In the 20 years that I knew Toni I had lots of things thrown at me and even had a few knifes pointed my way, but it wasn't until Toni had easy access to a gun did I end up with 6 gunshot wounds.
Guns just make you feel safe, but chances are you will not have your trusty gun when you need it and it is much more likely that it will fall into the wrong hands.
25 shootings in 15 days is bad but nothing compared to america
**************************
spanno, nice come back after being
proven wrong. ;-)) Looks like ppl
do still kill each other with guns
in England.
Again, the bigger picture is that
guns are not the problem. Can we
have an itelligent conversation on
what the problem is?
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:27:38 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73499
oh China! the question is did u USA guys really miss when you took out their embassy in yugoslavia ? :o)
come on be honest, you told us all for years those smart bombs can fly down a air ventilation shaft and land right on the badguys nose we don't you "missed"
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:26:36 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73498
Yes Erik is still alive. Can I post my picture of Me and Sharon???
Huh Mike? Can I please?
The Producer
***********************************
did you register as a professional reader and did you buy lifetime Oprano Professional Reading membership?
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:22:21 63.202.20.159 Post #: 73495
Yes Erik is still alive. Can I post my picture of Me and Sharon???
Huh Mike? Can I please?
The Producer
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:21:18 12.43.108.57 Post #: 73494
25 shootings in 15 days is bad but nothing compared to america
whats demagogy ?
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:21:16 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73493
Believe me the drunk would use a knife
or a bat, anyway.
********
Since knifes and bats don't fly across the room at 2000 mph and do take some effort besides pulling a trigger I think we all might just be a bit better off.
I don't own a gun. A gun would not have stopped me from getting shot. In 45 years I've never had a need for a gun.
perhaps you should enlist in UK Army instead of spreading demagogy on the boards?
Serge
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:19:10 172.137.161.226 Post #: 73489
Cleo, that is such a naieve way of thinking, Im just laughing my ass off. Really I am.
If a drunk gets pissed off at someone, he will find other means of harm if he has no gun.
Beside, Drugs and alcohol kill more people annually than guns do.
voodooman (Do you TRUST that I'm straight?)
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:18:26 151.204.104.54 Post #: 73488
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:18:14 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73487
its probably best you guys stay with guns to be honest it might have just been better for you if you never had them in the first place.. like you have so many illegal guns you need guns to defend yourselves against because you have legal guns no ?
spanno
*************************
some brits still can't get over the fact that GUNS threw them out of Colony,
and not their "good will"
get used to it, spannos
Serge
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:17:32 172.137.161.226 Post #: 73486
perhaps usa should legalise grenades, morters and surface to air missiles for civilians in case the russians decide to have another pop ?
:o)
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:16:28 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73485
SOMEONE TALK TO ME PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! LOL
Miss Prinny Is Eric still alive?
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:58:33 205.188.193.43 Post #: 73471
**********************************
why?
Serge
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:16:01 172.137.161.226 Post #: 73484
Cleo,
In a perfect world if we could wisk all
guns away, you are right. But this
isn't a perfect world.
Believe me the drunk would use a knife
or a bat, anyway. ;-)
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:15:17 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73483
its well known that Arafart has contacts
*************************
...and how many spannos know that Yassir Arafat is the one who invented plane hijackings?
Serge
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:14:31 172.137.161.226 Post #: 73482
>> Guns are everywhere here and so are drugs and alcohol.
why don't you ban the guns and legalise the drugs I bet you will find theres less shootings
>> where i live, everyone has a gun. yet,nobody is shooting each other.
well yer but then nobody is shooting anyone here and nobody has guns...
its probably best you guys stay with guns to be honest it might have just been better for you if you never had them in the first place.. like you have so many illegal guns you need guns to defend yourselves against because you have legal guns no ?
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:11:22 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73481
Wig
No our problems would still be there, but there sure would be a lot less shootings and drunks wouldn't shoot someone that was laying on a couch that pissed them off.
what is it that bred the circumstances that produces people willing to go and blow themselves up ?
*************************
It's a religious thing that goes back
to Abraham. Face it, the jews just
want to exist and the rest of the
middle east wants them not to.
There will never be a peace deal made
there. Not one that will last
anyway. We better just start facing
up to it and start dealing with the
root of our own problems.
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:11:16 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73479
spanno, sure they're pissed off with Israelies but resorting to violance and terrorism is not helping their cause any. With Arafart supporting and directing terorist actions is not helping Palestinian people any either.
If Arafart wanted peace and full control of West Bank, why didnt he take the offer when Burakh was giving them full control of 98% of west bank and east Jerusalem in 2000. Arafart supposrts Hamas and their actions. Hamas is not after any kind of peace they're after getting all of Israel and kicking all of the Israelies out.
Current Intefada started as protests against PLO and Arafart, and Arafart turned that around and made it against Israel to save his own ass. Just like every other Arab country does redirects internal problems and blames the West for everything.
And on the Palestinian issue, its well known that Arafart has contacts with Saddam Hussein and its in Hussein's interest to keep up the terror in Israel and divert worlds attention from Irag. And Hussein has publicly said that he pays $25k to the family of each suicide bomber.
anyways, suicide bombings will never help Palestinians and thats the real problem here.
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:09:33 63.202.20.159 Post #: 73478
I dont understand why someone would take thier life either. Itd meaningless. Why cant there be peace on earth? Miss Prinnythey keep us in business
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:08:37 205.188.193.43 Post #: 73477
Cleo,
If you could magically wisk away every
gun in america, would our problems go
away? Or, would they be shifted to
another blame piece?
The problem is bigger than guns and
actually has nothing to do with guns
per se.
Smoke another bowl ;-))
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:07:24 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73476
>> And the reason a 10 year old kid blows himself up is????
that is media hype, and there has only been one woman suicide bombing I think, don't the ten year olds just throw rocks?
most suicide bombers as far as I know are young men that are of age to make decisions for themselves
so you can say they maybe a twisted by islam, extremism etc but what is it that bred the circumstances that produces people willing to go and blow themselves up ?
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:07:09 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73475
spanno,
look at the bigger picture. guns are
not the problem.
where i live, everyone has a gun. yet,
nobody is shooting each other.
think about it. ;-)
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 18:03:58 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73474
Guns are everywhere here and so are drugs and alcohol. Then you have the crazies that shouldn't even be allowed to own a steak knife, but they own, legally, a small arsenal of weapons because they are paranoid. This all makes for a very dangerous mixture.
As someone who has been a victim of a shooting I personally believe all this right to own guns has put our society into a very dangerous corner.
in UK there are no guns really and so you don't need a gun to defend yourself against guns and I think its kinda nice not having to worry about being shot... if I lived in USA I'd definitely buy shitloads of guns I like them but its a bit of a worry you don't need, I'm not worried about terrorists since they can't buy guns here either... I'd like to have a gun though, definitely if I lived in USA I'd have one of those select fire / full auto glocks and maybe an MP5 if they're legal!
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:59:56 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73472
SOMEONE TALK TO ME PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! LOL
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:58:33 205.188.193.43 Post #: 73471
spanno,
Good point. And the reason a 10 year
old kid blows himself up is????
Please tell me. ;-)
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:56:38 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73470
Voodooman,
I agree totally. ;-))
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:55:12 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73469
people don't blow themselves up for no reason
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:54:38 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73468
Spanno, what planet are you on? Palestians have all kinds of militias - they all have tons of weapons. They are constantly given new weapons from Iran, Iraq, Syria...
They are just to chicken to get their army to face the Isaeli army in open combat. SO they send children, and women with bomb belts to blow up civilians.
Even if your arguement had factual basis, the PLO are still targeting civilians. If the bombers, and other terrorists only targeted military targets, or maybe even gov't targets they might have some sympathy. BUt the fact is they only target children, women, elderly and other civlians.
I may be way off, but, its
my belief that america is
so strong BECAUSE our citizens
are allowed to have guns, and
many do. Can you imagine what
other hostile countries and
terrorist organizations would
think or do if Americans
were stripped of their guns,
and constitutional rights?
I think there would be alot
more shit happening here.
But, I could be wrong.
voodooman (Do you TRUST that I'm straight?)
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:50:34 151.204.104.54 Post #: 73466
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:50:30 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73465
Thanks Vick! ;-)
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:47:15 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73464
Mike,
Yeah, I saw that about Brady! What a joke. You are right, it is amazing with what some people will come up with.
I am also disappointed in Bush. But,
although he is better than Gore
hands down, I knew he was just
another politician more concerned
with political survival than doing
what is right. Sad, cuz I really
like him.
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:45:19 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73463
don't you think the reason some Palestinians resort to terrorism is maybe because they have no army and no other way to fight ? don't you think it takes some serious grievance for people to resort to tactics like suicide bombings ?
or do you think Palestinians blow themselves all the time ? like if they lived in america and their car got stuck in a traffic jam or they stubbed their toe in the morning thats it booom they'd suicide bomb
no I think they are human and incredibly pissed off with something
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:44:41 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73462
Peaches,
Jill went through it and it was not
that big of a deal. Definitely easier
in GA than it was for me in Texas.
Did you get yours?
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:41:42 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73461
they yer well they don't wanna masacre them anymore they've allready moved them out of their land and into refugee camps years and years ago.
>> They are not trying to kill all palestinians - only the ones who pose a threat to the people of Israel.
ok of course they could not be seen to do this outright but when they roll into their towns with tanks, knock down buildings, put them under siege etc etc what sort of message do you think they are trying to send ?
>> In my opinion they have been MUCH more restrained then they could have been. Of course its because Bush has been putting pressure on them
bush is letting Israel get away with as much as they can do without making everyone else totally mad, where did the israelis get their apaches, tanks and other military gear from ? who gives them loads of aid ?
are they CIVILISED because they have high tech weapons to fight with not terrorism ?
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:37:57 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73459
WIG I am with you 100% on the 2nd Amendment. Many liberals come up with all kinds of crazy reasons for us to abandon our guns.
Did you see Sarah Brady actually violated some gun laws she helped push through congress. She made a straw purchase of a rifle for a gift for her kid! hahaha
Something that amazed me: I went in and bought a gun. In and out in less than half an hour. But if I want to get a permit to carry it to protect myself? 2 sets of FULL finger prints (fingers, thumbs, palm, etc.), it goes through 3 different "investigations" and I have to wait 6-9 months. It seems that if you're a law abiding citizen that wants to protect yourself, you're thrown into massive red tape - it's not as if the criminals are worried about getting permits!
Peaches
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:31:30 65.112.37.219 Post #: 73457
Spanno, if the Israelis wanted to massacre the palistinians they would be bombarding them from the air and using heavy artilery on them. They are NOT doing this, infact they have been going house to house which is MUCH more dangerous for the israeli troops to round up all the terrorist, and militants.
They are not trying to kill all palestinians - only the ones who pose a threat to the people of Israel.
In my opinion they have been MUCH more restrained then they could have been. Of course its because Bush has been putting pressure on them - and because the Israelis are CIVILZED people.
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:27:02 151.204.104.54 Post #: 73455
Voodooman,
Was it Chuck Heston?
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:26:14 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73454
I know I don't have any issues at all personally with registered gun owners owning multiple weapons etc, but it does affect society in general to have loads of guns floating around.
**************************
What affects society is the dumbing
down of America through poor
education, welfare, gun control and
other socialist ideas that don't
focus on the big picture. IMO
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:25:09 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73453
Here is a question for everyone - how do "street gangs" and militias get their hands on American made military grade hardware like M16s or Uzis? I can only assume either the factories "loose" crates of these things or that perhaps people in the army sell them onto the street...?? Isn't there some kind of control kept on these things? I've always found that a bit strange
***********************
These kind of guns are easy to get.
They are illegal if they are
converted to fully automatic, though.
A person could ask the same thing
about drugs. Making drugs illegal
did not stop drug use.
It did waste our tax dollars and
drive the price up. Same thing
would happen with guns, which is why
I have more than just the guns I
hunt with.
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:23:00 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73452
Arafat gave the order in 1972 to kill the Israeli Olympic atheletes in Munich. He's been a terrorist for 50 years. Sharon isn't a great deal better but at least he doesn't send 10 year olds with 20 pounds of explosives strapped to them to kill civilians.
There is no solution here because neither side wants one. They won't be happy until the other side is wiped out completely.
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:21:52 12.226.153.78 Post #: 73451
Our countries are very similiar in everything except that we are more socialist in general.
*******************************
And the quickest way to get the US there is by gun laws.
Thanks, but no thanks. ;-)
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:18:44 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73450
Anyone know who said this???
"Mr. Clinton, sir, America didn't trust you with our health-care system. America didn't trust you with gays in the military. America doesn't trust you with our 21-year-old daughters, and we sure, Lord, don't trust you with our guns."
voodooman (Do you TRUST that I'm straight?)
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:17:58 151.204.104.54 Post #: 73449
And Wig, I see you and I read the same person's website daily ;))
Peaches
*****************************
Neal is the man. ;-))
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:16:27 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73448
ok the palestinians may be involved in terrorism but the israelis have basically used terrorist tactics against them and like the masacre sharon was involved in thats helped push the palestinians out of their land and into refugee camps.. no wonder they are pissed off!
>>> The only way to win is to wipe them off the map, and thay includes nation/states that suponsor, support and pay for these rouges.
you can't wipe out a whole people just because of extremist elements also you can't seriouslly tell me USA has never sponsorred or supported terrorists??
who created osama bin laden in the first place the CIA funded and trained these nutters to fight guerilla war against the russians in afghanistan?
spanno
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:06:09 62.31.64.2 Post #: 73447
hey Peaches where do stay when your in Jersey ?
**************************
Er, uh, I haven't been to Jersey in 7 or so years.....:/ And then I stayed in River Edge and HoHoKus (really!) with a guy I was dating.
But I DO have an ex-husband that works at the Sands in AC that owes me around $60K, so I'm up for a trip :)
I'm leaving on vacation for the Outer Banks - is that what you're talking about or did I miss the punch line somewhere? :p
*****************
Peaches this is now a binding offer... so better remember us little people! ;-)
*******************
It's in writing - there's no way I could weasel out of it :)))
Peaches
Wed, 10 Apr - 17:05:58 65.112.37.219 Post #: 73446
The stats show that states that issue carry permits and areas that have liberal gun laws....
----------
Pick a subject and I can find you published stats for or against it.
Stats between different states may show that gun laws do nothing, but the stats gun problems in places like Canada where the rules about owning guns is a lot stricter are MUCH smaller then in the USA. Our countries are very similiar in everything except that we are more socialist in general.
I know I don't have any issues at all personally with registered gun owners owning multiple weapons etc, but it does affect society in general to have loads of guns floating around.
Here is a question for everyone - how do "street gangs" and militias get their hands on American made military grade hardware like M16s or Uzis? I can only assume either the factories "loose" crates of these things or that perhaps people in the army sell them onto the street...?? Isn't there some kind of control kept on these things? I've always found that a bit strange
Not sure which I would find more amusing, winning the lottery or seeing monkeys flying out of someone's butt. They visual that this summands is really kind of overwhelming.
what if monkey's flew out of my butt? ;-)
***********************
That may be, but I still bought $10 worth of tickets last night ;) It was the first time I've bought Lotto tickets since the Lotto started here, lol! But I plan on buying ANOTHER $10 on Friday before I leave and if I win $200mil, I'll buy everyone at Oprano a big steak and seafood dinner (and lots of booze) :))
And Wig, I see you and I read the same person's website daily ;))
Peaches
Wed, 10 Apr - 16:53:55 65.112.37.219 Post #: 73441
Spanno, I am familiar with what Sharon did in the refugee camps. He is the elected official of Israel.
It is my opinion that Bush should support Israel against the terrorists - which inlcudes Arafat and the PLO!
The speech Netanyahu gave today in the US Sentate was very accurate. Bush has got to grow some balls, and stop pandering to the PLO and the other Arab countries.
Either you are against terrorist and terrorism or you support them. There is no middle grown. I thought Bush understood this - but he seems to be backing down.
No way should our Sec. of State should be meeting with arafat until he came out and condemned suicide bombing both in english and arabic.
All Bush is doing by pandering to some terrorists is embolding other terrorists groups who know if they keep up their terror we will negotiate with them and give them credibility and they win.
The only way to win is to wipe them off the map, and thay includes nation/states that suponsor, support and pay for these rouges.
I am VERY dissapointed in Bush. The clarity he had after 9-11 is good, and he is becoming a pandering pussy with no clear goals. Maybe we can call him clinton ii!
Wed, 10 Apr - 16:53:15 63.100.104.52 Post #: 73440
Merv Griffin offered to build the Pirates and Steelers new stadiums if they let him put a casino here. Of course the local dumbasses that run this city turned him down and spent $600 million in tax money instead.
If people want to gamble that's their business, it's not my business whether they can afford it or not. They're going to do it whether it's legal or illegal.
Ain't that the sad truth. I know one program right now that has the shave factor turned up so high it would make Serge jealous.
Wig, that's what makes checks look real good. I generally don't have a lot of chargebacks but occassionally some cockholster will chargeback for 6 months worth of membership. That REALLY pisses me off that CC companies allow that and don't question it. They could care less about the merchant because allowing chargebacks is a cash cow for them.
Wed, 10 Apr - 16:34:15 12.226.153.78 Post #: 73433
Slav,
Speaking of lotteries, I thought this was pretty funny....
The lottery is a tax! It's the one tax that you can count on for many poor people and low achievers to pay! It's a tax on stupidity. A fine for ignorance.
Long live the lottery, and how about some more lottery sales outlets in low-income neighborhoods.
In fact, allow the poor to purchase lottery tickets with food stamps! Fantastic! What a great idea! The taxpayers hand the bucks to the lottery losers in the form of food stamps, and they give it right back to the taxpayers by buying lottery tickets!
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 16:31:32 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73432
Wed, 10 Apr - 16:22:22 63.100.104.52 Post #: 73428
Ulfie,
I have to say that consumer fraud
(friendly fraud) was a lot more than
double 17mm. ;-))
Too bad the Feds don't count that.
They should have learned thru their
episode with Max Cash. ;-)
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 16:21:48 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73427
I read that article earlier today and it just proves how inept the government is. Only $17 million in fraud last year, get real! Consumer fraud was probably double that in chargebacks alone.
Sounds like you need a hot toddy.
Take a whole lemon or orange and
slice it up. Then heat it up with
some red wine until it's soft. Make
sure you eat the peel and all, and
of course drink all the wine. ;-))
Works like a champ.
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 16:03:00 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73421
Who needs guns anyway when you can always grab a big shovel? :)
Anyone else run down with the convention crud? I'm friggin dying still :(
Soooooooooooooo, anyone else
notice that Flyntdigital
went to free trials???
Or am I just way behind on
this shit?
voodooman (Do you TRUST that I'm straight?)
Wed, 10 Apr - 15:18:31 216.66.64.207 Post #: 73414
Wed, 10 Apr - 15:17:46 64.12.101.174 Post #: 73413
I signed up for Big Players today and took the tours for the first time. It's nice that the surfer can go back and forth in the frame without a bunch of shit popping up in their face, but when I closed the window to see what kind of consoles would pop up it invoked my script debugger. The consoles do not work on a Mac and even crashed my browser, IE 5.1, when I told the script debugger to continue running the JavaScript.
The SP89 is a nice weapon, but I'll put my cheapass 7.62 SAR-1 up against that anytime.
Hey Serge...next time you go to the range let me know! I'm all for joining the South Florida Webmaster Militia.
Blaze!
Wed, 10 Apr - 15:13:52 64.51.19.203 Post #: 73411
Ounique thats funny that U should say that. I was going to move to La this May. But, my plans changed and I am staying here in Houston, TX. Plus, I still lock my doors during thta day when I'm here. I think I've watched too many scary movies or sumthing.LOL Miss PrinnySerge and the Goat beleive in the 2nd Amendment!
Wed, 10 Apr - 15:11:27 64.12.101.174 Post #: 73410
Hmmmmm - wonder if I would be the first suspect if you came home and all your stained glass was missing ;)
******************************
When are you leaving town again? ;-)) LOL
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 15:09:52 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73409
From a recent post I made.
First, there is no, nor will there ever be, a utopia where there are no violent crimes. Whether it is with Guns, knives, baseball bats, etc. It occurs to me that most ppl who are for gun control are idealists who imagine how safe the world would be if there were no firearms. I think this is very misguided.
The stats show that states that issue carry permits and areas that have liberal gun laws have drastically lower gun crimes than states/areas that have all these draconian gun laws. Take Washington DC for example. They have the strictest gun laws in the US. However, their gun crime rate is 4 times that of Virginia, which is right across the border.
There are already 1000s of gun laws on the books that are aimed to keep guns away from criminals. They just are not enforced very well. And, do you really think that a guy who is going to commit rape or murder, etc. is actually going to give a shit about violating any stricter gun laws? Not a chance! Only the law-abiding citizens will. There will always be a market for guns just like there is a market for drugs, and criminals will always get their hands on them.
Personally, I don?t give a shit if some of our "super-socialist" states want to pass these draconian gun laws because criminals will all go to those states (like DC) and all the smart people will move. But, if it?s a Federal law it affects ppl like me who live in an area where everyone has a gun, has always had guns and where there are NO gun crimes!
Remember, criminals don't want their victims to be armed. Oddly enough, neither do many governments. The 2nd amendment was to protect us from tyranny, not bodily harm. Look at the big picture!
Wig
Wed, 10 Apr - 15:07:31 63.151.255.189 Post #: 73408
I grew up in a small town where you really didn't have to lock your doors at night. Now, living in LA I lock the doors while I'm home in the middle of the day, LOL!