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-   -   Deecash and Secondary processing shave (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=94875)

RawAlex 05-12-2011 11:14 AM
Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
There is an amusing tale being told at the zoo this week, one that almost has me wanting to bust out and post something over there because it's such a crock of shit.

The program in question is boyfriendbucks, one of the many out there that seem to be working a new scam, secondary processing shave. Basically, they got busted and added this to the T&C:

Quote:
Signups as a result of second tier processors or discount offers after failure of initial payment attempt are not included in the commission program. Referrals using mobile phone devises are not included in the commission program, at this time.
Basically, if you have a cascade billing system with NATS, you apparently can define a seconary processor as being a "non-affiliate paying" processor. So if you fail out of their default processor, everything after that is a "free game" for them.

The real trick of course is to select the tightest processor to be your "main" processor for the site. The only stuff that gets approved on submit has to be 100% clean and perfect, probably only the best countries, CC never used for porn before, etc. Everyone else goes to a secondary processor, and well, at that point it no longer matters for the affiliate.

What disappoints me the most is that the folks from TMM / NATS don't seem to be addressing the issue. They are getting called out on the zoo, they are posting, but they are ignoring the issue. It appears (at least from an affiliate standpoint) that there is clearly an easy way to shave NATS: Use a tightass primary processor and don't pay for anything else.

I would love to hear the TMM official word on this sort of thing. Certainly if nothing else this gives another reason why Deecash programs convert so poorly, especially right after takeover. It would also explain why they are always so horny to move to NATS as soon as they take something over.

gonzo 05-12-2011 11:54 AM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RawAlex (Post 838749)
There is an amusing tale being told at the zoo this week, one that almost has me wanting to bust out and post something over there because it's such a crock of shit.

The program in question is boyfriendbucks, one of the many out there that seem to be working a new scam, secondary processing shave. Basically, they got busted and added this to the T&C:



Basically, if you have a cascade billing system with NATS, you apparently can define a seconary processor as being a "non-affiliate paying" processor. So if you fail out of their default processor, everything after that is a "free game" for them.

The real trick of course is to select the tightest processor to be your "main" processor for the site. The only stuff that gets approved on submit has to be 100% clean and perfect, probably only the best countries, CC never used for porn before, etc. Everyone else goes to a secondary processor, and well, at that point it no longer matters for the affiliate.

What disappoints me the most is that the folks from TMM / NATS don't seem to be addressing the issue. They are getting called out on the zoo, they are posting, but they are ignoring the issue. It appears (at least from an affiliate standpoint) that there is clearly an easy way to shave NATS: Use a tightass primary processor and don't pay for anything else.

I would love to hear the TMM official word on this sort of thing. Certainly if nothing else this gives another reason why Deecash programs convert so poorly, especially right after takeover. It would also explain why they are always so horny to move to NATS as soon as they take something over.
Careful calling TMM out. Last person did got sued.
Ask Shellie Hale.

Maybe Deepak Agarwal will drop by with an explanation.

RawAlex 05-12-2011 11:58 AM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo (Post 838752)
Careful calling TMM out. Last person did got sued.
Ask Shellie Hale.
I am very careful. I wouldn't say that TMM has created this situation intentionally, but it is clearly a situation where affiliate programs using NATS are able to shave traffic and sales away from affiliates. I am not sure they intended it, I am only observing it.

I would hope that John or perhaps Vlad would grace us with a visit and let us know how things are going.

RawAlex 05-13-2011 09:14 AM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
The sound of crickets. I left messages for Vlad of TMM with a link to this thread, but I guess they don't want to come to explain the situation.

RawAlex 05-19-2011 04:31 PM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
I think an update is in order. At the Zoo, TMM / Nats people have pretty much washed their hands of it. They have indicated that this is a TOS issue with Deecash, and not any bug or failing of their software.

The deecash people are less than forthcoming, and their only comment is about sending out $500,000 in commissions in the last pay period. Make of that what you like.

gonzo 05-19-2011 07:55 PM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RawAlex (Post 838795)
I think an update is in order. At the Zoo, TMM / Nats people have pretty much washed their hands of it. They have indicated that this is a TOS issue with Deecash, and not any bug or failing of their software.

The deecash people are less than forthcoming, and their only comment is about sending out $500,000 in commissions in the last pay period. Make of that what you like.
Im getting old and my memory isnt as sharp as it was but didnt they sue Naked RHino for some sort of shave a few years ago?

RawAlex 05-20-2011 12:39 AM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzo (Post 838796)
Im getting old and my memory isnt as sharp as it was but didnt they sue Naked RHino for some sort of shave a few years ago?
Ahh, here is the rub: The answers that TMM John gave on this subject is that what Deecash is doing isn't a shave, because (are you ready) "It's in the affiliate program TOS". Apparently they don't see an issue with mobile traffic being filtered off, or with secondary processors not paying, etc. As long as it is in the TOS, it's not an issue as far as they are concerned, so it is not a NATS issue.

softball 05-20-2011 12:56 AM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
From what I have seen, its not a nats issue, its how the software is being used. I once contacted VBulletin about a scumbag forum hosting illegal content, and they told me their company just provides the program, what the customer does with it is up to them. Like buying a gun. Its yours...you make the decision who to shoot. In this case, they even inform you in their tos, that you are the target. It then becomes your decision when to duck.
Guns don't kill people. People kill people.

Hell Puppy 05-20-2011 09:21 PM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
....and yet people still send them traffic.

softball 05-21-2011 12:05 PM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hell Puppy (Post 838808)
....and yet people still send them traffic.
They just don't know when to duck.

RawAlex 05-22-2011 12:46 AM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hell Puppy (Post 838808)
....and yet people still send them traffic.
I would never deal with deecash on a normal basis. However, they have perfected the "sneak take over" method, leaving the previous program owner seemingly as a straw man, as they take control on the back end. Trafficcash is probably the best example, they absolutely denied up and down, but in the end, they own the program.

I am still trying to shut off all the TCG stuff that was built up over the last 10 years. It's not an easy job.

It is very hard to avoid them, they may in fact own some of the stuff you promote these days without you even realizing it.

Toby 05-22-2011 01:06 AM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
Since I've promoted solo model sites heavily, and they tend to come and go without much notice, I've deliberately site up my network so that I can remove or change links efficiently.

I haven't had too much collateral damage with Dee Cash buy outs, but I have had a few that required purging links (which were no longer converting anyway well before the buy outs)

RawAlex 06-03-2011 01:40 PM
Re: Deecash and Secondary processing shave
 
In the end, Deecash and the NATS people both sort of avoided giving clear indications on this one. The NATS people feel it isn't their responsiblity, and didn't offer anything for affiliates that would let them see lost traffic or billing differences inside the program space. They feel it is a TOS issue only.

Deecash? They don't comment on anything like this, their usual answer is "we sent out X to webmasters last month, so you know we are good guys".

It's more than slightly disappointing.


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