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Actual business thread...
Branding and crossover marketing (into mainstream mediums) are things I've been obsessing about lately...those whacky Armenians at cyberage.com have had a commercial in the works for a while and are finally gonna run it nationally on cable channels.
What do you all think about crossover marketing/branding? Have you even thought about doing it? I have some domains/sites in the works that I'm hoping to push through more mainstream mediums so this is my pet fetish lately. Whenever I see an ad about a net-based product/service in mainstream media I get all eyebally and shit. I think as the net/TV/cable integrate more and more...branding will become incredibly important - but I could be fuck all wrong. Here's the commercial btw: http://www.cyberage.com/tv |
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careful kiddo, you might actually have to agree with me on something. :awinky:
you'll hate this too ... the biggest crossover market is women ;-) >>I think as the net/TV/cable integrate more and more...branding will become incredibly important - but I could be fuck all wrong. perfect example of this is the current music industry ... net, tv, cable and cell phones all working together to pump out crap that teenagers spend a fortune on. MTV is a great example ... with the introduction of cable tv, then cell phone multimedia recently, MTV has become a huge power controlling a lot of media assets - meaning anytime new technology comes along, they own assets and a brand to guarantee instant success in a new medium. mainstream is almost impossible to crack without a brand ... the suits actually care about media kits and pretty graphics ... even if the audience doesn't, you can't get to them without impressing the suits. |
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Ted Turner will be happy to run this infomercial on WTBS.
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You people try and hold yourselves up as guru's...actual business people who don't follow the "zoo" bullshit - I wanted to hear some opinions about actual business...you obviously don't have any. Not one of you asswipes can compare to the money these fuckers have - they're gambling and I'm interested in seeing the outcome of that gamble because it can impact long term business stategies. |
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TV can work if you really pound it into the ground. It also helps to have an offline product that can be ordered by phone so you dont leave the revenue from people who are "offline" on the table.
Best example of TV branding for adult stuff that I can remember is Girls Gone Wild. He built a hell of a brand off that thing. But you couldn't hardly turn on the TV late at night without hearing that goofy caribbean music theme and see hotties dropping their bikini tops. But remember he was also pushing DVD's and video tapes at the same time, the traffic to the website was purely incidental in his business plan. |
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Either they’re just throwing venture capital (or their own) away or they’re seeing a return because they keep advertising month after month. That makes me take a look - a very serious look. edit: It could be that I'm just obsessed...for fuck's sake I have a notebook here with companies I've seen - where they advertise, the products - the minium advertising based on the medium/contract and how long they've advertised - if they're still going beyond the mininum, how long they went beyond the minimum etc., |
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I don't think one can brand without having "mega-money". That means TV commercials and event sponsorships. Look at the stupid names, Google, Yahoo, E-Harmony - who would buy e-harmony as a date site name? No one! - Monster - who would buy that domain as a job site? Again, no one.
Tons of money can make the stupidest sounding anything brandable. So my question is, aeon, do you think it's possible to do branding without $50 million in the startup coffers? And if so, how? |
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I did give you some good business advice. Read Hell Puppys post about Girls Gone Wild. That started out on WTBS as an informercial. Matter of fact if memory serves me correct that was one of Teds rev sharing commercials. He ran your ad.... took the orders with his processing as well as a percentage for advertising and processing. You wont find this info on the Zoo. Besides I know you like all that teen explotation. |
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Alot of ppl poo poo ideas they dont' understand. Me, I'd like to hear more of what you are doing. |
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The crossover aspect is interesting to be sure. Like Dravyk said though it might be harder without a hard product to be had. The credit card is certainly interesting. Not sure how many would take advnatage of that though. Still, worth the effort to see if it can succeed.
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aeon,
I think most people here are looking hard at nonadult projects. back in 96 hardly any TV ads mentioned a website.Now they all do. One here says this ad is "censored" come and see it at www...etc etc. But branding is to me only a part. Infact I am "nickatilynx" because ilynx was my first site , and rather than buy a sensible domain I thought I could brand "ilynx". Anyway.. A couple of years ago Ant and myself were exploring infomercials to attract viewers to websites. The late night 15sec slots are so cheap that if my mind is right it was basically one join per 2 ads and you were into gross porfit. The thing that currently is giving me the horn is gambling. I love this scenario. Place bet on horse race/dog race/sporting event. Receive reminder on cell phone and option to stream race or event onto your cell phone . Frankly adult bores me to tears these days. |
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It manages to get the message out to the masses in a relatively cheap medium. The effect of that message can be immediately tracked by the number of visitors to the website. From a marketing analysis perspective you can't get much better information. This can all be then analysed and adjustments can be made quickly and effectively. In the past, while people were watching your commercials, it was sometimes a little harder to find out the effect any particular part of the advertising campaign was having. And by extension, what to change. This sort of advertising can show the companies exactly what they're doing right and wrong, and help to justify the expense. Instead of throwing say 5000 in advertising and hoping for the best, companies and now much more easily throw that money in and say... ok was it worth it?. wow... I get to contribute to an actual business thread. |
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It will be interesting to see which TV stations run these commercials. I am sure the same people who run the Girls gone Wild videos would so it. Which is E! and Comedy Central. There could be some local channels you could run it on at off hours.
The problem is, there are a lot of do gooders who would create boycotts, start phone banks and other techiniques to force channels not to accept "porn" commercials. I think the commercial was fine for prime time TV but I am hardly the normal consumer. Another thing to think about is buying spots of TV. From what I understand when Girls Gone Wild first ran commercials they had to guaruntee so many spots and prepay. ( I think ti was up to $1 million in cash). So it takes some bank to get this going. I remember Paolo from tripleX was trying to do something similiar for his campusfuckparty website ( or whatever the site was). I saw the commercials, they were very close to the GGW ones, and I think they would have sold well. Not sure whatever happened with it. He might be a person to talk with. |
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20k and you were in. The BITCH was getting a script etc etc etc to comply with there guidelines Shit somewhere in storage I have all the researtdch on it. my plan was pretty much a rehash of the old Pamela Anderson fan site of a few years ago. Build a really tame Pamela Anderson site , lots og G pics etc etc , nice bio , some gushing shit about how hot she was. Get it listed everywhere cause it was nonadult........and then slip in ,hidden away a link to the video. Worked like gangbusters. :) |
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Pam Anderson was on with Larry King I think last night. She was saying how she didnt make one penny off of that video. I know several people that made a killing off of it...thru Maxcash. One local here was selling the fucker on VHS. He tells me it was public domain. I told him he is one lucky motherfucker. |
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Just different angles ;-))) How many times have you heard me say: "Yeah , we were doing that in 99" "Yeah Anthony and I came up with a similar idea in ..." ;-))) |
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"You'll see it on MTV, MTV2, USA, Comedy Central, E, and much more." I'm mainly interested in doing this with non-adult shit...tho it may be edgy per se, it won't be porn so do gooders aren't really relevant. Finally some cool info being tossed around here tho. |
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Being US based, Gambling is a no no for me and something I can't market, but that scenario you just posted Nick is pretty precise.
The better plan of trying to do ityourself is get the ppl who already have the foundation and can provide the service. SMS is going to be huge, without a doubt. I sat through a presentation of SMS and what it's done over in Europe, and it just blows my mind. |
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While we are at it, we have commercials running on MTV, MTV2, BET, and a few other channels for CrazyClubChicks.com
Just waiting to see how the data looks on it. |
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Very cool.. should be interesting to see for sure. |
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In Los Angeles, a new variety rock radio station offering listeners everything from Classic Rock to 90’s Rock does not reveal on-air the lineup. Instead, they request you log on to their website and follow the streaming playlist.
Interesting? The radio station is the main hub of the business platform, or so we would logically assume. But their vigilant push towards their e-based presence is very telling in another way. Dave has the capital whereas most people do not. Capital is king in business. Starbucks is known for opening up operations near Coffee Beans and losing money with the intention of shutting down the competition. They knock the brands off the streets. They can afford to lose revenue on certain operations. Coffee Bean really can’t (or so I will assume for the sake of this thread). People cry about this on the news every night. The despair of one mom and pop pharmacy shutting down in Kansas for a Wal-Mart which hires 10 times more employees and offers benefits is viewed by the public as the gateway to hell. It is a simple concept and one that I hope finally takes the inevitable “economist” shape. I open a car wash across the street from a resident car wash. I lower the price and offer a free oil change with every car wash. I break even and still eat every night. The car wash across the street shuts down. I buy the lot; open a laundry mat, etc…One or two others can move into the market and compete, but thousands simply can’t. The Internet has a flaw in business philosophy and that flaw is continuously exposed and utilized in very self-defeating ways. Nick can have as much money as he likes, he can never prevent me from pillaging one sale a day from him. He can hardly prevent me from undercutting him via unsavory business practices. I have the ability to aspire to make one sale per day. What other medium allows this? What Dave is doing is removing himself in an isolated fashion from this current, unorthodox business ideology and placing himself in more conventional territory. He is putting himself in the eyes of consumers that can’t completely be accessed by some guy harboring a few domains. TGP’s will not be purchasing this ad space. Consumers hit Cyberage and Dave presents them with the Adult Internet. They see some trailers and free pictures and then they pay for a member area. That is how the Internet works right? You pay for a product? : ) Otherwise, the consumer hits the Internet, does a search, hits a site filled with $2000 content blowout and may or may not purchase. They could have hit a site with exclusive content not harvesting their emails. Business philosophy flawed. Dave is just leveling the playing field. It will level itself independently some day. But as with everything, there are no guarantees. If I want you to listen to my streaming radio station on a daily basis, I need to get you there first. Otherwise, the saturation of an open market will bury me. |
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Just one of the reasons why I love Cory ;)
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I guess the point that Nick made was we looked at this earlier, about 3 years ago, and the market was just not there.
The US were too strigent, and the Canadian market too small. It may have changed over the years. |
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Ok, so here's my disjointed, fractured message regarding.. well, im not sure yet, I'll tell you when im done writing.
I think the future of branding is completely different than how it exists in its current state. Like many instituitions of our 'old' economy (I dont like using the words 'old' and 'new' simply because of the connection to internet bubbledom, but.. I did), the notion of branding is a centralized, top-down mechanism where by a business entity creates a state of suspended disbelief in the conusmer through marketing and advertising. Through a complex interwoven matrix of mediums, an abstract thing called a 'brand' is created in the collective consciousness of the society. This is how branding works today, and there are different mediums (TV, internet, etc..) seperated by a psychological barrier; I say Psychological barrier because, in reality, there is no distinct difference, in my opinion, between a message being sent on TV or on the internet, or radio or what have you - its just data. We are now in a transitional time where we deploy the ideas of the 'old economy' using the technology that will fundamentally alter these Paradigms.. there now exists a lag between what the technology is capable of and the way we use it. We're like the mule with the spinning wheel.... Next post - the future!! edit for grammar and spelling :P |
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TV does get a lot of exposure, but funnily enough the tube stations in London get a hell of a lot too as do other cities, with their billboards and advertising inside and outside the trains. Millions use these each day as do the airports where people are just milling around not wishing to make eye contact with others. Commuters/tourists are tightly packed liked sardines reading the adverts, waiting for their stop and a captive audience .. typically they wait for anything up to 8 minutes on a platform here in London for a tube train and everyone has a phone. The typical journey is at least 5-10 minutes in a confined space. I am currently looking at bluetooth technology to transmit information from these billboards/posters straight to a users phone when they pass by them with all the relevant details for website, email addresses etc, so there is no work for them to do. Even the possibility of transferring the animated flash/video advert so they have a copy of it on their phone as a freebie :)
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I think you are on to something AEON, and my two cents is commercials are a splendid idea , also one should look at the alternative newspapers in different towns ( try college towns or big city's first) the ads are relativly inexpensive, they dont mid adult in most cases, and reach a huge readership base in many towns. I sold my 420 calendar out of these newspapers and that was where I got most of my sales from.
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And now... the future.
Im not sure how many of you are familiar with the concept of prosumerism - where the consumer is the producer - it is this idea is what will change the economy and especially the production/consumtion of media in the future. I will attempt to apply this idea to the concept of branding and show how stupid it is for a guy like Rupert Murdoch to buy MySpace. Working everyday within the cozy, virtual confines of the internet give me (and Im sure all of you) a sense of having an 'insiders' view of whats really happening on the Internet. Am I the only one who can see that this 'internet' is what the entire future of our global economy will be built on? And its not even the physical wires and servers that matter (you think China will lay a bazillion miles of optical cable? yes.. they will.. but not to the end user). It is the wireless pervasiveness of the internet - everywhere, all the time, completely surrounding us - no 'offline' no 'online' - all these are old ideas that wont apply. The Internet will be an all penetrating aura and we will interact with it, use devices to peer inside of it, create with it, upload into it and download from it. This is where the traditional notions of branding go out the window. Companies will not be able to plan and deploy a 'brand' - brands will create themselves and exist seperate from ownership - the empowered prosumer will be the brand, everyone has the opportunity to be their own brand. for example - the term 'blog' is to me a brand. When I hear 'blog' it conjures up a whole set of ideas in my mind. And yet, no company owns the concept of 'blog' - it just is. And it is because it has been created from the bottom up, a completely organic almost living thing that transcends a corporate marketing think tank. Given the fickleness of the internet and the velocity of information in todays world, a company like Fox buying myspace - looking to capitalize on blogs - has no idea what they are getting themselves into. You cant 'own' the internet, because it costs virtually nothing to create something on the internet - and things on the internet recreate themselves of their own momentum, that is not something you can buy. Google is a wonderful example of this, and (along with yahoo) I think will be the first companies to live an e-lifecycle. Google appeared virtually out of nowhere 7 years ago - and given their current position - are a testament to the power of the internet. I think, however, that they will be a victim of their own success and unless they grab onto the new paradigms that will drive the economy 10, 20 years from now, they will be irrelevant. With regards to the fox/mypace thing, I was dicussing it with one of my coworkers and he said "Do you know how much traffic you could buy for $500 million!!", an obviously hyperbolic comment, but poignant. Companies operate on old ideas - to control from the top down, thats what they know how to do. Yet, in the future, the power - and the money - will be the ability to participate in as many peer-to-peer interactions as possible, while being able to instantly deploy your participation to anywhere on the net. Ok Im done. Cliff notes anyone? |
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Originally Posted by Dravyk So my question is, aeon, do you think it's possible to do branding without $50 million in the startup coffers? And if so, how? Quote:
I mentioned E-harmony, and that what was on my mind. That site is on, it seems, every channel and all times of day including peak times. And I was thinking of a sustained campaign as they have been doing for years also. Obviously late night or Canadian television (which again didn't even come to mind when I posted in the wee hours) would be a whole lot cheaper. |
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Someone mentioned SMS marketing earlier but that is already becoming old technology. Check out the advertising section of yesterday's Wall Street Journal Online for a different form of mobile phone marketing that's getting a take up of anything up to 15% from it's target audience.
And it really is targeted marketing - unfortuantely there is only one company in America who is testing the technology right now on a very limited scale but it's becoming very popular in the UK and Europe. And aeon those notebooks aren't obsession - that's research. |
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That's the link to the Wall Street Journal article |
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BTW glad to have you back. Spaz tells me good things about yall. |
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I can see however how this could be majorly annoying. I know if I were in an airport and my cellphone rang for a commercial, or, let's say I'm talking to someone on the cell, and it says, another incoming call ... That said, still quite interesting. |
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Gonzo, sms is not dead and won't be for many years ..most adult companies can't get their heads behind the concept and how many have actually launched .. i can name two maybe three, that are any good or have infrastructure in place ..
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From April 2005, found a thread on a message board. Guy asks if SMS is popular in "your country". People around the world wondered if this guy was serious and started spouting figures about how widespread it is, in Ireland, India, Japan, you name it. They they start to all say "what is with you yanks that you haven't adopted it". Guy replies about two articles. One was Canada, 6.3 out of 10 do not use text messaging. In some provinces, like Vancouver it's 7.1 out of 10 with cellphones do not use it. He then quotes another survey saying in the US, 9 out of 10 do not use it. Will it ever catch on here? Don't know. It seriously seems stupid to us to start typing with our thumbs crap like "Dude, sup?" "Nutin" "Ok, l8r". But obviously the rest of the world seems enthralled with it. Hmm. Does that include Australia, I wonder? |
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http://www.text.it/mediacentre/defau...?intPageID=132 |
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"Breakfast?" "Where are we eatin?" "Whats for dinner?" |
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SMS is quite big here in Australia - even in a town as small as this one 50k people you will often see people in the street, in cafes and even on the beach sending text messages.
And it's not just limited to young people - you will see quite a few older people sending messages too. Businesses use it as well - my daughter is in IT and the company she worked for used it to send alerts if something went wrong when the IT staff was off duty. She even used it to start the daily back up process when she was holidaying with us. The data centre was two states away and although the backup was supposed to start automatically it often didn't. She would get an SMS alert - respond to it by dialing another number and waiting till she got an automated response and then hang up and the back up would begin. |
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