Are pupils at the world's first "gay" state school victims of segregation or symbols of progressive thinking?
The majority of pupils at Harvey Milk High School in New York are gay and were bullied at their previous school for their sexuality.

Harvey Milk refuses to be classified as a "gay school" even though that is the general perception of it from opponents and supporters alike. But it says its unique brand of segregated education fully deserves its public funding.

It says it provides for a small population of victimised and bullied pupils who are made to feel so freakish in mainstream high schools that they are falling behind in lessons, too scared to go to school and missing out on a proper education.

Not everyone thinks this is a valid cause.

"If we need a special school for homosexuals, maybe we need a special school for little short fat kids, because they get picked on too" is the view of Mike Long, chairman of the Conservative Party in New York.

'Pregnant' school

He feels making Harvey Milk an official, state-funded High School has been done behind tax-payers' backs - "on the sneak", as he puts it.

New York does not yet have a school for undersized people with bad eyesight. But minorities of many kinds are already catered for - children who aspire to be fire-fighters, pregnant teenage girls and pupils interested in "active pedagogy" such as rock-climbing.


There is no school sign on the outside
One year after opening, the atmosphere inside the school is as unorthodox as you might expect. The Harvey Milk pupils I met were no shrinking violets.

They were self-confident, self-aware and vocal teenagers who seemed to be flourishing in the seclusion of this school.

And it is secluded. From the street, you cannot even tell it is a school. An anonymous entrance between shops and cafes in downtown Manhattan leads, via checks by security guards, to a lift which runs only to the third floor and opens up into a corridor of lockers with classrooms and offices off it.

There are about 160 pupils, more than half of them girls, all between the ages of 14 and 18.

Some pupils look like they could be at school anywhere, others don't. Two teenage boys in crop-tops with long, permed hair are having a heated but good-humoured exchange ("Don't go there, girlfriend!") with an older-looking black girl with a shaved head and heavy boots.

Here you can just be yourself and nobody will talk and make stupid comments

Vampira, 16
They're almost all Hispanic or black, from the worst-off areas of The Bronx, Queens or Brooklyn. They had to nominate themselves to come here.

For most of them, arrival seems to have brought a sense of release. Vampira, 16, says Harvey Milk has become "like my second family".

She says how relieved she is she no longer has to hide her sexuality. "Here you can just be yourself and nobody will talk and make stupid comments."

"I had my problems with people at my old school", says 15-year-old Chanelle. "It was the whole straight thing - the jocks, the football players and so on and, personally, I didn't fit in and I was missing out on my credits. I figured - get out of there".

Good grades

Several pupils stress that they would never have made any academic progress without the school. Ninety-five per cent of Harvey Milk pupils graduate, compared to just over half high school pupils across New York generally.

The teenagers are frank about events that brought them here. Tanaja, a recent graduate, talks about her parents' horror the day she came out to them, aged 14. She comes from a family of strict Jehovah's Witnesses.

Her mother and father put locks on the bedroom door. They forbade her to have any physical contact with her younger brother and sister, who was four. She felt her only option was to leave home and Harvey Milk helped find her a place to stay.


Inside, just like any other school...
Jazzy, 16, says he inadvertently "outed" himself to his mother the same day he discovered she was lesbian, but laughs now about the time they bumped into each other with respective boyfriend and girlfriend.

Critics of the school wonder how teenagers can be clear enough about their sexuality at such a young age, to ask for a place at Harvey Milk.

Josh Lamont, from the organisation Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, which collects statistics for the US Education Department, says he's used to raised eyebrows when he tells people the average age of coming out is now fifteen. " A generation ago that figure was closer to twenty-one," he says.

'God Hates Fags'

Others who oppose the school, including gay rights activists, say creating a new form of gay ghetto is no way to encourage integration and understanding. In the real world, they say, gay and straight people have to learn to co-exist.

But some disagree. More than once, Harvey Milk's pupils have had to walk through groups of protesters on the pavement outside.

They have had insults hurled at them by angry members of the public brandishing placards saying "God Hates Fags" and "Go to Hell Harvey Milk Students".

At very least, Harvey Milk gives them strength in numbers. They ignore the protests and go to school.

What do you think about what Harvey Milk school is doing? A selection of your comments appear below.

Not fitting in is a major problem for gay school kids - and not just from prejudice. Not feeling part of your classmates discussions about girls and boys, feeling that there's something wrong with you, and even worrying that other kids of the same sex think you're being friendly for other reasons, are just as bad, even when that exclusion may not be deliberate. I wish I had the opportunity to go to a gay school when I was younger, as I might not have felt so excluded.
Paul Birrell, Luxembourg

I think this is a joke and this is not a way of getting rid of the problem, this will put pressure on other gay victims to not go to school and say they should have the opportunity of an all gay school.
Jerry Devlin, Ireland

Good luck to them. 95% graduation rate, how many would have graduated had they been taunted and bullied in a traditional setting?
Jason Millard, UK

As an "out" homosexual, it strikes me that this school is not about coming out of any closet, but of stepping right back into one and slamming the door. This is ghetto politics at its worst.
Dauvit Alexander, Scotland

In an ideal world we wouldn't need the Harvey Milk School. I don't agree with segregation, and feel that gay pupils should be taught alongside heterosexual pupils. However, I believe that gay pupils have the right to learn in an environment free from bullying and intimidation, which sadly only the Harvey Milk School provides. Obviously, more needs to be done in schools to prevent harrassment of gay students. Until then we will unfortunately need places like the Harvey Milk School.
Steve, UK

At my school my sexuality was a big taboo and the only way to get along was to just not mention it. I know some kids who were beaten up, some even sexually assaulted because of their sexuality. The fact that these children don't think that they can get ahead in main stream schools I think is a sad fact about the education system they have been excluded from.
Sarah, Wales

Being gay myself I know what it is like to go through school as a gay teenager. You never really are made to fit in and I think it's great that the kids at that school have somewhere to go and feel comfortable. But I don't think segregated schools are the way to go. I think it proper education in schools that is needed!
Chris, Leicester

At the end of the school day these students still have to integrate into society, so it's better that they face up to adversity than just shy away from it in their own designated place. I fear to think after religious schools, there may be schools divided by colour and so on. More divisions = more problems. Inclusion is the only solution.
Mo, UK

While I disagree with the taunts these pupils may have received, I think this is a ridiculous idea. I was tormented at school for being a bit over weight, but I didn't get to go to "Fat School".
Tim, Manchester, UK

Good for them! I am 59 now and I was bullied at school. I sympathise 100%. Adolescence is a trying time and extra pressures can make or break a person's dreams.
Ian, Barcelona, Spain

A daft idea. How can tolerance & understanding be achieved by segregating people. This school identifies pupils by their sexuality, surely the opposite of what we're trying to achieve.
Peter, UK


The Article

oh hell I'm staying away from this one.

Its fucking stupid is what it is LOL

Next well be seeing all 'black' schools, all 'midget' schools and the likes.

My thoughts exactly.

Makes it alot easier for them to get dates.

BTW.. why the hell arent they protesting that a 1st world nation lets 50% of it kids fail high school?????

I Hope 95% graduation is close to normal in Australia...

Doesn't mean they attended class for 4 years and didn't have the credits to graduate, they drop out to go fulltime with their local streegang or local burger king.

This makes no sense. All the gay guys in New Orleans went to Jesuit and Brother Martin!

If you guys could see what it looks like in front of that school before and after class you would say to yourself they definitely needed their own school. These aren't just your run of the mill gay students. It's the friggin Birdcage! There was no way any of these kids could have made it out of a Bronx or Brooklyn public school unharmed or even educated.

I don't understand what all the hubub now is about since the school has been open for at least a decade.

Lets be honest even though it has been around for a few years it is only recently where the right-wing pro-gay group has started forcing certain issues in the country.

Thats the reason why it is an issue now and not when the school opened.

I went to Brother Martin : )

Doesnt that prove Mikes point Billy ;) LOL

Doesnt that prove Mikes point Billy ;) LOL [/b][/quote]


So did Richard Simmons!!

:bdance: :purpdance:

they don't want it called a gay school because they don't want Bush to bomb them.....

Lets be honest even though it has been around for a few years it is only recently where the right-wing pro-gay group has started forcing certain issues in the country.

Thats the reason why it is an issue now and not when the school opened. [/b][/quote]
exactly - lets outrage the public by bringing every potential moral controversy to the media & carrying on about it when it most suits the political adgenda ...

why is it any of our business anyway?!

let the fucking kids go to school in peace, however that is achieved - teenagers have enough shit to deal with these days without having all of us jump up and down about how they are educated.

They are being educated - they have a 95% graduation rate - they are happy

So what is our problem?

jealousy? fear?

The argument that 'we all need to learn to get along in situations we dont like' is bullshit ... if someone in a work environment called someone else 'a stupid fag' or any of the other names kids call each other in school, they would be fired. If a group of work people got together and threw rocks or flushed heads down toilets, the company would be sued in a very public court case & someone would get awarded a lot of money.

As an adult, we can make choices to hang out with people who we share common interests with and who we like - we aren't forced to sit for 6 hours with a group of 30 kids who hate us. In life, we aren't forced to work alongside people who treat us like punching bags or who pick on us in the ways students get picked on.

Adults have the resources they need to avoid most dangerous situations ... we drive cars, not walk to the bus stop past groups of bullies ... as an adult we aren't forced to sit in the seat at the front of the class with a bully throwing shit at our heads ... adults DO NOT have to deal with the general immaturity of teenagers who repeat the narrow minded views of their parents and media added to their lack of life experience.

Teenagers do not understand tolerance, because adults don't teach it to them.

The next time you say something like 'fucking turban head' or 'fags are responsible for aids', make sure your children are not in the room ... they are the ones who run to school repeating what they've heard you say and thinking its the truth.

Not one of us has the right to decide whether those children have the right to their own school - everyone has a right to eduation and safety in the society we live in. If the public school system isn't giving that, its the responsiblity of the society to fix it - however possible.

Screw this, there is mondo money here!

I just want to "geo"-target niched paysite traffic to all the graduates and alumni!!!

Please pass on all IPs for each of the various schools' intra networks and their applicable niches to me. Once verified, big bucks will be headed your way. Thank you. :)

Yet it is almost always adult who complain that teenagers do not have any respect or tolerance for others.

Im sure you just posted a pearl there CJ ;)

One thing I can't tolerate is intolerance!


errr cj...

No one ever fired me!!! ;-)))

errr let see "No ,none of that happened at the office of Whitcon , Netpond , nor at Traffic Inc "






....less than 20 times a day.



Jump off the high horse for just a second

What about BobX's car?
guys thrown duck taped to their seat thrown into the street with a sign on them?
Come on CJ.....


You may want to live in an idyllic situation , but that ain't reality.

Walk 20 paces behind a transsexual , and watch peoples reactions..

I see the money making opportunity, and Nick sees the social inequities.

What's wrong with this picture? :blink:

And the fucking Dutch!! :awinky:

I'm too busy getting in touch with the guy disposing of the dead bodies for my necrophilliac membership club.

And the fucking Dutch!! :awinky: [/b][/quote]
The fucking dutch!!!

Clog wearing bastards!!



And they are fucking intolerant.

Nick, let me rephrase that ...

if A GROUP OF ADULTS worked together in a PROFESSIONAL environment (90% of employment situations) it would not be tolerated and would bring with it huge legal issues.

did you employ anyone who is gay? no ... you employed a bunch of the assholes that were the problem in public schools ... would anyone who is gay have been able to work in your environment? no way!! you probably would have all ignored him or incorrectly flattered yourself by thinking that he was trying to hit on you ... my point, he would have been treated differently.

when you beat each other up, its a case of all the bullies gathering together to behave childishly - all consenting - even the dickheads who stuck around to be treated like shit in the hope of making some bucks or getting free ... you know.

We are talking about situations where teenagers are *seriously* hurt because of who they are - not a bunch of 20 - 50 year old children whose work involves the fun activities in your office.

Adults have 'niche groups' of every kind - we have the choice whether or not to put ourselves into offensive situations ... why shouldn't teenagers have the same opportunities open to them?

a question for straight guys ...

when you are around a gay man, how many times do you think/act a certain way because you think that guy is going to hit on you because he likes men?

They would ???

I think I'm gonna get a lawyer...They told me that Flushies was part of the job description..... :blink:

let me post this while I wait for cj to be thrown off her high horse....



B

What about Anthony!!!! ;-))

OMFG CJ!!!!

OMFG!!!!


You really do underestimate us all.

Holy fuck...


Who wants to kick her ass off her high horse...

let me post this while I wait for cj to be thrown off her high horse....



B

What about Anthony!!!! ;-)) [/b][/quote]
rotflmfao...I was gonna bring up Ant......









but don't want him to kick my ass...... :yowsa:

Personally, I have never noticed whether a guy was gay or not unless it was in a gay bar... So, seriously, I have never consciously changed my behavior to avoid someone or their advances.

When I have had an advance from a gay guy I very politely have told them that I am straight and that was the end of it.

Interesting post CJ. I have worked for Whitcon for seven years or so...a couple of years before I met my boyfriend. P8 and some of the other guys have visited me in San Francisco and they didn't seem at all concerned. I've also never had the slightest problem in the Vancouver office, although if my shoes and dress clashed, I am sure I would get a reaction :)

HOMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



he ain't heavy....he's my brother ;-)))


Actually he is a fat fuck , so he is heavy.

;-)))

Technick, what relationship are you to Nick?

Technick (or should we say REAL NIck)

How the hell are you ???

Glad you finally found the place !!!!

Hope you stick around man.

Look at the post above you CJ :)

OMFG CJ!!!!

OMFG!!!!


You really do underestimate us all.

Holy fuck...


Who wants to kick her ass off her high horse... [/b][/quote]
Just so I get this clear Nick, before I point out the bullshit that's sliding off your chin ...

You have NEVER done this?

HOMO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



he ain't heavy....he's my brother ;-)))


Actually he is a fat fuck , so he is heavy.

;-))) [/b][/quote]
You did all that icqing or phone calling to get him to come here to post just so you could say that, didn't you ?






















Good Job :okthumb:

Yeah , he is the real Nick.

Its all in his name :)

The domains.



















the law suits , the warrants....









everything cept the money :)

Look at the post above you CJ :) [/b][/quote]
I hit post as he was posting S, but thanks so much for your help ...


So Nick, Technick, you are comparing the entire issue we are discussing above using blood relatives as an example?

Am I understanding this correctly?

There should be no gay schools because you tolerate your brother?

HAHAHA now i gotta go wipe my monitor after spitting coffee over it lol

He's my big brother CJ :)