I've been thinking more on this Ohio case where the guy got pummeled by 6 cops. They obviously knew the guy was strung out on PCP. He was exhibiting all the classic signs of it. They knew he was severly obese and would therefore have health problems. They knew violently trying to pound him into submission would send his body into total stress which could and did trigger his heart attack that he died of as a result.

Maybe its time to require Police in situations like this to show some restraint when arresting strung out people. Like they do now when pursuits become way too risky to continue.

The guy obviously couldn't go anywhere with 6 police there. Why the need to fuck the guy up that much?

Yeh, I know you fuck with the cops and that's what happens. I've said that myself. But now, I really think its time to rethink these types of arrest situations where clearly taking the arrest into intense violence with a wolf pack approach and 6 clubs swinging wildly only risks the cop's lives more as well as the drugged out person's.

I don't think anyone can justify someone's death at the hands of police during an arrest unless they are shooting at the cops.



Last edited by KRL at Dec 3 2003, 01:08 PM

I'm going to disagree with you on this on, KRL (and we were doing so well! :P )

Here's an interesting write up from Boortz (whom I'm sure many of those in academia feel is Satan :awinky: ). It says how I feel about it better than I could do myself:

The Justice Department is getting into the act in the death of Nathaniel Jones in Cincinnati. Jones was the huge man who, while high on cocaine and other drugs, attacked police. Police fought back, trying to subdue Jones. He was hit with clubs during the process. Later Jones was taken to a hospital where he died. Now for many race warlords it's time to lynch a cop or two.

My attitude on people who attack police officers is really very simple. When you assault a law enforcement officer you have given them permission to kill on the spot. There were only two officers present when that now-famous video was shot. When Jones attacked one of them the other would would have been well within his rights to pull a gun and fire. Jones outweighed the officer he attacked by about 150 pounds. He could have overpowered that officer, taken his gun and killed him in just a matter of seconds. The second policeman took the high road though and waded in to try to help subdue the lard ass. Medical reports show that Jones only suffered bruises on the lower half of his body. The medical investigation shows that there was no damage to vital internal organs. This is exactly the way the police are trained. They did what they were supposed to do. They subdued a violent, drugged-up attacker properly. Jones died because he was in no physical condition to attack a police officer. He had an enlarged heart ... probably brought on by his eating habits .. a situation made worse with his drug habit.

These police should be exonerated quickly and put back on the job.

Are you saying people strung out on PCP who attack cops have no responsibility for what happens to them?

Police brutality is when they tell someone to get on the ground, the person gets on the ground without offering any resistance and is then beaten.

People on drugs who attack cops deserve what they get.



Last edited by FATPad at Dec 3 2003, 10:16 AM

Cops deserve to kill who they want.

They are soldiers dressed in blue.

god has sent heathens and gay moms to tear apart the fabric of this country.

we are at war with them.

police are gods angels and have every right to issue the most lethal dose of justice, execution for one's crime.

:awinky:



Last edited by Fletch XXX at Dec 3 2003, 10:17 AM

Well I see your point to an extent Peaches. However, once they had the guy contained, which certainly they did with 6 cops there, shouldn't there be a point in time where you have to say, ok he threw a punch, but it's clear he's not trying to take a cop's life, and is just all messed up on drugs, and now the level of intensity should scale down a bit and do something simple like throw a net over the guy and subdue him that way instead of just beating the shit out of him when they know guys on PCP don't respond to getting the shit beat out of them?

quick story along the same lines that actually happened here in smalltown:

A guy was strung out on coke, went after a cop (a friend of mine)
he (the cop) is a mini Arnold S. (in great shape)

The guy kept coming after him saying and acting like he was invincible.
The night stick did nothing. Fearing for his well being, He popped him in the buttocks with his 9mm.

Later, after drying out and going to court, he publically THANKED the cop for shooting him and helping him straighten out.

I'm with Peaches on this one..... the man probably could have killed the cops had they not tried to restrain him.

the most regretful thing about that situation is that they could only beat him to death once.

Yeah, I admit it's a tough call on what to do once the threat is semi-contained. And it's one that I hope I NEVER have to make.

Yeah, I admit it's a tough call on what to do once the threat is semi-contained. And it's one that I hope I NEVER have to make.[/b][/quote]
I had several friends who were cops when I lived in LA, and the way they would joke about their night stick beatings was pretty sad. They really did take pleasure in fucking people up and going way past the point where they should have stopped. And they all used deragatory racial terms when referring to hispanics and blacks.

I had several friends who were cops when I lived in LA, and the way they would joke about their night stick beatings was pretty sad. They really did take pleasure in fucking people up and going way past the point where they should have stopped. And they all used deragatory racial terms when referring to hispanics and blacks.[/b][/quote]
I have friends who know of this all too well.

Pigs are pigs no matter what.

cops are cool :okthumb:

http://www.interventionmag.com/cms/img/mia.jpg

no... morons challenging the police to fight is cool. otherwise we would not get all these cool videos where we can mock idiots competing for the Darwin Awards

There was no way the cops could have known that this man had an enlarged heart.

However, the man himself knew that he had an enlarged heart, and still CHOSE to take cocaine, CHOSE to take PCP, and CHOSE to attack a police officer and resist arrest.
One person who saw the video here at Oprano said he was still coming up trying to grab nightsticks, not putting his hands behind his head or sticking them straight up into the air... but still trying to attack.
And he CHOSE to do that.

The cops, however, had no choice but to defend themselves and each other.

Besides, I don't know too many beat cops who carry nets for 400 pound "10 feet tall and bulletproof" idiots in their trunk :awinky:

Dear KRL:

The police are trained to use force equal to the threat they perceive is coming at them. The greater the perceived threat the greater the level of force is justified.

This 350 man attacked an officer and refused to cooperate, and they beat him with batons big time, but not in the head, and with no use of guns.

The big guy's heart gave out from the stress of the beating, his own drug use, and the struggle with police.... and he died. He was denied medical care for at least a couple of minutes (until the ambulance came back) but this probably doesn't rise to the level of "deliberate indifference to serious medical needs".

Like you, I wish the police had been able to defuse this situation without the pack-mentality beating they administered....or at least taken a break to confirm the big guy still wasn't cooperating. Rodney King took a MUCH more severe beating than this guy did and he didn't die...."normally" the use of force they used wouldn't kill someone, only hurt them badly.

Nationwide, the police lose an officer about every two days in the line of duty. For the most part, they manage difficult people and difficult situations without loss of life. There are bad cops (oh yes) but these guys didn't intend to kill this guy, and I feel for them too.

This is a sad story all around.

The cops shouldn't have beat him like that.

Instead when he charged at them and grabbed one of them, they should've shot his ass. They used the nightsticks instead because they were trying NOT to have to kill him.

do cops use stun guns anymore?

or does it always call for a good ole fashion niggra beatin'?

Simple rule I have always followed.

If the bad guy uses his hands, I use a stick / or pepper spray

If the bad guy uses a knife I use a gun.

I do not get paid to be beat or killed.

Still cannot believe the cornor ruled it a homicide

zap that fucker

http://theknifeman.com/diagramdmabody.gif

Fletch are you talking about a stun gun ??

'Fletch are you talking about a stun gun ?? '

yeah, what would be better, a beating with metal sticks, or a few zaps to knock his ass out?

curious why its always gotta be a beating, okay first dozen or so swings, sure beat him down with the stick, then zap him.

Stun guns and tasers don't usually work well on PCP users. They used a taser on Rodney King and it didn't do anything.

how about a tranquilizer dart?

heh

First thing is most departments do not carry stun guns, they are expensive and normally you dont have any more room on your belt for them

Most SWAT units have them because they will have a certain person trained / equipped with one but not the normal patrol person.

Remember on a normal belt you have AT LEAST.
Gun / Extra Magazine / Radio / Handcuffs (at least 1 set) / ASP or Batton / knife or leatherman tool / spray.

So unless you want to carry the stun gun in the car and tell the guy.. Hold on one second let me go get my taser its not an option.

In a perfect world yes it would be worth a shot.. but would it work on a pcp user ??

coincidentally, i saw a cop with one in Seattle and asked him what it was. it was in a holster and looked like a pistol... he had his gun on one side and his taser on the other.

A-fucking men.

Fucking pansies sticking up for criminals. Kill more of the motherfuckers I say.

Yeah I'm pretty insensitive to people who attack police.

If you run, expect a bullet in the back.

JR.. the local sheriff here just got like 800 of them and that is what they are going to have to do also carry both.

SO..
What are you going to leave behind ?
Handcuffs ?? I dont think so.
Asap / Batton ?? Humm go directly to taser ?
Pepper spray ?? I would hope not.

Most people dont have a waist of 60 inches : )

Buff dont say anything !!

Maybe they should've just sprayed a canful of pepper spray in his eyes, and gotten out of his way as he couldn't see and ran straight into a brick wall.

i dont know. i was just commenting that i saw a cop. he was carrying a gun and a taser. one on each side.

i am not a cop and dont plan on getting shot by a cop, so i have not given this issue a lot of thought.

:unsure:

Always a lot of what if's !

Sometimes its hard to second guess when you are not involved.

I would never shoot a cat with BIG eyes : )



Last edited by Billy at Dec 4 2003, 12:17 AM

maybe they should have just shot him and then went to lunch.

maybe they should have just shot him and then went to lunch.[/b][/quote]
That would've been a whole lot easier. And I do agree, they were *trying* to NOT kill him when they had every right to shoot him on the spot. Now they're getting hung for it. It just isn't right.

I had to help deal with a 180 pound sailor on PCP along with my Shore Patrol partner and (ultimately) 4 San Diego police officers. Having been through that once, I would have shot him in a heartbeat. Tasers are NOT effective on whacked out folks; I don't think much is. The guy I dealt with was beaten every bit as much as the guy in the video seems to have been; every time we thought we had him under control, he started right back up.

The stupidity of activists like those in Cinnci is that they use every instance of police action against their community as an example of the problem that may exist. When they do that they lose the opportunity to make their case when it really does happen, and they give the morons on the other side - the ones who don't believe cops can possibly be wrong - plenty of ammunition to ridicule them.

I had a MD state trooper buddy years and years ago who used to tell me horror stories about the guys they'd meet up with on PCP. I know he had to shoot at least one, but I think he shot him in the leg.
This guy was no whimp either; nice muscular hunk of a man and a fantastic martial artists, and there would be skinny little 135-pound guys that he couldn't hold down. They get on that PCP and they just turn invincible.

AGREE
This is the only reason I could not contemplate living in the States...

:(

Am I the only one totally stunned that a coke addict managed to get up to 350 pounds? or maybe the coke slimmed him down from a rotund 425?

AGREE
This is the only reason I could not contemplate living in the States...

:([/b][/quote]
Think about this for a minute.

You're the cop trying to control this 350 pound guy who is resisting you and is seemingly impervious to pain and the non-lethal force you are applying. You've got time to stop and calculate the relationship of his body mass to potential health problems, and then determine the stress that you're applying to his body? Last time I checked police officers didn't check their human characteristics at the door - you get into a situation like that, the adreneline kicks in, and you're going to react to it no matter HOW MUCH training and teaching you've undergone.

If you have ever seen someone whacked out on PCP you'd realize what a silly statement that is. We're not talking about pot or [insert drug du jour] here - this shit makes normal people psychotic, and already psychotic people absofuckingloutely dangerous as hell.

Look, there are lots of folks in uniform that really should be on the other side of the cell doors. Could these guys have handled it differently? Maybe - but even I doubt it.

attack cops much?

I agree...

The fucking guy was attacking the cops..

I love how the TV news conveniently leaves that part out of the clips they show.

I was going to count the number of times the cops yelled "stay on the ground".. but I lost count at 15.

haha i was thinking the same thing.

i actually know few fat russians that went on a coke diet. they only got fatter cuz they thought they could eat more lol