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-   -   How fucking sad is today's webmaster (http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/showthread.php?t=45304)

Anthony 12-13-2005 10:08 AM
How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
I just read on GFY a thread about Newbies dont' give up. Thread started throws up his stats saying how happy he is making a little over 100 bucks in his first month.

I almost threw up.

Today's webmaster is an emtpy shell of what we were pre 2000.

What do you think are causes?

My list:

1. Pie is smaller
2. Noobs want everything
3. Noobs don't want to learn anything
4. Nothing is new in this industy

Mike AI 12-13-2005 10:10 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
People who come to the party late are left with crumbs.

Anthony 12-13-2005 10:17 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike AI
People who come to the party late are left with crumbs.
:-pearl:

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 10:24 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Plus...the average newbie inour day did not do very good.

We remember the ones that did well at it.Like us.And the ones who just won't leave and get a real job , like Dravyk ;-)))

Peaches 12-13-2005 10:36 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Damn, I always made on the low end of $$$ and I made $2K my first month :( And that was profit.

And I agree with all 4 of your causes.

Red 12-13-2005 10:47 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
I just read on GFY a thread about Newbies dont' give up. Thread started throws up his stats saying how happy he is making a little over 100 bucks in his first month.

I almost threw up.

Today's webmaster is an emtpy shell of what we were pre 2000.

What do you think are causes?

My list:

1. Pie is smaller
2. Noobs want everything
3. Noobs don't want to learn anything
4. Nothing is new in this industy
Those are all valid points. I think 2 and 3 are the biggest reasons. Add to that, the fact that they don't go into this thinking it's a business and one has to work at it to make money. And because the pie is smaller and surfers are a little smarter these days, one has to work a little smarter and a little harder to get started. Those that are looking for beer money are quite happy with $100/month, so why bother working at it.

DrGuile 12-13-2005 10:53 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
the slices are smaller....

if anything, the pie is bigger...

LadyMischief 12-13-2005 11:20 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
There's lots of market left.. but these newbies want everything, hosted galleries, hosted freesites, free content, free this and free ipods to top it all off. SMART programs would do better to move away from that and find ways to push their own traffic again. These days affiliates are almost a liability in some cases, at least from what I see, and there's umpteen better systems already in place. Most people are afraid of change though.

Newton 12-13-2005 11:24 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
My cleaning lady just said that she can't take the cut in wages to go into adult as a newbie ;)

There does seem to be inherent expectations that everyone should give out secrets, knowledge and skills for free. It does the beg the question: "Why the fuck should anyone?"

Anthony 12-13-2005 11:35 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newton
My cleaning lady just said that she can't take the cut in wages to go into adult as a newbie ;)

There does seem to be inherent expectations that everyone should give out secrets, knowledge and skills for free. It does the beg the question: "Why the fuck should anyone?"
Funny enough, Nick and I were involved in a thread about that over on GFY. I got numerous icq's from ppl wanting to get in on it. Even AFTER I posted that the quickest way to lose money on the web is to let everyone in on the secret.

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 11:41 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Amen brother.

Dumbest thing I ever did was tell Meat the "avs trick".

Might just have well have told Reuters.

Now I play my cards closer to my chest....

Different time....

Plus to be honest the old influx of webmasters were a nicer better bunch.The new ones are wiggas or dopey stupid twats who think they can make a fortune from this business but just really don't have a clue.

Fun watching though :)

NickJ 12-13-2005 11:53 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Interesting how everyone has his or her own perspective. I have been selling video content to webmasters for over 6 years now, I have had pay sites and I see that there are just not that many newbies and less veterans in the biz today. WHY? The subscription model where a user has to buy a membership, gets rebilled automatically, has to remember to cancel, and all that crap has killed this business.

If you are a newbie and you have the best site you can possibly make and you have to hook up with ccbill, ibill or another one of those things I think you are doomed. Where is it going? Pay per view or pay per download or whatever you call it. But even that pay per view crap is still shitty because you still have to give a lot of personal information and have to "FUND" an account and that usually costs about 20 bucks and then you get ripped off because you usually don't get all the mins you paid for.

The customer of the future is that guy that just wants to pay a little and get a little and leave. There are hundreds of millions of guys that don't want to JOIN a pay site and OWN a stupid membership but just want to view maybe one video for lets say one dollar. Why do you think password sites and stealing is such a success? NOBODY WANTS TO JOIN AND BUY MEMBERSHIPS anymore and anyone that thinks otherwise has his or her head in the sand.

Make the videos easy and inexpensive to get and it won't be worth anyone’s time to steal them. Look at what Google just did with Fox. Now you can watch old re runs of citcoms for just 99cents each. This is the future and until the rest of you come up with a better billiing method I think most pay sites will die All but the biggest are doomed. But AHHH, what about the poor affiliates? How the hell are you going to pay them when a guy buys one video for one dollar and leaves? Better wake up because the affiliate model as we know it is going to be a thing of the past. Affiliates are going to be happy with making less but still making something. All this is inevitable. In about two weeks I will have a new pay site with 400 different videos for 2 dollars each. Affiliates will get one dollar and I will keep the other. We will see how it goes.

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 11:56 AM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickJ
Interesting how everyone has his or her own perspective. I have been selling video content to webmasters for over 6 years now, I have had pay sites and I see that there are just not that many newbies and less veterans in the biz today. WHY? The subscription model where a user has to buy a membership, gets rebilled automatically, has to remember to cancel, and all that crap has killed this business.



If you are a newbie and you have the best site you can possibly make and you have to hook up with ccbill, ibill or another one of those things I think you are doomed. Where is it going? Pay per view or pay per download or whatever you call it. But even that pay per view crap is still shitty because you still have to give a lot of personal information and have to "FUND" an account and that usually costs about 20 bucks and then you get ripped off because you usually don't get all the mins you paid for.



The customer of the future is that guy that just wants to pay a little and get a little and leave. There are hundreds of millions of guys that don't want to JOIN a pay site and OWN a stupid membership but just want to view maybe one video for lets say one dollar. Why do you think password sites and stealing is such a success? NOBODY WANTS TO JOIN AND BUY MEMBERSHIPS anymore and anyone that thinks otherwise has his or her head in the sand.



Make the videos easy and inexpensive to get and it won't be worth anyone’s time to steal them. Look at what Google just did with Fox. Now you can watch old re runs of citcoms for just 99cents each. This is the future and until the rest of you come up with a better billiing method I think most pay sites will die All but the biggest are doomed. But AHHH, what about the poor affiliates? How the hell are you going to pay them when a guy buys one video for one dollar and leaves? Better wake up because the affiliate model as we know it is going to be a thing of the past. Affiliates are going to be happy with making less but still making something. All this is inevitable. In about two weeks I will have a new pay site with 400 different videos for 2 dollars each. Affiliates will get one dollar and I will keep the other. We will see how it goes.
I'll bite....

Whats the size of the vids?

Whats the cost of bandwidth per...

What do you think it will convert TGP crap traffic at?

NickJ 12-13-2005 12:05 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Thanks for asking. According to my research, and I started thinking this way before google and Fox got together with the similar idea, and now also Napster too..

The files are wmv format and they are big. The biggest runs at 1.5kb/sec almost full screen so there is no skimpiong on quality. You bring up an excellent point about crap TGP traffic. I have found through trial runs that the reason that people think this traffic is crap is becuast

NO BODY WANTS TO JOIN A SITE AND OWN A MEMBERSHIP AND GET REBILLED OVER AND OVER AND THEN REMEMBER TO CANCEL. It is simple.

But, these people who comprise the "crap" traffic are just dying to get something like I am proposing. I would be happy to open the stats when this thing is operational in 2 weeks. Originally, when I was getting a lot of TGP/MGP traffic from sublime, coversions were so low I thought that maybe the traffic was coming form China. We did some filtering and found that it WAS indeed North AMerican traffic. The traffic is not crap. The way we are asking these guys to pay for our stuff is. Just look at IBill today. They are broke.

Anthony 12-13-2005 12:08 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickJ
But, these people who comprise the "crap" traffic are just dying to get something like I am proposing. I would be happy to open the stats when this thing is operational in 2 weeks. Originally, when I was getting a lot of TGP/MGP traffic from sublime, coversions were so low I thought that maybe the traffic was coming form China. We did some filtering and found that it WAS indeed North AMerican traffic. The traffic is not crap. The way we are asking these guys to pay for our stuff is. Just look at IBill today. They are broke.
IBIll is broke due to mis management. Not because of subscriptions going down.

MorganGrayson 12-13-2005 12:13 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
First...welcome to Oprano, NickJ! :waving:

Thanks for sharing your business thoughts. I gave you points to get you started toward some Oprano gear! :)

NickJ 12-13-2005 12:13 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Anthony, you might be correct about that but all the billing cos are not makin gwhat they used to and that is a fact.

Oh and about the bandwidth.. this is not really a factor today...if... and this is important...if you have a site that converts....

that is converts at a 2 dollars or whatever. The reason bandwidth is even an issue is becuase of all the surfers that get free free free and don't join..

but if you have them hitting up a 2 dollar charge very often bandwidth will not be an issue and today bandwidth is pretty cheap when you buy it in bulk.



SWEET ! !. thanks for the Oprano Gift points :-) YOu made my day.

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 12:19 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickJ
Thanks for asking. According to my research, and I started thinking this way before google and Fox got together with the similar idea, and now also Napster too..

The files are wmv format and they are big. The biggest runs at 1.5kb/sec almost full screen so there is no skimpiong on quality. You bring up an excellent point about crap TGP traffic. I have found through trial runs that the reason that people think this traffic is crap is becuast

NO BODY WANTS TO JOIN A SITE AND OWN A MEMBERSHIP AND GET REBILLED OVER AND OVER AND THEN REMEMBER TO CANCEL. It is simple.

But, these people who comprise the "crap" traffic are just dying to get something like I am proposing. I would be happy to open the stats when this thing is operational in 2 weeks. Originally, when I was getting a lot of TGP/MGP traffic from sublime, coversions were so low I thought that maybe the traffic was coming form China. We did some filtering and found that it WAS indeed North AMerican traffic. The traffic is not crap. The way we are asking these guys to pay for our stuff is. Just look at IBill today. They are broke.
Its an interesting idea....

BUT....

What about processing costs?

Also...

Say I make 35.00 off a sale ,to my own paysites after processing deductions and I send 10,000 hits..that convert at 1 in 500...I make 20 sales = $700.


If yours converts at 10 times better..ie 1 in 50... one makes $400 to ones own paysites.

to stay still you are looking at 1 in 30.......

Now onto recurring...at a flat recurring rate of say 50% that means on average that the join will earn you 17.50 next month...which means the guy you got will have to buy 4 or 5 more videos....

Not gonna happen....

Most likely , At least 50% of the surfers you have don't even have credit cards lol

When the surfer has a hard on whether the downoad is $2 or $ 6 may not matter...

Once you get the surfer ready to put in his credit card extract the maximum dollars from it. :)

But it will to your bottomline...I'd research the price points...and factor in the member database

NickJ 12-13-2005 12:39 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
NickaT, Great pionts and I see you are really thinking about this. But, you have to remember I am not going to use a processor such as ccbill. I leared more about this stuff from my research. What I found was that the fact that people get rebilled and the charg back rates are so high this is why they have to charge like 19 percent per transaction. Once again it is this Membership method making the problem.. So if you dump the membership method, and get your own merchant account you will be paying as little as 1.5 % with 15 cents per transaction. This changes everything. And expect charge backs to be very small so you won't have many problems. But, you are going to have to have some cash in the bank to throw around so that the bank will give you your merchant account. Once they find out that you are not selling SUBSCRIPTIONS they are very willing to work with you.

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 12:41 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Still doesn't answer the conversion question

or the price point...

TheEnforcer 12-13-2005 12:48 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
This thread has certainly turned into a very good discussion. Welcome to Oprano NickJ! :okthumb:

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 12:53 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
NickJ...you better not be posting some longwinded post or my ADD will kick in and I'll never read it .....

;-)))

NickJ 12-13-2005 01:02 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
NickaT, sorry to not answer your question directly on your price point. Maybe you are much better at math than I am. And I am not going to launch this site and beg for affiliates like all those peeps on GFY. Have you seen naughty america now?? Offering 80% payouts. WTF?? I will be more than happy to run this all on my own. If smart hardworking people such as yourself want to give this affiliate program a shot great. I am not claiming that it will make affiliates more money but I think it will. Especially as we see this Subscription model decline more and more in the futute the suposed lower price points of my method will seem more appealing.

What is it that you do exactly. I am curious to know becuase you really seem to understand this biz very good.

Mike AI 12-13-2005 01:04 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Thread has become interesting.

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 01:05 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickJ
NickaT, sorry to not answer your question directly on your price point. Maybe you are much better at math than I am. And I am not going to launch this site and beg for affiliates like all those peeps on GFY. Have you seen naughty america now?? Offering 80% payouts. WTF?? I will be more than happy to run this all on my own. If smart hardworking people such as yourself want to give this affiliate program a shot great. I am not claiming that it will make affiliates more money but I think it will. Especially as we see this Subscription model decline more and more in the futute the suposed lower price points of my method will seem more appealing.

What is it that you do exactly. I am curious to know becuase you really seem to understand this biz very good.
80% rev share is a real good idea if the paysite is stocked with upsells out the ass and exit consoles from hell.. ;-)))

Shit I remember back in the day SweetT and MikeAI had a 110% Revshare or some shit...

NickJ 12-13-2005 01:11 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickatilynx
80% rev share is a real good idea if the paysite is stocked with upsells out the ass and exit consoles from hell.. ;-)))

Shit I remember back in the day SweetT and MikeAI had a 110% Revshare or some shit...
That answers my question about your background in this biz. You are a real Vet for sure.

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 01:13 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickJ
NickaT, sorry to not answer your question directly on your price point. Maybe you are much better at math than I am. And I am not going to launch this site and beg for affiliates like all those peeps on GFY. Have you seen naughty america now?? Offering 80% payouts. WTF?? I will be more than happy to run this all on my own. If smart hardworking people such as yourself want to give this affiliate program a shot great. I am not claiming that it will make affiliates more money but I think it will. Especially as we see this Subscription model decline more and more in the futute the suposed lower price points of my method will seem more appealing.

What is it that you do exactly. I am curious to know becuase you really seem to understand this biz very good.
So I'm gonna send my hard earn traffic to you?

You're not very good at math...you don't understand a high rev share model...and you don't claim I'll make more money with you????? So WTF I send you traffic cause you think "poor surfer" ???

Ummm ......sex and travel.... LOL

As for my background....

Started in 96..had the no1 Amateur site.

Owned Netpond from 97-2002
Made fucking millions... (not from Netpond , from my other interests..)
owned affiliate programs
owned traffic broking proggies..
won a couple of AVNs (never increased my money)
Spammed the living crap out of ever search engine
Was a notorious mail spammer in the old days...
Own Oprano...
Still own a few hundred dormant sites...
Making fucking more millions in nonadult....

And I never work hard...I work smart.

:)

Anthony 12-13-2005 01:17 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NickJ
What is it that you do exactly. I am curious to know becuase you really seem to understand this biz very good.
He's a webmaster. Still does html in notepad as well.

TheEnforcer 12-13-2005 01:20 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickatilynx
So I'm gonna send my hard earn traffic to you?

You're not very good at math...you don't understand a high rev share model...and you don't claim I'll make more money with you????? So WTF I send you traffic cause you think "poor surfer" ???

Ummm ......sex and travel.... LOL

As for my background....

Started in 96..had the no1 Amateur site.

Owned Netpond from 97-2002
Made fucking millions... (not from Netpond , from my other interests..)
owned affiliate programs
owned traffic broking proggies..
won a couple of AVNs (never increased my money)
Spammed the living crap out of ever search engine
Was a notorious mail spammer in the old days...
Own Oprano...
Still own a few hundred dormant sites...
Making fucking more millions in nonadult....

And I never work hard...I work smart.

:)
Every time someone outside this biz asks me what I do I am tempted to say "I do some work for the guy that used to be one of the biggest mass mailers on the web a few years ago." and see what kind of reaction I get.... :)

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 01:22 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony
He's a webmaster. Still does html in notepad as well.
I do too... LOL

Though I find it is easier to yell at a penguin and say "see this site? I like it.Steal the design , change it a bit and put it up"

;-))

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 01:23 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEnforcer
Every time someone outside this biz asks me what I do I am tempted to say "I do some work for the guy that used to be one of the biggest mass mailers on the web a few years ago." and see what kind of reaction I get.... :)
You work for me?

Fuck!

I don't tell myself anything....

;-)))

el pres 12-13-2005 01:39 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
When the US sorts out premium SMS billing and the gateways don't take a massive chunk of the $$. Then billing per video will do well, and chargebacks will become a thing of the past.

Doesn't really work as an affiliate model though, payouts are too small.
Own the content, have your own traffic network. BAM...

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 01:41 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by el pres
When the US sorts out premium SMS billing and the gateways don't take a massive chunk of the $$. Then billing per video will do well, and chargebacks will become a thing of the past.

Doesn't really work as an affiliate model though, payouts are too small.
Own the content, have your own traffic network. BAM...
give that man a cigar!!

:)

TheEnforcer 12-13-2005 01:58 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
That would be a big change to the way things are done to be sure...

Anthony 12-13-2005 01:59 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickatilynx
80% rev share is a real good idea if the paysite is stocked with upsells out the ass and exit consoles from hell.. ;-)))

Shit I remember back in the day SweetT and MikeAI had a 110% Revshare or some shit...
This is, btw, the paysite model Naughty America has. So NickJ giving them shit for having 80% revshare holds no water.

Dravyk 12-13-2005 02:57 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Nice thread indeed. And an excellent start at Oprano, NickJ. Welcome! http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/ok.gif

Biggy 12-13-2005 03:24 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
2000 was 6 years ago... 1998 was 8 years ago, and 1996 was 10 years ago.

Comparisons are getting old, the way it is.. is the way it is. It's so easy to get in this industry now, you are going to have people happy to make $100 a month. My guess is a lot of these people are super young and have never made real money in their lives.

Inabon 12-13-2005 03:31 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
aside from all the good math nick has added i have a question.


bandwidth.

you say videos are big.

how are you going to address the bandwidth issue cost of download against price you sell the download at?

Sin 12-13-2005 03:32 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Great read, this thread :)

DannyCox 12-13-2005 03:37 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickatilynx
Started in 96..had the no1 Amateur site.
*cough* *cough* :rolleyes:

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 03:46 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyCox
*cough* *cough* :rolleyes:
Flew past you in 97 ;-))))

You know why I remember?

Cause I used to hit you up for links and shit and you'd ignore me (or whoever was handling that...probably Evil ChrisLOL)!!!

So me and my brother went :

"Right!! Fuck it!!! We'll have them!!!

Plus I also remember ripping into blaise was it at WSS "I'm number one..why it it not appearing on my counter button , huh?"

Oh and Nero and Bode at sextracker calling me asking me to use his counter and offering all sorts of shit if I did...LOL

;-))



LOL

We were vindictive bastards then...lol

First one that we wanted to over take in the counters was "Khans Classy Ladies"...

Hence why I also joined Meat at CONDOM lol

DannyCox 12-13-2005 03:50 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickatilynx
Flew past you in 97 ;-))))

You know why I remember?

Cause I used to hit you up for links and shit and you'd ignore me (or whoever was handling that...probably Evil ChrisLOL)!!!
I can't even think of what Amatur website you're talking about. Especially back in '97. Who was it?

And yes, Evil Chris was handling the linking stuff in those days.

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 03:54 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyCox
I can't even think of what Amatur website you're talking about. Especially back in '97. Who was it?

And yes, Evil Chris was handling the linking stuff in those days.
I called it "Real Amateur Wives"

www.ilynx.com...

hence my name...

:)

And Evil Chris was a snobby bitch to me then....

;-)))

DannyCox 12-13-2005 04:20 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickatilynx
I called it "Real Amateur Wives"

www.ilynx.com...

hence my name...

:)

And Evil Chris was a snobby bitch to me then....

;-)))
I remember now! You wanted us to add you to the Amateur Links page on Carol's site, but since ilynx.com was just a mess of links to all sorts of things and only had a handfull of submitted Amateur pictures, we didn't think it fit into our scheme. We only linked to Single Girl Amateur sites in that area.

It really was nowhere near an "Amateur" website ;)

Anthony 12-13-2005 04:24 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
I smell a board war about to go!

Sin 12-13-2005 04:24 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
You too eh? :D

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 04:31 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyCox
I remember now! You wanted us to add you to the Amateur Links page on Carol's site, but since ilynx.com was just a mess of links to all sorts of things and only had a handfull of submitted Amateur pictures, we didn't think it fit into our scheme. We only linked to Single Girl Amateur sites in that area.

It really was nowhere near an "Amateur" website ;)
We had thousands of pics....ok....there were a few blind links too....

And amateur!!!!

Was too!!!! LOL

I stole all the amateur looking content I could find on the newsgroups!!!

;-)))

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 04:32 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Lets not get into what is amateur and what isn't!!!

;-)))

Nickatilynx 12-13-2005 04:35 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Anyway the surfers in the end decided whose was best...

It won "Best Amateur site as voted on by Surfers" at Internext...

Oh yeah...but then I suppose we did get a million or so more vistors a month....

;-)))

Dravyk 12-13-2005 04:35 PM
Re: How fucking sad is today's webmaster
 
Uh-oh!

http://oprano.com/msgboard/images/smilies/corn.gif It's going to be a looong day. Better have something to eat.


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