Naked Rhino VS NATS

[gonzo]

I hear a rumor that there is going to be a big announcement concerning this lawsuit.

Do you think NATS made libelous accusations or do you think Naked Rhino was stealing from the affiliates?


ANSWER IS COMING SOON!!!

[helix]

I hear a rumor that there is going to be a big announcement concerning this lawsuit.

Do you think NATS made libelous accusations or do you think Naked Rhino was stealing from the affiliates?


ANSWER IS COMING SOON!!!

I thought that was already finished......give us the dirt!

[Jace]

I think we know that answer considering Jason Tucker is no longer listed as part of No Rivals Media anymore

[Forest]

I think we know that answer considering Jason Tucker is no longer listed as part of No Rivals Media anymore

lol that doesnt mean anything

[Jace]

lol that doesnt mean anything

oh yeah it does

in fact falconfoto.com was redirecting to http://www.norivals.com/ since he joined up with them, and now all the sudden it is back to the regular homepage

one more thing, not only is it jason tucker that is removed from these pages, but his wife AND lawyers were all up there too, and they are now gone

http://norivalsmedia.com/no-rivals-about-us.htm

http://norivalsmedia.com/no-rivals-contacts-main.htm

[Forest]

oh yeah it does

in fact falconfoto.com was redirecting to http://www.norivals.com/ since he joined up with them, and now all the sudden it is back to the regular homepage

one more thing, not only is it jason tucker that is removed from these pages, but his wife AND lawyers were all up there too, and they are now gone

http://norivalsmedia.com/no-rivals-about-us.htm

http://norivalsmedia.com/no-rivals-contacts-main.htm

so what your trying to say (im only on my first cup of coffee) is because his name doesnt appear anywhere that means he has nothing to do with them anymore?

[Toby]

I think we know that answer considering Jason Tucker is no longer listed as part of No Rivals Media anymoreHmmm, interesting. I wonder if all those affiliates will finally get paid?

[gonzo]

I hear Chad is so very sad.

[raymor]

I've talked to both of them at length. I didn't go into much detail about this issue with the NATS
guys, but I have gotten to know them. In my opinion, Naked Rhino probably didn't cheat
any affiliates. In my opinion, NATS was trying to do the right thing but we all make mistakes
sometimes and they made the same mistake that I've made - publicly posting something
that shouldn't have been posted - at least not yet. I can understand that 100% because
in the past I've posted things about NATS that I shouldn't have posted. That's just my guess
or prediction. I don't know any facts that aren't public and am speaking only from the impression
I have about the people involved. Both seemed to be reasonably honest people. Things just
became public too soon, before anyone really knew 100% for sure what all was going.
I don't do business with scammers, liars, or cheaters. I still do business with Naked Rhino,
who uses Strongbox, and NATS, whose product I recommend and who recommends Strongbox.

[gonzo]

I've talked to both of them at length. I didn't go into much detail about this issue with the NATS
guys, but I have gotten to know them. In my opinion, Naked Rhino probably didn't cheat
any affiliates. In my opinion, NATS was trying to do the right thing but we all make mistakes
sometimes and they made the same mistake that I've made - publicly posting something
that shouldn't have been posted - at least not yet. I can understand that 100% because
in the past I've posted things about NATS that I shouldn't have posted. That's just my guess
or prediction. I don't know any facts that aren't public and am speaking only from the impression
I have about the people involved. Both seemed to be reasonably honest people. Things just
became public too soon, before anyone really knew 100% for sure what all was going.
I don't do business with scammers, liars, or cheaters. I still do business with Naked Rhino,
who uses Strongbox, and NATS, whose product I recommend and who recommends Strongbox.

Ive said from the begining I like both parties involved. Know them both on a personal level. Ive recommended NATS to numerous people and I have sent traffic to Naked Rhino as well as spoken with Chris and Brandi on many occassions.

And again as Ive stated Im just curious how this will end up. But I hear the wait is almost over. So all the cards will be on the table and everyone can make a judgement for themselves.

Totally unrelated but akin to your comment... there is a major wind of change starting to blow. Adult has become a BIG revuenue stream for many companies that provide services. And a lot of their competitors as well as upstarts are licking their chops for a piece of that pie.

Take for instance the lastest revision of Visa regs. We all know this time last year I pinned a message telling you that a 3rd party processor would be noncompliant and stop processing US Visa transactions.

And look how that ended up.

Now the requirements have become even more stringent and the steps that it takes to secure information for those processing VISA has become more expensive and time consuming.

Be careful who you trust to handle your money.

This industry steps closer to becoming regulated by the Feds every year.

The first CAN SPAM conviction was made this year.
The first 2257 violation was prosecuted this year.

Whats next?

My guess is the FTC and Feds will begin to persue those using spyware and trojans to steal money , time and resources by hijacking your computer.

Its in our best interest to start doing something about it now.

The best way is to start working with those that want to do business with us know that have credibility with the public and Feds.

Youll notice a new button at the top of Oprano.

The wind of change starts to blow next week in LA.

[Jace]

http://raleighfilmstudios.com/contacts.htm

interesting....

[Jace]

http://raleighfilmstudios.com/contacts.htm

scroll to the very bottom

We would like to give special thanks to our dear friend Jace whose tireless efforts and comprehensive quaility checks, help keep our company on top of it's game.

[RawAlex]

Gonzo, as much as the porn business tends to be a bit of a "bros club", my feeling is that at some point the industry will turn on itself and the lawyers will come out bigtime. There is way to many rogue affiliates out there.

[will76]

Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if all those affiliates will finally get paid?

Does someone have a list of who wasn't paid or were you one of them? When I hear people say things like " all those affiliates" is that a matter of fact or just board perception.

[will76]

Whats next?

My guess is the FTC and Feds will begin to persue those using spyware and trojans to steal money , time and resources by hijacking your computer.
.


Good post, and I can only hope that the part above does indeed happen and they go after the people who profited off of "then stolen goods" as well.

[gonzo]

Good post, and I can only hope that the part above does indeed happen and they go after the people who profited off of "then stolen goods" as well.
Its about time you made it over here ...

[Toby]

Does someone have a list of who wasn't paid or were you one of them? When I hear people say things like " all those affiliates" is that a matter of fact or just board perception.
Fortunately for me I was no longer promoting XclusiveCash when all this came down, so I wasn't owed any money.

I'm not aware of a list, but to my knowledge no payments have been made to any XclusiveCash affiliates since the dispute with NATS occurred.

[will76]

Fortunately for me I was no longer promoting XclusiveCash when all this came down, so I wasn't owed any money.

I'm not aware of a list, but to my knowledge no payments have been made to any XclusiveCash affiliates since the dispute with NATS occurred.


so you know nothing, weren't involved in any kind of way but make statements like ... " Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if all those affiliates will finally get paid? " :thumbdown

[will76]

Its about time you made it over here ...


I spent too much time on GFY but that was where all the bad people posted so it was good place to "chat" with them. Since I have been put into forced retirement in that respect now I can spend more time on quality boards :okthumb:

[Toby]

so you know nothing, weren't involved in any kind of way but make statements like ... " Hmmm, interesting. I wonder if all those affiliates will finally get paid? " :thumbdown

I don't see your logic. Why do I have to be personally owed money in order to comment? Facts are facts regardless. Many XclusiveCash affiliates are still owed money.

[Robert]

Good to see you here, Will76 :okthumb:

[gonzo]

I spent too much time on GFY but that was where all the bad people posted so it was good place to "chat" with them. Since I have been put into forced retirement in that respect now I can spend more time on quality boards :okthumb:
Youll find a lot of people here to be honest and hard working.

The conversation can get very spirited but I believe that most people on here are pretty decent.

Spin, Hype and indignantcy doesnt thrive here nor do the reborn thieves making their second run at adult because they couldnt compete in mainstream without an angle or cheat.

But then again...those reborn programs are all fueled by prechecked cross sales anyhow.

Welcome nonetheless. I cant promise you that I will agree with you 100% of the time but Im certainly interested in hearing what you have to say as I am with everyone else that stops by.

Dont mind the ones that call us newbs with big mouths.

I dont.

[Jace]

Does someone have a list of who wasn't paid or were you one of them? When I hear people say things like " all those affiliates" is that a matter of fact or just board perception.

I personally know of at least 10 people that promoted them that are still owed money...one is owed upwards of $10k at this point

[Sexyteaser]

I posted what I know so far here: http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=89612

This complaint is very different than the other one and I do believe it should be of interest to everyone in the industry - This is front page news!

[pam]

Will, go over to MP and ask how many there weren't paid and many of those who weren't paid will speak up as they have in the past.

[will76]

I hear a rumor that there is going to be a big announcement concerning this lawsuit.

Do you think NATS made libelous accusations or do you think Naked Rhino was stealing from the affiliates?


ANSWER IS COMING SOON!!!


Thats the one good thing about court cases (one of the few good things :( )is that everyone gets the facts. You can read the judgement and all of the circumstances involved with the case and in most instances there is a clear cut winner and loser (or guilty not guilty party).

I didn't get involved with the board drama when this broke a couple years back. I knew nothing about either party involved. I read back over the orginal posts that John made and it was par for the course of the typical John we have seen posting a lot over the last 6 months.

John seems to fly off the handle and make lots of emotional posts without thinking things through.

I think the whole NR / Nats situation caused a lot of existing and potential nats clients to realize exactly how much control the software owner has over your business. He could destroy your business if he wanted, pulling someone's license and hinting that they were shaving then locking them out of the affiliate stats area, making them spend a tremdious amount of time, money, and resources to move off of your system, in turn losing all of your affiliates over it.... well I would hope the post he made wasn't just purely emotional. I don't know if John realizes how much power has over people and their livelyhood or maybe he does and that is why he is the way he is.

One thing I woud like to point out... If someone was guilty of shaving, I don't think very many of them would fight for years and spend (i am assuming) 10K's of thousands of dollars in attorney's fees. If someone is shaddy or a scammer, 99 out of 100 times they get busted they go away, make a new name and try to come back up as someone else and hope no one will notice. So on that point alone I think it says a lot what NR is doing and has done. That vs the way John has handled things in the last 6 months or so and how cocky and arrogant he is, my money is that NR wasn't in the wrong and John fucked up and his ego and arrogance got the best of him and he destroyed another company because of it. (but those are just my opinions.) We will find out soon enough.

[will76]

Will, go over to MP and ask how many there weren't paid and many of those who weren't paid will speak up as they have in the past.


I've looked around actually and it seems like the same 2 or 3 people screaming. I am assuming they have 100's of affiliates.

I know how these situations go from promoting clickcash for so long, a couple pissed off people will scream "scam" and then others like Toby in this thread will say " wow they scammed lots of people" and the more people see that and think it is fact etc. etc...

It doesn't make sense for NR to spend tons of money to clear their name and then not pay some of their affiliates how much money? I bet a lot lot less then what they are paying in attorney fees.

[will76]

I personally know of at least 10 people that promoted them that are still owed money...one is owed upwards of $10k at this point


names ?

[will76]

I don't see your logic. Why do I have to be personally owed money in order to comment? Facts are facts regardless. Many XclusiveCash affiliates are still owed money.


you don't see my logic? all I am asking is if you post something as a FACT... then post their names and amounts.

You can comment all you want but you are saying a lot of poeple are owed so who are all these people ? thats all i am asking. You said no affiliates were paid to your knowledge... ok so how many do you know ?


Let's say you owned an affiliate program, and since i don't know you nor all of your affiliates I make comments that " to my knowledge you never paid any of your affiliates"... is that a fair and sensible statement to make.

How about "i know so and so and he wasn't paid"?

the way you people just pick up hearsay and regurgitate it is sickening. People might not like me but i don't go off half cocked and say shit about people. If you use spyware and i take screen shots then i call you out for it. So many people here just hear shit and then perpetuate it.

[Sexyteaser]

you don't see my logic? all I am asking is if you post something as a FACT... then post their names and amounts.

You can comment all you want but you are saying a lot of poeple are owed so who are all these people ? thats all i am asking. You said no affiliates were paid to your knowledge... ok so how many do you know ?

If you robbed xxxpeter to pay xxxpaul and now xxxpeter is broke and xxxpaul wants his money then who do you go after?

[gonzo]

If you robbed xxxpeter to pay xxxpaul and now xxxpeter is broke and xxxpaul wants his money then who do you go after?
Im not going after peter no matter what!

[Jace]

A class action suit has been filed against Too Much Media and its owners.

NATURE OF THE ACTION
This is a proposed “hybrid” action to brought pursuant to F.R.C.P. 23(c)(4).
Specifically, NR Media, Inc. (“NRM”) seeks damages and equitable relief on behalf of itself
and on behalf all persons and entities that operate Affiliate Programs, and that suffered harm
as a result purchasing information processing services from Too Much Media, LLC
(“TMM”) based on NATS, a software program designed for, by and owned by TMM, and/or
John Albright and/or Charles Berrebbi (collectively, the “TMM Defendants”). In addition,
Plaintiffs seek relief based on the tortious conduct that the TMM Defendants specifically
directed at Plaintiffs and which resulted in the destruction of NRM’s profitable and popular
on-line Internet business and sabotaged NR LCC from its inception.

[Jace]

names ?

if those people want to be known, they can post on their own

I know mailman is very vocal about the money he is owed, somewhere in the $8k range last i checked

[Jace]

you don't see my logic? all I am asking is if you post something as a FACT... then post their names and amounts.

You can comment all you want but you are saying a lot of poeple are owed so who are all these people ? thats all i am asking. You said no affiliates were paid to your knowledge... ok so how many do you know ?


Let's say you owned an affiliate program, and since i don't know you nor all of your affiliates I make comments that " to my knowledge you never paid any of your affiliates"... is that a fair and sensible statement to make.

How about "i know so and so and he wasn't paid"?

the way you people just pick up hearsay and regurgitate it is sickening. People might not like me but i don't go off half cocked and say shit about people. If you use spyware and i take screen shots then i call you out for it. So many people here just hear shit and then perpetuate it.

you are asking one person to post another persons financial details on a public forum, I am not sure who or what you think you are, but I would think that would be pretty irresponsible of anyone to do

[Toby]

I've looked around actually and it seems like the same 2 or 3 people screaming. I am assuming they have 100's of affiliates.

I know how these situations go from promoting clickcash for so long, a couple pissed off people will scream "scam" and then others like Toby in this thread will say " wow they scammed lots of people" and the more people see that and think it is fact etc. etc...

It doesn't make sense for NR to spend tons of money to clear their name and then not pay some of their affiliates how much money? I bet a lot lot less then what they are paying in attorney fees.
It was a whole lot more than just 2 or 3, and I've not seen a post by any XclusiveCash affiliate saying that they've been paid.

You're coming into this conversation rather late to just be assuming I'm talking out my of ass. I assure you I'm not, and the response by others here has backed that up.

[will76]

Spin, Hype and indignantcy doesnt thrive here nor do the reborn thieves making their second run at adult because they couldnt compete in mainstream without an angle or cheat.

But then again...those reborn programs are all fueled by prechecked cross sales anyhow.

.


A couple names come to mind while reading that ;)


thanks, if everyone agreed with me all the time what fun would that be. I learn new stuff every day, its healthy to see other people's points of view. Things i can't stand are the people with the " one liners" who tell you that you are wrong or others who make rediculas statements without any thing substantual to back it up.

[will76]

you are asking one person to post another persons financial details on a public forum, I am not sure who or what you think you are, but I would think that would be pretty irresponsible of anyone to do


come on lol. please. How much someone supposidly got scammed for is ALWAYS posted. ALWAYS.

you say financial information? no one is asking how much money they have in the bank lol. No need to spin it.

How many times have you heard someone say " I was scammed, not paid, etc. etc.." and how many times is it followed by an AMOUNT$$$ every time!

BTW ibill owes me 35K in past due checks and no telling how much they kept collecting on rebills that i wasn't paid for either. wow i just release sensative financial info.

Bottom line is you say you know at least 10 people, when i ask you, you mention 1. So all of these 10 people i guess they want to keep it a secret then right, they told you they were not paid but also said that you could repeat it to any one else? that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why do they want to keep their identies secret ?

You guys go on and on about all these affiliates who weren't paid. Sorry i don't buy into board bullshit hearsay. I am trying to form an opinion on this whole deal. ALL I asked for was if what you are saying is true then back it up, if not then it makes it look like you are lieing.

[will76]

It was a whole lot more than just 2 or 3, and I've not seen a post by any XclusiveCash affiliate saying that they've been paid.

You're coming into this conversation rather late to just be assuming I'm talking out my of ass. I assure you I'm not, and the response by others here has backed that up.


you people are something else. one person says it was 10, but can only name 1 publicly, another one says it was a "whole lot more than 2 or 3".

People usually make posts when they are happy and have been paid, lol. I see that all the time, everyone who gets paid runs to the board to post LOLOL. More like the other way around a handfull who haven't been paid or feel they were wronged or whatever the situation was that made them unhappy will make posts saying how they were screwed and then people who have nothing to do it pick it up and run with it.... great case in point with you.

[will76]

It was a whole lot more than just 2 or 3, and I've not seen a post by any XclusiveCash affiliate saying that they've been paid.

You're coming into this conversation rather late to just be assuming I'm talking out my of ass. I assure you I'm not, and the response by others here has backed that up.


Guys why can't i get a straight answer here.

Sorry " no one got paid" or " i can't tell you who" is rediculas replies.

Toby I don't know you, i am not going to take your word for it. Which god knows what caused you to form this opinion, probably something you heard someone else saying.

Ibill fucked a lot of people, a lot of people posted saying they were fucked and how much. Why is this situation so different? No one will posted that they are owed money only that they know lots of people who are but no one will posts names. You keep saying "none of their affiliates have been paid", "its a lot more than 2 or 3". HOW DO YOU KNOW THIS ?

did you see these people post here or somewhere else? If so why can you post who it is then, it would be public knowledge, or are the same "secret people" the same ones that Jace knows, those 10 plus people who claim they havent been paid but they dont want to keep it quiet. (makese no sense).

Why can't people just give straight answers ?

[helix]

My friend has an uncle in Florida that heard of a fella in that town....I forget the name, but he had a nephew who was married to this gal Jill that had a brother that was owed like 25k or so I hear.
Hope that helps :)

I don't know of anybody.

[will76]

My friend has an uncle in Florida that heard of a fella in that town....I forget the name, but he had a nephew who was married to this gal Jill that had a brother that was owed like 25k or so I hear.
Hope that helps :)

I don't know of anybody.


:clapping0 now that is the kind of proof i was looking for. Ok now I think NR is garbage. lol j/k

[Sexyteaser]

come on lol. please. How much someone supposidly got scammed for is ALWAYS posted. ALWAYS.

you say financial information? no one is asking how much money they have in the bank lol. No need to spin it.

How many times have you heard someone say " I was scammed, not paid, etc. etc.." and how many times is it followed by an AMOUNT$$$ every time!

BTW ibill owes me 35K in past due checks and no telling how much they kept collecting on rebills that i wasn't paid for either. wow i just release sensative financial info.

Bottom line is you say you know at least 10 people, when i ask you, you mention 1. So all of these 10 people i guess they want to keep it a secret then right, they told you they were not paid but also said that you could repeat it to any one else? that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why do they want to keep their identies secret ?

You guys go on and on about all these affiliates who weren't paid. Sorry i don't buy into board bullshit hearsay. I am trying to form an opinion on this whole deal. ALL I asked for was if what you are saying is true then back it up, if not then it makes it look like you are lieing.

All I can say is the only person I feel ripped me off was Mark Prince - what is up with the name 2Much?

Oh and Sharky if your out there swimming with the guppy's somewhere you might owe me lunch...JK

On another note why is everyone all over Will?

This is getting too funny Gonzo and I talked about how everyone was going to start turning on eachother as the economy slowed down. Now my post about peter and paul... I have only been around here a little bit but it seems like everyone was taking a little of something from everyone else most of the time.

[Jace]

This is getting too funny Gonzo and I talked about how everyone was going to start turning on eachother as the economy slowed down.

I don't see anyone turning on each other more than they always have

btw, isn't 2much another company? this is Too Much Media, not 2Much

[Sexyteaser]

I don't see anyone turning on each other more than they always have

btw, isn't 2much another company? this is Too Much Media, not 2Much

I meant 2much / Too Much (name similarity)

[Nymph]

I talked about how everyone was going to start turning on eachother

I just think we are having a major exposion of PMS, combined with a depleted supply of midol ;)

[CraigT]

I tend to agree with the line of thought.

For the contrary side... here is what i heard...


I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

Even though they were closed, they paid the affiliates based on what they were told by the affiliates out of the own pockets. I also know that a lot of these affiliates still work with Naked Rhino's new program to this day...

I also heard that a few affiliates couldn't be paid. So you have to ask yourself, why would they pay some affiliates but not all. From my experience in the billing world, their are some hard and fast rules as to why you pay affiliates, and why you don't , and the reasons are ever pretty about the affiliate. There are always two sides to every story.

I also notice it is the exact same people who bash one side...without any desire to hear the other side. This always concerns me when one side is always presented without hearing the other side.

I too have been around the block, and I too don't make posts or allegations lightly. I have not come into this argument lately, I just tend to watch a lot of the bashing that people do with getting involved.

There are some very hard accusations here on both sides. Where is the proof, and what happens when the minority speak for the majority. The one thing I think is going to happen for certain is when the information comes out, (it usually does) it won't be pretty, and will cause some to have to rethink their opinions. I am glad people take sides, I think too much apathy is certainly a bad thing. Just be careful before choosing sides.

[Sexyteaser]

I just think we are having a major exposion of PMS, combined with a depleted supply of midol ;)

OMG Nymph you are so right on!

[Jace]

I meant 2much / Too Much (name similarity)

yeah, I saw you put 2Much Media/NATS, and it confused me, and was just wondering if you were confused

it is too much media/nats haha

[Sexyteaser]

I tend to agree with the line of thought.

For the contrary side... here is what i heard...


I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.



I wish I had a Naked Rhino right now I would load it the truck and drop it off on someone's front yard.... OMG I just did not give that idea away.

[Sexyteaser]

yeah, I saw you put 2Much Media/NATS, and it confused me, and was just wondering if you were confused

it is too much media/nats haha

Jace - I am so confused right now I feel like my parents left me on the Merry-go-Round and no one is coming back to get me... Don't you rescue us woman with the knight and sword of yours.

[Toby]

Toby I don't know you...
And that's the whole issue I have with the attitude. You're the new guy here, not me. You don't know enough about me, about what I do or don't know, to make those assumptions.

If I had a past history of posting unsubstantiated BS on the boards your point might be justified. But you just assumed that since I didn't specifically list names of all those that had been posting publicly at the time about not getting paid that my post was unjustified. That's bullshit.

As for people getting paid and not saying anything, sure that's not unusual, but not a single posting about getting paid in this case, especially by the those that had been so public about it, can pretty much be taken as confirmation that no payments have been made.

This is a discussion board not the New York Fuckin Times. I'm not a reporter, just a webmaster that doesn't care for seeing friends and colleagues cheated.

BTW, I've been posting on a number of adult webmaster boards for several years now, and on a few of them for longer than that. GFY is not one of them, but a number of the boards you've started posting at since getting the boot (undeservedly so IMO) from there are. Take the time to get to know me, I'm a pretty easy going guy most of the time. What you see is what you get, no time or need for board personas or hype.

[Jace]

I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.

first time I heard that one

and as for posting what others are owed based on private conversations with them is not something I do, sorry will...if I had seen some of these people post on the boards I would say their names in a heartbeat, but this was told me in private, and it will stay that way unless I am advised otherwise

[Toby]

I heard Naked Rhino contacted their affiliates, and since Nats had shut them out of the system, they asked the affiliates what were they owed.
This is the first I've heard of this. Anyone out there lurking among those that actually got paid? Mailman from Medium Pimpin certainly wasn't one of them, he'd have said something.

[Jace]

I guess my big question to Will is why do you have such a vested interest in this? just for gossip or are you writing a news story?

I know why I have interest in it, but I can't figure out why you do

[bluemoney]

I'm just here for the sexy ladies :yowsa:

[Sexyteaser]

What's Your Vote Nats or Rhino's?

282 283

[Nymph]

I'm just here for the sexy ladies :yowsa:

You're so bad :rolleyes:

oh, and I want the other avatar back...you know the one I'm talking about...it's hard for me to get all weak kneed over this one ;)

[bluemoney]

You're so bad :rolleyes:

oh, and I want the other avatar back...you know the one I'm talking about...it's hard for me to get all weak kneed over this one ;)
I'm letting my "Inner child" run wild for a while :D

[Nymph]

I'm letting my "Inner child" run wild for a while :D


Hmmmm, then I guess I best get that first date before it's too late? ;)

[Jace]

2 don't mind letting the public know

mailman
XxXotic

I am asking more though, will keep you updated will :yowsa:

[CraigT]

[QUOTE=Jace;809112]first time I heard that one

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.

[Toby]

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.
The fact that I hadn't heard of it either, that it wasn't posted on the WM boards, makes me seriously doubt that this actually took place. That kind of news gets posted to GFY at the very least, and then reposted to the other boards. It just doesn't fly under the radar very long.

[CraigT]

The fact that I hadn't heard of it either, that it wasn't posted on the WM boards, makes me seriously doubt that this actually took place. That kind of news gets posted to GFY at the very least, and then reposted to the other boards. It just doesn't fly under the radar very long.

I think we all sometimes forget one thing.. There are people who post everything in the world, and there are people that just don't post. I think we all know that some of the most respected people in the industry really aren't posters and only lurk. So what ends up happening, unfortunately, is if we base our information on boards alone, we miss half the story.

Toby, you have been around, just like me, and think of the things you know, that have never made there way to the boards. The inside story. I think in this case, because all the sides will have their day and have their say in court, we will hear more first hand info than we usually do.

[Toby]

I think we all sometimes forget one thing.. There are people who post everything in the world, and there are people that just don't post. I think we all know that some of the most respected people in the industry really aren't posters and only lurk. So what ends up happening, unfortunately, is if we base our information on boards alone, we miss half the story.

Toby, you have been around, just like me, and think of the things you know, that have never made there way to the boards. The inside story. I think in this case, because all the sides will have their day and have their say in court, we will hear more first hand info than we usually do.
Some big players may have been paid under such an arrangement, behind the scenes, to keep things quiet, but there has been no efforts made to pay the rank and file affiliates. You know as well as I do that such information would never stay completely off the boards, and as an XclusiveCash affiliate I would have received notice of such an arrangement.

I'm not so sure we'll ever know the full story, but in this case it isn't necessary. I'll steal a quote from a discussion on this same topic on another board.
"It's so cut and dry, did the program owner get paid for joins, yes, did the program owners pay affiliates for the joins, no, end of fucking story."
That quote pretty much sums up my feelings on the topic.

[Jace]

[QUOTE=Jace;809112]first time I heard that one

You may need to get out more, and talk to more people. Hearing things from only a few sources is never a good strategy to learn.

well, on most topics I would agree, but on this one I can say with almost 100% certainty, someone is lying to you

[CraigT]

[QUOTE=CraigT;809139]

well, on most topics I would agree, but on this one I can say with almost 100% certainty, someone is lying to you

Guys, i have to agree... Someone is lying. i think we will find out.

[will76]

On another note why is everyone all over Will?




Because I ask people questions apparently they don't want to answer. Although what you see here is nothing compared to abuse I got on GFY for asking simple questions. Not even close.

I am use to it. They way you post and what you saying... I have a feeling some people are going to give you a hard time too. Some people really don't like it when you make posts about them or their company in a bad light and they seem to have friends who will back them up and side with them.

[will76]

And that's the whole issue I have with the attitude. You're the new guy here, not me. You don't know enough about me, about what I do or don't know, to make those assumptions.

If I had a past history of posting unsubstantiated BS on the boards your point might be justified. But you just assumed that since I didn't specifically list names of all those that had been posting publicly at the time about not getting paid that my post was unjustified. That's bullshit.

As for people getting paid and not saying anything, sure that's not unusual, but not a single posting about getting paid in this case, especially by the those that had been so public about it, can pretty much be taken as confirmation that no payments have been made.

This is a discussion board not the New York Fuckin Times. I'm not a reporter, just a webmaster that doesn't care for seeing friends and colleagues cheated.

BTW, I've been posting on a number of adult webmaster boards for several years now, and on a few of them for longer than that. GFY is not one of them, but a number of the boards you've started posting at since getting the boot (undeservedly so IMO) from there are. Take the time to get to know me, I'm a pretty easy going guy most of the time. What you see is what you get, no time or need for board personas or hype.


It funny you say this..... " since I didn't specifically list names of all those that had been posting publicly at the time about not getting paid that my post was unjustified."


but then you say this.... " I'm not a reporter, just a webmaster that doesn't care for seeing friends and colleagues cheated. "

BUT YET YOU STILL DONT NAME NAMES????

so your "friends and collegues were cheated" ???


Why the big secret who they are, you said they were vocal, for the fucking love of god why can't ANYONE tell me who hasn't been paid by NR. I feel like I am dealing with the fucking government here.

[will76]

first time I heard that one

and as for posting what others are owed based on private conversations with them is not something I do, sorry will...if I had seen some of these people post on the boards I would say their names in a heartbeat, but this was told me in private, and it will stay that way unless I am advised otherwise


ok so lets get this straight. You don't know anyone who has posted publicly that they weren't paid by NR, but you know 10+ people who consulted in you in private that they weren't paid and they wanted to keep it a secret..


yeah ok. lol.

[will76]

This is the first I've heard of this. Anyone out there lurking among those that actually got paid? Mailman from Medium Pimpin certainly wasn't one of them, he'd have said something.


So +1 that you know that wasn't paid and +/- 0 that you know that was

Hey now we are getting somewhere. :clapping: maybe in abother 8 years at this pace we can actually find out how many people were or went paid honestly instead of just assuming and going off of board hearsay.

[will76]

I guess my big question to Will is why do you have such a vested interest in this? just for gossip or are you writing a news story?

I know why I have interest in it, but I can't figure out why you do


you know me i am just a drama whore trying to find a new home and the current topic to bitch about.

Actually I missed the NR / NATS stuff the first go around, read up on it recently and in light of how John has been acting in the last 6 months i feel like poeple jumped to conlusions about NR and gave John way too much credit. The same guy that we recently find out merged with a company that a lot of ex ibill CEO, princple, and higher ups started as ibill was going down in flames. Amoungest other things John has done recently. The only people I see saying they were never paid were the same 3 people over and over again. I was curious if their situation had more to it, if others were paid or not paid.

And it was a very simple question. I have no vested interested however your admission that you do and the fact you claim you know 10+ people who want to be remain nameless who claim they werent paid, kind makes sense now.

It was just as simple question for me to find out for myself as best I could what happened. I hear you guys saying " no one was paid" " several people" but when i simple ask who NO ONE will answer me and i think that is a little odd to say the least.

[will76]

2 don't mind letting the public know

mailman
XxXotic

I am asking more though, will keep you updated will :yowsa:


thats the same 2 I am pretty sure that I have seen post over and over about it on GFY and I bet the same 2 that other people here are making reference to when they make comments that no one had been paid. Please as keep me updated as the other 8 actually want to step up and let people know that they weren't paid. I am curious to see who the others are.

[will76]

Some big players may have been paid under such an arrangement, behind the scenes, to keep things quiet, but there has been no efforts made to pay the rank and file affiliates. You know as well as I do that such information would never stay completely off the boards, and as an XclusiveCash affiliate I would have received notice of such an arrangement.

I'm not so sure we'll ever know the full story, but in this case it isn't necessary. I'll steal a quote from a discussion on this same topic on another board.
"It's so cut and dry, did the program owner get paid for joins, yes, did the program owners pay affiliates for the joins, no, end of fucking story."
That quote pretty much sums up my feelings on the topic.

which ones would that be again?

[Toby]

So +1 that you know that wasn't paid and +/- 0 that you know that was

Hey now we are getting somewhere. :clapping: maybe in abother 8 years at this pace we can actually find out how many people were or went paid honestly instead of just assuming and going off of board hearsay.

If you're going to be this nitpicky all the time, we're gonna continue to have issues. I'm not going to change how I post just to appease you, and I seriously doubt anyone else here will either.

Many of us are here are in our mid-40's or older and have been at this for quite some time. We're quite aware of what conclusions can and can't be made from posts on boards.

The particular post that I'd made back in November that you decided was out of line was a fairly general statement. The past history was already reasonably well known at the time. Your expectations for detailed supporting data for such comments are simply unreasonable, and I don't take kindly to having my integrity questioned. Gonzo seems comfortable enough with my integrity to make me a Mod here.

For the sake of making a point, let's turn this around 180 degrees. Prove me wrong. Post the name of just one XclusiveCash affiliate that has confirmed that they've been paid in full.

[will76]

If you're going to be this nitpicky all the time, we're gonna continue to have issues. I'm not going to change how I post just to appease you, and I seriously doubt anyone else here will either.

Many of us are here are in our mid-40's or older and have been at this for quite some time. We're quite aware of what conclusions can and can't be made from posts on boards.

Apparently I am just a pup at 32 compared to you guys and I have only been around for 9 years but i am new here, so hell what do i know.

If me asking you a simple question is going to piss you off then i guess we are going to have issues then. You continuing to say " they haven't paid ANY of their affiliates" and then I ask well who hasn't been paid and you can't tell me who (minus 2 people pointed out by jace) = me being nit picky???




The particular post that I'd made back in November that you decided was out of line was a fairly general statement. The past history was already reasonably well known at the time. Your expectations for detailed supporting data for such comments are simply unreasonable, and I don't take kindly to having my integrity questioned. Gonzo seems comfortable enough with my integrity to make me a Mod here.

What posts back in Novmenber are you talking about. I am referring to all of the posts you MADE IN THIS THREAD. If this past history is so well know then for christ sakes go back to the all of those threads and copy paste all of these people saying they weren't paid. Or just link me to the threads. Since it was so " well know" I am sure you can find the thread and all the people in question to point them out to me.

LOL I am questioning your integrity? I asked you to simply name the people you were making reference to... if your only supporting facts to those statements are " it was generally known blah blah etc.." then I am not the one calling your integrity into question, i think you doing that yourself. I just asked if you could SIMPLY point out the people you were making reference to. How hard is that?


For the sake of making a point, let's turn this around 180 degrees. Prove me wrong. Post the name of just one XclusiveCash affiliate that has confirmed that they've been paid in full.

here is a novel idea, for the sake of making a point.... just answer my question. Who are all of these people who are so well known that weren't paid that no one can point me to thread or post their names or anything? It's the greatest well known secret in the world apparently.

nice try on the 180 thing, If i was the person saying everyone was paid then it would be more appropriate for me to back up my statements. However, since you said none of their affiliates were paid, I am just trying to find the truth of the matter. I don't know anyone that was paid or wasn't paid, hence why I am asking questions.


its funny how you guys make such a big deal out of this and then try to turn it back on me.

here is a quick recap... you say " they haven't paid any of their affiliates"

I notice this and say really, interesting, wow so who wasn't paid?

50 posts later i still don't know, but i am the asshole for asking " who " when people make allegations like that.

[Toby]

What posts back in Novmenber are you talking about. I am referring to all of the posts you MADE IN THIS THREAD.Note the dates on the posts. This was an older thread that Gonzo bumped with a new post about the new litigation. My post in THIS THREAD that you originally commented about was made last November in response to Gonzo's original post regarding the apparent pending resolution of prior litigation between Naked Rhino and TMM over the CCBill rebill issue.

I just asked if you could SIMPLY point out the people you were making reference to. How hard is that?

Who are all of these people who are so well known that weren't paid that no one can point me to thread.
If you want to know so badly, go read the posts across all the WM boards back at the time this all hit the fan in Summer/Fall of 2006. That is the history I'm referring to. I'm not going to go back and dig up all those details every time this topic get brought up again just to appease those that can't recall or weren't keeping up at the time.

[gonzo]

I was going to attach the legal stuff last night.

I can see now it dont matter.

Discovery is going to be a MAJOR bitch for one if not both of these companies.

The issue has become so cloudy at this point...I just got to wait till this ends up in court and as public record.

I think the information could be industry shaking.

One thing is for sure. Someone was stealing.

[Jace]

ok so lets get this straight. You don't know anyone who has posted publicly that they weren't paid by NR, but you know 10+ people who consulted in you in private that they weren't paid and they wanted to keep it a secret..


yeah ok. lol.

do you even have any idea of the connection I have to the xclusivecash mess? might wanna research a bit before doubting ;)

[Jace]

will, unfortunately I am almost kind of bummed you decided to come here and start posting...I know gonzo loves the page views and all, but you are entirely too damn abrasive about every single fucking thing you chat about

think about it man, you are jumping my shit because I personally know at least 10 people that weren't paid by a program that scammed, yet because I won't break privacy with those people you are giving me shit?

maybe there are lawsuits pending? maybe what was told to me was in confidence? maybe, just maybe, I don't break confidence to appease some whiny jerk so he can get sig views?

I am already named in 2 lawsuits in this whole mess, I prefer not to make it 3 or 4 or 5

regardless, I am done talking about it for now......you are a broken record

[Jace]

I need to take that back

I am not bummed you decided to come here, sorry for that

I just think your personality is so abrasive sometimes about things, it makes for a hard discussion with you

[gonzo]

I like the truth.

I dont always agree with what Ive seen Will post and he certainly has his own style but you have to agree that he seems to care about this business.

There are so very few of us that do.

[Jace]

I like the truth.

I dont always agree with what Ive seen Will post and he certainly has his own style but you have to agree that he seems to care about this business.

There are so very few of us that do.

yeah, that is why I retracted what I said

will fights the good fight, I just wish he wasn't so abrasive with people that actually do care along side him.

[softball]

I need to take that back

I am not bummed you decided to come here, sorry for that

I just think your personality is so abrasive sometimes about things, it makes for a hard discussion with you

You do seem to have that problem a lot. Perhaps you should seek help

[gonzo]

yeah, that is why I retracted what I said

will fights the good fight, I just wish he wasn't so abrasive with people that actually do care along side him.
Hes getting used to us all I think.

Ive seen him get his ass packed all day long over there.
It was entertaining just to see the blatant dicksucking by those on the various payrolls. You can almost see the alliances by those that are getting paid in one shape or form.

Shaneless shilling - you know - like you can tell when AlienQ has had a recent paying client and no matter what they do he has them plunged balls deep in his throat.

OH MOBILE! hahahaha

I dont think that turned out the way he thought it would either.

TIME THE AVENGER!

[Jace]

like you can tell when AlienQ has had a recent paying client and no matter what they do he has them plunged balls deep in his throat.


hahahahahahah...god he is fun to watch though

[gonzo]

hahahahahahah...god he is fun to watch though
Hes still not very good at this.

[will76]

Note the dates on the posts. This was an older thread that Gonzo bumped with a new post about the new litigation. My post in THIS THREAD that you originally commented about was made last November in response to Gonzo's original post regarding the apparent pending resolution of prior litigation between Naked Rhino and TMM over the CCBill rebill issue.

you got me there i am terrible with checking dates of posts i thought this was made recently BUT, you have said the same statements about 10 times since then so either way you feel the same way you did 5 months ago as you do now. I don't see the big deal if there is so many people that haven't been paid and it is so common knowledge that no one can point out who some of these people are.


If you want to know so badly, go read the posts across all the WM boards back at the time this all hit the fan in Summer/Fall of 2006. That is the history I'm referring to. I'm not going to go back and dig up all those details every time this topic get brought up again just to appease those that can't recall or weren't keeping up at the time.

It's not that i want to know so badly, i just thought anyone who would keep saying over and over that no one was paid etc.. would easily be able to show me why they think that way, those are strong allegations.... silly me for thinking that i guess.

So you are referring to posts that where made right when this happened orginally and NR lost their license to nats? At the time NR was locked out of nats and didn't have access to the stats to pay people. Um yeah I can see how people didn't get paid at that time. Have you seen posts (besided from the two people mentioend in this thread) that were made several months after all of this happened orginally. It seems logical to me that initially no one was paid, how could they be if NR was locked out of NATS admin. But is it possible that months later as they were able to figure it out and/or get access that they did pay people.

It sounds like you are making reference to all the initial posts, how many people did you hear saying several months later that they haven't been paid. Can you see where you would have this all wrong if it happened this way.

[Jace]

Here you go Will, you wants names of people owed money?

Bishop, Thomas Leech, Freeones, ShermShack, Mailman

those 5 are now on public record

[gonzo]

http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?p=809797#post809797

[RawAlex]

Here you go Will, you wants names of people owed money?

Bishop, Thomas Leech, Freeones, ShermShack, Mailman

those 5 are now on public record

The question I think being that if they cannot access the NATS system to figure out the payments due, how would they pay them? Further, from what I can see in the items posted by Gonzo, it would appear that the LLC that was running the sites is essentially dead.

[gonzo]

The question I think being that if they cannot access the NATS system to figure out the payments due, how would they pay them? Further, from what I can see in the items posted by Gonzo, it would appear that the LLC that was running the sites is essentially dead.

Half a million dollars income in a year for that program.

Those pdfs are a rich source of entertainment.

A LOT of information on this business can be gleaned by casually reading them. And if I realize that... you just can imagine what the Feds could extrapolate from reading this information.