Our Arab, Turkish, and French friends have seen to it that Saddam stayed in power.

Nuke them too, fuck it


Hank D Autolink to 500+ of your closest dearest friends

Remember that most analysts thought Saddam would get overthrown by his own people and that formed a major part of that administration's decision to not press on to Baghdad.
---------------------------------
thats what i mean. that was the plan... to have his own people remove him. At the time, that was the most reasonable alternative to just blowing him up.

it would have been more dramatic to blow him up at the end. I watched the gulf war everyday on CNN. Cool production... neat footage, cool effects... well directed... lot of action.

weak plot
poor ending.

could have used a soundtrack.

:-)

JR

"There was not a better alternative to removing him."

Remember that most analysts thought Saddam would get overthrown by his own people and that formed a major part of that administration's decision to not press on to Baghdad.

There was a clear goal in the 1991 war and that was to remove Saddam's forces from Kuwait. That goal was met.
Colin Got Bombs?

TE, we were saying the same thing here at the office
dantheman

There is something rather cool watching the space shuttle launches. Love that stuff!


TheEnforcer

hey guys I need a banner, can someone lead the way...


oh yeah, re: middle east,
find other sources of energy and say fuck them
:))
dantheman

How possible could it be for Western forces to take over the entire place and simply install a democratic system?

The takeover part is easy.
A solution to who holds power afterward similar to the Afghani interim government seems like it will work just fine.

Just give 'em some Britney Spears tapes attached to a ballot.
Colin Got Bombs?

Do we know a policy for the replacement? I seem to recall this question never getting answered last time!
000000000000000000000000
this was the issue during the Gulf War. There was not a better alternative to removing him. they could have taken him out, but the blowback from the chaos and turmoil and vacuum created to only be filled by another whacko while inflaming arab hostility was not a viable solution.

Plus it is illegal to assisinate leaders under every convention of war and at the time was illegal unders US law as well.

apparently, sanctions were not really a viable solution either in the hopes that people would rise up and depose him.

In retrospect, they should have probably just whacked him "accidentally".

JR

Push, any time you wanna run for public office-
you get my vote!
Serge

"'If history teaches us anything, it teaches that simple-minded appeasement or wishful thinking about our adversaries is folly. It means the betrayal of our past, the squandering of our freedom.'"
President Reagan delivered those words in Orlando, Fla., on March 3, 1983.
Mike AI

Mike, definitely persona non grata, lol

I didn't say make them states, Serge. Gawd forbid, could you imagine having congressmen from Canada and Mexico ?
Think congress can't get anything done now ?? lol
Hank D Autolink to 500+ of your closest dearest friends

"the policy of my administration is the removal of Saddam Hussein from power"
***********************************

Do we know a policy for the replacement? I seem to recall this question never getting answered last time!

How possible could it be for Western forces to take over the entire place and simply install a democratic system?

Opti

What the hell does a dwarf know about world politics anyway??


Monk

I just noticed my post was less than clear that you referred to. I went fromtalking about my support for removing Sadaam to the Sharon offensive and that could be quite confusing transition the way i made it. Sorry about that.


TheEnforcer

JR,

I was talking about Bush condoning an Israeli offensive by Sharon.


TheEnforcer

Newsflash...

Israel is beginning to withdraw from two west bank cities.

Bush is on live right now.


TheEnforcer

I don't think Bush would say that PUBLICLY
----------------------------
he said it clearly and publicly.

"the policy of my administration is the removal of Saddam Hussein from power"

JR

Oh, Sadaam is a piece of shit and should definately be taken out. No doubt about it.

I don't think Bush would say that PUBLICLY as it would enflame passions on the Arab side and could cause stuff to happen prematurely. In a private call, by all means, but I believe he's got to keep this somewhat nuetral stance that kind of plays to both sides to maintain HIS ultimate objective of ivading Iraq on his terms and no one else's. What he says in PUBLIC might be a far cry from his private conversations with Sharon. It's a delicate balancing act and one that isn't an easy thing to do.


TheEnforcer

Mike,

I'm not sure about that scenario. Only in that it seems unlikely that a situation would arise where "tactical" nukes would be the only choice. I don't have any philosophical problem with the use of nukes. A bomb is a bomb. Suffering is Suffering. Terror is Terror. If you're going to carpet bomb/fire bomb cities you might as well drop a nuke. It's the
political ramifications of using a nuclear weapon that are dangerous.

None have been dropped in wartime since Nagasaki and I think the longer that doesn't happen, the better off the world is.

Is the smallest nuclear weapon more capable of doing the job you are discussing more than any other conventional weapons "we" possess? I don't feel very sure about that.

I'm all in favor of knocking out Saddam. Leaving that guy around for too long is a recipe for a serious disaster. He has Hitlerian aims. I am not saying "he is another Hitler" because he does not have the military apparatus that Hitler had. I'm just saying he is the head of a state and has the same goals (publicly voiced) as Hitler. Bye bye.
Colin Got Bombs?

Hank,
good idea!
we have room for 2 more stars on the flag
;-))
Serge

Mike,

I'm not sure about that scenario. Only in that it seems unlikely that a situation would arise where "tactical" nukes would be the only choice. I don't have any philosophical problem with the use of nukes. A bomb is a bomb. Suffering is Suffering. Terror is Terror. If you're going to carpet bomb/fire bomb cities you might as well drop a nuke. It's the
political ramifications of using a nuclear weapon that are dangerous.

None have been dropped in wartime since Nagasaki and I think the longer that doesn't happen, the better off the world is.

Is the smallest nuclear weapon more capable of doing the job you are discussing more than any other conventional weapons "we" possess? I don't feel very sure about that.

I'm all in favor of knocking out Saddam. Leaving that guy around for too long is a recipe for a serious disaster. He has Hitlerian aims. I am not saying "he is another Hitler" because he does not have the military apparatus that Hitler had. I'm just saying he is the head of a state and has the same goals (publicly voiced) as Hitler. Bye bye.
Colin Got Bombs?

Hank, are you even allowed to go across the Canadien border now?>


Mike AI

Enforcer, there is no doubt that IRaw has been financing the suicide bombers - paying families for the sacrifices. Saddam knows while this is going on in Israel, his chances of surviving go up more.

I am saying Bush should tell Israel to get their business done quickly - and then get back out of the cities. I think this is what Sharon is doing.

The Israeleis are going door to door - they are trying to limit the amount of innocent casualities. They could be bombing from the air indiscriminately, or shelling these plaes which would be much more effective in killing bad guys - but it would kill many innocent people ( palistinians)


Mike AI

Oh, and Mike, I think we should start this new Imperialism by taking over Canada and Mexico, enslaving the populations and pillaging their national resources.

Then we go for the South American drug plantations...:):)

How's that for PC ??

Hank D Autolink to 500+ of your closest dearest friends

I differ, Iraq is moving towards weapons of mass destruction and needs to be stopped before they get nukes
Imagine Nukes in the hands of terrorists especially if they get desperate
That is a very bad situation for the entire world
Vick Sorry about the tag line ;-(

BTW- keep your head down and hopefully the weather will veer off and miss ya!!


TheEnforcer

I dont agree..
*******************************

me too!

I beleive that NOTHING should be done untill EVERYBODY learn the words of Kumbaya in 3 languages and sing it properly all together on the National TV.
Serge

No I wasn't "one of those" at all Mike. Fully support the war on terrorism.

And you obviously ignored what I was saying. Bush wants to go into Iraq on HIS terms and isn't going to let an offensive from Sharon screw that up. He's not gonna give Sadaam an excuse to do the situation you yourself pointed out to Cleo just a few posts ago. You bitch about him not letting Sharon go free in one breath and then ignore what i said about invading Iraq on HIS terms on the other all the while pointing out to someone else exactly the scenario that would screw up Bush's plans for the invasion on HIS terms.

As for the WWIII scenario. Hell, you just painted it out yourself. What do you think an Israeli-US offensive on the entire middle east would produce? Do you think they would prefer to keep that oil in a third party or let the US, who are their competitors as to being world powers, have it without a peep and get control of it? Might they not see that as a way to get themselves BACK into the superpower status or would they want the US to get an even bigger stranglehold of power?


TheEnforcer

In 'Deterrence', the president of the US nukes Bagdad just to show Iraq and China that we have the will to use them if pushed.

Not such a bad idea if you ask me...:)
Hank D Autolink to 500+ of your closest dearest friends

I didn't dismiss use of nukes... I can see a point where the benefit of laying a Bagdad or Tehran flat justifies that... done in the right way.. ie: with plenty of warning to all and sundry that this was going to ocurr at a certain time unless XYZ conditions are met..

I see zero benefit in military attacks on iraq right now though? What will we get out of it? Bush seems to pandering to public opinion with this popular idea that the world needs to stop Iraq priority number one... I dont agree..


Opti

Colin, I am talking about tiny nukes, less then 1 kiloton. These could be used as bunker busters.

Imagine that Iraq has nuclear/biological/chemical labs burried 100 yards underground - maybe deeper.

The only way to knock them out may be with small nukes which could create a shcokwave to collapse these strcutures.

I am not talking about the air burst 25 megaton.

if Iraw launched checmical weapons and kills 20,000 Israel citrizens - or maybe a few battalions of American Soldiers - what do you do?

If you know there is NBC weapons being prepaired in the same bunkers above - and you know they will be used if they are built, do you use first strike to knock them out - what if convential weapons are not effective?


Mike AI

The nukes are to show wwe are serious and not to have a prolonged war featuring carpet bombing
The US could send envoys to the Middle East and to aid in set up democracies
The US makes a statement to the effect "We are taking over the Middle East, you can be with us or against us" I wonder how many Middle Easterners would jump at the opportunity for democracy and free market trade. Would improve living conditions there


Vick Sorry about the tag line ;-(

I don't see the point to the nukes.

For what purpose? Why would they be necessary?
Colin Human Nature

Opti I beleive in RealPolitik as exercised by Bismark.

I think small tactical nuclear weapons could be used under certain circumstances. It is not something we should so lightly.


Mike AI

I'm on Vick's Team!

Re: "I am of the opinion the US should take over the Middle East, bomb and then occupy, that is in our best interests. At worst bomb and then set up goverments that will be friendly to the US - but those goverments may turn on the US eventually.

The Middle East has been a troubled spot for centuries, we could manage it much better and have a cheap oil supply."

Colin Human Nature

then Israel and the US might have to use nuclear weapons
********************************

That would be the prefered Ayn Rand style plan wouldn't it Mike?
Opti

God Damn Meni, Im entitled
to my own opinion.
You asked a question, I answered.
Your way to uptight lately.
Roll baby, ROOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!
:-))))

voodooman (Do you beleive I am straight?)

We are about to get slammed


http://nola.com/weather/doppler.ssf?/weather/doppler/local.html

http://www.wwltv.com/weather/pinpoint-350.html


Mike AI

Were you one of the naysayers
*********************************

probably.....
Serge

TE - first it would never happen. If it did, the war would last less then 6 months. Who could stop the US and Israel together?

Were you one of the people saying that Iraq was going to be the next vietnam - the US was going to be stuck in a quagmire and have tens of thousands of deaths, and be fighting for decades?

Were you one of the naysayers who said the US would have a hard time if Afgansitan - suffer like the Russians did. That we would haev to wait till spring to get anything done due to the cold weather, yadda yadda yadda...


6 months and the vital parts of the middle east - oil fields, and trade routes would be secured.


Mike AI

a possible WWIII scenario. Unlikely, yes. Out of the realm of possibility, no.
--------------------------------
i popped in to see whats happenin... now i am too afraid to stay. :-(

JR

Of course that is what foreign policy is. We should always do what is in our best interest.

As I posted last night, nations never have permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests.


Mike AI
Mon, 08 Apr - 11:56:41 63.100.104.52 Post #: 72749
----------------------------

And that is EXACTLY why I can see a possible WWIII scenario. Unlikely, yes. Out of the realm of possibility, no.


TheEnforcer

Vick it is not poltically correct to say, but I agree with you. It is time to consider imperialism again.
Mike AI

Voodooman, thats why you aren't a designer
MikeW pointed that out
I think he knows what he's talking about
Meni (The Golden Tongue)

I am of the opinion the US should take over the Middle East, bomb and then occupy, that is in our best interests
At worst bomb and then set up goverments that will be friendly to the US - but those goverments may turn on the US eventually

The Middle East has been a troubled spot for centuries, we could manage it much better and have a cheap oil supply


Vick Vick, cut them SHORT!

Cleo, you do not get out much from Flordia do you.
**********************************

"Why would I go out of my county? Everything I want is right here"

(--12Clicks)

hahahahahahah!
;_)))
Serge

Sharon Osbourne
****************
I have to admit, this is one of my new favorite shows :)


-----------------------------

Show?
Colin You know ...

Cleo, you do not get out much from Flordia do you. The only country in the region with Nuclear Weapons is Israel.

We are about to go to war with Iraq, to make sure they do not get nukes.

So if it makes you feel any better, all the nuking would be one way.

Now if you want something to worry about, here is a scary scenario. We invdae Iraq, Saddam knowing his time is about up starts launching scud missles with Chemical Warheads, or maybe Biological Agents like anthrax/small pox and starts lobbing them towards Israel and our troops.

There could be thousands civilians killed, then Israel and the US might have to use nuclear weapons.

:-)


Mike AI

This is a regional conflict, very little chance of going global
*******
Well when they start nuking each other I guess all that fallout just will stay other there since it is only a regional conflict.

Cleo_LinkUP (Are My Friends Electric?)

I just think that ME policy is more about what is in OUR best interests rather than who we actually agree with.

____________________________

Of course that is what foreign policy is. We should always do what is in our best interest.

As I posted last night, nations never have permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests.


Mike AI

I understand that Mike BUT like I said earlier, I don't trust countries to look at things strictly in those terms. IF a country fels they could gain some advantage by embroiling themselves into the conflict if it REALLY escalated they will. Foreign policy is often more about what's best for me rather than what is the right thing to do.


TheEnforcer

Hehe.. no bunker needed Serge. If my times up, my time is up. I just think that ME policy is more about what is in OUR best interests rather than who we actually agree with.




TheEnforcer

TE have you not seen what Israel has done in the past to its Arab neighbors?

This is a regional conflict, very little chance of going global. The arabs really do not have many allies outside the middle east.


Mike AI

TE,
build yourself a bunker
Serge

yes, I agree, what's now?
Serge

All it takes is a few missles lobbed in from Iraq if he lets Sharon loose and Bush doesn't get to go in there on his own terms. That is something I assure you that Bush doesn't want to have happen.

As for my WWIII comment, I trust countries restraint about as much as I would trust Jack the Ripper in the red light district of Amsterdam!! It doesn't take much to look at a situation like that and look for ways to try and make it play to your countries advantage to get involved. We may be the world's only remaining super power but I have ZERO doubt if countries thought they could take us down a few notches or elevate themselves a few they would eagerly get involved in a conflict in the Middle East.


TheEnforcer

From what I have learned by digging deep into USC 2257 and looking at Title 18, which is at the crux of the issue, I found that, at that time a physical address is the best they could do. But in reality, no one has a physical address for very long. We are a mobile society moving about all the time. The most stable address would be a Web Address using a domain that is registered to an individual or corporation. Since the two years that I started SoBeGirl I have moved two times and changed studios once. How am I supposed to update all the digital files, VHS tapes and documents for each move? It is problematic to say the least. But my web address has not changed once.

Do you agree?

http://www.sobegirl.com/articles/keeping_up.htm


The Producer SoBeCams - The Feed with T1 Speed - Only 99 Bucks

Enforcer - WWIII? Getting apocoliptic on us?

If Israel wanted to conquer the entire middle east, they could easily do it with not much help.

If Israel was the bad guys, they would be looking to seize Saudi oil fields, and build themselves an empire. All of the arab countries together could not stop them.

WWIII.... maybe during the 60-70-80s... but there is only 1 world super power right now. Both Russian and China could not do anything about a war in the middle east.

It is time to clean house in the middle east... there has never been the political will power or demand from the the US population - but after Spet 11, that has changed. It has changed in Israel too - where they were more then willing to trade land for peace - after hundreds of civilians have been murdered by suicide bombers - they too are learning the only way to stop it is to conquer their enemies.

Has anyone noticed there has not been 1 suicide bombing, or 1 civilian killed in Israel since they started their offensive.

The gov't owes it to their citizens to live safe and peaceful lives. If a gov't cannot protect their people, then it should be replaced - for their is no soverignty.


Mike AI

Now, as to why we don't just say "Sharon, have at it!", it's really quite simple. You do that and we don't get to invade Iraq ON OUR TERMS! Not to mention it is the ONE way most people can envision a WWIII scenario to start to play out if the region gets too far out of control.


TheEnforcer

Meni, they look nothing
alike, and besides, yours
pops more windows.
:-))))
voodooman (Do you beleive I am straight?)

We are still (thanks to Mr. Daschle, et al) dependent upon Middle East Oil;
-------------------------
ROFMFAO!! That's a VERY amusing statement there. Don't think I've laughed that hard in a VERY long time!!


TheEnforcer

Dan I kept looking around the party for someone really really tall. Never could find you. I know why now.

There will be future events!


Mike AI

hey, sorry to miss the boil:(( just wasnt meant to be, did spend the day yesterday at the lake with the sweety, so in all it was a good weekend.

I really hope to make it down there soon, i really want to meet mike,serge and the gang and visit the big easy....

anyhow, thanks mike for the invite, I hope i'll get another one day soon.
dantheman

I just noticed that the date on my camera defaulted back to 1/1/1999.
I told you it was the battery and not my photography ability!

:-)
sharky Where Billy Likes to play!

Billy -

We already have good New Orleans food in Tampa, we have Copelands!

:-)

lol. I did learn the tricks, I even saw the brand of the special spices you used!

Only Emi knows the true seasoning I used on my steaks! She was nice enough to coach me on how to cook Serge's steaks!

:-)

MikeAI - The offer goes both ways:-)
sharky Where Billy Likes to play!

hmmmm
http://www.julierage.com/Porn-Star/freelivesexshows.htm
compare to
http://www.clubjenna.com
Meni (The Golden Tongue) XXX ATM

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/bomb/sfeature/blastmap.html
grimm (Blow Me)

Morning Oprano :)
Nickatilynx (The Internet's No1 Crook, CERTIFIED!)

Mutt when you have a chance e-mail me ....


Mike AI

The reason the British jumped into the fight in Afghanistan right away is simple: 80% of the heroin that goes into the UK comes straight from Afghanistan.

The Taliban took control of the heroin trade and were recently dumping it into the market (to raise more money), lowering prices and therefor increasing consumption in the UK....


PaulSweet yup, you know its Sweet, the dumb fuck who can't put link back to Oprano

Peaches, you should play "The Osbournes" drinking game..at the beginning of the show, you pick a charcater...when that character says "fuck" you take a drink...if you choose Ozzy, Sharon, Jack or Kellie, you should be drunk by the first commercial break...if you're a whimp like my wife, you'll choose the nanny or the neighborhood security guard...


"Bubbles? Sharon, I can't have bubbles. I'm the prince of fucking darkness..."
SykkBoy

Mike just wanted to tell you that I had a great time and having Edd help made the day GREAT !!

Sharky remember the secrets of the boil are a family secret I don't want to hear about Sharky's New Orleans Seafood in Tampa anytime soon : )

Serge next time let's just go back to the Vodka !!

Las Vegas on Friday.. Pornoman get ready !!


Billy (Oprano Sergeant at Arms) Sucking Heads and Pinching Tails !

Sharky it was our pleasure, always enjoy ya'lls company. You guys have an open invitation - ANYTIME you want.


Mike AI

lol.

Crystal asked me to tell you thank you for inviting us. We really did have a good time:-)
sharky I am a BBQ King!!

HAHA Yeah if anyone tried attacking me or fleeing on ATVs, Amsel would put an end to them!

I am working on her tire biting.
Mike AI

I was debating whether or not i should put it online MikeAI, but I figured what the hell.

lol.

The dog that Brad gave you was a trip. He loved to prevent people from moving on the ATV's. lol.
sharky I am a BBQ King!!

Yup Peaches.

When you laugh your ass off at somebody changing the garbage bags, you know something is up. Ozzy is the best.

Monk

Serge,
That, too.;}}}

Grimm,
Actually, I was thinking of certain other people (France, Syria, Jordan, and don't forget our everlovin' homegrown peaceniks).
Torone (screw 'politically correct')

Sharon Osbourne
****************
I have to admit, this is one of my new favorite shows :)

Peaches

"Vick is the lesbian. Weren't you in Vegas?
Colin Day 3. The locals are even brave enough to call it "Sin City". "
Hey I resemble that remark ;-)


Vick "Sometimes I suspect that we are already on this 'other side of the looking glass,' where the images are inverted and the faster we run the 'behinder' we get" (Herman Daly)

"Ariel Sharon or Sharon Osbourne?"

Sharon Osbourne could take care of business over there.... just launch honey-baked hams at the Palestinians all day long.


Monk

Brad has done many things right... you have to remember where Brad came from. He has made quantum leaps, in a very tough market, and I am proud to call him my friend!


Mike AI

Well, at least he did something right...
;-)))
Serge

puppy???
she tried sticking her tongue in my mouth!!!
I wonder who taught her that trick!?
;-)))

_______________________

I think Brad had that training added to go with executive protection!


Mike AI

Ariel Sharon or Sharon Osbourne?
Colin Click Here if yer a Geek

Amsel is a great puppy!


Mike AI
***************************

puppy???
she tried sticking her tongue in my mouth!!!
I wonder who taught her that trick!?
;-)))

Serge

That is a funny photos Sharky, I am sure Katie is happy you posted it! haha

I hope Brad enjoys seeing photo of the dog he gave me.... Amsel is a great puppy!


Mike AI

I think Bush is telling Sharon to withdraw in front of the TV and certain world leaders, while at the same time winking at Sharon letting him know that we understand he has business to handle.

If it was so important, we would have sent Powell there last week - immediately. We are dragging our feet so Israel can finish up its operations.

I personally wish Bush would just say we support Israels right to stamo out terrorists. But it seems certain countries want us to be poltically correct.


Mike AI

http://www.aaaadultdesign.com/pics/boil_2002/

I finally got the pics up! Enjoy!

I think this is the funniest by far:
http://www.aaaadultdesign.com/pics/boil_2002/pages/P0001079.htm

:-))
sharky I am a BBQ King!!

Hi all. I'm relatively new to the adult market. Looking for good upsellers or other free content. Anythoughts....good experiences or bad? How bout plugins which charge per GB (i.e. not in $250-500 blocks, but based on actual usage.)
JohnnieTheGeek

http://www.dotmusic.com/news//April2002/news24557.asp
more proof that the world is coming to an end........
SykkBoy

Oh look, Stuart has spammed this board in addition to the one I was just at.

Cleo (dysfunctional)

Anyone wanting to charge there surfers by Mobile Phone, check out : http://www.Reverse-Spams.com/

Thanks
Stu
Stuart I am a stupid fuck spammer! VERY STUPID!!!!

You don't have to twist my arm, Serge - Verdana is one of my favorite fonts! (yes, I'm a typeface geek! LOL!)

No problem Wig - shoot me an email at ed@oprano.com and I'll get the advert template off to you today! Glad you and your crew had a good time at the Boil!
Edd (Opranautical Engineer)

"USA demanding Israel to withdraw form West Bank.
How come nobody demands USA to withdraw from Afganistan?

1. 'cuz we want oil from the middle east.

2. 'cuz US is a superpower and often people will listen.

I know you knoew the answers already tho.

Monk

Good morning all,
I see politics is the topic this fine morning. :)
Serge do tell us what you really think? eh ;)


Blondy

personally, this whole mess is gettin' kinda' biblical.
makes me nervous..
runk got gay traffic? Send it here!

Edd,

Just a reminder to send me the template
and the sizes for the upcoming banner
changes.

Look forward to seeing you again! ;-)
Wig Everything you need to know about Checks!

Edd
You may want to take a look at what I did on my board. In addiction to the stylesheet I edited the lib.output.php

Cleo (dysfunctional)

Ed, nothing wrong was with the ORIGINAL one...and if it ain't broken...
;-))
Serge