Please respond only if your 2003 porn income exceeded 50k

Again shamefully admitting .... down

if ups and downs stay close the same,
it only proves Wall Street saying:
"money don't disapear, they just change hands"
;-))))

True, but sometimes they loose value...

the total amount of money spent on online porn will forever increase. 20% will always make 80% of the money and the total value of that 20% will always grow. it's who is in that 20% that changes all the time. people who are making less and less are failing to adapt and become more competitive business people IMHO in an ever changing business environment.

what worked in 96 does not work today. what worked in 98 does not work today. what works today will probably not work so well in 06. .. yet so few people evolve or change. even today, most people still have the same crappy "me too" sites. same crappy "me too" member's areas. same unfulfilled promises to surfers and no more scams, spam and short cuts to make ends meet.

FREE TGP's!!!

Up. Way up.

the total amount of money spent on online porn will forever increase. 20% will always make 80% of the money and the total value of that 20% will always grow. it's who is in that 20% that changes all the time. people who are making less and less are failing to adapt and become more competitive business people IMHO in an ever changing business environment.

what worked in 96 does not work today. what worked in 98 does not work today. what works today will probably not work so well in 06. .. yet so few people evolve or change. even today, most people still have the same crappy "me too" sites. same crappy "me too" member's areas. same unfulfilled promises to surfers and no more scams, spam and short cuts to make ends meet.

FREE TGP's!!! [/b][/quote]
Is that indisputable fact JR?
That the total amount of money spent on online porn will forever increase

I hope so, but you never know


What you're saying was true years ago, a poor quality paysite with a poor quality members area and unfulfilled promises to members will fail quickly


TGP ran as it is now .....

..... isn't good

Listen to Oprano Radio when I discuss at the model

yeah, when is that scheduled?

yeah, when is that scheduled? [/b][/quote]
Check with Gonzo to make sure

But I believe it may be ......

Tomorrow Tueday July 20th at 9:00 EST (GMT-5)

Is that indisputable fact JR?
That the total amount of money spent on online porn will forever increase

I hope so, but you never know


What you're saying was true years ago, a poor quality paysite with a poor quality members area and unfulfilled promises to members will fail quickly


TGP ran as it is now .....

..... isn't good

Listen to Oprano Radio when I discuss at the model [/b][/quote]
What do TGP's have to do with anything?

The adult market is shrinking? the total value of online porn has decreased in the last few years? Not increased?

I would like to see that argument made.

JR - you're the one who put FREE TGP in your post so either your question is rhetorical or maybe YOU have the answer or maybe if I can get enough porn for free I never have to buy any?


Beyond that .....
No, the adult market at this time does not appear to be shrinking and the total value of online porn has not decreased, but it's very hard to come up with solid figures

As I stated I hope so but for arguments sake let's say WWIII breaks out. Do you think the adult on line market would continue to grow or would it shrink?

Duh .....

i voted down
but actually its about the same, its only down about 5% at the most

haha. i forgot i put that there. i was just trying to be ironic and forgot about your particular sensitivities on the issue.

:)

haha. i forgot i put that there. i was just trying to be ironic and forgot about your particular sensitivities on the issue.

:) [/b][/quote]
he he he :D :okthumb:

about the same for me, over $50k but not nearly enough :cryin: :unsure:


spaz :matey:

JR, I'm currently looking for evidence to support my theory that *less* people are purchasing porn than this time 2 years ago ...

This is a colin equation but i'm using made up numbers & doing a version for dummies LOL

If there were 10 000 porn surfers in 1997, 100 000 in 1998, 1 000 000 in 1999, etc ... and in 1997 sites converted at 1/100 consistently, 1/150 in 98 etc up till now where average is 1/500 to 1/1000, at what point does the number of porn surfers start to decrease?

What I see is that the number of porn SURFERS is increasing, but NOT the number of porn SUBSCRIBERS. For every 1000 porn surfers now, 999 are freeloaders!!!

Think about it carefully ... are subscribers really increasing, or just surfers?

As long as the $$$ keeps increasing...

I am Up from last year....i just made Serge's cut!

I don't make 50k but I am answering this thread anyway so bite my big fat ass. My income is definately up. I hopefully will reach the 50k mark this time next year or so...Good for those of you who do make 50k or more :rokk: It's all the same boring shit out there. The biz as a whole is ready for somethig fresh. I don't know what but something...Just thinking outloud :inlove:

MissMina,

>The biz as a whole is ready for somethig fresh. I don't know what but something...Just thinking outloud <

DUH! :rolleyes:

You already have the 'something fresh' ... 1 quick look through your sig links is enough to see that. "60 inches of sexy ass" :biglaugh:

Your tour has done a very good job of showing that you are a genuine bbw lovers site and not one of the template shitty tours that's in every program ... Nobody has what you have, not all together in the same collection and i'm assuming you have exclusive stuff in there of your 60 inch ass?! ;-)))

You don't need to come up with an 'idea' of what is the next big fresh idea ... just put a big flashing graphic EXCLUSIVE PICS & MOVIES FROM MY LOUNGEROOM on the top of your paysite and you have it - a new fresh something ;-)

If your income is growing, you must be doing something right ... yeah?

My income has gone up for sure. The exchange rates hurt for a while, but things are just way better now for me than they ever were. Can only hope the exchange rate goes back down to 50 US cents per Australian dollar and i'll be loving it.

me too choda :okthumb:
it sure makes it easier when everything is doubled ;-)

way up, conversions has been down though,
need better content, better traffic, more traffic!

Don't forget those in that 999 figure that have been burnt so badly, they'll never buy another membership again ;-)

Don't forget those in that 999 figure that have been burnt so badly, they'll never buy another membership again ;-) [/b][/quote]
it amazes me that no one accepts responsibility for anything in this biz. everyone points the finger at someone else. i agree with you. people are smarter now, they have been around the block, they have been fucked, they know all the tricks and games, they have been extremely dissapointed after joining now several paysites, shitty plug in content, missrepresentations... uhem! excuse me "over marketing" etc etc etc... the list goes on.

amazing that you can keep talking about converting hun traffic with non-nude sites at 1:200 and no one wants to hear it because it would deprive them of one more excuse.

That would be GMT +5 as I'm ahead here :P


:D

it amazes me that no one accepts responsibility for anything in this biz. everyone points the finger at someone else. i agree with you. people are smarter now, they have been around the block, they have been fucked, they know all the tricks and games, they have been extremely dissapointed after joining now several paysites, shitty plug in content, missrepresentations... uhem! excuse me "over marketing" etc etc etc... the list goes on.

amazing that you can keep talking about converting hun traffic with non-nude sites at 1:200 and no one wants to hear it because it would deprive them of one more excuse. [/b][/quote]
Yup, everyone has an excuse and loves to fingerpoint...
hell, I'd love to go back to the days when I could make my mortgage payment spamming newsgroups for a couple hours a day....

the biggest mistake I made during the "goldrush" was spending as fast as I was earning and not getting it through my thick skull to push even harder...I also exited adult for mainstream and learn hard lessons about how venture capital works and all about angel financing, etc.

But, that being said, I'm not going to sit around pissing and moaning about lost opportunities...

Also, to clarify, the non-nude 1:200 was on a hun listing, but wasn't as good with more general TGP's but was even better with specifically non-nude TGP's. Non-nude TGPs are what TGP2 could have been.

I'm awaiting a couple more Hun listings to see if that ratio holds out, but I'm confident it will...

everyone has their excuse and goddess knows I have my laundry list of them as well...

it amazes me that no one accepts responsibility for anything in this biz. everyone points the finger at someone else. i agree with you. people are smarter now, they have been around the block, they have been fucked, they know all the tricks and games, they have been extremely dissapointed after joining now several paysites, shitty plug in content, missrepresentations... uhem! excuse me "over marketing" etc etc etc... the list goes on.

amazing that you can keep talking about converting hun traffic with non-nude sites at 1:200 and no one wants to hear it because it would deprive them of one more excuse. [/b][/quote]
JR, WTF are you talking about?!??!

Who in this thread is trying to blame the industry problems on anyone else? Who is finger pointing? Who is looking for excuses?

Don't dismiss relevant points with the same patronizing crap you use on the GFYers ...

We all got the business here, to this point - wtf does that have to do with it now?! The only important thing is to understand *exactly* what we did wrong and how not to do it again!!! If you consider that to be 'looking for excuses' then I'll choose that category over yours - 'playing the blame game' - anytime.

JR, WTF are you talking about?!??!

Who in this thread is trying to blame the industry problems on anyone else? Who is finger pointing? Who is looking for excuses?

Don't dismiss relevant points with the same patronizing crap you use on the GFYers ...

We all got the business here, to this point - wtf does that have to do with it now?! The only important thing is to understand *exactly* what we did wrong and how not to do it again!!! If you consider that to be 'looking for excuses' then I'll choose that category over yours - 'playing the blame game' - anytime. [/b][/quote]
i was replying to sykks post. thats that the [quote] part is about. i should not have included your text in that.

i was commenting on the idea that everyone wants to blame anyone or anything but themselves. you still characterize surfers as "freeloaders". i think its just as accurate to call them "people have been dissapointed", "people who now know better", "people who have been scammed and fucked" etc etc... hence my reply and comments to Sykk and his subsequent agreement.

i don't buy into the idea that almost everyone is "free loaders"... how can you sell to people or understand your customers if you start out that potential relationship with the notion that they are "freeloaders" and not "potential customers"? I pay for porn sites all the time if it is something that i am interested in and i have access to more porn than any surfer out there... even to live girls who will fulfill any sexual fantasy in person that i want... or can dream up. if a site is unique, compelling and put together well and looks like its high quality content that promotes the content/model well and that looks like it is worth the membership (not showing signs of a scam or something that is misrepresented), i will pay just to check it out. why is the average surfer any different?

Because they have been schooled FREE FREE FREE
Offer a free membership to anyone you know not in the industry and many times you will hear "what do I need that for, I can get all the free porn I want"


No one will be able to get these figures but I would daresay there are more "freeloaders' than those who have been burnt

You do have a very valid point about those who got burnt, whether it was by overbilling, poor sites, not living up to promises. That is going to kill a surfers trust.

Overdelivering and underpromising has worked very well for me, If I didn't have 7 years of repeat subscribers who love the product and service it would be more painful


and I'd love to see non nude galleries on the Hun, great if you can do good conversion on that. Sort of proves my point about less is more

Because they have been schooled FREE FREE FREE [/b][/quote]
do FREE trials bother you that much?

do FREE trials bother you that much? [/b][/quote]
No sites that claim 50,000 (or have 50,000) free pics and movies bother me more than that much

JR - we've said many times the glut of free material is only a small part of the challenges we are facing

What do you think having a non nude gallery converting well is saying about surfers

JR, I agree with you .... I was always of the opinion that its just easier (and more valuable longterm) to develop unique content - no arguments from me there at all!

Build a good quality site so your surfer doesn't have anything to complain about ... that is, afterall, why you are charging them money for access to your content ... isn't it everyone?! ;-)

You'll fix 50% of your support problems this way and those customers I like - the ones who have a genuine reason for cancelling and who RE-SIGNUP months later!!! The other 50% are freeloading scumbags who can kiss my ass!!! Trial abusers who sign up to every site they see and cancel/refund/bitch continuously ... the ones who, no matter how much you help them, will still bitch and moan about the $3 they had to pay for downloading a few hundred of movies and saving all your pics!

We have had a few members give their cancel reason as 'couldnt save pics' .... NO SHIT DUMBASS, WE DID IT ON PURPOSE! :rolleyes:

Bottom line, half of your members are freeloading wankers, the other half are customers.

Something we've done to cut down on trial leeches is our trials don't give full access. They get a sample of the members area. can see our recent content updates and can see the links, they just don't all work without them upgrading.

We see very few complaints (a majority of them come from overzealous affiliates offering our full site for only $2.95) but when that's the case and we explain it to customers (that whacky thing called customer service), most understand it's a trial membership and they convert to that first month higher than average. We're very clear about it in our terms and there is nothing shady, but it saves on bandwidth leeches and results in better conversions from trial to that first month.

We also offer freebies like a free DVD and other goodies that are things I'd rather not discuss on an open forum that help increase trust and keep our members loyal and happy (and they tend to even trust us enough to buy memberships to other sites we recomend to them and scarily enough...they still keep their membership with us...). I can't take much of the credit as TheDoc and Kristin have built an amazing program and added a lot of nuances and I'm proud to be part of a team that dedicated itself to customer service little to no worries about chargeback issues.

Sorry if all of this sounds like I'm spamming the program, I can only base my opinions on what I know and have experienced myself.

CJ, are you ever going to make it back over to the States? We need to catch up and have these conversations in person like we used to ;-))

I am personally making way more this year than last.
Seems no matter how much experience you might think you have in this business, there is always something new to learn and discover.

Triplexcash is also way up. see Littleapril.com :awinky:

I hate to say that in the beginning, when members can't save pics and soon will not be able to save movies with DRM, that members will quit. Because other sites won't have that. Eventually though as more and more paysites do that, and that are few if any alternatives, such things will increase recurrings.

Dravyk, true but 'other sites' can worry about their own business model and I'll worry about mine!!!

The time spent trying to compete with the structure other companies have in place is better spent out marketing them with your own strengths ... while those other sites change domains and move hosts 20 times a year, trick customers etc - more and more of those surfers find my sites appealing - RE-EDUCATION. You can educate someone to shun something just as you can education them to look for it.

You can't save our pics ... but you also don't get toolbars or viruses installed when you browse our sites.

For every negative there is an equal positive.

You mean no one can download and save my pics anymore? :(



;-))))))))))

Sykk, CJ

I think your on to some things here

At least it's moving in a different direction

CJ, when I said in the beginning they can go elsewhere and later they couldn't ... I didn't mean at all don't do it. Just the opposite, the more sites that do that the sooner the better. It is inevitable that this IS the way things will be everywhere. And so the sooner others do it, the shorter the transition time.

Besides, like you, I'm in it for the long haul, not the quick buck. Any lost at the early stage is well worth it for stability over time and greater recurrings.

Yup, everyone has an excuse and loves to fingerpoint...
hell, I'd love to go back to the days when I could make my mortgage payment spamming newsgroups for a couple hours a day....

the biggest mistake I made during the "goldrush" was spending as fast as I was earning and not getting it through my thick skull to push even harder...I also exited adult for mainstream and learn hard lessons about how venture capital works and all about angel financing, etc.

But, that being said, I'm not going to sit around pissing and moaning about lost opportunities...

Also, to clarify, the non-nude 1:200 was on a hun listing, but wasn't as good with more general TGP's but was even better with specifically non-nude TGP's. Non-nude TGPs are what TGP2 could have been.

I'm awaiting a couple more Hun listings to see if that ratio holds out, but I'm confident it will...

everyone has their excuse and goddess knows I have my laundry list of them as well... [/b][/quote]
Sykk can you please stop talking about how good NN is ?

:)

Sykk can you please stop talking about how good NN is ?

:) [/b][/quote]
Sorry, I'll stop

it's not like anyone wants to listen anyways ;-)))

a few years back on there was a psychologist that wrote some really eye-opening articles about adult websites and surfers, and how many consumers of softcore porn are not receptive to explicit hardcore content.

the recent pushing the limits of good taste by the likes of max hardcore and others seems to me like a race to the bottom.

Sorry, I'll stop

it's not like anyone wants to listen anyways ;-))) [/b][/quote]
Not true - I LOVE IT!!!!!

but truthfully I'd probably keep finds like that to myself if they generate good $$

hehe - my surfers are free program whores. I love college kids with CC's. I ran a test with a paid trial deal - did 50K hits over a couple days & got like 12 sales.

Same traffic with a free/$1 program does 1:750-1000, tis a no brainer.

Besides, I only trust one person with my rebills - TTI. Revshare is asking to get ass raped, reducing the risk for program owners & paysites don't rebill for shit - if they did...the owners would jump at PPS - they'd make more money.

We got some filtered traffic we are testing on a new site... in this traffic there are:

- no tgp source
- no spam
- no blind links
- no none credit card countries
etc.

Currently converting 1/70 to 1/120 on a no trial, full membership price signup.

Just wanted to let you know that there is still traffic out there, that converts like it was 1997 :awinky: 12 sales out of 50K traffic, sounds like the same ratio I would have at convincing TGP owners to look at their surfers as potential customers instead of helpless wankers, who have to be protected from the arwful advertising interrupting a intense wanking session :okthumb:

We got some filtered traffic we are testing on a new site... in this traffic there are:

- no tgp source
- no spam
- no blind links
- no none credit card countries
etc.

Currently converting 1/70 to 1/120 on a no trial, full membership price signup.

Just wanted to let you know that there is still traffic out there, that converts like it was 1997 :awinky: 12 sales out of 50K traffic, sounds like the same ratio I would have at convincing TGP owners to look at their surfers as potential customers instead of helpless wankers, who have to be protected from the arwful advertising interrupting a intense wanking session :okthumb:[/b][/quote]
Do you do PPS? My aim is johanthon73. My email is john at handi-media dot com

This is for a new company we started - no affiliate program... yet.

This is for a new company we started - no affiliate program... yet.[/b][/quote]
It isn't TGP traffic. I haven't really jumped into the clusterfuck of TGP galleries...but I'm fearing I'm gonna have to step over to the dark side eventually. I've been looking at paid gallery spots...I feel so dirty.

If you open it up and wanna see if we can work something out - hit me up.