Mike AI Posted: Feb 24 2003, 04:48 PM

HAHA Serge, I think you are right....

Though isn't "jewing down" a racial stereotype?
************************************************** *

So, do Jewish people belong to their own race ? Or is Judaism just another religion....

I know you can convert to Judaism (I used to read Fuke Lord before he became a duck), but I never ever heard of someone being able to convert to a different race.....

Sarretah,
it all depends on WHO is doing the Jewing Down....
;-))

I dont know, is it anything like "going down" ?
********************************************

should read
Goim Down
;-))

Ok, I went to the dictionary and these are the two definitions that I found that might be applicable:
***********************************************
a : a family, tribe, people, or nation belonging to the same stock b : a class or kind of people unified by community of interests, habits, or characteristics <the English race>

a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group b : BREED c : a division of mankind possessing traits that are transmissible by descent and sufficient to characterize it as a distinct human type
*************************************************

By the first definition, any group with shared interests becomes a race, ie; by that definition we who gather here at Oprano could be characterixed as "The Adult Webmaster Race"...

That is not what I meant in the poll....

I meant the second definition when I referred to race... A group that passes down characteristics, etc... ie: the Cacucasian race

Just to clarify....

By the first definition, any group with shared interests becomes a race, ie; by that definition we who gather here at Oprano could be characterixed as "The Adult Webmaster Race"...
******************************************

hmmm...Peaches,
can you pass your ASSets to the rest of "community" so the "community" can qualify for a "race"?
;-))))))

Ouch! That hurt.

It's a phrase I learned growing up ... not one I use any more. As my grandmother would have said, "There's no need for talk like that ... it's jest ignerant."



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Feb 24 2003, 08:18 PM

PD,
is she aideshen kopf too?
;-))

Talking about Jews....

in our family the guru on Judaism is...JMM!

I hear quotes from him every day that:
Lawyer/accountant should be Jewish,
Decorator should be Gay
and Dentist should NOT be Jewish...
and how important that is to never mix up them
;-)))

we built our entire lkife according to his teachings
;-)))

It seems to depend on whether or not it's a Jew or non-Jew making the reference. Just like how black people can be each other's nigga's but unless a white person and a black person are tight you wouldn't dare make the reference. Hipocracy, as always.

Brad

Hypocritical? How so? I would imagine that the percentage of "antisemitc Jews" is roughly the same as the number of blacks racist against blacks. Both Black and Jewish friends have told me they've seen or learned of biased attitudes from people they'd known for years after some odd incident or another.

Simply put, someone of that kind dissing their own kind makes it pretty easy to assume it's in jest, sarcastic, whatever. With someone else, you can never be sure.



Last edited by PornoDoggy at Feb 24 2003, 09:41 PM

"Simply put, someone of that kind dissing their own kind makes it pretty easy to assume it's in jest, sarcastic, whatever. With someone else, you can never be sure."

Aren't assumptions the root of ignorance? The majority of people aren't racist and presuming that they are is lousy as well.

Brad

It's not hypocritical for blacks and Jews to bust on themselves but still be against racism and bigotry. To mock one's own self and kind is part of most cultures. I know Italians who do it too. But outsiders who do it may or not be bigots, but it's pretty normal to presume that an outsider who is making derogatory comments about a race, religion, culture has some bigoted views and stereotypes. Problem with stereotypes - there's some truth to all of them.

There are Jewish anti-semites and Blacks who don't like other blacks. That's their opinion from their dealings with their own kind. As a Jew there are things I'm embarassed by that many Jews do. Same as some blacks are embarassed by parts of black culture.

Jews and Blacks used to get along much better. But there is a lot of resentment today towards Jews by blacks.

Most people I've had this discussion with say there is no Jewish race.

Does "Jewish" mean religion or the people?

At minimum, "Jewish" is a religion and a nationality. There are people who are considered "jewish" that are atheists but have never been to Israel.

The question is what exactly IS race? It's a human contruct that helps us to identify people - usually by distinguishing features that are characteristic of somewhat but not completely isolated genetic pools. When do genetic pools not mix? When people are geographically isolated or for social reasons. Aboriginal Australian never mated with American Indians because they never saw each other. Arabs and Jews don't often intermarry because young Arab kids don't care for dreidels and who wants to pray in that funny way anyway?

The distinction between race and nationality is quite blurred. Mentally, we seem to think of race as a larger category than nationality. Asian is race but Chinese is nationality. Some people though will even refer to a " German Race". Blur.

Geneticists will tell us that there is no fail-safe litmus test for race. In fact, features like nose shape, skin color and hair texture exist in separate and distinct geographical regions. They happen to overlap enough in the areas that we have decided to mentally label people. "Black" people are of brownish color, have nappy hair and flat noses. A cross-section of these features overlaps in certain parts of the African continent and therefore become the stereotype.

It is a quite fashionable to say that there really is no such thing as race. No non-arbitray test can decide what race a person is. If a grandparent was white and all the other grandparents were black, is that person white or black? Can they check either box on the next census? The definition becomes somewhat circular. That grandparent themself may have had an asian great grandmother.

For me though, there are many human constructs that could not pass a test of scientific identification that are quite useful anyway. If someone says "he is Asian", we all think of someone like Anthony, well not quite like him, kind of like him. Sometimes "common sense" triumps science.

Oh, what was the question again? "Is Jewing down a Racial Steretypr?" Since racial lines are arbitrary and decided by us humans, I guess "Jewish" could be considered a race if enough people think of it as race. What do other people think? There is no greater test. Good thing we have a poll.

.... in a related story......


"RELIGIOUS MERGER CREATES 900 MILLION HINJEWS
Attainment of Nirvana Still Goal, But Not So Important
That You Should Miss Cousin Vijay's Bar Mitzvah

New Delhi, India — Hinjew leaders today conceded the merger of Hinduism and Judaism has not worked out as planned, as instead of forming a super-religion to fight off the common Islamic enemy, they have instead created a race of 900 million people who, no matter how many times they are reincarnated, can never please their mothers.

"On paper, this was a textbook alliance — two smaller competitors join forces to take on a larger adversary," said New Delhi resident Chandra Gopan. "But the synergies are just not there. For instance, I still believe I must pursue my own dharmic path to ultimate happiness, but when I get there, I just know my mother will find something wrong with it."


Military officers, in particular, have found assimilation difficult. "We were all excited at first, especially about the Kama Sutra parts, but it's not going to work," Israeli Col. Benyamin Telluk said at a joint press conference with Indian officers. "I mean, just this morning, I was showing Col. Bhadrak here pictures of my family, and he said my wife was a cow."

"I said his wife reminds me of a cow," Bhadrak explained.

"Oh, you've said it again!" screamed Telluk.

"It's a compliment!" answered Bhadrak.

Hinjews across the world, meanwhile, said they also were too busy dealing with integration to worry about Pakistanis, Palestinians, or any other opponents.

"Surprisingly, it's not the big issues, like is there one God or are there many? It's the little things," said New York City Hinjew Nathan Feldman. "Like my Hindu half acknowledges that this world is full of suffering, but my Jewish half just goes on and on about it."

SO, WHAT'S WRONG WITH A NICE HINJEW GIRL?

However, most agreed that even if other issues could be overcome, maternal obstacles to Hinjuism would always exist.

"Yesterday, my former self was killed in a car accident," said the late Gori Bhupendra of Madras. "But I had good karma, so I was reincarnated this morning into the Vaisya caste. To me, this is a step up, right?"


But then Bhupendra's former Sudras mother tracked him down.

"She says, 'Oh, Vaisya now, is it? Very nice. Of course, your former brother is a Ksatriya, but he was always an overachiever.'"

Meanwhile, Muslim nations, citing the difficult Hinjew merger, said they have discontinued talks with the world's largest religion to form Chrislam.

"It wouldn't have worked anyway," said Imam Satra Mohammed of Damascus. "The first time we drank the communion wine, we would have all had to kill ourselves."

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

If I'm not mistaken Oakland County Michigan, where I live now and grew up, is one of the most densely populated Jewish areas in the world. I think the question of what is a Jew is a good one.

All of the Jews I know, including my two best friends, are sensitive to antisemitism. I'm thinking it must be a heritage thing or something because honestly they're all terrible fucking practicioners of Judiasm. Not a single one has been back to Temple since they were mitzvah'd. Their families don't properly celebrate or observe any of the Jewish holidays. In fact, they're entirely athiest. So is it more a heritage thing and less a religious thing, overwhelmingly? I suppose it might depend on the audience.

You'd think that Jews and Blacks would get along better since both have been so persecuted as a people. However, the official status report from Detroit is that overwhelmingly neither wants anything to do with the other.

:headwall:

It seems that people just can't get along these days!

Brad

SinEmpire,

I think it's less important today for Jewish people to maintain their heritage. For the past two thousand years, Jewish people all the world over were bound by common traditions . Without these traditions, I doubt that the idea of "Jewishness" would have survived the diaspora. Since the creation of Israel however, the concept of "Jewish-ness" can exists without this strong cohesion . It exists in a place once again.



Last edited by Colin at Feb 25 2003, 04:21 PM

I think I disagree a little bit... Seeing as how there are less Jewish people now than ever before in history due to marriages outside of the religion and, of course, extermination during WWII... I think they should have some emphasis on keeping at least their traditions as I believe those are good things to pass onto kids.

Myself, being a mutt... French, German, English, American Indian, Polish, Ukraine and Scotch I unfortunately have *NO* traditions or heritage that ties back to any particular country of origin. At times, I wish I did have more beyond the Christian holidays we tend to celebrate for fun.

Brad

I probably didn't articulate it very well but what I meant to say was that those traditions were once NECESSARY for the survival of the "Jewish people" and are no longer. Whether they are important for other reasons is a different question.

You could always just ask a bunch of jews what they think.