evidence to really be of any use.

God or no God?
Abortion or Not?
Gun or no Guns?

Guns or God?
Colin Guns or Roses? 26 weeks of mayhem.

Serge,

Post Post #: 74270 is a classic.

I'm sure it sucks having to take the
time to explain things to morons who
just keep coming back for more. ;-)


Wig

The jist of the discussion is a lot of Monday Morning quaterbacks calling out plays. Why don't some of you go over there first before you start telling the world what it ought to do. Do you even have any idea about how much of your perception is shaped by CNN alone?

Have you ever seen one of our aircraft carriers parked of the coast somwhere. What an awesome force it is. How that would make a dictator feel. Well until you have, please stop talking out of your ass. Thank-you.


The Producer

Hank,

Good chatting with you. :-))


Wig

why not sponsor some oprano game on like ..
forget it
Meni (The Golden Tongue)

Splintery fencepost too


Hank D Dripping wet dollars

tapdancing on the fence post has it's rdaw back...you slip and you get the whole thing up your ass....
Serge

i don't sit on the fencepost-i tapdance on it.
8-)))
runk Got Gay Traffic?

I just woke up and quickly glanced over the board
but i think I got the jist of the dicussion
but
When did Michael Jordan join the PLO?
Meni (The Golden Tongue)

runk, go ahead, blow yourself, make my day and a point.
Serge

hehehe
thank you serge.
8-)
runk Got Gay Traffic?

Runk,
yeah, palestinians defend themselves,
they killed Israeli Olympics team in Munhen, because Israeli Team stole their medals,
they hijacked El-Al planes to defend themselves from air pollution israeli planes cause,
they blow busses in Israel to defend themselves from exhaust fumes...

where do I join PLO?

I wish I was born in 1948 when arabs moved armies on newly created State Of Israel within days after it's creation,
I'd show those Israelies! how to occupy deserts and turn them in gardens, against God's will!
(if God wanted gardens, he wouldn't create deserts wouldn't it?)

If I was older in 1967,
I'd personally advice Gamal Abdel Nasser of Egypt and we would won the war and throw Israel in Mediterranean Sea.

Russians didn't let me go in 1973 when Syria moved their tanks on the Yom Kippur day when the whole country was celebrating the holiday and didn't expect any wars. If I was in front of syrians in my T-34 russian made, we'd won for sure.

Anyway,
I'm leaving tomorrow with c-4 strapped to my body to train how to be suicide bomber,
we'll show those jews once and for all!
Runk, please join me, I'll let you practise first.
Serge

pintos were selling like hot cakes...even though they were SHIT!
Serge
Fri, 12 Apr - 05:17:19 172.172.145.252 Post #: 74243
------------------------------------------
And nowadays, Focus are selling like hotcakes....
They started making them 3 years ago, and the first batch is already having all kinds of problems...

A little bit of history repeating?
DrGuile

Pornoman !

See you in Vegas in a few hours I hope you are ready for a wild weekend : )


Billy (Oprano Sergeant at Arms) Assholes having fun !

Both sides just should be given much more powerful bombs, get it over with faster.

Cleo (clinically insane)

Last time we went out I got a traffic ticket. This time I get a flat tire. I think G_d is trying to tell me something. What is it?

Serge, you are a moron if you think the little rag heads want peace. I lived there, An arab can live with the jews, but the jews cannot live with them. TACTICAL NUKES. That will solve the problem for a little while. You know what they say over there? The Israeli fights the war with the gun. The Arab fights the war with the dick. They make so many babies, you cna't just keep killing all of them... Tactical Nukes or Birth Control...


The Producer My Ex is Possessed

The media and government of the United States has historically backed the Israelis while they bulldoze homes and shoot innocent Palestinians yet when they fight back they are called "terrorists". In 1982, current Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon was Defence Minister and gave the green light to Lebanese Christian Militia to enter the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila in west Beirut, which consequently resulted in the massacre, torture and rape of hundreds of unarmed civilians, mainly women and children.
runk Got Gay Traffic?

how so is jordan responsible ?

spanno

It's amazing the crap they publish and believe...
******************************

only THEY?????
we have visiting morons on this board who believe the same!
Serge

spanno,
if you had intellegence 2 points above of the fence post, I'd show you how Jordan responcible for their land, camps, etc, but...
you are a moron and I don't waste my time arguing with morons,
I'm sure you find somebody who argue with me that your intelligence is 2 points above "fence post"

best of luck,
over and out.
Serge

>> what will it take for the fucking world to see how much palestinians want peace?

I think probably a lot of the palestinian people probably want peace but also they probably want israel to give them their land back I mean the basic problem is israel took their land and pushed a lot of them into refugee camps #


spanno

yeah, call me, lol
Hank D Dripping wet dollars

Morning Folks!

Hey Hank. I'm in. Are you? ;-)
Wig

C'mon Serge.. any Arab in the know could tell you that the Israelis are bombing themselves so they can justify their military incursions.
Yuu ever read the Arab online news ?? It's amazing the crap they publish and believe...

P.S. If visiting Israel, do NOT, I repeat, do NOT take the bus.


Hank D Dripping wet dollars

what will it take for the fucking world to see how much palestinians want peace?
Serge

Bombing in jerusalem

=(

Will there ever be peace there?
Forest

There was a wealth of material yesterday but it seems
to have gone unnoticed...

Timon
*************************

Timon,
some morons are SO moronic that even morons page is too good of a place for them!
;-))
Serge

Yeah you seem a little slack in updating that morons page...

There was a wealth of material yesterday but it seems
to have gone unnoticed...

Timon (Are you a player?)

I am humbled to have made the Pearls page BEFORE the morons page

Thanx Serge!
Forest
*************************

I have much more fun with Pearls than with Morons...story of my life
;-))
Serge

OK
speaking of advertising

People are RENTING out their dogs in NYC to wear Brand Names while walking around the city

Great Idea!
Get paid to walk your Pooch
Forest

Forest made his first Pearl!
congrats!
Serge
Fri, 12 Apr - 05:32:12 172.172.145.252 Post #: 7425
_________________________
I am humbled to have made the Pearls page BEFORE the morons page

Thanx Serge!
Forest

Great marketing is what makes the difference between a Good Product and a GREAT product
Forest
*************************

wow!!!

Forest made his first Pearl!
congrats!
Serge

Timon has a very good point. I think that the products that survive and outlast other products
are the ones that make it easiest for their users to watch porn. They should teach this at all Universities. Seriously! ;)
Jesse

Great marketing is what makes the difference between a Good Product and a GREAT product
Forest

Colin, Apple is an obsolete computer that stopped being
used by people many years ago because hardware upgrades
were too expensive and availability of software too low ;-)

I had to look that up in the history books ;-))

Timon (Are you a player?)

What's Apple?

What's a video tape?
Colin Ask Colin

Hey Betamax lost because there was no porn on Betamax!!

Let's not get things mixed up here! ;-)

Timon (Are you a player?)

a vital part of the long term branding ;-)
*************************

Ford susrvived pintos debacle...
Ford survived Firestone tires debacle...
even Clinton survived Lewinsky debacle and would have been re-elected if he could run again.

there is MUCH MORE than just quality in long term branding.
Serge

Offering quality is a vital part of the long term branding ;-)

Timon
***********************

yeah, tell that to the Sony whose BetaMax is BETTER quality than Panasonic's VHS.
Sony Lost.

tell that to Apple whose quality was better than pre-window's PC's
They lost too!

QUALITY by itself ain't mean shit if it not backed up by a proper marketing campaigne.

pintos were selling like hot cakes...even though they were SHIT!
Serge

Offering quality is a vital part of the long term branding ;-)

Timon (Are you a player?)

Serge,

My point was that if I wasn't offering good conversions
and payouts then my brand wouldn't be worth very much!

Just like you wouldn't buy a Beretta if it was known to
blow up in your face if you pull the trigger ;-))

Timon (Are you a player?)

Serge, there are many factors involved in the success
of a program, indeed everything starts and ends with
the reputation behind it but the factors in between, such
as good payouts, good conversions, innovations etc. make
a lot of difference too.

Timon
****************************

Timon,
even the best quality product in the world won't make the inventor money, unless it's SOLD.
Why do you think BRANDING is so important in real world?
You think companies who shell $350,000 for 30 sec Superball commercial expect everybody drop what they doing and run and buy their products?
nope....

I bet you there are hundreds of paysites out there with:
better conversions,
better retantions,
better payouts
and...we'll never know just because we don't know people behind them....

that's how I think it works,
prove me wrong.
Serge

DaveH Free Happy Meal with Every Purchase
**********************************
Now that's a good angle! ;-)

Timon (Are you a player?)

Serge,

I dont see em.. but I am sure they are around!!

Im sure you have ip logs!!

Thanks for the input, I know oprano is doing good.. shoot Mike owns half of Louisiana and well.. you had enough money to kill the NASDAQ!!
;))


chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs (Prices Subject To Change Next Month)

Chris, this is a cosmic coincidence! I just noticed that we both used the same approach in our resources area for offering our banner, but whats more amazing is that we use the same exact words at the top! (except for the company name of course) LOL!! ;-) ;-)

DaveH Free Happy Meal with Every Purchase

Night night folks..

Billy see you later today..

Gimme a ringy and let me know your plans!!

Timon,

Best of Luck with program and I was just using your program as an example.. But remember a good full page ad can reduce those ratios for your webmasters!!

:P

Thanks Serge!!

Dave send me an email and I will tell all!!
chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs

But I am sure Oprano made deals to get banners, buttons, advertising, etc..to get established..
*******************************

yes and no....

we started with the first price quote at $1200 per months cuz we had no idea what kind of traffic Oprano is gonna get, and we stated clearly:
prices are subject to change next month when we have better idea,
and we did change them when we got better idea.

2 people got SPECIAL prices:
1) Lensman, who came in the middle of the "piss with Toolz" and seized the moment,
2) Brad Shaw, who was an honarary member of "adopt Jew for Xmass" program
;-)))

you don't see them around anymore, do you?
;-))

when I talk about "loyalty based on prices", I know what I am talking about
;-)))
Serge

And to that I'd like to add that if I would be someone who'd
make the exact same program with the exact same payout as
everyone else then my name wouldn't be "Timon" anymore ;-)

Timon (Are you a player?)

Serge, there are many factors involved in the success
of a program, indeed everything starts and ends with
the reputation behind it but the factors in between, such
as good payouts, good conversions, innovations etc. make
a lot of difference too.

Timon (Are you a player?)

Yep Serge I agree..

But I am sure Oprano made deals to get banners, buttons, advertising, etc..to get established.. then their value became realized and determined..

My lower prices are to build portfolio, get additional clients, and get exposure.. then the value of these designs is determined and prices go up accordingly :)

I'm not reinventing the wheel.. just running a sale!

:)
chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs

Originally info.cern.ch

The first web page:
http://www.w3.org/History/19921103-hypertext/hypertext/WWW/News/9201.html

Colin WTF?

Chris, touche! ;-)

Timon (Are you a player?)
Fri, 12 Apr - 04:36:09 66.181.168.115 Post #: 74226
********************************

nope!!!!

Timon,
ask yourself,
do people sign up with me due to my $50 per sign up, which is not exactly the highest by all means,
or because they know me????

How much you wanna bet that "blah-new-blah" who comes tomorrow and offers $55 per sign up won't get anywhere near the business "Timon" gets?
Serge

Chris, are you still a one-man company, or do you have employees/sub-contractors?

DaveH Free Happy Meal with Every Purchase

Cause how can one company pay 30, one pay 35 and some pay as much as 70?
***********************************

Don't forget to include RETENTION in the equation.

Premium sites buying premium traffic

will have a lot longer average retention

than those that buy shitty traffic for shitty sites.


Webfather

But doesn't a new design company need one too??

:)
chris/pornoman
****************************

not in YOUR case...you have something REAL new companies don't have,
you have NAME every real player knows and you have CONTACTS real newbs do not.

Chris,
you made yourself a NAME,
most valuable thing companies throw out billions to "brand",
why not capitalize on your ASSETS instead of going to their level and just becoming one of "them"?

Perception is reality...did Oprano presented itself in July as
"we are a new board, never done it before and we'll beat everybody's prices"????

(as a matter of fact, we had no idea how much anybody charges, we were THAT new!)

nope, we haven't. The whole business was built on BRAND names.

something to think about...
Serge

Chris, touche! ;-)

Timon (Are you a player?)

Timon,

Yes I do!! :))

But doesn't a new design company need one too??

:)
chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs and FREE UPDATES for X months!

Chris, don't you think that a program launched in 2002
needs an angle, like higher payouts for example? ;-)

Timon (Are you a player?)

Timon,

It is a merry go round arguement..

I would think your signups at 50.00 was determined also to get webmaster attention and traffic.. yet you could have come out at 35.00 like most..

Thats all I am saying.. then I am packing and moving to Timbuktu!


chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs and FREE UPDATES for X months!

Timon,

Who said anything about value?

I was talking perception and price!!

That dont equal value!
chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs and FREE UPDATES for X months!

Chris, if you're implying that the value of a sign up can not
be more than $35 then you should include some numbers to
back up your claim... which you can't because the numbers
will prove you wrong.

Timon (Are you a player?)

But remember that some people figure if you are paying more per signup than anyone else.. you must be shaving.. Cause how can one company pay 30, one pay 35 and some pay as much as 70?
****************************

stupid people are everywhere and this business is not exception.

just imagine...
you process with...National Bank of Timbouktu and are not subject to hassles of Visa USA and your are the biggest customer of this National Bank of the island with 62,500 citizens who treats you like royalty and employs 120 natives to fight your EVERY chargeback tooth and nails.

can you afford paying $70 than if your cc reject rate and backcharge rate are 1/3 of your US based counterparts????
Serge

I don't see Wyldesites dropping their prices...

Timon
************************

Timon,
MikeW's million dollar house "non cheap" designs bought is "the proof in the pudding"
;-)))
Serge

Price wars don't work....
by lowering your prices you enter the zone of every jack and harry with adobe photoshop and 3 days experience.

let's look back and see how it works on the global level.

Japan started price competing with US in electronics and Germans in cars 20 years ago.

Today Lexuses, Infinitys, Acuras
are 15-20k below their german counterparts and...
Germany enjoys one of the busiest economies in Europe while Japan has one of the longest economic stagnations in their modern history.
Serge

I can't speak for others or how they run their businesses..

But remember that some people figure if you are paying more per signup than anyone else.. you must be shaving.. Cause how can one company pay 30, one pay 35 and some pay as much as 70? For what is supposed to be someone signing up for a paysite? I don't see ARS paying $50.00 per signup or even $70.00!!

Perception is in the eye of the beholder!!!
chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs and FREE UPDATES for X months!

Serge, I got it so refined that now

I quadruple the prices and
only lose 25% of the business.

;-))

Webfather

http://www.swearbear.com/SwearBear/keyboard.asp

great site i'm sending out cards like crazy.
mutt

Serge has a good point, cheap is often associated with
low quality and many people don't mind paying a little
extra for quality.

I don't see Wyldesites dropping their prices...

Timon (Are you a player?)

webdad, your math is wrong...
Make THE SAME working 1/2 hard

(but you do make double when you get to 100% capacity)
;-)))
Serge

I am a student of Webfather's School of Business and it's motto:
"Double the prices - lose 1/2 the business"
Serge
Fri, 12 Apr - 03:47:09 172.172.145.252 Post #: 74211
*********************************

Serge, you forgot the best part.

Make twice as much working 1/2 as hard.

;-))

Webfather

Im pretty sure every designer has clients that they do work for cheaper than other clients.. I am very sure about that..
*****************************************

I am a student of Webfather's School of Business and it's motto:
"Double the prices - lose 1/2 the business"
Serge

If it proves to be a hit, I'm taking you out for a great meal and best vodka we can find :-)

DaveH Teaser
*****************************

it surely will...new ideas is what made this business great and "fist full of dollars", not price wars
Serge

oh no.. I will have reduced priced clients.. then new clients will be full priced :)

Get in now while I am cheap whore.. cause for later companies I become expensive whore..haha

Im pretty sure every designer has clients that they do work for cheaper than other clients.. I am very sure about that..

chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs and FREE UPDATES for X months!

Serge, I understand where you're coming from perfectly, and for a long time I did not bring my prices down. But now it's just gotten to the point where it's ridiculous, every time I turn around another company has sprung up a "will work for food" sign right next to my shop. You've known me a long time, I started out doing projects for ScottP in 1997 when he introduced me to the YNOT board. I didn't survive this long by being too stupid, although I have made my share of mistakes :-) I will play the price now for a short time, until everyone gets tired of working their ass off for pennies. It's time to level the playing field and take price out of the picture, and let clients make their decision based on what they want, not the cost.

That being said, you have given me a BRILLIANT idea with your "2 cents" and I am VERY inspired this morning! I have the perfect thing to PRODUCT add to Teaser services that the other design companies are not offering right now. I hope to add this new "product" to my offerings by mid next week. If it proves to be a hit, I'm taking you out for a great meal and best vodka we can find :-)

DaveH Teaser

My reduced prices are really only to build client base.. they wont last long.. :)
*****************************

that's what YOU think....
1) try RAISING prices and see how easy that is

2) customer loyalty based on cheap prices disappears rather fast when prices go up
Serge

Dravyk,
Happy birthday!

here is my gift:

http://www.etards.net/i_love_you.swf
Serge

Serge,

Giving away Speed will get you in trouble.. Maybe I would give away some Pot.. but never Speed!!

My reduced prices are really only to build client base.. they wont last long.. :)

Really only way to get new business is to get their attention and prices do that.. then keep em with quality.. :)
chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs and FREE UPDATES for X months!

Can you believe he demands more money from a sponsor,
********************************

here are 2 business approaches:

1) if you can't beat them - join them

2) "the whore is the only one who can determine the price of the whore"

guess which approach is more profitable?
;-)))

"Mayflower Madame" made millions while hookers on 12th Avenue made millions blow jobs.

something to think about...
Serge

DaveH,
wrong approach. If I were you, I'd RAISE my prices and give clients something EXTRA others can't like
SPEED
FREE UPDATES for X months
etc.

I was the most expensive sign maker in town and saw my cheap competition go. Theyr were so cheap that I ordered from them and resold it to retail customers and made more money than them who actually did the work.

They had months long logs...I could do it right away and
every day lost in launching the site
are money lost forever.

just my 2 cents
Serge

LOL!! Oh my, this could get ugly...
Ya know, I've been kind of concerned about the design market lately, with all the price wars etc..., and I have to admit it was starting to upset me. (not just here, I mean in general) To me it seemed like a bunch of folks pissing in their own pool... But, thanks to revelations this morning, you guys have helped me to reach a decision. I guess I just need to apply the old "if ya can't beat 'em, join 'em" philosophy :-) Starting today, I'll just match the price of the competition :-)

Thanks guys! I feel like it's a fresh start once again!

DaveH Now Matching Prices!

I'll do 100 banners for 7.00 each!!

:P

Thanks Mutt for fixing that!

Im workign nights at Mickey D's and cant afford too much free!!

chris/pornoman $799.00 Full Paysite Designs, 99.00 FPA'S, $7.00 BANNERS!! Woooohooo!

webdad stop scamming your beefed up traffic from friend to friend, you should team up with the hun hahaha
bloee
Thu, 11 Apr - 23:39:53 144.138.166.37 Post #: 74188

bloee you are absolutely correct.

Can you believe he demands more money from a sponsor, crieing over spilt milk in public. The irony is that most of his last 5 or 10 sponsors are crieing as well.



Confucy anon imposters of the anon imposter