Interesting article this week in MacLeans magazine...

http://www.macleans.ca/topstories/politics...209_74911_74911

Gee that is a shock!!

I am curious as to what most Americans think about the Candian Prime Minister? Or Canadians in general?

I bet a majority has no earthly idea who he is.

Is it better to be hated or completely trivial?

I strongly suggest if the Canadiens don't like Bush that they not vote for him..... :awinky:

You didn't read the article, Mike.

Shocker.



Last edited by Evil Chris at Feb 10 2004, 12:50 PM

I thought Canada was a commune! Damn, learn something new everyday!

He probably doesn't read Canadian ... :rolleyes:

I read the first 2 paragraphs, it was very predictible....

Sorry....

Here's a news flash: Canada is a "friendly country", and we are right next door, like next door neighbors. In theory, we should all get along and have nice opinions of each other.

If Canada don't like you, imagine how well you play in holeinthegroundistan.... or at the UN.

Alex

See that is the funny thing Alex. I do not care what ANY other country, or citizen of another country thinks about the US.

We must do what is best for OUR Nation, OUR National Security, and OUR future.

As one of the First American's said: Nations have no permanent friends, or allies, only interests.

But....what does America get from Canada? Right now, we're basically protecting you since you have no real military. Seems like Canada would want to be our good neighbors rather than the other way around. :awinky:

Oil

NAFTA. :okthumb:

But....what does America get from Canada? Right now, we're basically protecting you since you have no real military. Seems like Canada would want to be our good neighbors rather than the other way around. :awinky:[/b][/quote]
Peaches!! Stop it!! You are being an "ugly American"!! How dare you make posts questioning Canadians? :lol: :yowsa:

They make road signs after Canada - One Way!

Seriously, I do not blame Canada for their foreign policy. Every Nation must do what is in their best interest. If that means their policy does not match up with the US, that is their perogrative. Now only if Canadains would do the same for us.

But....what does America get from Canada? Right now, we're basically protecting you since you have no real military. Seems like Canada would want to be our good neighbors rather than the other way around. :awinky:[/b][/quote]


its hard for me to comprehend how people who work in a virtual environment like most of us put so much importance on their physical location...

interesting stuff I have to admit.

MikeAI, if you moved to Canada (God forbids), would you be the same person?
Then how would you feel when people like you shit on your head for being across an imaginary line?

All in all, I think most people on this board are good people, quite smart too. But I think a flaw shared by many is the utter lack of ability to put things into perspective.

Someone who wasnt too dumb said one day: " Its all relative"

See that is the funny thing Alex. I do not care what ANY other country, or citizen of another country thinks about the US.

We must do what is best for OUR Nation, OUR National Security, and OUR future.

As one of the First American's said: Nations have no permanent friends, or allies, only interests.[/b][/quote]
How provincial. You don't get around much, I guess Mike. There are way more of them than their are of you. You are only one player in the game and a player who is losing ground at the moment. Three things I know for sure, China is yanking your chain big time and you guys are being blindsided because of this kind of provincial thinking. You are not the world's only super power. And three, if Canada and the US had a falling out, your economy, as well as ours would suffer a freeking major, major recession. We would probably recover more quickly because it functions better and we aren't out on the margin at the moment. Just remember who your biggest trading partner is and we will do the same. The military argument is a non starter.

See that is the funny thing Alex. I do not care what ANY other country, or citizen of another country thinks about the US.

We must do what is best for OUR Nation, OUR National Security, and OUR future.

As one of the First American's said: Nations have no permanent friends, or allies, only interests.[/b][/quote]
A very appropriate and rational statement for the turn of the century.

Unfortunately, it's appropriate and rational for the turn of the LAST century, and hardly relevant to the fight we are in today.

We are the biggest and the baddest. That means that no state can successfully challenge us at this point in time.

Problem with your attitude is that we are now up against an enemy that is essentially stateless. The power that we have to smash things is considerable. Unfortuntely, in THIS fight applying that power may be comprable to using a sledgehammer on a quantity of mercury. Oh, it'll break up all right ... but give it ten minutes after you quit applying that sledgehammer, and whattya think's gonna happen?

"THIS fight applying that power may be comprable to using a sledgehammer on a quantity of mercury. Oh, it'll break up all right ... but give it ten minutes after you quit applying that sledgehammer, and whattya think's gonna happen? "

I'll give you another analogy. America is stumbling through the world trying to kill wasps with a baseball bat. Doomed to failure. W is a moron. Plain and simple and unfortunately he is a moron with a baseball bat that will crush a few heads trying to kill wasps.

A very appropriate and rational statement for the turn of the century.

Unfortunately, it's appropriate and rational for the turn of the LAST century, and hardly relevant to the fight we are in today.

We are the biggest and the baddest. That means that no state can successfully challenge us at this point in time.

Problem with your attitude is that we are now up against an enemy that is essentially stateless. The power that we have to smash things is considerable. Unfortuntely, in THIS fight applying that power may be comprable to using a sledgehammer on a quantity of mercury. Oh, it'll break up all right ... but give it ten minutes after you quit applying that sledgehammer, and whattya think's gonna happen?[/b][/quote]


PD my post was just referencing OTHER nations, since we talking about Canada.

The actions of non-state actors have always played a part in world history. Al Quada is not the first. They are just the most recent threat.

The US needs to change to face this challenge, this includes foreign policy and militarily. I think it already has started. Before 9/11 we had a rocky relationship with Pakistan ( I know its far from perfect, and they should be helping us out more, but we are at least engaged). Before 9/11 we spent billions on heavy military platforms like Tanks, now we need to invest in special ops, ad unconvential warriors.

PD- I agree a sledgehammer is not needed in many cases. There are many ways to influence foreign affairs, but the REAL threat of the sledgehammer gets attention.

How provincial. You don't get around much, I guess Mike. There are way more of them than their are of you. You are only one player in the game and a player who is losing ground at the moment. Three things I know for sure, China is yanking your chain big time and you guys are being blindsided because of this kind of provincial thinking. You are not the world's only super power. And three, if Canada and the US had a falling out, your economy, as well as ours would suffer a freeking major, major recession. We would probably recover more quickly because it functions better and we aren't out on the margin at the moment. Just remember who your biggest trading partner is and we will do the same. The military argument is a non starter.[/b][/quote]


You have to be the most ignorant person on Oprano.

Thanks for contributing!

Who else do you include as world superpowers? The Soviet Union disintegrated and as much as China will one day probably be a superpower I wouldn't consider them as such yet.

Consider the holy trinity of power; military, economic, and political.

China isn't even the largest economy in their region.

They play a small role on the international political stage - at least in comparison to the US. They are not even the dominant influential power in their region because of the Japanese/US relationship.

Can a nation that doesn't even have an aircraft carrier in the water yet be considered a military super power?

China faces incredible challenges just to continue their predicted rise to #2 or #3 economy in the world a generation from now. They not only have to deal with the likely internal political turmoil associated with much of their population desiring democracy but also potential threats from their immediate nearby neighbors (Japan, India, Russia, and Taiwan all of which have been the source of historical difficulties) and also what many communist nations have found to be unsustainable economic growth rates as the initial rise from forced urbanization and industrialization subsides (i.e. Russia). Oh yeah, and a massive population in a world of increasing communications serves up the possible threat of unrule.

There is only one superpower right now.

You have to be the most ignorant person on Oprano.

Thanks for contributing![/b][/quote]
I guess you are taking the fifth on this one. Good calldude.

Who else do you include as world superpowers? The Soviet Union disintegrated and as much as China will one day probably be a superpower I wouldn't consider them as such yet.

Consider the holy trinity of power; military, economic, and political.

China isn't even the largest economy in their region.

They play a small role on the international political stage - at least in comparison to the US. They are not even the dominant influential power in their region because of the Japanese/US relationship.

Can a nation that doesn't even have an aircraft carrier in the water yet be considered a military super power?

China faces incredible challenges just to continue their predicted rise to #2 or #3 economy in the world a generation from now. They not only have to deal with the likely internal political turmoil associated with much of their population desiring democracy but also potential threats from their immediate nearby neighbors (Japan, India, Russia, and Taiwan all of which have been the source of historical difficulties) and also what many communist nations have found to be unsustainable economic growth rates as the initial rise from forced urbanization and industrialization subsides (i.e. Russia). Oh yeah, and a massive population in a world of increasing communications serves up the possible threat of unrule.

There is only one superpower right now.[/b][/quote]
Availability of porn doesn't enter into the discussion of superpowerdom?

Yes, my computer is a superpower.

LOL

You know when you have been reading a board for a long time when you can guess the arguments each contributer is going to make , before they actually do.

(most probably knew I'd post something like this too , I guess)

;-)))

PD my post was just referencing OTHER nations, since we talking about Canada.

The actions of non-state actors have always played a part in world history. Al Quada is not the first. They are just the most recent threat.

The US needs to change to face this challenge, this includes foreign policy and militarily. I think it already has started. Before 9/11 we had a rocky relationship with Pakistan ( I know its far from perfect, and they should be helping us out more, but we are at least engaged). Before 9/11 we spent billions on heavy military platforms like Tanks, now we need to invest in special ops, ad unconvential warriors.

PD- I agree a sledgehammer is not needed in many cases. There are many ways to influence foreign affairs, but the REAL threat of the sledgehammer gets attention.[/b][/quote]
Probably not a good day for me to be talking about this. My girlfriend's son, who is a USMC Captain and expecting his first child in September, is leaving within days for his third combat deployment in two and a half years.

It's his job - he signed up for it, and he's good at it - he willingly goes off to serve, unlike a lot of folks who are more than willing to sacrifice other people's sons and daughters.

Why, I suspect that the people he serves with will remember him even 30 years from now.

The first deployment was Afghanistan. No one with a shred of sense questioned that action. This is his second deployment to Iraq, while the job in Afghanistan remains undone (unless you accept the idea that drug lords are better for America than the Taliban, and are brain-dead enough to think they aren't scratching each other's back).

Oh well ... perhaps he'll get the parade from the grateful Iraqi people that Cheny or Rumcnara or one of GW's other puppets said would happen. Better that than a fucking car bomb or RPG.

That is one lucky mofo, PD! A warrior has no greater love than combat, so he must be in Heaven!

You know you've been posting on the board for a long time when you can do a search and cut and paste your old posts into a new thread. ;-)

Who else do you include as world superpowers? The Soviet Union disintegrated and as much as China will one day probably be a superpower I wouldn't consider them as such yet.

Consider the holy trinity of power; military, economic, and political.

China isn't even the largest economy in their region.

They play a small role on the international political stage - at least in comparison to the US. They are not even the dominant influential power in their region because of the Japanese/US relationship.

Can a nation that doesn't even have an aircraft carrier in the water yet be considered a military super power?

China faces incredible challenges just to continue their predicted rise to #2 or #3 economy in the world a generation from now. They not only have to deal with the likely internal political turmoil associated with much of their population desiring democracy but also potential threats from their immediate nearby neighbors (Japan, India, Russia, and Taiwan all of which have been the source of historical difficulties) and also what many communist nations have found to be unsustainable economic growth rates as the initial rise from forced urbanization and industrialization subsides (i.e. Russia). Oh yeah, and a massive population in a world of increasing communications serves up the possible threat of unrule.

There is only one superpower right now.[/b][/quote]
That's a good argument, but your playbook is a bit dated. The Russians were a super power and had a shit economy. Their huge military has gone and the cold war is over because they imploded, not because we won it.

But having said that, their superpower status was never questioned because of their military might. They could blow the planet out of its orbit. INF and Start talks went on for years to rid us of those wmd, but the real power to blow the planet out of its orbit was never discussed nor negotiated and it lies beneath the ocean with the submarine force.

The Russians still have the firepower to blow the world to hell in a handcart with the few extremely capable subs they have left. And they know it. The Chinese might not blow us out of our orbit, but they could bring an end to all human life with their current capabilities.

The UK and France could do the same.

Eventually Pakistan and India will be in that league as well.

So, if you go by the 60's superpower kind of definition, the US is only a player in the game. Maybe temporarily the biggest, but not the only one.

The Chinese are lockstepping western economies with their own and at any time could pull the pin and throw us all out. They know they have the US by the economic short and curlies. They will go back to struggling and suffering and surviving on a few bowls of rice as we crash and burn.

They have a long memory and have never forgiven us for partioning their country as well as supporting Taiwan.

Now, if the US continues to propogate wars of aggression, someone is going to get very pissed off and I don't think you want to do that. You are very vulnerable and the average American lives in fear now.

We are living in interesting times.

Why don't you take his place, buffy?

Why don't you take his place, buffy?[/b][/quote]
IIRC, Buffy's been in combat and got the Tshirt. :awinky:

Why don't you take his place, buffy?[/b][/quote]
Honestly? Because none of you deserve to have me put my life on the line for you. You people consistently vote to strip away every vestige of freedom this country has left.

It's so funny when I read you and Labret lament the coming tyranny of the Patriot Act and such -- yet you can't make the association between owning the product of your own labor and freedom. If you do not own your own body and the product of your own labor, you are not free in any meaningful sense. You belong to someone else. Yet you're worried about unlawful searches or wiretaps. The government can take 100% of your income away and spend it on rocket fuel to launch a go-cart to Mars, but you're worried about Americans killing people who have sworn their lives to dying as martyrs trying to murder Americans.

I will never shed another drop of blood for you or anyone else. As much as I love combat and warfare and killing bad guys, the thought that I might die to protect your right to sell your freedoms away makes me sick.

Why don't you take his place, buffy?[/b][/quote]


PD, Buff would go in a heart beat....

Of course I am not sure the Marine's would want some Army scrub anyway.

I understand your feelings about your GF's son. We all have loved ones who are serving overseas, many in combat zones. We wish them all the best, and owe them a debt that cannot be repaid.

"but you're worried about Americans killing people who have sworn their lives to dying as martyrs trying to murder Americans."

Could you please show me where the line of Iraqui's killing Americans forms? Not a lot of Iraqui martyrs about. Mostly Saudis who do that shit to Americans, not Iraquis.

While the Sunni are a minority in Iraq, they hate us.

Canada is actually concerned about what Americans are labeling as "anti-American". We aren't necessarily so, however many of us are fed up to here with the Republican company line. Bush has almost zero regard for his neighbour to the north. The fact that he failed to mention Canada's help to US friends during and around the time of the 9/11 events (that's only one example) did not go un-noticed.

Don't even get started on Iraq. The UN exists for a reason. It still holds power and always will. We play by the rules, and the US (or shall I say the Republicans) need to play by them also.

The Republican party in my opinion (and too many others) is bringing nothing to improve the state of your union. In fact, it clearly brings detriment. If I'm wrong, please elaborate and I will chalk it up to a lesson learned.

Chris, I think Canada isa great country and a historic allie of the US. Sometimes friends disagree. But Canadians should not be telling us how to protect our interests. It is one thing to be anti-war, and think our policy is wrong - but whining about it.... well it seems to be a Canadian past time. ( at least from the Canadians I see posting on the boards)

The UN does not look out of OUR interests. It is shocking to see how many people are ignorant on the concept of National Soverignty.

Any President who submits US interests to the UN should be impeached immediately.

As you said, "the Russians were a superpower". Exactly. You said it in past tense for a reason.

When the Soviet Union collapsed it lost it's superpower clout largely because it lost it's political power. The nation was no longer able to rule over the Baltic states. The satellite nations declared their independence. The threat of communism spreading in central and South America abated. Many nations around the world abandoned the Russian system. They turned to the US for military training, aid and sales.

Dozens of nations which only a few decades ago were communist nations because of Soviet influence now have free elections.

Russia is a power in the same way that France and Japan are but none are superpowers.

Fuck the UN. In the ass.

Honestly? Because none of you deserve to have me put my life on the line for you. You people consistently vote to strip away every vestige of freedom this country has left.

It's so funny when I read you and Labret lament the coming tyranny of the Patriot Act and such -- yet you can't make the association between owning the product of your own labor and freedom. If you do not own your own body and the product of your own labor, you are not free in any meaningful sense. You belong to someone else. Yet you're worried about unlawful searches or wiretaps. The government can take 100% of your income away and spend it on rocket fuel to launch a go-cart to Mars, but you're worried about Americans killing people who have sworn their lives to dying as martyrs trying to murder Americans.

I will never shed another drop of blood for you or anyone else. As much as I love combat and warfare and killing bad guys, the thought that I might die to protect your right to sell your freedoms away makes me sick.[/b][/quote]
Damn. I'm not good enough for a retired stunt cock to be willing to die for me.

That's cold.

I read the board, Peaches. I don't need anyone to tell me that buffy claims combat experience. I put in 9 years, 5 months, and 22 days myself, and would have retired at 30 if it hadn't been for a personal situation involving my children.

And unlike Buffy, I served to protect Americans - all Americans. Lefties and righties and and welfare mommas and dilatant rich folks. That even includes those igrnorant rednecks who consider themselves better than others by virtue of their race, their financial status, where they went to school, where theyt happened to be born, the amount of money that their mommy and daddy had, or whatever other reasons they used to convince themselves that their sorry, pathetic asses have some meaning.

As far as the rest of your diatriabe, Buffy, how utterly predictable and completely meaningless.

PD, some people around here really need to broaden their minds and let in a little perspective.

Mike, I still invite you or anyone else to tell us what the Republicans have brought to improve the state of your union. I would really like to know.

I second the notion

Fuck the UN

Kick the UN out of NYC and get the US out of the UN

Damn. I'm not good enough for a retired stunt cock to be willing to die for me.

That's cold.

I read the board, Peaches. I don't need anyone to tell me that buffy claims combat experience. I put in 9 years, 5 months, and 22 days myself, and would have retired at 30 if it hadn't been for a personal situation involving my children.

And unlike Buffy, I served to protect Americans - all Americans. Lefties and righties and and welfare mommas and dilatant rich folks. That even includes those igrnorant rednecks who consider themselves better than others by virtue of their race, their financial status, where they went to school, where theyt happened to be born, the amount of money that their mommy and daddy had, or whatever other reasons they used to convince themselves that their sorry, pathetic asses have some meaning.

As far as the rest of your diatriabe, Buffy, how utterly predictable and completely meaningless.[/b][/quote]
What's with this stunt cock business? Am I supposed to be insulted when people point out that I've been paid for sex? Why?

Or are you trying to reduce the sum of my life's experience to being a stunt cock? Is that the intent behind the attempted insult?

I don't need welfare and I don't need your tax dollars. I could survive on tree bark, roots, ant soup, and dirty water if I had to. Of course I was not stupid enough to have kids I couldn't afford or get addicted to drugs or anything like that.

It's unfortunate the left encourages weakness and stupidity. Self-perpetuating condition.

Bush has kicked the living crap out of a lot of bad guys, and I never have to worry about Osama Bin Laden directing any more terror against me. If he's still alive, he's being guarded by American soldiers in some secret cage. More likely, he's dead as fuck.

Bush has kicked the living crap out of a lot of bad guys, and I never have to worry about Osama Bin Laden directing any more terror against me. If he's still alive, he's being guarded by American soldiers in some secret cage. More likely, he's dead as fuck.[/b][/quote]
semper fi, Buff.

Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out. Right?

Hoo-ha!

semper fi, Buff.

Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out. Right?

Hoo-ha![/b][/quote]
Maybe in Canada, with such a heavy French influence, your motto is "take whatever they throw at you until it's time to surrender," but here in America, we have a history of preferring victory to death.

Maybe Americans don't know who the Canadian Prime Minister is because they are largely ignorant.



Last edited by Joe Sixpack at Feb 10 2004, 12:34 PM

You don't know the president of Angola because you are largely ignorant.

You don't know the president of Angola because you are largely ignorant.[/b][/quote]
Australia doesn't share a border with Angola.

Maybe Americans don't know who the Canadian Prime Minister is because they are largely ignorant.[/b][/quote]
Well that and the Canadian Prime Minister is of limited significance - The Mayor of Chicago, New York or Los Angeles have more stroke, not to mention many Governor's

and for the record the Prime Minister of Canada is Paul Martin

Australia doesn't share a border with Angola.[/b][/quote]
Geography is not the guiding factor.

What is it that you think breeds indifference among many Americans towards world politics?

See if you can tie it together, Joe. What causes Americans to be indifferent towards the politics of Canada and Australians to be indifferent towards the politics of Angola?

I know the answer.

Well that and the Canadian Prime Minister is of limited significance - The Mayor of Chicago, New York or Los Angeles have more stroke, not to mention many Governor's

and for the record the Prime Minister of Canada is Paul Martin[/b][/quote]
What do you mean more stroke? More power?

And be honest Vick, did you have to look up who the new PM is?