After reading the thread I was somewhat taken back by how proud some were that they've been in the industry for so many years. Seems they were almost gloating at the fact they've been in this business a long time.

I've been in adult since 2000 .. but in the end.. how long you stay in business is no reflection on how successful you are. Your ability to innovate and adapt is much more important then how long you've been in the biz.

Kind of like a kid saying "I'm older then you are so I know better." We all know that's most often not always the case.

Looking at the current state of our industry I'd almost be ashamed to say I was an old timer. Where are the leaders? A sense of proffesional community? Seems like a lot of the old timers are struggling, like most others. Worse yet.. the old timers crawl under a rock and leave everyone else scurrying for cover when things get tough.

I've seen more new people to the industry working their asses off to make a difference then I have the old timers. What old timer example did Hustler give to our industry? I wont name more names ... but I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.

Being an old timer today means you contributed to the way things currenlty are and lack the leadership to make possitive changes in our industry. If you didn't.... things would be different in our industry today. No offense but old timers.. and leaders in other industries ( mainstream entertainment for example ) have used their knowledge to better the industry. I could go on but I wont.

Some will say it's nobodies responsibility to do anything possitive in our industry..... it is what it is. Porn will always be around regardless of how fucked up and disjointed our industry is. They say elders are the glue that holds a community together.... well not in adult... every man for himself here thanks to our elders. So what makes old timers special in our industry? Why should you get a medal for sticking around so long and creating such a mess?

I can assume that that swipe was directed at myself as well as a few others. Id be more than happy to answer some of your questions as soon as you give us the highlights from your last performance.

Squirt you're in a bad mood tonight, which is strange for you. Everything okay?

hustler is not an old timer. they figured out how to use internet only about 2 years ago.

you want names of old timers that made a difference ? how about ARS, MaxCash, CE, CEN, Silvercash, Top Bucks, Python, WebQuest and bunch of other people you've never heard off.

And there certainly has been bunch of people that came into the biz later and made an impact creatively or otherwise BossHawg, Oxcash/NastyD and bunch of others

I can assume that that swipe was directed at myself as well as a few others. Id be more than happy to answer some of your questions as soon as you give us the highlights from your last performance.[/b][/quote]

Actually Gonzo I didn't even look at the posters.. I looked at the posts. Didn't even know you posted there and I don't know your history so don't take it as a personal attack. I don't know you or anything about you. If I was talking about you or someone else in particular I would have said so.

"Id be more than happy to answer some of your questions as soon as you give us the highlights from your last performance." I take it you've been around awhile... let me check your post.. hold on... ok so I see you said "Ifn your counting the BBS which we used credit cards doors to peddle smut....then you need to add the early 80's button. "

You've been around since the 80's? So you helped create this mess. Thank you!

"...as soon as you give us the highlights from your last performance." You don't have to answer my questions. If you haven't seen my last performance then you'r e pretty clueless to the current state of affairs in our industry. It's very hard to make possitive changes here now because the infrastucture that you people created is so fragmented. You started no professional associations... standards and practices... nothing. If the WWC can take hold of the net... you guys could have taken hold of the adult net... molded it and shaped it into a solid entity.

They tried, a few times.
But getting 10 webmasters to agree on where to have dinner takes 3 hours and ends up with people being pissed off... imagine trying to get 30 of them to agree on some basic industry standards.
Mission Impossible.

hustler is not an old timer. they figured out how to use internet only about 2 years ago.

you want names of old timers that made a difference ? how about ARS, MaxCash, CE, CEN, Silvercash, Top Bucks, Python, WebQuest and bunch of other people you've never heard off.

And there certainly has been bunch of people that came into the biz later and made an impact creatively or otherwise BossHawg, Oxcash/NastyD and bunch of others[/b][/quote]
"you want names of old timers that made a difference ? how about ARS, MaxCash, CE, CEN, Silvercash, Top Bucks, Python, WebQuest and bunch of other people you've never heard off."

If you knew what I now know about half of those companies you wouldn't have listed them as making a difference... at least not a totally possitive difference. When the Acacia thing is said and done I'd like to check back to this list and see how many heads have rolled. However if discovery isn't allowed on the case.. it may never come out. It is what it is.

There is too much noise in the industry you can't see your hand in front of your godamn face!

you have a valid point there

but many people have tried doing something but pretty much all have failed.

This industry doesnt inforce changes unless its forced upto by Credit Card companies or processors

Yeah well you know it's amazing that the reigns of the internet had been pulled in my WWC ... the whole internet! We couldn't get a few old timers to band together so things make sense here?

The person I originally went to when entering the industry (he doesn't post on boards) is a great example. Everything you expect in a business. From his example I thought the shallow back stabbing every man for himself image our industry had was false.. or greatly exagerated. Man am I glad to find a gem here and there because they are hard to find here I'm telling you! And seeing people gloat about how long they've been around in this mess is a joke. Gloat about the possitive things you've done here not the number of years you've existed in this sewer.

you have a valid point there

but many people have tried doing something but pretty much all have failed.

This industry doesnt inforce changes unless its forced upto by Credit Card companies or processors[/b][/quote]

Our industry is like any other.. regulate yourself or be regulated. We are going to be regulated to death if we don't get our act together and the only people that have the power to do it are the elders... the old timers... and I just see them sitting on their asses gloating about how long they've been around. Get off your asses and do something! Put up or shut up

Actually Gonzo I didn't even look at the posters.. I looked at the posts. Didn't even know you posted there and I don't know your history so don't take it as a personal attack. I don't know you or anything about you. If I was talking about you or someone else in particular I would have said so.

"Id be more than happy to answer some of your questions as soon as you give us the highlights from your last performance." I take it you've been around awhile... let me check your post.. hold on... ok so I see you said "Ifn your counting the BBS which we used credit cards doors to peddle smut....then you need to add the early 80's button. "

You've been around since the 80's? So you helped create this mess. Thank you!

"...as soon as you give us the highlights from your last performance." You don't have to answer my questions. If you haven't seen my last performance then you'r e pretty clueless to the current state of affairs in our industry. It's very hard to make possitive changes here now because the infrastucture that you people created is so fragmented. You started no professional associations... standards and practices... nothing. If the WWC can take hold of the net... you guys could have taken hold of the adult net... molded it and shaped it into a solid entity.[/b][/quote]
I didnt take it as a personal attack.

Obviously Im pretty clueless then or I wouldnt have specifically asked you to tell me about your last performance. Im actually interested in the development of this thread.

Your not exactly correct when you say I helped create this...I merely saw what it was before what you have today and worked to promote the concept of buying online.

This mess was created by a very select few indiviiduals and companies and their greed. The strip mining mentality that they have and some of them still continue with today has created this mess.

I will agree that the industry has no glue...Id like to think that we are stirring up a pot of that here on Oprano. I dont think you can lump all of us that have been around in a "you caused this mess" pile.

One other thing we will agree on...and Ive been teasing toward is that this industry is headed for a major fist fight. Its not the old timers you need to worry about...its the porn royals that want to reclaim thier slice of the pie that you and I have taken from them.

So tell a dumbassed country boy about your latest ...?

Im excited to start this discussion.

I didnt take it as a personal attack.

Obviously Im pretty clueless then or I wouldnt have specifically asked you to tell me about your last performance. Im actually interested in the development of this thread.

Your not exactly correct when you say I helped create this...I merely saw what it was before what you have today and worked to promote the concept of buying online.

This mess was created by a very select few indiviiduals and companies and their greed. The strip mining mentality that they have and some of them still continue with today has created this mess.

I will agree that the industry has no glue...Id like to think that we are stirring up a pot of that here on Oprano. I dont think you can lump all of us that have been around in a "you caused this mess" pile.

One other thing we will agree on...and Ive been teasing toward is that this industry is headed for a major fist fight. Its not the old timers you need to worry about...its the porn royals that want to reclaim thier slice of the pie that you and I have taken from them.

So tell a dumbassed country boy about your latest ...?

Im excited to start this discussion.[/b][/quote]
Do a search on GFY under squirt and see a bit on Leenoga.com

I have been most vocal on GFY simply because you can reach the most amount of people there. I started originally on Ynot and wont go into details about my experience there.

I'm sure you know that seeing the true reality of our demise is disapointing to say the least. When people who want to make a difference realize that a total overhaul of our industry is needed.. it's disheartening. It's like waking up thinking there's a leak in the basement to find the whole town is flooded.

The old timers are responsible for letting this happen.

I dont agree with that statement at all.
Some greedy fucks are responsibile for all this.
See the bigger picture and youll realize that there is only 2 things that matter....

1. Traffic - Without it you aint got anything. "Andy Dunn"
2. Billing -They gotta pay for it somehow. And this is the more crucial of anything. You tried to get a pay site approved thru Visa as of late?

I dont agree with that statement at all.
Some greedy fucks are responsibile for all this.
See the bigger picture and youll realize that there is only 2 things that matter....

1. Traffic - Without it you aint got anything. "Andy Dunn"
2. Billing -They gotta pay for it somehow. And this is the more crucial of anything. You tried to get a pay site approved thru Visa as of late?[/b][/quote]
"only 2 things that matter....

1. Traffic - Without it you aint got anything. "Andy Dunn"
2. Billing -They gotta pay for it somehow. And this is the more crucial of anything. You tried to get a pay site approved thru Visa as of late"

Visa... hell...

Two days ago I'm online working my ass off to see my sales are slowing down on one of my sites that uses a particular billing company. Soon after that I get an email from the billing company telling me that out of 866 pages on this website... 1 page.. the join page... has the word "twink" in the meta tags. They had suspended my billing until the word was removed. I was concerned because I take my business very seriously.. so I removed the word and emailed the billing company to notify them and to request a list of words to stay away from.... only to get a reply back stating that they don't give the list out because it's constantly changing???? HUH? Not to mention that this billing company had never had this policy before.. no list.. and certainly who would have thought the word "twink" would be banned? Mind you the Websters Dictionary definition for the word "twink" is: "Also
reported on the Usenet group soc.motss; may derive from gay slang
for a cute young thing with nothing upstairs (compare mainstream
`chick')."

So Visa is the least of our worries.. and worst case they drop our industry all together and we resort to dialers, echeck, mastercard, 900#'s, debit cards etc.

"Some greedy fucks are responsibile for all this." yeah.. the greedy old timers that you guys let take over this industry and shape it into the mess it's in today. Those who sit idly by are just as guilty as those who did this.

Thats a pure crock of shit.
You cant hang that one on me in the least.
I never promoted Xpix or anyone of that ilk.

Matter of fact when some were making money with dialers I refused.
When I make a site I try to follow 2 rules
1. I try and build something that Id enjoy and want to pay for.
2. I avoid any methodology of billing that I would consider deceptive and not allow me to sleep well at night.

Im a little fucked up in that I care about what I give to people if I take their money.

Right now Im not worried about content. My concern is with how people are going to pay for this in the near future.
Without the bling...the egg timer goes ding...and times up for a profitable industry. Its a business plain and simple.

Too funny.... :rolleyes:

Squirt, you've been around for a while. You just recently got into the boards and networking and such.
It could be said that you're just as responsible, since you didn't bother to speak up until the shit got thick. A year ago, two years ago, you weren't trying to help out or get anything organized... you were keeping to yourself.

My point is, this can be looked at a lot of different ways, and there's no use pointing the finger. Honestly, what good is it doing you? It's getting you pissed, it's probably going to get some other people pissed, and these could be folks that could do worlds of good helping your business grow.

We should stop trying to lay the blame for the past, and instead work *forward*.

interesting sig...

a long story.

97 but i didnt start my own shit until 2000.

i worked in the video/film side (behind the camera) of this industry before i grasped the internet part of it.

:stout:



Last edited by Fletch XXX at Nov 15 2003, 06:12 PM

interesting sig...[/b][/quote]
DJ, did you open a pawnshop ? :D

The only people i know that can garantee 20%+ are pawnshop owners

wrong fucking thread again....

bbs + fletch + beer + herbs = shat

:stout:

Quite frankly I think how long you've been in this industry matters a great deal.

For instance, the programs I sell are either older programs or those owned by people who have been in the business for quite some time. I personally wouldn't sell a product from someone who is recently on the scene - there's too much BS out there.

And as I was saying to Wig today (whose kid, BTW, is even cuter in person :inlove: ), I've never screwed anyone over since 1996 (and even as far back as 1993 from the audiotext days), I've never cheated anyone and I've never broken any sponsor's rules. As a result, I've built up a level of trust in this business. This will come in VERY handy when I set in motion my diabolical plan to screw everyone over at once and move to Wyoming. :P

We old timers have seen the scams come and go, we've heard "the sky is falling" about 10 times, and we know who to trust and who to smile to and walk away from.

I'm not saying that those new in the industry can't build up that same information and reputation, but it's not easily obtained these days. :)

Listen Carrie.. I respect you and you are a gem!

"Squirt, you've been around for a while. You just recently got into the boards and networking and such.
It could be said that you're just as responsible, since you didn't bother to speak up until the shit got thick."

Well you know Carrie.. to be honest.. before the whole Visa thing happened.. when I first started in adult.. I went to a few resource boards at first glance I thought it was just a bunch of advertising and people peddling for business. I thought online adult was just a bunch of mom and pops making their way.. only to find later that a lot of "big guys" control a lot of the industry.. and are even today trying to patent our industry as a way of control for the future (not acacia). So no.. I didn't step up and try to change things.. and you know something.. when my face was plastered all over television regarding my court case and my son possibly being taken away because of my website the industry didn't reach out to me! I didn't get emails from fellow webmasters in our industry supporting me. Strangers on the street stopped me and gave me their support, people subscribed to my site and emailed support.. but ZERO from my industry!

"It's getting you pissed, it's probably going to get some other people pissed, and these could be folks that could do worlds of good helping your business grow." Are you serious? Yeah I see the big guys lining up to take guys like me in to make them more successful.. NOT! I have found a few gems.. and those people know where I'm coming from when I post. I always try and make myself clear. If people are pissed so be it. Maybe they will try to change things as well? As I stated above... I didn't get support from my industry before.. why would it happen now? It wont.

And in the end what does it all matter anyway? In the big picture this is all trivial.. and when it comes down to it.. I'm a part of an industry that I'm liking less and less every day. But I love what I do. I like having my sites and filming porn. I really like people watching what I create and paying me to do so.



Last edited by Squirt at Nov 15 2003, 06:51 PM

"I'm not saying that those new in the industry can't build up that same information and reputation, but it's not easily obtained these days."

yeah well.... there ya go! Nothing worthwhile is easy anyway... but the amount of effort one has to put forth nowdays is unrealistic. There is too much noise in our industry and unless anything new comes up consider this thread closed as far as I'm concerned.

"I'm not saying that those new in the industry can't build up that same information and reputation, but it's not easily obtained these days."

yeah well.... there ya go! Nothing worthwhile is easy anyway... but the amount of effort one has to put forth nowdays is unrealistic. There is too much noise in our industry and unless anything new comes up consider this thread closed as far as I'm concerned.[/b][/quote]
Interesting...

Sorry you didnt see making the effort more than a bunch of noise.

In this business, "roots" are important. Call it experience, of which there is little substitute.

squirt I'm going to have to ask you

Please tell us old timers what we should have done and how anyone is able to control any other companies action?

Maybe it was a mistake when phone sex companies first came onto the internet going with monthly billing (or 2/3 day trial to monthly recurring) models as opposed to a per minute billing model

You make allusion to some way the adult on line internet business should be different

Can you please tell us how you think it should be?


Beyond that I am going to respectfully disagree with you and say it does matter how long you've been in business

Those of us with 6-7+ years have seen a few things, we've seen companies, people and scams come and go. We know who to trust and who did what way back when. If we're still here and making $ we must have learned something and know a little bit. We've adapted, survived and prospered

and those who "striped mined" and got out with millions and are laying somewhere on a sunny beach ..... can you blame them?

And then theres are those that are still running from the law.
From a selfish standpoing I guess I coudnlt blame them.

For those that have chosen this as a business...theyve certainly fucked it up real good for the rest of us.

You know, talk of "who created this mess" is really kind of pointless. Not quite as silly as talking about "roots" in an industry under 20 years old - but close. Longevity/experience is important - however, in this industry there is a VERY big "but" attached to that.

I doubt very seriously that this industry is much different than any other in its infancy.

In the early days of almost any industry there is kind of a "wild west" period where a few figure out how to make some money - and then the crooks follow. The gloom, despair and agony you've heard people wailing about for the past year and a half - maybe longer - is just a reflection of the fact that the industry is maturing - the "wild west" days are ending.

So ... the big "but" that I attach to "[l]ongevity/experience is important" is that the changes that have and will come may render a good part of the experience accumulated to date irrelevant. How much of it will be rendered that way remains to be seen.

I make a point of reading this board specifically because of the % of folks who've been around the block a time or three. Doesn't mean I expect them to give me the 12 Steps to Financial Success; doesn't even mean I believe everything they say (or ANYTHING a few might post). I've learned just as much from some folks who haven't been around much longer than me - and I stay completely away from the advice of folks who never seem to accomplish much themselves but do talk a good line.

Yup...sure is getting tougher...might be time to hang up the guns soon ;-)))

Trains have guards on 'em , and the bank are gitting harder to rob.

Old Serge has now gone and got himself a position as Marshall of Oprano....and he don't tolerate no rowdiness. ;-)))

:okthumb:

I see this thread as turning into a bitchfest which isn't doing anyone any good.

Vick I could sit here and create an infrastructure for the adult net that would make things a lot better. But when it comes down to it... I'd be spinning my wheels as usual. You could throw a lot of good ideas and information out there and not using that information makes it worthless.

So we all sit here and talk about how bad things are. We sit here and talk about what's happened in the past. We sit here and talk about how to make things better.. and you know what... we aren't changing a damn thing doing it so it's pointless.

Nobody here is going to make a dent in the situation so there is no point. In the end people are just going to keep fucking with us.. squeezing us.. the big guys, visa, billing companies, the government ... the list goes on. I personally film all of my material.. what is on my site was conceived by me, pursued by me and created by me... it's amazing watching all of these outside entities trying to take control of what I do, how I do it, who I do it with, and the money I make from it.

I'm sure if I went back to business as usual and left the boards... I wouldn't be the first .... nor the last. I'm sure those in our industry that venture to the online "community" are dissapointed daily.. I'm just more vocal about it then some... it just takes a really bad day for me to let loose and say how I feel about the shit in our industry.

Nick, will you be starring in the remake of "The Shootist"? :yowsa:

I have been involved in many industries.....

I was in the military for 8 years...
Wore many different hats in the Liquor business for 9 years...
Been in the garment industry for 2 years...
Wrote software for a medical billing system for 2 years...
Have done direct marketing 7 or 8 years...
Was at an adult hosting company for 2 years...
Have done the webmastering thing part time for 2 years....
Within some of sthose industries I dealt with folks in other industries on a daily basis...
Suppliers..
List Vendors...
Computer salesman...
Freight Companies...
Customs brokers..
and Lawyers...
Within all of the above mentioned job experiences I have also been involved in the data processing industry because I am a designer/programmer/analyst...

Been exposed to many different business models within these industries...

From my experience...

The adult internet is no more and no less fragmented/cutthroat/backstabbing/corrupt then any of the others...

There is just less "illusion" within the adult net industry.... Shit within this industry is done openly unstead of behind closed doors...

Think about it.... Who really went after Microsoft ? Consumers...nope. The states, nope, they were followers. The Feds, nope, they were doing what several companies asked them to. AOL, Netscape and several others instigated against Microsoft. Why, because Microsoft was the leader. Gates and Co had made bundles of money and they wanted to take him down in the worst way possible....

AOL took a nine billion write off on it's books because they were cooking the books big time...

Enron went down because they were cooking the books...

These were direct ripoffs of the consumer by the leaders of their respective industries.

There are tons more.

In business, there is no loyalty. It is whoever can get it done the fastest/cheapest... It is whoever takes you out for dinner the most. It is whoever spends the most money on you.... Business is based on the nastiest of realities at all time...

And one of the number one rules is "never let your competition know what you are doing"... Who is the competition ? Everyone else within your industry that is going after the same piece of pie that you are.

So things that we yell about in this industry are status quo to many mainstream businesses....

In the garment industry... You get an order for 500 "medium size" coats... You only have 200 on the rack... So you pull the labels out of 150 large and 150 small, relabel them as medium and send them on out the door. Getting that order out takes precedence... Are you screwing your customer ?

Liquor industry there is lots of "legal" money under the table. Suppliers would often offer "sales incentives" on certain months. So, for example, you might get a $3.00 "legal kickback" per case on Chivas for all your sales in September. So what do you do, you underreport Sales in July and August, so you can overreport your sales in September and take advantage of the $3.00 per case... A reverse shave sort of, but I was at 2 different companies, one a giant in the industry and one a small player, in two differentstates, but they both played the gane the same way.

Foremost/McKesson (Foremost Foods, Mckesson Wine and Liquors, McKesson Drugs, McKesson Chemicals) was the Liquor "Giant" I was with. There was a big to do within the company while I was with them. McKesson Chemical was having record profits. McKesson Drugs was having horrible profits. McKesson hadd a policyt that a sister company was always a preferred vendor. You were always supposed to buy from a preferred vendor when possible. So, McKesson Chemivcal was selling to McKesson Drugs at about twice the going rate thereby inflating the hell out of McKesson Chemical's numbers and killing McKesson Drug's numbers. This WAS business as usual.

The Medical Claims processing software I was writing was to try to save the ass of a company that had been selling vaporware for 2 years before I came to the company. That company sold 200 licenses at $600.00 a pop in one year to people to start their own home business. The software they were licensing was under a court order under another companies name not allowed to be sold. So, they formed a different company to sell it. Turned 1.2 mill before anyone hit them in court. They had to give back approximately half the money eventually. Business as usual.

To think that it is normal for rival businesses to care about one another is Naive at best and from my experience a feeling that is pretty unique to the adult net. There is a lot of symbiosis that occurs within this industry. Program a trades traffic with programs b and c who share additionally with programs d, e and f, who share it back with company a. But these companies all sharing traffic are rivals, don't ever forget that. Company a would gladly swallow company b whole if it had the chance. And company F would gladly assfuck anyone else within the chain to get what it considers it's fair share of the pie.. And every company's view is that the fair share of the pie is the whole fucking thing.

whew... I have to check on my daughter, so I will post this then come back in a bit and see if I made any sense :)





Last edited by sarettah at Nov 16 2003, 12:40 AM

The hell I will , Dravyk ;-)))

"""You need people like me.
You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers, and say "that's the bad guy."
So, what'll that make you?
Good?
You're not good.
You just know how to hide, how to lie.
Me, I don't have that problem.
Me, I always tell the truth... even when I lie. """


;-))))

To continue....

To blame the people who have been here the longest for the problems of this industry is ridiculous...

The people who are still around since 96 are the survivors of the industry. Many were here that are not here now. Many are no longer allowed to do business on the net. The people who you see around that have been around since 96 are the ones who either recognized various things happening and moved out of the firing line before there was trouble ro who recognized scams as they were forming or who were at the time still so newbie clueless as to not be close enough to get hurt yet. These people survived, some with their reputation intact, some with a little tarnish here and there, but they were pioneering two industries at one time. The internet and the "mainstream porn world". Prior to the net, porn was done in titty bars/adult book stores/peep shows etc. BBS's firstly and the internet secondly pioneered selling porn to the people that did not usually buy porn. Prior to the 80's, the only place to find "adult content" was in places that nice people didn't go. With the advent of the computer BBS/Phone Sex/Audiotext and then the internet, Nice people could get porn and nobody would know about it. A whole new comsuner base, never been touched before. And like any industry discovering an entirely new audience for their product, the original pioneers of the adult internet industry raped the audience for all it was worth. Just as any other industry would/does do. The leaders of this industry learned the most valuable lessoni learned so far in this industry and they have passed it on to us and on to the mainstream internet sector as well. What was the lesson ? The lesson was "how to get folks to pull out that credit card and enter the number into the little box on the screen". The original pioneers of the concept made millions and millions of dollars. And all those that were around them made millions too because they sent the original folks traffic and they were paid for the traffic. The folks that have been around the longest have also seen many many ways to accomplish that same task of getting that credit card number. They have seen people get rich, they have also seen people go to jail. But they survived, they were smart ebough, quick enough, strong enough, tough enough to survive. Why should they share the benefit of their survival with anyone else ? What is in it for them ? But most of them do share. Many of them hire folks and groom them and teach them and show them the ropes. Many of them try to make a difference in the business, publically and quietly. But to expect them to put their ass on the line for another company ? Garbage, shouldn't happen and they shouldn't be asked to.

That has been one of my favorite truisms through the years :)

sarettah,

Good posts. I read them , and they never mention $$$ ;-))))

definitely good shit :)

Old timers being leaders? Where? Anyone I've known since '84, when I started investing in adult has come into this industry to do one thing make money, not to lead anything or anyone. This business is as competitive as it gets.

Just because someone sets up an affiliate program that turns into a monster marketing force within a couple years, doesn't mean they are some kind of captain of the industry or messiah.

You can't blame anyone for the highly fragmented state of adult today. What happened to dismantle the former iron power grip of the organized crime families that controlled most of the porn industry was the advent of technology. Its power to change things was and still is unstoppable.

The power shift started with the phone sex industry. When I got into it very early on, I absolutely expected a knock on the door with a couple of "the boys" saying, "Hi, we're gonna be your partners." But it never happened. I eventually got to know some of the old timers in the vid biz who were connected and most were not "Tony Soprano" style intimidating. Just tough Italian and Jewish guys, with subtle ties to the old style LCN crews out of New York, out to make a buck like anyone else. The implication and vibe was always there, but it was never taken to baseball bat "let's go out to the park" levels. LOL.

When the Net came into being right after that, the writing was on the wall instantly that the porn industry was going to be turned upside down and inside out for good, since any geek would have the ability to become a pornographer with instant access, with minimal capital requirements, to peddle smut to the masses and bypass all the traditional wholesale porn distribution channels that had been previously so tightly controlled by organized crime families and just a handful of non LCN players.

Most of the old timers missed the boat completely to keep any semblance of power within the new high tech distribution arena that unfolded. They weren't tech types and many still don't get it in my opinion. Guccione's demise is a classic example of someone not willing to effectively come to terms with the reality of a changing marketplace and make the changes necessary to retain their market share.

I think a lot of the old timers are still sitting back in disbelief shaking their heads saying "how the hell did all these young Turks take over everthing."



Last edited by KRL at Nov 16 2003, 01:39 AM

Nick, will you be starring in the remake of "The Shootist"? :yowsa:[/b][/quote]
The Shootist ??

I was thinking more along the lines of Blazing Saddles... :yowsa:



Last edited by nlphoto at Nov 16 2003, 12:41 AM

Wow, Sarettah, I looked at your long preaching posts and I moved on. Now I know why people bitch at me when I run at the mouth. I want short posts at 2 a.m. :yowsa:

Squirt, give 'em hell! I don't agree with everything you are saying, but I understand your frustration. What you are doing to fight Acacia is appreciated. Please don't throw in the towel because a few old-time losers are doing nothing. There are far more new webmasters who are sitting on their asses ignoring the problems.

Take a break and play with your son and your dog, and return to fight the battle. :inlove:

Whats an LCN ?

some people make a long post and its always worth reading
others make a long post and its always worth skipping



Squirt, you should always take confucy's advise :headwall:

Commonly used DOJ (US Department of Justice / FBI) law enforcement term for the american mafia / organized crime families. LCN = La Cosa Nostra. "This thing of ours"

I personally don´t care how long you have been in the industry - its what kind of business you run that I care about, and how we can profit from it B)

Which genre do you fall into?
Youve told us all that you were hre at the begining of time yet you cant even post a clickable signature...so that dont make you a webmster...new or old?

Good point!

The next question will be... If future goverments, and banks makes it alot more risky and expensive - will that make things reverse?

p.s. there are no leaders in the adult on line entertainment industry
(but a lot of followers) - there are some big companies but still no leaders

It's been said before but ...... you can't get 12 webmasters/company owners to agree on where to go to dinner much less agree on doing anything else

To think there is any type of "community" in the adult on line entertainment industry is an illusion

We all tend our own gardens

good post and you definatelly have a point

interesting sig...[/b][/quote]
not really...I sold house and sit on over mil in cash. I asked Jim to call me...did he?

nope...