"I will take action... it will hurt both of us, and will hurt Oprano, it will hurt pleasurelabs (your posts are made as part of Pleasurelabs), hurt your business associates, and hurt your family. I don't want to do it, but this is a serious issue that deserves your full, serious attention."

- Alex Henderson
aka "RawAlex"

-----------------------------------------------

for referrence:
http://www.oprano.com/msgboard/index.php?s...f=1&t=2105&st=0

and please bear in mind that a lot of remarks from this thread are referring to another thread and/or previous threads. i.e. anger or frustration and name calling did not begin in this thread.


so...

What should i or RawAlex do? i am leaving it up to Oprano to decide.

I believe in what i said to illustrate the rediculousness of a remark and what i felt to be a one sided political comment that was made.

Alex seems to believes that i made a remark that was libelous. i really believe that he believes that.

i am not above apologizing, however Alex started to make some pretty serious threats against me, my family, my partners and Oprano. Then proceeded to do the same with my partners regarding my remarks.

so what should be done? should i apologize? pay damages? should Alex sue me?

or is this just simple messageboard stupidity gone way too far?


here are the messages sent to me.
===============================================

1) received by me from RawAlex

I will ask you nicely... after that all bets are off.

Remove comments about me from the boards. Your comments are VERY libelous, and can be taken out of context to create problems for me. I am not a child molester, and comments to that suggestion are way out of line.

There is a line of civil debate, you crossed it.

Your comments possibly actionable. Be real careful where you go with this.

I have also asked Oprano staff to look into your comments. I don't think you add to the gumbo, I just think your making it sour and unpleasant.

I don't intend to reply beyond what I posted, nor will I ever post or answer any of your comments in the future. You have shown your true colors today, and honestly, you ain't worth my time.

I trust you will re-read your comments and take a better line of action.

Alex
========================
2) my reply to RawAlex

Are you skipping your medication or what?

you spend all your time trying to convince everyone that calling a world leader a terrorist is freedom of expression, Constitutionally protected... calling RawAlex names is libelous and an "actionable" act?

so much for all the freedom of speech that you were babbling about in your "its all a Republican, government conspiracy" rant.

it seems that by your own admission/threats there are in fact boundaries for acceptable statements and remarks and legal guidlines as well that support them. but in the world of RawAlex, they only apply when they do not server to support your own political beliefs and viewpoints... or when those boundaries could be inadvertantly protecting the rights of a politician
or country you dont like.
============

3) RawAlex reply to me

JR, I don't give a rats ass if you call me a moron, a fuck, whatever... to suggest I molest children, and to post that in a public forum is sickening...

it ain't funny dude. Seriously not funny. Potentially very expensive for me, and as a result, for you.

Your not even able to see the difference between the two, and I find that shocking. You didn't say I was stupid, you said that I rape children. That isn't name calling - it is libel.

Your response to this is VERY disappointing... I know everyone gets a little "up" on these things, and occassionally we all might go a little overboard... but you went where nobody goes, stating AS A FACT that I committed a crime, that I defiled a child. The thought of it made made physically ill.

I have asked Oprano owners to secure the access logs for the last 24 hours, and provide information as is possible. I don't like lawyers, I don't like courts, and I don't like having to take this sort of action, but you are leaving me little choice.

Don't think this is important? Picture the headline on a luke ford site "Rawalex molested child for 10 years"... end of my life in the adult business.

No debating, JR, no back and forth, no political discussion. You crossed the line, you have made clearly false statements that can hurt my standing in the businss community, can affect my livelyhood. This is 100% serious, if I was in front of you right now, you would have one look at me and understand... this is VERY serious. You need to take it as serious as it is.

I am trying to be nice here, guy. I am asking you ONLY to edit the posts, remove the words, and apologize. that's all.

Replace the Tshirt line with "Alex did bad things". Apologize stating only "Rawalex has never to my knowledge done anything illegal, and has never met me or my family" as a single and new topic.

End of problem if you do it.

Otherwise, I will take action... it will hurt both of us, and will hurt Oprano, it will hurt pleasurelabs (your posts are made as part of Pleasurelabs), hurt your business associates, and hurt your family. I don't want to do it, but this is a serious issue that deserves your full, serious attention.

thanks

Alex Henderson
=======================

4) another message from RawAlex after the above

Nice edit... now I have gone from child molester to murderer.

Nice.

You don't get it, do you?

I'm being nice - you have until the end of the day... fix it right.

Alex
=====================

5) my final reply

Alex, the post was changed and the offending remark removed. that is the issue right? i was not expect that you, the last hope for endless liberal compassion and great defender of freedom, the Constitution and everything good, would be making more demands at my expense.

a brief english lesson for you

1) molest does not mean "rape" as you put it.
2) daughter does not mean "under age" as you put it.
3) i did not state that you did anything.
4) it could not have possibly been taken seriously and was clearly parody and sarcasm to make a point. a point that anyone will agree with and one with which XXXXX was careful to acknowledge.
5) luke ford can print anything he wants irrespective of what i post, he does it all the time and it would be an issue between you and luke ford.

your interpretation of English is clearly worse than your interpretation of the law, the US Constitution and the First Amendment.

So, you concluded your message by clearly threatening that you would hurt me, my family, my business associates and Oprano if you were not satisfied. thats not real nice now is it?

"I will take action... it will hurt both of us, and will hurt Oprano, it will hurt pleasurelabs (your posts are made as part of Pleasurelabs), hurt your business associates, and hurt your family. I don't want to do it, but this is a serious issue that deserves your full, serious attention."

now you are threatening and harrassing me and my family. you are threatening my partners who have no connection to anything i say. you are threatening Oprano presumably for their refusal to delete, edit or modify posts as you try to intimidate and harrass them as well.

at this point Alex, all i can say is that you have clearly lost touch with reality and i encourage you to do anything you feel you need to do. lawsuits are as easy. they prove nothing. you have lost nothing as a result of anything i posted. you have nothing to defend. the post has been modified and it was modified before you sent your last two messages to me.

i would encourage you at this point to stop threatening me, my family, my partners, my company and Oprano.

JR, you are also uncouth... posting private emails without permission.

Tacky.

Alex

Sorry, I just want to add to this little BS line of thought before I give it up for a while:

JR, your actions in the last 24 hours, especially on point of stating in clear terms that I am a criminal, and then posting private email in a public place only shows that you are not capable of judging right from wrong.

Even when the errors of your ways are clearly pointed out, you continune to mock, your corrective edit in the thread did nothing more than move me from sexual preditor to murderer. Not exactly a strong retraction.

I blew the whistle when this went over the line, and asked nice. You just kept up the BS, and added insult to injury by not respecting privacy and by not retracting your poor choice of words.

You have shown yourself to be a little, little man.

You can take my comments any way you like. I use "hurt" in the legal sense, because I am not agressive, I don't fight with people, I don't carry a gun, and I am not the murder you seem to think I am.

You have shown your true colors, and it is disgusting.

Alex

Alex,

Do you REALLY think that anyone thinks you're a murderer because of JR's hypothetical post that is obviously meant to make a philosophical point, one that is obviously not intended to slander you but rather was meant to choose something that no one would believe including yourself. Just as if I said "I'm gonna wear my T-shirt that shows PornoDoggy wearing a Rush Limbaugh cap." Now, PD will not sue me over that though he may feel it is warranted ;-) No one here besides you would believe PD is a Republican based on that sentence.



Last edited by Colin at Feb 20 2003, 04:00 PM

Colin, his original post did not include the words "with a false statement " - it just said make up a t-shirt that said "RawAlex is a ********"

The statement as it is now is BETTER...

Alex

Alex,

If I wear a T-shirt to Vegas that says "JR is a murderer", will you believe it is true? Do you think anyone will? Are you serious?

Colin, I don't know JR, but I would believe that if you say it, it MIGHT be true.

That MIGHT is enough to change my opinion about someone... and that could be enough to change who I would do business with...

if you can walk around with that Tshirt without getting sued, it must be true... no? We aren't talking about "JR is a slob" or "JR like teletubbies"... you are stating he is a criminal and he ain't arguing about it. I would have to assume that there is some fact to the message, no?

Alex

I think you might have trouble differentiating between the real world and Alex's La La Land then.

That would be about as effective in convincing someone JR is a murderer as a bumper sticker that says "Jesus Saves" has in convinging someone to believe in God.

I think this makes you both look like you belong on GFY complaining about hun galleries.

JMHO :lol:

Colin, no lala land... even 1% doubt is enough to change people's view of things.

1% is 1% too much, you know?

Alex

Alex ... this is, IMHO, a massive over-reaction. It would have been in extremely poor taste on GFY (which takes some doing), but there is no way in hell that anyone would have taken it seriously. DROP IT. MOVE ON.

JR, Alex overreacted to a really stupid, immature, tasteless and classless remark you made. I'm trying hard to figure out what you are gaining by keeping it going with posting email communications, etc. I'm guessing somehow you think you are making Alex look bad ... and this thread does indeed make somebody look bad, but IMHO it ain't Alex. DROP IT. MOVE ON.

Ya'll don't knock this shit off I'm grabbing both you by the ears, dragging you down to the office, and you can sit there until your parents show up.

Oh, wait. Colln's already here for JR ...

Damn...

Alex, it doesn't matter whether it says he is a criminal or a slob... That is simply a matter of extremes......

If you state a fact about someone that is not true, then it is illegal.....

Just like speeding, it doesn't matter whether you are running at 5 miles over or 50 miles over, you can still get pulled over... Fine/punishment might be different, but they are both illegal.....

You can not in any means defend your indignation over the way the school district handled the T-shirt matter while at the same time accusing folk of libel for treating you the same way...

Either it is right, or it is wrong... That you CHOOSE a level at which you decide to get insulted is YOUR choice.....

BTW, from what I understand from my lawyer buddy (and he has looked at this thread and laughed his ass off about it), Nothing that has been said here or in the free speech thread could be taken as libelous because it has been addressed at internet handles, not people.... I know that you and I and the rest of the folk around here realize that there are actual people behind the handles, the law would not recognize that fact and either does the internet as a whole. Internet handles are not trademarkable or protected in any way... I can go over to any board that you have not registered as "rawalex" and I can register as a user under that name.. I can also come in here and register various versions of rawalex and post under them... It is not a protected handle, it is not a real person.. It is a nickname that you have picked for yourself...

Unless the comments are tied to yur actual real name, they are not going to end up being actionable.....

just imho (and my lawyer buddy's)

pity you dont afford others that same courtesy when you refer to libelous remarks about them as "protected speech"

which Constitution are you reading?

the raw_alex and rawaIex accounts have been banned.

JR, becuase the 1% goes the other way too... I can site examples (Yemen) that show that the commander in chief has authorized asasinations... some people might call that terrorism.

You don't have 1% proof that I am a ****** or a ******.

That is the 1% that makes all the difference.

Alex



fixed a typo... I make alot of those thigns.



Last edited by RawAlex at Feb 20 2003, 05:13 PM

Geez Mike, I was just proving a point...

damn

Sarreth, did you mention to your lawyer buddy that (1) you must signup to use this board, that (2) it is associated as a result to an email address, yada yada?

The standard for the internet isn't different from real life. I am the only RawAlex in the adult business, I own RawAlex.com, and if you ask who RawAlex is to most webmasters on this board, they would be able to pick me out of a lineup.

That's enough - people know who the comments are about.

Alex

HAHA Sorry Sarattah, I really did not even read the posts - I have been so slammed today moving some servers around. I just saw the new names pop up and did not want any problems.

I now see the point you were making. And hey, I agree with everything you say too! :D :rolleyes:

Oh man............somebody stop this thing!! :rolleyes:

Let's look at this from a bit of a different angle.

'Bush is an International Terrorist' is a subjective statement. The reality of it depends on who you ask. Further, the fear the school faculty showed, and the reasons given for not allowing the shirt in school [fear of an uprise] supports this.

'Raw Alex is an [insert criminal offense here]' is not subjective. It is a clear lie, as Alex has never been accused, nor convicted of such a crime.

JR's attempt to create a parallel example falls short in this area IMO.

Now, with that said, I'll be there to pick up Alex at 4pm. :awinky:

[edited: I need typing lessons...]



Last edited by gigi at Feb 20 2003, 05:13 PM

Kewl... GiGi's picking me up :P :D :agrin: :yowsa:

Alex

its still semantics. is someone guilty BEFORE being proven innocent? is Bush a proven terrorist?

where is 1% of anything relevent to anything?

you were defending the First Amendment and free speech.

of course you can say that it depends on who you ask. but were not really talking about the political opinions of Reindeer farmers in Northern Siberia.

I was making a rhetorical point about RawAlex and where he says one attack is ok (with no arguement about substantiating it or need to establish guilt and certainly no one is denying that point in the debate)... where an identical attack against RawAlex is not ok and is suddenly not a Constitutional issue about free speech and the First Amendment.

is your ignore button broken or what? your broken promises to ignore me are inflating faster than the National Debt.
:zoinks:

Only a moron of an attorney would suggest that you can't be harmed because you were addressed as a board handle and not as a real person... Jesus, what Bar do these guys pass? Cheers?

Doesn't matter, Alex is still overreacting. Alex is a murderer could mean Alex steps on living snails. I've heard Vegetarians call us carnivores "murderers"....I've seen PETA people throw red paint and scream "murderer" at women wearing furs. Almost everything is subjective to somebody else...and lines have to be drawn, I agree...whether by a Penguin looking board poster or a school board. Neither can be seen as one is right and the other is wrong. Pick one...

I fail to see how "Bush is an International Terrorist" is subjectively different. Depends who you ask? What kind of arguement is that? Is he or isn't he? Even if you want to take Alex's example in Yemen, I'm pretty sure BUSH did not explode any bombs over there personally. Maybe there should be a "Colonel Jones is an International Terrorist" shirt?

Logic breaks down around here quite often...

The ignore button is for the guy who starts his posts with "Alex your a ****"... that guy isn't discussing, he is just flying off the handle. Nothing useful comes from that discussion.

GiGi put it best.

I can show you enough to make the first statement POSSIBLY CORRECT (I gave the example of the Yemeni incident, which is more than enough to cause some people to have this opinion). You cannot show anything to make the second one correct. No bodies, no complaints from your daughter... nothing.

What you see as a small difference is so huge in reality. Gigi said it best, I can only quote her and smile, because all is not lost, someone else sees the point.

Alex

Alex we can debate this ad nausium. We could say since you are a Canadian you pay Canadien taxs, ( Porbbaly some US taxs as well) which goes to funding a military that has murdered people in the war on terrorism. It's like those commercials that link people smoking pot to supporting bin laden.....

It's cool....

rotflmfao... you were quick with that ban button...lol

From Alex:
***********************************************
Sarreth, did you mention to your lawyer buddy that (1) you must signup to use this board, that (2) it is associated as a result to an email address, yada yada?

The standard for the internet isn't different from real life. I am the only RawAlex in the adult business, I own RawAlex.com, and if you ask who RawAlex is to most webmasters on this board, they would be able to pick me out of a lineup.

That's enough - people know who the comments are about.
***********************************************

He is very familiar with the board and everything adult... He is originally a Free Speech lawyer and in the past 2 years I have gotten him very involved in the internet side of things.

Just because people know who the comments about is NOT enough, otherwise there would be thousands of folks being sued for the various Inuendos that they expouse everyday.

My going out and saying RAWALEX IS THIS or RAWALEX did THAT is far and away different from my using your real name...

Now, if I tied you to rawalex.com as in RAWALEX from RAWALEX.com did this, at that point you might have a complaint....

But back to the original..... The student wearing the T Shirt was clearly labeling George Bush II as an international terrorist. Is this not a libelous actionable statement , or is it expression of his PERSONAL opinion. If the shirt said "I THINK" in front of it all, it would be clear.

Personally, I am against all forms of censorship. I fought hard in school to help get rid of dress codes.... The several generations since then have let them back in... It would be my personal preference that everyone speak their mind as often and as much as possible. But, as a parent that has dealt with school districts for the past 16 years or so, I can also see the school districts side. They are trying to maintain order and provide a safe secure environment for their students and eventhough, in my mind, dress codes (other than health issues such as open toed shoes, break your toe, ya know) should be thrown out, I am in the minority at this time and place.

He never said noone would be hurt.... he stated to me, it would die in court, that it was not a winner because the courts do not yet understand the internet and the way it works yet... If Alex owned exclusive rights to the name RawAlex in all boards and chatrooms, then it would be a winner... Since that level of regulatory control does not exist on the net, it is a loser...

Hell, you can go in to just about any chat room and post messages as anyone you want... Will that hurt the person you are pretending to be... possibly, can you do anything about it, nada fucking thing....

Jesus Jumped Up On A Sidecar Fucking Christ
This :wacko: :wankit: fest is making me want to :stout: 'till I'm :hic: and :barfon:
Can you say :headwall:
Now go :kapow: :shooter: like some :butt: :matey: and if you run across a :bulb2: please share it
Because I'm :inlove: with the :devil:

Sarettah: You have the lawyer handy, ask him(or her):

Only by reading the news and WH press releases, I can show that Bush is the commander in chief of the armed forces, and that he had to approve of the use of the unmanned drone which bombed and killed 4 men in a car in Yemen. US is not at war with Yemen. Thus, it is an assasination. Again, if the Leader of Yemen did the same thing to 4 men in a car in America, you would call it terrorism.

The claim that JR made about me is false. Nothing to support it. I have not met JR's family, I don't know where they live, don't know anything about them. Any suggestion that I did anything untoward to any member of his family is just false. No debate.

Calling me a murderer is a lesser but still incorrect statement.

One is an opinion, supported by facts, and not libel... the other has no basis in fact. No matter what, you cannot lie about someone in public and not be held accountable.

:-)

Alex

(we're in need of some icon intervention with Vick.....)

Alex, Have you ever squashed a cockroach ? Because if you have, then in my book you are a murderer.

Have you ever looked at porn ? Then you are an immoral piece of scum pornographer.

Have you ever broken a speed limit ? You are a criminal my friend....

Did Bush personally approve the bombing of the car in Yemen, did he even know about it before hand ?

It is a question of degrees and definitions.

just an aside, the difference between a terrorist or a freedom fighter depends on which side you are watching from.

To Israel, Begin was a freedom fighter and Arafat is a terrorist, to the Palestinians, it is reversed....

To America, when a bomb full of terrorists gets blown up, we call it a "bow for freedom", an action that deserves applause. In the middle east, the same thing is looked upon as a "Terrorist Act against the Muslim Nation".

It is a question of viewpoint.

When you looked at the various statements JR made, you saw only the statements. When I saw them, I clearly saw the "what if I did this" at the beginning of them and identified them as hypothetical.

He never said what you are saying he said... I saw them before they were edited...

Each one said stuff like so, If I wore a Tshirt down the street saying....

You are clearly taking the statements waaaayyy out of context to prove your point.

what a joke!!!

jesus alex, talk about a case of picking up your bat and ball and throwing a tanty!!

nobody on this board could possibly have assumed you were anything criminal from the comments jr made, but you are giving reason for OTHER opinions to form and they aint real positive either!!

jr's comment was in bad taste, but it certainly wasn't presented as fact ("if i were to make a tshirt that said ****") this comment was to prove that free speech shouldn't be unconditional. alex, this was YOUR point in the first place!!!

you can't willingly partake in a controversial discussion only to back down when your point is proven wrong, and turn to a 'i'm getting my lawyer involved' defence. that's exactly what this looks like and whether you feel you are defending yourself justly or not, your making yourself look really really stupid along the way.

"I'm pretty sure BUSH did not explode any bombs over there personally"

I`m sure Osama didn`t personally set off any bombs!

Hey! who did Raw Alex Murder? :P



Last edited by Lord Aga at Feb 20 2003, 06:16 PM

Aga! Piss in any cabs lately? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA...

Never laughed so hard in my life....

Alex appears to have murdered several hours of combined work hours... B)

Jimbob!

Was a fucking funny night.. thats what happens when you challange me to a drinking competition! lol

I agree it was an overreaction on Alex's part. A huge overreaction. But let me add that it is very easy to overreact like that on a message board. I have done big overreactions in the past, blown things way out of proportion and then in a day or so after calming down, I realized it and felt pretty stupid about it.

I like Hooper's statement above. Well put! :okthumb:

this thread should be run through the shizzolator
http://asksnoop.com/

Sword you are right. I like Alex, I think he is one of the genuine good guys in this biz. However, he overreacted...

OF course, I know, because I am the KING of overreacting... I think anyone who posts regularly on message boards have been there, done that...

I think we all need a :stout: and put on a big :D

Then do a little :bdance: :bjump: then another :stout: until we are :hic: then it will be time for :zzz:



That was for you Vick!!

How right you are...lol....I think there was a huge over-reaction on both parts....

Mike, is that an invite to your new place for :bdance: :bjump: and :hic: and :zzz: ?? B)

:groucho:

This :wacko: :wankit: thread is :bdance: :bwave: :bjump: :cdance: out of control to the point where Peaches (not to be confused with :bdance: , :cdance: or other fruits or veggies ) had to suggest I need intervention :P

:bulb1: Get the shirt here first
"VICK ABUSES ICONS"


MikeAI - you know I have :inlove: :inlove: :inlove: for you
Hopefully we will get together soon and :stout: a few with dinner and :P while we tell stories (some of them may even be true) and maybe even hatch :bulb2:

See ya in the Funny Papers (that's newpapers, not rolling)
:blink:

Life is scary, I'm agreeing with Hooper. :D

Alex and JR are reminding me of me in the bad old days...not a good thing.

Hey, Daddy Green Eyes...whassup? :P (DJ to the uninitiated)

Vick's icon abuse makes him a what?? Hmmm. :lol:

who shot who in the what now ??

Damn ... have you been spying on me? Sounds like my weekend routine! ;-)))

:rokk: :rokk:

speaking of which, tomorrow is FRIDAY!

:gbounce: :gbounce: :gbounce: :gbounce: :gbounce: :gbounce: :gbounce: :gbounce: :gbounce: :gbounce:



Last edited by MikeW at Feb 20 2003, 09:31 PM

I like Alex too. We'll still talk next time we see each other.

Alex, we got May 15 down for the next scheduled piss match. Good for you?

Thursdays are good, yes. :-)

Alex

Boy is this thread a time killer! I sure hope everyone got a lot off their chests....

I was thinking 'what would I do if someone posted on the board that they were going to wear a T shirt to Cybernet saying that "Sharpie is a Whore" ???

After some thought about whether people might or might not take that seriously as ridicule on my personna - I think I would carefully send an email asking the person to tone it down a little and edit it to at least "Sharpie is a bitch" since we all know that to be true.... that would pass muster. I would expect my wishes to be followed................it is little to ask, and simple solution.

(.......and this comes from the person who got the award for 'the asshole who got laid least in 2002)

Anyone that wants to wear a T-shirt that says anything about me has my permission.

Some suggestions:

"Colin's secret quest for chemical weapons. Caught with Dell dude. He DEFINITELY inhaled"
"Colin abducted by aliens? Alien probe underway"
"Colin's secret voting record. Is he what he seems?"
"Colin's confessions. His favorite book is Lolita .. and more!"
"Colin's secret background. French Canadian"
"Colin is having a bad hair day. The stunning proof"

Please feel free to use any likeness of me you wish. I can provide some if you wish.

I'm having one silkscreened right now that says:

"Colin's only source of news and reading material is People Magazine!" :P

Gosh, this all just got way out of control. Best to drop it, it's not a winning situation for either of you.

.. and it's TRUE!

How else would I know so much about Evan and Zora?