Are Trade Shows a thing of the past?

[Toby]

Maybe nation-x will pop in and address the music volume issue since it was his program launch party that they were performing at.

The costs for everything at Internext has been out of hand for some time now and probably the biggest reason I quit attending that show. The 'playas' all want someplace nice to go, which is fine, but they can go do their own thing in Curacao or Barcelona or wherever.

There are still opportunities for sponsors to provide free badges without making them free to everyone. Mojohost did just exactly that at Internext. If you signed up in advance to take their data center tour they paid for your show badge.

[gonzo]

I have always promoted the show on this board once I bought it.
Cybernet with its flaws has always been approachable - didnt matter if it was Fay or Jay they have always been reasonable.

Fay Sharp started this show out to be more about the business and less about the music. Granted the locations have been on the cheaper side but the shows in San Diego and Tampa were some of my best networking times.

Seminars were always stuffed full of people taking notes, taping and etc.

Theres usually something there to learn even if its not in a seminar room.
The show has attracted many program owners that do get it and spend a lot of one on one time with affiliates to forge a better working arrangement.

I said it before and was ignored so Ill say it again here so it doesnt get glossed over... you can see the difference in the philosophy of these shows before and after by reading.

You will have Jay out looking for the best topics for a panel and the right people to get on them, while you have Alec trolling for the play list for the music by the pool and all Ive seen out of Chris is "I love you man ... we will see you in the same places at the same time in 2010 ... wanna free ticket?."

In the past Kathee Brewer and MJ were repairing these seminars like with the NATS demo. They both understand this business tried their best. Both are no longer with the company and now as Mike said we have Hirsch wanting to telling us how to build websites. Stick to hiring geniuses like AlienQ - your made for each other.

Now Alec pretty much plays for a grandstand like now where hes inviting Fishbien to come into a public dialog with him. Like was said to me earlier - if he really wanted to get it done they would already be working it out in private.

The free market will sort all of this out soon enough. Right now the main event for many of these shows has been the Porn Poker tour which is now looking for a better ROI. I can recall several nights in Miami in the past when thats the only thing that ws going on.

How will they attract people there coming to hear 2LiveCrew with nothing to do in the evenings?

We did a bit on clusterfuck theater where we called and goofed on the staff of the hotel. they told us that there was a lottery for employees to work there during Internext. Im wondering if that will hold true for next year?

[DannyCox]

In my previous life as an Engineer in Aerospace & Defence, I attended a number of Industry Trade Shows. They were all run basically the same. These shows include the SAMPE show (Society For The Advancement Of Material And Process Engineering), the SME show (Society Of Mechanical Engineers), as well as a couple of other directly related to Aeronautical Engineering for Materials and Processes.

The seminars were not just throw togethers with panels of friends. Six months before a show, there was a "Call For Papers" where people interested in presenting would submit a brief on what they wanted to talk about. Those papers were looked at by a panel of experts, and then short-listed. Those who made the first cut were contacted, and had two months to submit a complete paper on the subject at hand. Those were then gone through, and the final people for the various seminars were selected. I presented a paper at the October 1992 SAMPE Technical Conference entitled "Materials And Process Optimization For Dual-Shell Satellite Antenna Reflectors". I gave a brief on it at the conference and took questions. Everyone had the paper in their hands the day the conference started, so they could go through it and come up with informed questions or comments. All I received for presenting my paper was a free show badge which saved my company about $500.

Real Trade Shows are well thought out affairs, with applicable seminars and show floors that truly cater to those in attendance. They are not about "friends" or the "old boys" networks. They exist to serve the industry, give the suppliers a place to promote applicable wares, and to inform through relevant and proper seminars. And of course, there are cocktail parties put on by the various suppliers. But no one runs around being stupid or getting drunk as everyone there is not only representing themselves but their companies. At a Trade Show, there is no down time, you are always on and always working.

I've never seen a huge party at any of the Trade Shows I've attended in my other industries. There was always a sponsored welcome cocktail party, cocktail parties held by various suppliers in different suites, and a closing cocktail party. That was it for "parties". Dinners were all smaller affairs and meant for work and networking. Suppliers were open to snealing away with you for a beer, but it was still all about business. The thing we knew about Trade Shows was they were there to learn and work, not party. Many guys that were friends would leave in the evening to party it up away from the conference hotel, but no one would ever make an ass of himself amongst his peers. That would kill your career there and then!

I also did a few publishing Trade Shows when I was in university and working for the newspaper. Those were basically the same with applicable show floors and seminars.

That really is the reason I stopped going to shows, they were an embarrassment! If I want to drink and party, I can do that close to home. If I want to travel to party, well, I'll do it as a holiday. To me, a Trade Show is about work and I do try to treat it as such. Our industry shows tend to have totally useless seminars done with no preparation or planning, and given by people without the requisite experience! I've honestly yet to hear anything useful at a show seminar, it's all been about "Buy My Shit!".

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by Toby

Maybe nation-x will pop in and address the music volume issue since it was his program launch party that they were performing at.

Hes on a cruise and didnt attend Internext either.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

That really is the reason I stopped going to shows, they were an embarrassment! If I want to drink and party, I can do that close to home. If I want to travel to party, well, I'll do it as a holiday. To me, a Trade Show is about work and I do try to treat it as such. Our industry shows tend to have totally useless seminars done with no preparation or planning, and given by people without the requisite experience! I've honestly yet to hear anything useful at a show seminar, it's all been about "Buy My Shit!".

I guess we work different. I know when I attended Comdex or InterOp it was all about work. Not getting drunk to sleep by the ocean or cramming 3 people into one room in order to be able to afford a couple of beers out of the mini bar.

But hey what do I know? Im unemployeed right?

[Mediaguy]

To get back to the question: Are Trade Shows a Thing of the Past?

I don't think they are. But they will have to remodel themselves and drop out of the "more bling is more bucks" attitude that made the Vegas Internext shows something to stay away from.

Originally Posted by Cleo

I didn't get the incredibly loud 2 Live Crew pool music. It wasn't just that I don't care for Hip Hop. It was so loud that my teeth were vibrating. Talking, as in trying to network, was impossible. I don't know... maybe I've just gotten old but it seems like the music should be kept down to a level that allows people to talk to each other.

Has nothing to do with age... I was at that show, and that to me was a complete waste of networking time as well. Big loud boom-boom parties in clubs are the worst example of tradeshow overspending and wastes of time I can think of.

We learned from our own office parties at trade shows by overspending on a split up of space: one for dancing/party and one for talking/networking. Had a big light show and overpriced DJ at the back, and subdued mellow shop-talk room at the front... guess which paid off?

The back room was empty most of the night, but our front room was packed... shows are for schmoozing. You can stay home and be blinded and deafened at a disco for less, if that's what you're into.

But create an atmosphere where disparate people can connect, meet face-to-face often for the first time, network and trade ideas, and you have a success.

The tradeshows will just have to lean down and get back to the business of business if they want to survive, and we'll all profit from that. I myself am looking forward to the newer "old" formats :P

Dos centavos.

[tony404]

also if its business why does there have to be loud parties, excessive drinking and half naked models. Most of us look at naked chicks all day long whether its shooting them or looking on a screen. Its like it doesnt make you cool to have a bunch of paid girls half naked at a show its a waste of time and money. I think you took those things out you would have a much smaller show but a much more serious one.

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by tony404

also if its business why does there have to be loud parties, excessive drinking and half naked models. Most of us look at naked chicks all day long whether its shooting them or looking on a screen. Its like it doesnt make you cool to have a bunch of paid girls half naked at a show its a waste of time and money. I think you took those things out you would have a much smaller show but a much more serious one.

Yeah, but no passed out ball hanger pictures. That is the entire best memory of Internext.

[AdorableAudrey]

As an indie paysite owner I've felt a little out of place at the shows I've been to so far (Internext & Xbiz in Vegas), they definitely don't feel like they cater to small business owners like myself. I have enjoyed the connections I've made and picked up some valuable information at the shows but I have to say that private get-togethers and content shooting meets are a much better use of my travel dollars and time usually.

Then again without going to them I never would have met Gonzo and got to bowl naked at his party, which is a memory I will cherish forever even though it totally supports what you guys are saying about useless drunken antics instead of business...

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by AdorableAudrey

As an indie paysite owner I've felt a little out of place at the shows I've been to so far (Internext & Xbiz in Vegas), they definitely don't feel like they cater to small business owners like myself. I have enjoyed the connections I've made and picked up some valuable information at the shows but I have to say that private get-togethers and content shooting meets are a much better use of my travel dollars and time usually.

Then again without going to them I never would have met Gonzo and got to bowl naked at his party, which is a memory I will cherish forever even though it totally supports what you guys are saying about useless drunken antics instead of business...

That was a suite party and the company was glad to have everyone that showed up. Several people were bowling nekkid that night too but I can say no one passed out there.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by gonzo

That was a suite party and the company was glad to have everyone that showed up. Several people were bowling nekkid that night too but I can say no one passed out there.

I know some people would pay big money for the gonzo, hellpuppy naked bowling pics. lol

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by tony404

I know some people would pay big money for the gonzo, hellpuppy naked bowling pics. lol

Violation - Thats a Violation of the hairy ass rule.

[housekeeper]

Good thread and some interesting viewpoints, I'd like to see companies offering more software or equipment as well, but as was pointed out not quite feasible. The first show I went to was in Chicago circa 1985, it was actually a CES show and the porn section was kind of like an addendum to the electronics show. Is that not how the shows were born, out of CES shows which were originally in Vegas, I think?

Anyhow, hope the low attendance is just a passing fancy. Like many others I have attended trade shows for years in a myriad of industries, it's always a beautiful thing when human interaction is involved...

[RawAlex]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Violation - Thats a Violation of the hairy ass rule.

I just don't want to see what the NFL referee signal would be for that one.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by tony404

I know some people would pay big money for the gonzo, hellpuppy naked bowling pics. lol

Optometrists might pay....as it would cause people to claw their eyes and generate a lot of biz for 'em....

You couldn't really see much of anything for the hair anyway.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by tony404

also if its business why does there have to be loud parties, excessive drinking and half naked models. Most of us look at naked chicks all day long whether its shooting them or looking on a screen. Its like it doesnt make you cool to have a bunch of paid girls half naked at a show its a waste of time and money. I think you took those things out you would have a much smaller show but a much more serious one.

Arguments can be made in name of branding and taking care of your best customers for the drinking and girls. But I absolutely agree about the music volume. There's no business being done AT ALL if the volume is so loud you cant have a conversation.

I've come home with a sore throat more times than I can count just from trying to talk at a club party.

[brand0n]

2livecrew...

please.

im sorry but im not dropping 2k to go to a show that the main focus of is "2livecrew" and thepornpokertour.

if i want ignorant hip-hop i can visit any of the night clubs in the area and jam all night to "me so horny" for 100 bucks.

i go to a weekly poker game, costs me 50 bucks.

so, i in a nutshell have the highlights of this show for 150 dollars and do so in a local area.

i personally have bitched about the shows so many times that i think they hate me. they got greedy as fuck, and figured that there wasent a bottom for them to hit. that litterly the sky was the limit and the could keep going and going.

well i think that this show should clearly demonstrate that is not the case.

[MRock]

Never been to any trade show for adult. I can not comment about how they have been run or organized. I DO KNOW that I was told years ago ( 1999-2000 ) it was a waste of time by several other amateur webmasters, so we never worried about going. What does that say about how things were run???

On a related note, we used to go to many amateur web girl meetings here in Florida. One of my favs was a party hosted by Honez in Daytona. Ideas were exchanged, photo shoots done or arranged and they were awesome fun and productive. They have all but disappeared now ... have not been to one of those since the 9/11 fall of the web ...

[tony404]

I find I get more at dinners like we all did sat. And I agree hellpuppy the music is nuts, we didnt go back sun to the atl forum because my voice was gone. As far as branding I have been to a few things sponsored by the big boys, I never used their product or pushed their service. To me its much more powerful, I come on here ask people their thoughts and buy a product based on that. Then who bought drinks and naked girls. Maybe I have been in adult too long over 25 yrs, to me its a business nothing more. The cool look at the naked chicks lost its luster a long time ago.

[Hell Puppy]

I've continued to think about this, and I think it all starts with the attendees. And with the show operators, the type of show you put on dictates what type of attendee you draw.

Somewhere along the way, almost all of the adult industry shows became party shows. I think a lot of that is because that's what attendees came to expect. The attendees were going to see friends and business partners, have some good meals, go out to the clubs and in some cases maybe get wide and snort something off a strippers ass.

Deals done were incidental as the real work was always done by email and icq back at the office anyway. You might meet someone new, hear an idea, but the shows were social. In many cases the sponsors were there to entertain their best traffic providers just to make sure someone else didn't buy 'em toot and hookers and lure away those clicks.

This all worked well and good when the web was full of newbs who would easily part with their credit cards and sign up. Insane amounts of money were flying all over.

Fast forward to now. The money isn't there on either side. ROI is king.

So what are the attendees who still have money to go to shows today looking for? I think there are a lot of answers in these threads, let's see who acts upon it.

Personally, I'd like to do maybe 3 shows next year. I dont do drugs of any kind. I dont do hookers. I will drink socially, but I can afford to buy my own good booze instead of whatever is in the well. Though i can be suckered in with a really good meal. I do like to learn new things, and I am always on look out for new business however.

[RawAlex]

The shows face a real weird problem:

If there aren't a whole ass load of parties, nobody seems to want to show up. If they have the parties, people show up, party all night, are useless all day, and the only time you meet anyone is when they are too drunk and the music is too loud.

No ROI on that one.

[Hell Puppy]

Originally Posted by RawAlex

The shows face a real weird problem:

If there aren't a whole ass load of parties, nobody seems to want to show up. If they have the parties, people show up, party all night, are useless all day, and the only time you meet anyone is when they are too drunk and the music is too loud.

No ROI on that one.

True if you target the guys looking to party.

I think there is a grossly underserved market of business people, especially small business operators, contained within the adult industry. The same guys the bro's and ballers have always made fun of ironically.

Either way, the shows have to get "right sized". Shows drawing 3000 or more people are done. Shows drawing 300 might very well be done.

[C H R I S 2.0]

For anyone who thinks that adult trade shows are done- I suggest you attend Adult Novelty Expo along with several other very populas shows.We had over 150 exhibtiors at ANE.

AEE is still going strong, albeit not as strong as it has been in the past - but still strong.

Before you start name calling I suggest you look within at your own business to see what you can do to improve- as I will be doing the same.

[C H R I S 2.0]

Oh and Gonzo - i fully respect your opinions and realize that you were close with MJ and Cat. Cat is still writing for us as is tom hymes who I also hae the utmost respect for.

Obviosly I need to earn your trust - I hope I can do so in the future.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by avnchris

Oh and Gonzo - i fully respect your opinions and realize that you were close with MJ and Cat. Cat is still writing for us as is tom hymes who I also hae the utmost respect for.

Obviosly I need to earn your trust - I hope I can do so in the future.

Im easy Chris.
Return my call / ICQ / email when Im asking for details about a show that Im responsible for overseeing.

I really didnt know Monty that well but he was open and professional to me the entire time he was with your company. MJ being gone is a loss.

I dont know Tom very well either but I found him of the utmost level of professionalism when he moderated the panel I was on in Vegas. He was very prepared and talked to the issues. Rare. Ya scored on this readdition.

Kathee I have to admit I have known for several years and she should be writing for several tech and adult magazines as she is both knowledgeable and professional about any subject she takes on. You guys should pay her more and listen to her about repairing the mess the magazine is in as well as the website.

I cant remember when I went to AVNonline for any news.
Outside of my own sources my first stop is Xbiz- followed by Ynot and then when Im checking the ad rotation Ill see what the beermasters are doing at GFY.

Each of your fellow employees will tell you Ive never been an AVN ass kisser. Ive told them like it was straight up. Just like the conversations Ive had in the past year with Anne, Kristin and now Alec. We dont agree on every point but if someone asks in earnest Im going to be honest.

Being Southern Im just not much for the LA porn royalty show.
As we say down here... "Dont Sing It - Bring it!"

Every one of the show owners in that thread at GFY all agreed on ONE thing - its time for a change. However didnt really see much substance being discussed beyond that by anyone.

I dont have anything personal against you. I dont know you. But the business as reached a point where none of this is a joke and anyone that treats it as such will be joining KB on stage in a comedy routine. [I hear hes very good]

I challenge any of you to step up to the plate and "sell" us on why we should attend your show going forward.

2Live Crew isnt a draw. I know the guys that hired Dmoney and I dont think they intended the promo to be a show draw.

$300 for a ticket to sit at a resort hotel isnt either - its ego stroking.
Dont tell me how you guys do that to keep out the riff raff when every night I see the pool area lined with local hookers wearing a mysterious "talent" badge. They are HOOKERS. They arent shooting scenes they are selling ass.

And honestly Chris if im going to take a vacation - Im certainly not going to do it with the rest of the industry. I see enough of this all day - every day.

Lets be honest. The shows started out as an excuse for guys in this biz to go party and get some ass. I should know - at the time I used this excuse to get away from my 9-5 job where this was just a hobby. And it was awesome. Where else can you get that smashed and hang out with women that you used to jerk your dick to when you were a kid PLUS new eager fresh faces as well. It was like shooting fish in a barrel and some of the best times of my life. Everything had just started and I dressed in suit and hung out on the rim of the activity.

Theres a picture somewhere around here that my datacenter partners took of me with Nina Hartley,Porsche Lynn and Cristy Lake piled up on a couch. Back then web guys didnt mix well with the dvd stars. And one of the funniest times was in Miami turning down being filmed getting a blow job. I hadnt eaten but twice the time I was there becasue of the Cyebrerotica multiple free bars and this chick insisted that I be able to pop a massive load on cam.

I grew out of this as time went on and I realized that not only could I make a living out of this but I was pretty good at it too. However the shows never did grow out of it.

And now yall need to innovate as well as the rest of us.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by avnchris

For anyone who thinks that adult trade shows are done- I suggest you attend Adult Novelty Expo along with several other very populas shows.We had over 150 exhibtiors at ANE.

AEE is still going strong, albeit not as strong as it has been in the past - but still strong.

Before you start name calling I suggest you look within at your own business to see what you can do to improve- as I will be doing the same.

Come on Chris.
Save that shit for GFY.

Ive been at the past 5 AEE shows. Slowly but surely you guys have allowed teeth whitening booths, donate for a prayer and people just selling shit to take over at least a 3rd of the back portion of the hall.

The Palms for Internext is a shit hole.

I hear they treat the locals better than they treat us. Several people were bumped the first night of the first year down the strip. And hotel management's attitude was FUCK you. Im not sure how I avoided the bump when I saw the Mighty 12clicks sent down the road much to his disdain.

I wouldnt be surprised if many people stayed elsewhere this year in order to make the trip and just hung out at the bar and skipped a badge.

Your missing the point - the name calling across the boards is because the input you get seems to fall on deaf ears. Everyone is frustrated.

The business as a whole wants these things to improve. They must improve for the better of us all.

Yet wheres the Summer show going to be in 2010?

[C H R I S 2.0]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Finally someone calls it the way it was and you didnt even brag about how many events youve sponsored in the past.

They all want new blood but nobody wants to do what it will take to bring that back in the door especially in Florida. that show was a haven for every girl starting a site on the web to meet up and do shoots. Once they jacked the price to 3 bills that ended all of that.

I can understand why the hotel is on lockdown after I was there with JoeSho one year and this local was beating us up for drugs and ass for about an hour.

Joe wouldnt give him any booty so the guy asked him to buy him drinks instead...they locked the hotel down the very next year. Well except for the hookers that get in on the mysterious "talent" pass that you never see advertised.

Badge : $300 / Half Price for Webmasters!!]
Hotel: $600.00
Food: Negotiuable


Total Tab: $600.00 - $1000.00

That loving feeling : priceless.....

And finally as for our attendance... we more attendees thatn any other adult digitalmedia trade show.. If the qty of shows thinned out... which vegas will be a great example of... we will see if this improves show quality....

Can you save judgement until then....

[C H R I S 2.0]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Come on Chris.
Save that shit for GFY.

Ive been at the past 5 AEE shows. Slowly but surely you guys have allowed teeth whitening booths, donate for a prayer and people just selling shit to take over at least a 3rd of the back portion of the hall.

The Palms for Internext is a shit hole.

I hear they treat the locals better than they treat us. Several people were bumped the first night of the first year down the strip. And hotel management's attitude was FUCK you. Im not sure how I avoided the bump when I saw the Mighty 12clicks sent down the road much to his disdain.

I wouldnt be surprised if many people stayed elsewhere this year in order to make the trip and just hung out at the bar and skipped a badge.

Your missing the point - the name calling across the boards is because the input you get seems to fall on deaf ears. Everyone is frustrated.

The business as a whole wants these things to improve. They must improve for the better of us all.

Yet wheres the Summer show going to be in 2010?

Thanks for actually speaking to me like a person.... much appreciated!!

Vegas will be at the Palms - Summer will most likely be at the westin again because of contracts...
personally I would like to take the show to Cancun...

[C H R I S 2.0]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Im easy Chris.
Return my call / ICQ / email when Im asking for details about a show that Im responsible for overseeing.

I really didnt know Monty that well but he was open and professional to me the entire time he was with your company. MJ being gone is a loss.

I dont know Tom very well either but I found him of the utmost level of professionalism when he moderated the panel I was on in Vegas. He was very prepared and talked to the issues. Rare. Ya scored on this readdition.

Kathee I have to admit I have known for several years and she should be writing for several tech and adult magazines as she is both knowledgeable and professional about any subject she takes on. You guys should pay her more and listen to her about repairing the mess the magazine is in as well as the website.

I cant remember when I went to AVNonline for any news.
Outside of my own sources my first stop is Xbiz- followed by Ynot and then when Im checking the ad rotation Ill see what the beermasters are doing at GFY.

Each of your fellow employees will tell you Ive never been an AVN ass kisser. Ive told them like it was straight up. Just like the conversations Ive had in the past year with Anne, Kristin and now Alec. We dont agree on every point but if someone asks in earnest Im going to be honest.

Being Southern Im just not much for the LA porn royalty show.
As we say down here... "Dont Sing It - Bring it!"

Every one of the show owners in that thread at GFY all agreed on ONE thing - its time for a change. However didnt really see much substance being discussed beyond that by anyone.

I dont have anything personal against you. I dont know you. But the business as reached a point where none of this is a joke and anyone that treats it as such will be joining KB on stage in a comedy routine. [I hear hes very good]

I challenge any of you to step up to the plate and "sell" us on why we should attend your show going forward.

2Live Crew isnt a draw. I know the guys that hired Dmoney and I dont think they intended the promo to be a show draw.

$300 for a ticket to sit at a resort hotel isnt either - its ego stroking.
Dont tell me how you guys do that to keep out the riff raff when every night I see the pool area lined with local hookers wearing a mysterious "talent" badge. They are HOOKERS. They arent shooting scenes they are selling ass.

And honestly Chris if im going to take a vacation - Im certainly not going to do it with the rest of the industry. I see enough of this all day - every day.

Lets be honest. The shows started out as an excuse for guys in this biz to go party and get some ass. I should know - at the time I used this excuse to get away from my 9-5 job where this was just a hobby. And it was awesome. Where else can you get that smashed and hang out with women that you used to jerk your dick to when you were a kid PLUS new eager fresh faces as well. It was like shooting fish in a barrel and some of the best times of my life. Everything had just started and I dressed in suit and hung out on the rim of the activity.

Theres a picture somewhere around here that my datacenter partners took of me with Nina Hartley,Porsche Lynn and Cristy Lake piled up on a couch. Back then web guys didnt mix well with the dvd stars. And one of the funniest times was in Miami turning down being filmed getting a blow job. I hadnt eaten but twice the time I was there becasue of the Cyebrerotica multiple free bars and this chick insisted that I be able to pop a massive load on cam.

I grew out of this as time went on and I realized that not only could I make a living out of this but I was pretty good at it too. However the shows never did grow out of it.

And now yall need to innovate as well as the rest of us.

I think this thread may actually get some results VS the one at the the zoo...

[C H R I S 2.0]

Also Gonzo - let me tell you a few of the things we are doing to make the experience better for both attendees and sponsors:

1. Lowering Prices for Webmasters

2. Lowerng Sponsorship Prices by as much as 50%

3. Combining Vegas and AEE in ne mega week super show.. No Break

4. Lowering prices to encourage more suite parties /networking events

5. Not allowing OUTSIDE PARTIES - your not involved your not involved.

6.



I appreciate all feedbacjk... please leave here as it seems to be a more intelligent posting forum..

[C H R I S 2.0]

$75.00 is fine for webmasters.

I will even let webmasters in for free, and buy them drinks...

Fact of the matter is that we need the webmaster back at the show, period

[C H R I S 2.0]

Oh and Gonzo . Cocaine Chris...cmon.

Low Blow- I have a family to support, please.

I already took a break to solve this problem, dont even think that it has resurfaced.

[DannyCox]

When AVN first took over IA2000, we did deal with them quite a bit, and they were happy to work with us on giving breaks to the Amateurs in attendance and giving us free space to hold our various Amateur seminars. Then, after some personnel changes, things just went silent and we could never get responses to questions again, or any assistance.We did feel a bit ignored.

The only communication we did have were AVN sales people trying to sell us booth space, but then also ignoring the comments I did have on that booth space. We had booth space at every show from 1999 to 2003, and that last show in Vegas in 2003 was the last straw. As I mentioned previously, it was getting both frustrating and tedious having more people come to our booth trying to sell us there stuff than showing interest in ours! It felt like over half the walk around's on the floor were only there to sell and promote. Complaints about this just fell on deaf ears and were ignored. It is wrong to allow people in who are not exhibitors or sponsors of the show to sell on the show floor, especially when they are leaving promotional materials all over the place and grabbing people right out of your booth! that killd it for us ever exhibiting or sponsoring again.

We also stopped going to shows when the main selling points being used were the "parties". Even avnchris made a post on AWW with the subject line, "Last Call for Alchohol......... I mean FREE Badges......" (sic). I know that is supposed to be humorous, but that really is the basic sell for shows...the party promotion before business promotion. It's also something I, and many others, are not the least bit interested in. I want to be told why I should go as it relates to my business, not my liver!

I may be totally naive, but I do believe that the real decision makers in our Industry are sick of these style of shows and would like to see something truly more business oriented. I know very few people who take any of the seminars seriously as all they are about is someone sitting on a panel saying "Buy My Shit!". Very little thought goes into those seminars, and in most industry trade shows, panel members are not allowed to promote their own products while on panel. Speakers are selected on their knowledge and ability to properly speak, not on the "old boys" network that has gone on much too long.

There really is a lot to do and a massive overhaul of the show concept needs to be done. Trade Show promoters need to concentrate on the ability of their attendees to do business, not the bottom line, as that bottom line will rise with a properly produced show.

[Toby]

Originally Posted by avnchris

...personally I would like to take the show to Cancun...

Why? If you're looking to increase attendance of rank and file webmasters, moving the show to a resort location outside the US isn't conducive to that goal. If program owners, billing companies and other vendors want a B2B show in Cancun or similar that should be a separate event.

First and foremost, before anything else will make any significant difference both shows need to be moved to more affordable venues. I'm not just talking about the hotel room prices, but all of the other ammenities too. I don't mind spending some coin for a nice meal a couple of nights while at a show, but for other meals I want something nearby or on site that is affordable but not fast food.

[Cleo]

Originally Posted by Toby

for other meals I want something nearby or on site that is affordable but not fast food.

We were rather shocked when we were charged $2 for about 10 peanuts but not as shocked as the $45+ bill for a latte, water and pastry.

[miz_wright]

Originally Posted by avnchris

Also Gonzo - let me tell you a few of the things we are doing to make the experience better for both attendees and sponsors:

1. Lowering Prices for Webmasters

2. Lowerng Sponsorship Prices by as much as 50%

3. Combining Vegas and AEE in ne mega week super show.. No Break

4. Lowering prices to encourage more suite parties /networking events

5. Not allowing OUTSIDE PARTIES - your not involved your not involved.

6.



I appreciate all feedbacjk... please leave here as it seems to be a more intelligent posting forum..

Number (3) makes me hurt just thinking about it. I don't even see how that can work -- a lot of us do both shows, and that just insures I have to be in two places at one. As it stands now, for just I'next, I am generally trying to be in three places at once, just for webmasters. Anyone who say me in Florida saw me running from meeting to meeting and apologising for not being able to stop and chat. January is generally 3x as bad - and trying to work a booth at the same time?

... I don't see how that helps?

This year's Vegas show was brutal, already - checking out and moving to the Palms, working a booth all day, and then hustling ass to the Palms to start Show #2? I sounded like a tranny hooker on a bad day, and I was just getting to the show where I could speak to my clients.

Chris, you know I adore you, but trying to put the consumer show on at the same time a lot of us will need to be working with webmasters seems... Tough.

[RawAlex]

Chris, Vegas is a clusterf*ck to attend, I would hate to think of exhibiting and trying to talk to webmasters. I did both this year, and honestly, I won't do it again in the current configuration.

The Palms absolutely sucks. Far from everything, close to nothing, and the show floor in a night club is total stupid, sorry. It once again creates the isolation, as the "rich guys" hide out upstairs in their private lodges, and the masses huddle down on the floor. It is anything but inviting, a totally anti-social setup that seems much more intended to create an "us and them" mentality than anything else.

AEE is actually the better show now, I made more contacts and had more time to talk to people than I did at the Palms. heck, I suspect that most of the actual business at The Palms was done at the lobby bar on opening night, not on the show floor..

You want to really make it go? Here are some tips:

Get one of the smaller areas at the ventian for a couple of days before AEE - 2 days max. Make the webmaster show badges also "industry" badges for AEE, and vis-versa. Encourage the "video" people who do sell content online, or who do have online programs to participate. Make a small show floor (doesn't have to be massive), create some social areas, etc. Make the webmaster show a warmup to "the big show". Understand that the video and novelty market and the online markets are constantly merging. Why separate them by days and distance?

AVN needs to accept that they cannot continue to charge super high badge prices to webmasters. $300 for a "party pass" may be good for some people, but as a bottom line business expense, paying $300 for one show, and then $150 more for another show isn't exactly a good start. I can meet almost all of those same people without a badge in the lobby of the two hotels.

Easiest way to tell it doesn't work is just to check your attendance in Miami. The numbers are there if you really want to see. Attendance WAY down. Attendance is what makes these shows work, if the people I would want to meet aren't going, why would I go? A badge at $50 and a hotel bar that doesn't charge the same amount for a mixed drink would be a very good start. A 4 day run in Miami can easily run 3k now. I can get near enough the same ROI staying home, so why do it? Heck, 3k would get me to Phoenix, to Cybernet, and enough left over to do QuebecExpo too. You have to justify your costs - attendance should be telling you that the costs aren't justified.

I could go on, but I will let someone else take a whack at this.

[Jim_Gunn]

Originally Posted by LizAEBN

Number (3) makes me hurt just thinking about it. I don't even see how that can work -- a lot of us do both shows, and that just insures I have to be in two places at one. As it stands now, for just I'next, I am generally trying to be in three places at once, just for webmasters. Anyone who say me in Florida saw me running from meeting to meeting and apologising for not being able to stop and chat. January is generally 3x as bad - and trying to work a booth at the same time?

... I don't see how that helps?

This year's Vegas show was brutal, already - checking out and moving to the Palms, working a booth all day, and then hustling ass to the Palms to start Show #2? I sounded like a tranny hooker on a bad day, and I was just getting to the show where I could speak to my clients.

Chris, you know I adore you, but trying to put the consumer show on at the same time a lot of us will need to be working with webmasters seems... Tough.

I am in full agreement with this. The AEE and Internext shows are both important to me and I want them to be consecutive, one after another, NOT running at the same time. I am not sure by AVNChris' wording what he meant exactly. The way it is now they are back to back with one day in between which is fine. If they are run at the same time like you guys did a few year ago, that will be a nightmare since we cannot be in two places at once.

[C H R I S 2.0]

Originally Posted by Jim_Gunn

I am in full agreement with this. The AEE and Internext shows are both important to me and I want them to be consecutive, one after another, NOT running at the same time. I am not sure by AVNChris' wording what he meant exactly. The way it is now they are back to back with one day in between which is fine. If they are run at the same time like you guys did a few year ago, that will be a nightmare since we cannot be in two places at once.

Thats is exactly what i meant

[brand0n]

how bout you just give me a life time pass right now.

ill sing praise of avn from here out.

ya im a fucking sell out, so what of it.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by avnchris

Oh and Gonzo . Cocaine Chris...cmon.

Low Blow- I have a family to support, please.

I already took a break to solve this problem, dont even think that it has resurfaced.

Fair enough.
Its a bad habit of mine to poke fun at everything including myself.

I really dont care either way and wouldnt have known had I not been asked to pull a pretty nasty post over here about it by an anon.

I didnt know it was a problem large enough to warrant a break so in retrospect it was also in bad taste.

As long as you honor your business commitment with me - it doesnt matter to me what you do on your time.

[Hell Puppy]

Yeah, I remember the year both AEE and Internext were held at same time over at the Sands. That was rough. The exhibitors were run ragged. The attendees struggled to find people because they were spread amongst multiple locations.

I despise the Palms. I was among the bumped first year there despite early arrival, their customer service sucked in how they handled it. And I will never stay there again as a result. Period.

And last year, I stayed in a tower suite down on the strip for the entire time for what one night would've cost me at Palms. I bought a badge, but I think used it for a grand total of 5 hours. Waste of time. I couldn't wait to get out of that hotel...food sucks, their bars suck, their service sucks.

Came back over for one of the parties only to find the club pretty empty yet any place to sit had a reserved sign on it for whatever "stars" were to show up later as an "attraction". Get fucking real. I'm in the business, I'm not there to worship a porn star. If I cant grab a pit, sit, have a conversation and do a little business, I'm out of there. And I was.

That pretty well ended my attendance last year. I spent my time offsite with people I actually wanted to see.

[gonzo]

The dual shows were a nightmare that year.
And Chris can you guys hire people that register you that arent from the retirement home?

Grandpa tried to tell me that one badge got me into the other show when I knew damn well it didnt. The guy refused to acknowledge me any further as it was about time for his break and they werent going to cut the badge that was PAID for until we got with one of the regualr staff that happened to pop in.

[tony404]

Originally Posted by DannyCox

When AVN first took over IA2000, we did deal with them quite a bit, and they were happy to work with us on giving breaks to the Amateurs in attendance and giving us free space to hold our various Amateur seminars. Then, after some personnel changes, things just went silent and we could never get responses to questions again, or any assistance.We did feel a bit ignored.

The only communication we did have were AVN sales people trying to sell us booth space, but then also ignoring the comments I did have on that booth space. We had booth space at every show from 1999 to 2003, and that last show in Vegas in 2003 was the last straw. As I mentioned previously, it was getting both frustrating and tedious having more people come to our booth trying to sell us there stuff than showing interest in ours! It felt like over half the walk around's on the floor were only there to sell and promote. Complaints about this just fell on deaf ears and were ignored. It is wrong to allow people in who are not exhibitors or sponsors of the show to sell on the show floor, especially when they are leaving promotional materials all over the place and grabbing people right out of your booth! that killd it for us ever exhibiting or sponsoring again.

We also stopped going to shows when the main selling points being used were the "parties". Even avnchris made a post on AWW with the subject line, "Last Call for Alchohol......... I mean FREE Badges......" (sic). I know that is supposed to be humorous, but that really is the basic sell for shows...the party promotion before business promotion. It's also something I, and many others, are not the least bit interested in. I want to be told why I should go as it relates to my business, not my liver!

I may be totally naive, but I do believe that the real decision makers in our Industry are sick of these style of shows and would like to see something truly more business oriented. I know very few people who take any of the seminars seriously as all they are about is someone sitting on a panel saying "Buy My Shit!". Very little thought goes into those seminars, and in most industry trade shows, panel members are not allowed to promote their own products while on panel. Speakers are selected on their knowledge and ability to properly speak, not on the "old boys" network that has gone on much too long.

There really is a lot to do and a massive overhaul of the show concept needs to be done. Trade Show promoters need to concentrate on the ability of their attendees to do business, not the bottom line, as that bottom line will rise with a properly produced show.

Well said.

[gonzo]

Originally Posted by brand0n

how bout you just give me a life time pass right now.

ill sing praise of avn from here out.

ya im a fucking sell out, so what of it.

DUde you told me you were a big baller.
Why you always trying to line up freebies?

[tony404]

Originally Posted by avnchris

$75.00 is fine for webmasters.

I will even let webmasters in for free, and buy them drinks...

Fact of the matter is that we need the webmaster back at the show, period

Why does it have to be about free booze? lol Also isnt anyone seeing the trend the webmaster affiliate is disappearing. So trying to get more people is hard to do when the industry is trying to push out the small webmaster.

[EmporerEJ]

When I attend Vegas shows, I also like to hit up CES, So a schedule that allows the shows before, or after CES, in sequence, would be best. That way, one could attentd all the shows, one after another, by staying about a wekk. (Which I usually do)
But, being the frugal guy that I am, I stay downtown on Fremont street for the week for one night's price on the strip. Much less "crazy" and the people in the hotels are more appreciative, and the tipping is lower for better service.

And there shouldn't be a fee, or a very low fee for admission to qualified attendees.
Just my opinion.

[Hell Puppy]

That's the good and bad of vegas for a show.

Everyone has different tastes in hotels, and there's something for anyone's preference and wallet. It makes for a very attractive destination because of that and there being so much to do other than the show.

But that is also the problem with Vegas shows. It's a BEAR to get everyone you want to see in the same place at the same time. If you dont have someone's cell number and/or a pre-arranged meet, you can both spend 5 days in town and never once see each other.

[Hell Puppy]

Also, timing of CES/AEE does not really allow for running a show like Internext BEFORE they come to down due to the proximity of New Years.

[EmporerEJ]

Originally Posted by Hell Puppy

That's the good and bad of vegas for a show.

Everyone has different tastes in hotels, and there's something for anyone's preference and wallet. It makes for a very attractive destination because of that and there being so much to do other than the show.

But that is also the problem with Vegas shows. It's a BEAR to get everyone you want to see in the same place at the same time. If you dont have someone's cell number and/or a pre-arranged meet, you can both spend 5 days in town and never once see each other.

Real old fashioned way to solve that.
Bulletin board with pieces of paper on it.
Right inside the gate, and don't charge people to use it, for shit's sake.