The Hun bans Paycounter. sorry KC

[Vick]

Sorry I have only read 10 words in this thread and the obviously best things for Paysite owners to do is

GET RID OF TGP'S PERMANENTLY - they encourage leeches, turned paying customers into freeloaders and provide porn for underage users and others without means of paying

regrettably for at least a little while more they are here to stay

Here come look at my TGP, we give away 10,000+ free pictures everyday
and we don't let our gallery makers put more than one ad up and they pics have to be good quality and of a certain size



Shemp - nothing personal, only business - you seem like a great intelligent guy and have the respect of many (except you operate TGP's)

Do you have any idea how much more money you would have made over the past 3-4 years if you and many other's like you didn't give away an abundance of free porn?

Want to see titties pull out your credit card surfer? No Credit Card - bank account, phone billing - oh ... underage - well get off my bandwidth and go look at legal pics of Britney or something

and Shemp to prove my point, you personally can not make earn more than $50 per day from the top spot on your TGP, how many hits does that gallery you sell for $1500 a month get a day?

http://www.sexlist.com/?catid=
If I'm reading correctly your sexlist stats say you've done over 313,261 just today to that page, so someone paying $50 for one of your prime spots may get let's say 30,000 clicks and they send maybe 10,000 clicks to the sponsor
so they have to do 1 in 10,000 (or a little better to be profitable)

am guessing you weren't doing that so selling the spots became a better business model (which I can respest and admire)

Furthermore
Your add says!!!
The New Shemp, an Original TGP. Free Porn for the People!

Why do you tell people porn is free
NO NO NO
NO FUCKING FREE PORN, what are you, up for the porn sainthood?
You got to pay to play


I really hope you are a millionaire a few times over, if not you could have been

and again - nothing personal - only business

and I'd don't care to hear from the TGP peanut gallery but Shemp and sites like his have cost many hundred's of thousands if not millions of dollars and have been one of the primary reasons for the decline in the adult on-line porn industry

[Nickatilynx]

Why do you tell people porn is free
NO NO NO
NO FUCKING FREE PORN, what are you, up for the porn sainthood?
You got to pay to play

I Vick

[JR]

Why is it that so many people claim to have great conversions with TGP traffic... and so many others think that TGP's are the cause of all evil and everything that is wrong with adult? I have always found that to be pretty amusing. There are a pretty big descrepency in opinions and clearly people are still making a lot of money. I never see 100 people crying "thats not possible" when someone says "i am doing 1:500 with this gallery on The Hun"... on GFY. That tells me something.

You cannot put the genie back in the bottle Vick, no matter how much you might wish to. All you can do is out think and outwork the rest of the idiots out there. Anyone that thinks that is too tough... is in the wrong business in my opinion. I see a lot of morons making money today. Just as many morons as there always has been. If anything, there are more.

You cannot stop free content or stop people from using the word "Free". The word "free" is a mainstay of marketing both online and off. It's one of those magic words that grabs people attention that leads to SALES. The market will decide the business models. That is how a free market works. People follow business models that work. Thats how a free market evolves.

Porn hit the web, surfers were ignorant, money was easy and so many people lament about the "good ole days"... rather than understanding that every business evolves and it's up to the businessmen to evolve just as fast or be left behind. Those getting left behind today are complaining that everyone should be working together to turn back the clock as if that was possible. You can't make surfers ignorant and innexperienced again. You can only understand them and improve how you sell to them. They are your market.

just an opinion.

[Nickatilynx]

Originally posted by JR@Jul 5 2004, 04:01 PM
Why is it that so many people claim to have great conversions with TGP traffic... and so many others think that TGP's are the cause of all evil and everything that is wrong with adult? I have always found that to be pretty amusing. There are a pretty big descrepency in opinions and clearly people are still making a lot of money. I never see 100 people crying "thats not possible" when someone says "i am doing 1:500 with this gallery on The Hun"... on GFY. That tells me something.

You cannot put the genie back in the bottle Vick, no matter how much you might wish to. All you can do is out think and outwork the rest of the idiots out there. Anyone that thinks that is too tough... is in the wrong business in my opinion. I see a lot of morons making money today. Just as many morons as there always has been. If anything, there are more.

You cannot stop free content or stop people from using the word "Free". The word "free" is a mainstay of marketing both online and off. It's one of those magic words that grabs people attention that leads to SALES. The market will decide the business models. That is how a free market works. People follow business models that work. Thats how a free market evolves.

Porn hit the web, surfers were ignorant, money was easy and so many people lament about the "good ole days"... rather than understanding that every business evolves and it's up to the businessmen to evolve just as fast or be left behind. Those getting left behind today are complaining that everyone should be working together to turn back the clock as if that was possible. You can't make surfers ignorant and innexperienced again. You can only understand them and improve how you sell to them. They are your market.

just an opinion.

I JR













What can I say , my opinions can change ;-)))

[Rolo]

If the adult industry had used the same amount on lawyers in 1996-1997 as we do today, then I´m sure we could have killed the TGP business before it took off, but this was not how we as an industry choosed to deal with it back then, and now in 2004 free porn is here to stay...

However that doesn´t mean that we are doomed into a neverending battle between free porn and paid porn - we need to refocus on our own business model, have TGPs be part of the paid porn business by making them depended on revenue and fresh content from paid porn, and to take more control of the marketing. This is how paid porn will take control of the free porn again - not by the use of lawyers, or politicians, but by the use of $$$ and creative minds.

[*KK*]

ANY traffic can be converted into money. It's just a matter of whether or not the ROI makes it worth it.

I know a couple of guys from Victoria that have been the top resellers for both Maxcash and ARS, using purchased Hun spots. Of course you also have the people that can't pay their bandwidth bill when they get a Hun listing.

At the end of the day, it just is what it is. There's no one right way to to do this or there would be one program, one link list, one tgp, one billing company, etc.

[Nickatilynx]

KK,

Very true post.....

I think I gave them money back (shudders) ;-))

However , what with adult sponsors shaving and everything else....

I'm hoping to either fail or bail in the next couple of months and corner "Traffic"...it can be non-adult or adult.

Few mainstream people will take adult.

[Vick]

JR - you're right, the genie doesn't go back into th bottle
so all we do is make the most $ we can hoping for the TGP movement to fall under it's own weight - Also while we move into other more profitable/enjoyable industries

also JR, many bullshit in this business? Who's really going to have the balls to say I lost money on the TGP spots I bought boo-hoo-hoo - think that's what you're really going to hear?

and the $ you're talking abut being made today doesn't compare what what was made in 1997-2001 - you know it and I know it

and I am one of the stupidest companies/webmaster ever by not saving/investing enough during that time to retire - so yes I somewhat deserve a retard tag, never thought the $ would stop rolling in

The vacations, house, cars and clothes, dinners, furnishing, theater and so on and so on were all very nice (many others were rumored to have pissed away their $ on dope or women or what have you, at least I got some substantial things)

I was too fucking stupid to read about, study and understand new market economies, it was all here for me to study, the Gold Rush, the Industrial Revolution, Radio, Movies, TV

So while I will piss on what I perceive to be some of the causes of the decline of revenue generation from the adult on-line industry I know I bought my own share of it as well


Read what I posted before. TGP owners do not earn a fraction of what they possibly could - no one can reasonably or logically dispute that



MOST/MANY TGP's do not depend on Sponsor Programs for the bulk of their income - they could not convert well enough to maintain reasonable profit margins so they went to selling gallery spots (which I must admit is a gr4eat way to monetize) but how long until those buying gallery spots can convert well enough to be profitable (I've expected it to happen sooner than now so ....)

So basically the TGP's really don't have to care about the sponsor or conversions, they have to PT Barnum and wait for the sucker to be born every minute

When that happens TGP's will need a new revenue generation model or they may go under

Truth be told, TGP'S and paysite no longer work together, TGP'S are the actual enemy of the Paysite - more so that P2P networks and Newsgroups

[JR]

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 5 2004, 05:39 PM

and the $ you're talking abut being made today doesn't compare what what was made in 1997-2001 - you know it and I know it

-----------------

Truth be told, TGP'S and paysite no longer work together, TGP'S are the actual enemy of the Paysite - more so that P2P networks and Newsgroups

KK said:
"I know a couple of guys from Victoria that have been the top resellers for both Maxcash and ARS, using purchased Hun spots"

sounds like TGP's and paysites work pretty well together to me.

Sykk is doing 1:200 with hun traffic and non-nude sites. Sounds pretty 97'ish to me. In fact MANY people do quite well with TGP traffic while others say right now, today that it is a complete waste of time. Many people do quite well listing the same thing in the same TGP that others claim is a waste of time.

I don't share your optimism that TGP's will go away. I don't think they will. I am also VERY comfortable with the fact that I can reach out with a few paid link spots or banners and reach a few million people looking for what I have to sell. It's my job to always be good at closing the deal and to stay ahead of the curve.

Where are you going to get your traffic when TGP's go away? Everyone is going to do whatever works best and any shift will happen with the industry as a whole. If the new hot thing is creating yahoo groups... in a matter of weeks there will be too many Yahoo groups to make it worth while. Whatever happens in the future and with whatever changes may come, the basic problems will ALWAYS remain the same...
That is that some will adjust, adapt, overcome and effectively compete as people are today with making money with TGP's and many will just quietly fade away complaining that someone, or something else is the problem and the reason for thier failure. It is always your choice as to which of those people you will become.

Truth be told, TGP'S and paysite no longer work together, TGP'S are the actual enemy of the Paysite - more so that P2P networks and Newsgroups

They are working quite well for a lot of people. Sykk is a good example. There are countless others.

KK said "I know a couple of guys from Victoria that have been the top resellers for both Maxcash and ARS, using purchased Hun spots"

sounds like TGP's and paysites work pretty well together still.

[gonzo]

The TGP illiterate have spoken!

[masterp74]

so are there any counters out there that just count views and clicks? nothing more, no ads, no dialers, no toolbars, no spyware, no sport scores updates. JUST A FUCKING COUNTER?????



no need to pay me .05 cents a click.

[gonzo]

Originally posted by Rolo@Jul 5 2004, 07:48 PM
If the adult industry had used the same amount on lawyers in 1996-1997 as we do today, then I´m sure we could have killed the TGP business before it took off, but this was not how we as an industry choosed to deal with it back then, and now in 2004 free porn is here to stay...

However that doesn´t mean that we are doomed into a neverending battle between free porn and paid porn - we need to refocus on our own business model, have TGPs be part of the paid porn business by making them depended on revenue and fresh content from paid porn, and to take more control of the marketing. This is how paid porn will take control of the free porn again - not by the use of lawyers, or politicians, but by the use of $$$ and creative minds.

Best analogy Ive seen in this thread is that TGPs are to the adult world what free programming is to television. A vehicle to sell advertsing.

I can tell you Shemp isnt here to justify or defend the existance of TGPs but rather to hopefully work better together within the industry.

And Ill restate it again...like it or not. TGPs remain one of the last EASY ways of getting any traffic to your programs.

[*KK*]

Originally posted by masterp74@Jul 5 2004, 06:21 PM
so are there any counters out there that just count views and clicks? nothing more, no ads, no dialers, no toolbars, no spyware, no sport scores updates. JUST A FUCKING COUNTER?????



no need to pay me .05 cents a click.

Um, hello, that's what server stats are for.

[Vick]

Well gentlemen we have a very large difference of opinions on TGP's

But the bottom line question will always remain

Would we all make more money if TGP's didn't exist (as well as the glut of free porn)?
No need for long drawn out explanations or justifications

Just a simple yes or no?



and there is much I personally disagree with being posted here and I feel I have given some reasonable examples (and some of the comebacks haven't even scratched the real issues $$$$$$)

Differrent strokes for different folks and so on and son and scoobie doobie doobie

[*KK*]

If it hadn't been tgps, it would have been something else Vick, that's the nature of evolution.

[Rolo]

Originally posted by gonzo@Jul 5 2004, 06:26 PM
Best analogy Ive seen in this thread is that TGPs are to the adult world what free programming is to television. A vehicle to sell advertsing.

Yes, and as a advertising vehicle, then they will hopefully evolve into better understanding/balance between free and pay. I think having Shemp and Vick here is good - the debate would be boring without some different perspective

We are currently working on programming features, which will make us better at converting/retaining each unique TGP´s traffic (the demographics can be very different at tgps), however that doesn´t mean that TGPs should stop working/improving their own traffic - making it more focused on buying/consuming.

Some TGPs are good at working with their traffic, however many hurt their traffic by trying to protect surfers from ads, and overfeeding them with hardcore content. Others are just standing still waiting for some input - ex.:

- why is it that TGPs still have rules about pics/videos not being on html, but must be directly linked from the main page of the gallery - sure if you trust your paysite partner or submiter, then it would not hurt the surfer to watch the pic/video on page with ads to the paysite?

- why use the word "free" on the TGPs, when we want people to "pay" - if TGPs owners are right about smart surfers, then surfers already know its free, so why keep reminding them? Its like saying "hey, you are stupid if you pay".

- why list video galleries with several minutes of videos, when 3 * 10 sec is enough for a surfer to get a feel of the content - do we want him to click more galleries on the TGP or go to the paysite, then it won´t happen if he has already cummed.

- why list galleries with little creativity, which shows ALL to surfers, but leaves little to the imagination (ex. cumshot/moneyshot) - porn is a fantasy, not a animal planet documentary, we do not see hollywood putting their "plots" in the trailers.

- why have a advertising vehicle, where the driver of the vehicle do not communicate with his AND potential advertisers... advertisers might have some constructive feedback based on experience working with other advertising vehicles

[Rolo]

Originally posted by Vick@Jul 5 2004, 07:23 PM
Would we all make more money if TGP's didn't exist (as well as the glut of free porn)?
No need for long drawn out explanations or justifications

Just a simple yes or no?

Yes

[masterp74]

Originally posted by *KK*+Jul 5 2004, 06:36 PM-->