Remember last month when Saddam apologized to Kuwait for invading it in 1990? Now Tariq Aziz says Iraq will not rule out a strike on Kuwait in the event of a U.S.-led military attack. Sincere apology.

Saddam's words are about as meaningful as Bill Clinton's. Say anything that people want to hear as long as it furthers your own agenda.

Oh Puhleeeze Colin.... This is politics, what's sincerety got to do with anything ?? :groucho:

Ditto JFK, just politics and 'marketing' diplomacy propaganda crap. Usual stuff, like Saddam being a devout muslim all of a sudden. Please!



Last edited by Ironhorse at Jan 29 2003, 01:32 PM

Ok... you are reading into this incorrectly.

IF the US invades.. where do you think they will be coming from?
KUWAIT!! YES!

Now.. let's pose an hypothetical.

Saddam becomes allies with Canada, mounts an attack over the border. Does the USA stay out of canada? NO THEY ATTACK FUCK OUT OF IT COS ITS NOW TEAMING WITH THE ENEMY and a STRATEGIC POSITION.

Shit. Think people, think.

Wow, I would have never thought of that. Thats just crazy enough,
it might just work.


If the USA invades, they will be coming from Everywhere, not
just Kuwait.
Canada is pretty eccentric, but not even they would
be that stupid.



:headwall:

before its al set and done, Jordan and Turkey WILL let us use their bases.. plus i'm sure Saudi's will fallow with the wind.

this just in
"Eight European governments break ranks with France and Germany and present united front behind US against Saddam Hussein: UK, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Hungary, Poland, Czechoslovakia, Denmark"


and btw since Germany cant fight wars for any reason, who gave them the right to stick their biz into someone else's war.

Slav - the "European 8". I just saw that too. I think it likely that World and American opinion will sway towards a pro-war stance in the coming month.
Everyone watch the polls. :-)

i agree

Since World War 2 Germany have been against most wars... they saw their country almost destoryed from the effects of war, thats why there is a big anti war feeling in Germany... also German politics is mostly internal, so when they talk about not supporting a war with iraq, then they are thinking more about getting votes in Germany, then about Iraq.

France has some interest in Iraq oil, and like in Germany they are thinking more about getting votes, then Iraq.

Also one of the other things is that there are alot of muslims in whole of Europe. These people are usual refugees from wars around the world, however in the last 10 years alot of the people comming to Europe have not been refugees from war, but from bad economy. This has made the cost from taking care of refugees sky rocket, which again have ment social unrest in many big cities.

Now - there are alot of people in Europe which do not understand why Iraq should be attacked, however there also alot of people supporting a war in Iraq.

The USA do have alot more friends in Europe, then Iraq have, so I wouldn´t worry about Europe´s vote... (just watch the 8 countries giving their support today - more will join them official after UN meeting next week). Germany and France are 2 big countries in Europe, but they do not speak for every European country.

Yes probably most forces will come from Turkey to coordinate with the Kurdish resistance ala Afghanistan. I wonde what kind of deal they have with Turkey since the Kurds want their own -STAN and the Turks very much oppose this idea.

--------------------

Wow this is the country that dominated Europe militarily for most of the last 2000 years, a kinder gentler Germany, I wonder how long this will last?

I think were going to see a few new weapons we didn't use in
Afgan. The biggest part of the war with Iraq will be over in
24 hrs. Two weeks clean up and a month or two to seek and
and destroy cave dwellers and field rats and the rest will be
just another page of history dedicated to those who opened
their mouth one time too many. :stout:

I´m afraid that Iraq will not be that easy to invade, if CIA/Pentagon is not successful in getting some of the iraq forces to turn on Saddam himself, then it could be a very long and bloody war.

Saddam has build a whole social class of soliders/military in Iraq, which would not have a job, house, car etc. if Saddam was not in power.
Also the propoganda from muslim media, since the last gulf war have made alot of muslims very angry at western and US trops.... this could mean that even when/if Iraq is invaded, then trops will encounter things like the Russians have seen in their wars in muslim areas.

Iraq have also learned from the last gulf war, and are putting weapons very close, if not exactly, in civilian areas... a bomb hitting a school or hospital could swift world opinion very fast.
And again, what if Saddam feels his life is in danger - will he use any of the missing mass destruction weapons? And how will the US react, if the weapons is tartget at US trops based just outside Bagdag potential killing thousands of trops?

This war will be nothing like the war against Taliban... Here there will be real military targets, and real threads of mass destruction.

I thought that the US´s CIA/Pentagon would be able to start a revolt in Iraq, and someone would take Saddam´s place, however Saddam is like Stalin... getting rid of his generals and officers every few years, so no one would be able to take his place.

I personal hope for no war, and that somehow in the next few weeks someone in Iraq will take the power from Saddam, and start working with the UN. But I guess, if that doesn´t happen, then a few weeks from now we all will be watching CNN :zoinks:

Germany as we now it from WWI and WWII is a new country in Europe... after Napoleon's defeat in 1815, then the first union of german monarchical states were formed... The Roman empire probably did more to face of Europe, then any other power in the last 2000 years.

Its hard to belive that Germany was in two world wars if you visit the country today (except from the fact that you are reminded of it in many places thru out Germany), and thats because that these wars really changed the people. As an ex. Germany´s first trops in another country, since WW2 was in Afghanistan last year, and thinking of their size, then thats very impressive.

Rolo--
Interesting comments.

Part of the problem with combat in Iraq will be the U.S. engagement in "total war."

Civilian casualties will be heavy, and this will definitely attract a great deal of international attention. In addition if what you say is true about Sadam's strategic placement of military installations, the U.S. war strategy will be greatly affected. During Vietnam and after has been a commitment to minimize U.S. casualities even at the expense of non-combatants. In this case Sadam will maximize these civilian casualities to the muslim and European media.

Unfortunately it seems Bush and company want to use the fist in Iraq, so they do not have to deal with N. Korea.

:bjump:
(I love the bananas here)

Germany as we now it from WWI and WWII is a new country in Europe... after Napoleon's defeat in 1815, then the first union of german monarchical states were formed... The Roman empire probably did more to face of Europe, then any other power in the last 2000 years.
[/b][/quote]
I guess I was referring to the germanic region including the Holy Roman Empire which was itself dominated by german peoples.

But I see what you're saying about the 2 world wars changing things it puts things in perspective for sure, but I wonder how long that lasts. Within a few years the last survivors of WW2 will have died off and who will then REALLY remember the cruelty of war? Ceila

"before its al set and done, Jordan and Turkey WILL let us use their bases.. plus i'm sure Saudi's will fallow with the wind.."..

Slavdogg !!arrogance squared ..but youre right about Germany..it has objected to most wars since WW2 becuase it has absolutely NO say in the matter ..let alone an army lol..Italy can agree to what it like as all its tanks have 6 gears ..1 forward ..5 reverse..the rest dont matter except when it comes to having the Olympics

Yellow France on the other hand sold Exocets to Argentina DURING the Falklands war..so with that ,and their total capitulation without any fight in WW2 only emphasizes their irrelevance..

In reality Iraqis , soldiers included,and the majority of other Muslims,hate only one thing more than Saddam...the USA..big surprise after the massacre by dickhead Bush senior..

..most of Europe, and Australia,by a huge majority if the polls are to beleived ,do NOT want a war without UN sanction..

..most of Europe, and Australia,by a huge majority if the polls are to beleived ..think Dubya is an incompetent warmongering illitrerate (sic) fuckwit doing his dadda a favour..

Hope all you armchair gung hoes know what youre getting in to..no whingeing about the body bags now!

sum result ...ALL muslims will hate the so called coalition even more rabidly.. and we'll all be in for another 30 years of horrendous terrorism..worldwide..which most of you in the USA, with the exception of 9/11, know absolutely nothing about...let alone war.

>> Yellow France on the other hand sold Exocets to Argentina DURING the Falklands war

What is Exocets ? is that a French missiles ?

France also built the Iraq's nuclear rector 20 years ago.


Joke heard on msnbc today,
"Going to war with france, is like going deer hunting with an accordion
you can always leave noise behind"

I disagree - I think the US know more about war and terrorism, then most western nations. And I think the US will do everything to prevent it from happing again on US soil.

Terrorism is not a new thing - but single people being able to travle halfway around the world to do mass terror - that´s something new.

people always talk about France and their awkward stances on both personal hygiene and the impending war on Iraq and forget that they were initially against action and one of the bigger stumbling blocks, the first time when Saddam invaded Kuwait.

While some people are busying themselves by claiming that its not necessary to depose Saddam Hussein and that diplomacy and peace should be given a chance, i am more worried about his unnacounted rockets, chemical war heads, V-X gas, Anthrax etc etc. i am more concerned by the fact that after 12 years, 17 UN Security Resolutions and continued games, people think there is a "peaceful" way to deal with him. the really scary thing about Saddam Hussein is that the UN Security Council voted unanimously to give him one last chance and it was clear that if he should not cooperate, he would be destroyed and he continues to not cooperate.

its incredibly easy for French to be against against ruthless, murderous dictatorships with clear and stated goals and intentions of causing as much destruction as possible against western countries while supporting terrorists (uh... hello.. the worls most wanted terrorist before Osama Bin Laden, Abu Nidal lived in Bagdad), when tens of millions of people willingly fought and died to give them that right through the course of the last century.

Nice bang up job they did in the Ivory Coast recently to stop the fighting... force an agreement on the legitimate government to share power with a group of rebels trying to destroy them. Now the entire population of The Ivory Coast is in the street threatening France and french people and most asking for US intervention. Cool footage of thousands locals spitting on them and threatening to kill them as French citizens were being evacuated. seems that French are not ones to brag about diplomacy and giving "peace a chance".

What great masterpiece of diplomacy has France been responsible for in the last 100 years?

Britain is another great example of peace and understanding. there is a reason London is nicknamed "Londonistan". They invited every terrorist from the middle east and north africa to live in England, gave them asylum, housing and benefits. in recent times, they let people openly declare war on them in their own city under the protection of free speech and religion. they let a local mosque turn into a recruitment and training center for terrorists .... they let a known radical muslim cleriq declare war on the very people that gave him a place to live, that gave him housing, medical care..

at least they have the balls to take action and start taking these people down. at least they have the foresight to see that addressing the problem sooner rather than later can spare possible millions of deaths.

Hitler was not doing different than what Saddam is doing right now. He began by breaking the Treaty of Versailles and building up his military again. He was dismissed as a idiot who would not last long. But when it was too late... it was REALLY too late. Saddam should not be developing weapons, but he is. He should be accounting for and destroying his weapons (i.e. 300 plus rockets illegally imported, stores of V-X gas, Anthrax, Chemical Warheads, other chemical and biological agents, info on nuclear program) but he is not. He has made it clear that Kuwait is Iraq. He has made it clear that he intends to take over the entire Middle East, destroy Isreal and annex Saudi Arabia. He has made it clear that he is a murderer and even used gas to kill thousands of men, women and children who never knew what hit them.

fuck Saddam Hussein. the sooner he is shot in the face, the better the world will be.



Last edited by JR at Feb 2 2003, 07:43 AM

it was not exactly an appology. it went something like this:

"Dear People of Kuwait,

we are sorry that you and Great Britain had the foresight to draw some borders after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire... you know, back when we were just a bunch of stone-age, nomadic shits, wandering the desert, living in tents with no concept of Statehood or private land or why it would ever be to our benefit to have deep sea port access since we never knew what that black shit was bubbling from the ground everywhere until the 50's.

we are sorry that you, by having your shit together more than us, forced us to invade you.

Best Regards
S H

P.S.
you would still be better off as part of Iraq... we'll talk later
"